2023 General NFL News Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Well, this is some bullshit. The Hunt family flexing. Guess it was too obvious. First KC and the NFL helped Hill stymie the KC prosecutor, who said he could not prove who broke his son’s arm. What a piece of shit outcome. A father who supposedly did not know who broke his son’s arm. And KC and the NFL condoned that. Now this? #Pathetic

 
Sleet said:
Well, this is some bullshit. The Hunt family flexing. Guess it was too obvious. First KC and the NFL helped Hill stymie the KC prosecutor, who said he could not prove who broke his son’s arm. What a piece of shit outcome. A father who supposedly did not know who broke his son’s arm. And KC and the NFL condoned that. Now this? #Pathetic

Click to expand...

I posted on here a couple of weeks ago that it looked like the Rice thing was being overblown and that the outcome was likely to be little more than somewhere in the region of 1 to 4 games suspension. That wasn't my expert legal opinion; it was reading what was being said by calm and sane voices among legal experts online. And those opinions weren't being offered by idiots mixing up ounces and grams, those who went off on flights of fancy adding in all manner of complicating factors to the incident none of which could be proven, or those projecting their own prejudices onto the case. By the looks of it, that's the way this is still playing out.

But here's a genuine question (I think from what you've said on here you work in the legal profession?) - even if the issue is more grave for Rice than that consensus opinion, why wouldn't he be at camp this week? As I understand it, the legal process is simply grinding on isn't it? Why would Rice not be able to continue with his employment while this legal process played out?

Incidentally, the Tyreek Hill case and the incident with Andy Reid's son are both despicable. I think it's a pretty long stretch to link Rice to either of them.
 
Welsh Raider said:
I posted on here a couple of weeks ago that it looked like the Rice thing was being overblown and that the outcome was likely to be little more than somewhere in the region of 1 to 4 games suspension. That wasn't my expert legal opinion; it was reading what was being said by calm and sane voices among legal experts online. And those opinions weren't being offered by idiots mixing up ounces and grams, those who went off on flights of fancy adding in all manner of complicating factors to the incident none of which could be proven, or those projecting their own prejudices onto the case. By the looks of it, that's the way this is still playing out.

But here's a genuine question (I think from what you've said on here you work in the legal profession?) - even if the issue is more grave for Rice than that consensus opinion, why wouldn't he be at camp this week? As I understand it, the legal process is simply grinding on isn't it? Why would Rice not be able to continue with his employment while this legal process played out?

Incidentally, the Tyreek Hill case and the incident with Andy Reid's son are both despicable. I think it's a pretty long stretch to link Rice to either of them.
Click to expand...
Florio hardest hit. Lol. Why wouldn’t he be at camp? 8 felony charges with another felony charge pending?

This is not a situation where he’s innocent until proven guilty. He has admitted he was driving.

There is video. It proves he was street racing (reportedly at 119 mph) and caused a multi-car accident with at least one reported serious bodily injury. It also proves he fled the scene of the accident.

Even without speculation regarding DUI, guns or more drugs than they reportedly found, he did not know how bad anyone was hurt in the accident, or whether babies, children or ederly were involved, etc. He disregarded the carnage and injuries he caused.

It was a despicable act. He played Russian roulette with other people’s lives. Sure it does not offend as much as child abuse or a DUI car accident where someone dies (Ruggs) or is in a coma with brain damage (Reid’s son). But what message is KC and the NFL sending here?

Neither KC nor NFL have to wait to issue a punishment. There is no issue as to his guilt.

I get why they are waiting. It is the offseason. He is an important player on a popular team, heck SB champs, with a very connected owner.

It is the wrong message. Getting kicked off the team would have likely happened to an UDFA back-up. It reportedly did happen to his SMU buddy. But it was not going to happen to a star who is likely not going to jail or even get home detention.

Paid leave of absence until the plea agreement is reached, followed by a suspension that tracks the severity of the pled crime, was a real option. It is what they easily could have done. It was the precedent when videos became a thing and started to publicly prove guilt before trials and the NFL needed a PR solution.

It appears that choose the weakest course of action. It appears they want the public to think it is okay—back to normal—no harm (death or coma), no foul.
 
Last edited:
Sleet said:
Well, this is some bullshit. The Hunt family flexing. Guess it was too obvious. First KC and the NFL helped Hill stymie the KC prosecutor, who said he could not prove who broke his son’s arm. What a piece of shit outcome. A father who supposedly did not know who broke his son’s arm. And KC and the NFL condoned that. Now this? #Pathetic

Click to expand...

Much like the other troubled Rice, Ray Rice I think this is going to blow up in his face. By trying so hard to give him a slap on the wrist it makes people look at it harder. When they got Godell to cut Rices suspension to two games it made people look harder at it and it ended his career. The Chiefs giving him 5 games right now would dead this issue.
 
Last edited:
Sleet said:
Florio hardest hit. Lol. Why wouldn’t he be at camp? 8 felony charges with another felony charge pending?

This is not a situation where he’s innocent until proven guilty. He has admitted he was driving.

There is video. It proves he was street racing (reportedly at 119 mph) and caused a multi-car accident with at least one reported serious bodily injury. It also proves he fled the scene of the accident.

Even without speculation regarding DUI, guns or more drugs than they reportedly found, he did not know how bad anyone was hurt in the accident, or whether babies, children or ederly were involved, etc. He disregarded the carnage and injuries he caused.

It was a despicable act. He played Russian roulette with other people’s lives. Sure it does not offend as much as child abuse or a DUI car accident where someone dies (Ruggs) or is in a coma with brain damage (Reid’s son). But what message is KC and the NFL sending here?

Neither KC nor NFL has to wait to issue a punishment. There is no issue as to his guilt.

I get why they are waiting. It is the offseason. He is an important player on a popular team, heck SB champs, with a very connected owner.

It is the wrong message. Getting kicked off the team would have likely happened to an UDFA back-up. It reportedly did happen to his SMU buddy. But it was not going to happen to a star who is likely not going to jail or even get home detention.

Paid leave of absence until the plea agreement is reached, followed by a suspension that tracks the severity of the pled crime, was a real option. It is what they easily could have done. It was the precedent when videos became a thing and started to publicly prove guilt before trials and the NFL needed a PR solution.

It appears that choose the weakest course of action. It appears they want the public to think it is okay—back to normal—no harm (death or coma), no foul.
Click to expand...
Well, I'd say one clear difference between Teddy Knox and Rice is that Knox is not employed by his college. I'd imagine a suspension to what is essentially an 'honorary' position on the college team is completely different to suspending someone from their place of work. And there's the agreement with the NFLPA to take into consideration too I'd imagine. So I'd imagine a comparison between the actions of SMU and the Chiefs isn't as straightforward as you imply.

As to the incident - he's admitted he was driving, which was his responsibility in law. But the case hasn't yet been heard has it? Hypothetically, he could be found completely innocent of all of the charges couldn't he? Which is why due process is in place. You judging it on the strength of your reaction doesn't replace that process.

I agree it was a despicable act. But not in the same ball-park as breaking a child's arm or driving drunk, causing brain damage for a child and then accepting a pardon from your Daddy's buddy, without ever showing any remorse.
 
1D4 said:
Much like the other troubled Rice, Ray Rice I think this is going to blow up in his face. By trying so hard to give him a slap on the wrist it makes people look at it harder. When they got Godell to cut Rices suspension to two games it made people look harder at it and it ended his career. The Chiefs giving him 5 games right now would dead this issue.
Click to expand...
So I just had a quick look at the timeline of the whole Ray Rice thing (bullets for Sleet!):
  • Assaulted his then-girlfriend on Feb 15th (2014)
  • He was indicted by grand jury of third-degree assault on March 27

  • Took part in all team activities until July.

  • NFL suspended him on July 25th for two games. Ravens vocal in supporting him ("not a big deal") and he was not suspended at that time.
  • Also in July, the authorities agreed to settle the case as Rice agreed to enter pre-trial counselling.
I don't know if the two events were connected; I assume so in some way but don't know.

  • NFL upped the suspension on Sept 14th, ostensibly because Rice had misrepresented the incident and more of the film came to light showing the incident in full (yeah right ... nothing to do with the backlash).
So, again, Rice continued to participate in team activities at this stage. I get you're saying doing it now will address any complaints, but I don't see any harm in waiting to the process has played out. And I'm saying that as someone who hates the Chiefs (and the NFL office).

I'm just saying that getting furious in April is pretty daft.
 
Welsh Raider said:
I posted on here a couple of weeks ago that it looked like the Rice thing was being overblown and that the outcome was likely to be little more than somewhere in the region of 1 to 4 games suspension. That wasn't my expert legal opinion; it was reading what was being said by calm and sane voices among legal experts online. And those opinions weren't being offered by idiots mixing up ounces and grams, those who went off on flights of fancy adding in all manner of complicating factors to the incident none of which could be proven, or those projecting their own prejudices onto the case. By the looks of it, that's the way this is still playing out.

But here's a genuine question (I think from what you've said on here you work in the legal profession?) - even if the issue is more grave for Rice than that consensus opinion, why wouldn't he be at camp this week? As I understand it, the legal process is simply grinding on isn't it? Why would Rice not be able to continue with his employment while this legal process played out?

Incidentally, the Tyreek Hill case and the incident with Andy Reid's son are both despicable. I think it's a pretty long stretch to link Rice to either of them.
Click to expand...

The Rice situation as it applies to him specifically isn't a big deal. I think there is some feeling that the organization itself should start feeling the heat of repeated incidents. I can't remember if a team has ever actually been sanctioned for player incidents for if Goodell just warned them back when the Bengals players were out of control. Either way, it's really just an optics thing for the Chiefs and I guess the league, but the average fan really doesn't care that much. Raider fan just wants blood. Compounding things is the most egregious incident (Tyreek) never actually resulted in charges. I'm content to just know that the Chiefs are a bunch of douche bags.
 
Chris_77 said:
The Rice situation as it applies to him specifically isn't a big deal. I think there is some feeling that the organization itself should start feeling the heat of repeated incidents. I can't remember if a team has ever actually been sanctioned for player incidents for if Goodell just warned them back when the Bengals players were out of control. Either way, it's really just an optics thing for the Chiefs and I guess the league, but the average fan really doesn't care that much. Raider fan just wants blood. Compounding things is the most egregious incident (Tyreek) never actually resulted in charges. I'm content to just know that the Chiefs are a bunch of douche bags.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'd agree. There's been plenty of incidents (including with Reid's sons, and with Mahomes' brother) that collectively don't show the organisation in a good light. I found myself wondering about this when the whole issue with Reid's son blew up again, and whether there is a tone and attitude being set by the organisation.
 
Welsh Raider said:
Yes, I'd agree. There's been plenty of incidents (including with Reid's sons, and with Mahomes' brother) that collectively don't show the organisation in a good light. I found myself wondering about this when the whole issue with Reid's son blew up again, and whether there is a tone and attitude being set by the organisation.
Click to expand...

It's kind of shitty to say but you really don't have to look further than the issues with Reid's sons to know that there are some underlying problems with discipline on his end, which undoubtably extends to the players in general.
 
Should be suspended indefinitely until they are able to sort it given the facts that we do know.

As for his actual legal issue, it blows my mind that he can flee that type of accident and not get incarcerated and it is being speculated he won't do time. Talk about two systems of justice, I assure you that would not be the case for the average person.
 
Welsh Raider said:
Well, I'd say one clear difference between Teddy Knox and Rice is that Knox is not employed by his college. I'd imagine a suspension to what is essentially an 'honorary' position on the college team is completely different to suspending someone from their place of work. And there's the agreement with the NFLPA to take into consideration too I'd imagine. So I'd imagine a comparison between the actions of SMU and the Chiefs isn't as straightforward as you imply.

As to the incident - he's admitted he was driving, which was his responsibility in law. But the case hasn't yet been heard has it? Hypothetically, he could be found completely innocent of all of the charges couldn't he? Which is why due process is in place. You judging it on the strength of your reaction doesn't replace that process.

I agree it was a despicable act. But not in the same ball-park as breaking a child's arm or driving drunk, causing brain damage for a child and then accepting a pardon from your Daddy's buddy, without ever showing any remorse.
Click to expand...
The NFL has already established a guilt by video rule. Video evidence is all the NFL needs to put a player on paid leave of absence. The NFL has declared (erroneously) that paid leave of absence is not a punishment but solely a PR tool. That is within its deal with the NFLPA.

As to guilt generally, Rice’s admission that he was driving is all the prosecutor needed. Now they are haggling over the proper (a) charge and (b) punishment. That depends, I suppose, on how fast he was driving and degree of recklessness and the extent of injuries, which might not have played out yet. But nothing stops KC and the NFL from following its own precedent.
 
Welsh Raider said:
So I just had a quick look at the timeline of the whole Ray Rice thing (bullets for Sleet!):
  • Assaulted his then-girlfriend on Feb 15th (2014)
  • He was indicted by grand jury of third-degree assault on March 27

  • Took part in all team activities until July.

  • NFL suspended him on July 25th for two games. Ravens vocal in supporting him ("not a big deal") and he was not suspended at that time.
  • Also in July, the authorities agreed to settle the case as Rice agreed to enter pre-trial counselling.
I don't know if the two events were connected; I assume so in some way but don't know.

  • NFL upped the suspension on Sept 14th, ostensibly because Rice had misrepresented the incident and more of the film came to light showing the incident in full (yeah right ... nothing to do with the backlash).
So, again, Rice continued to participate in team activities at this stage. I get you're saying doing it now will address any complaints, but I don't see any harm in waiting to the process has played out. And I'm saying that as someone who hates the Chiefs (and the NFL office).

I'm just saying that getting furious in April is pretty daft.
Click to expand...
The Ravens and NFL got hammered b/c of how poorly they handled that Rice. Thus new precedent was created.
 
Sleet said:
The NFL has already established a guilt by video rule. Video evidence is all the NFL needs to put a player on paid leave of absence. The NFL has declared (erroneously) that paid leave of absence is not a punishment but solely a PR tool. That is within its deal with the NFLPA.

As to guilt generally, Rice’s admission that he was driving is all the prosecutor needed. Now they are haggling over the proper (a) charge and (b) punishment. That depends, I suppose, on how fast he was driving and degree of recklessness and the extent of injuries, which might not have played out yet. But nothing stops KC and the NFL from following its own precedent.
Click to expand...
My point is, him driving the car is not the the incidents he's been charged over. Those have not yet been tested in court. And so by definition not proven. At the moment, all we know is he was driving at excessive speed. And other players have been busted for that and not faced any suspension or sanction from the NFL.

I don't understand your point about 'all the prosecutor needed'. All the published sources I've seen speak of next steps as 'arraignment - pleading - (and in the instance of a 'not guilty' plea, a case to test the charges.'

You are conflating charge and punishment. I can see how that works for a simple speeding offence (eg in the UK acknowledging you are the driver means you are immediately liable for the speeding fine and penalty points), but he's not been charged with speeding. He's been charged with aggravated assault and collision (x1) and collision and injury (x6). No speeding charges that I've seen and yet all we know thus far is that he was speeding.
 
Chris_77 said:
The Rice situation as it applies to him specifically isn't a big deal. I think there is some feeling that the organization itself should start feeling the heat of repeated incidents. I can't remember if a team has ever actually been sanctioned for player incidents for if Goodell just warned them back when the Bengals players were out of control. Either way, it's really just an optics thing for the Chiefs and I guess the league, but the average fan really doesn't care that much. Raider fan just wants blood. Compounding things is the most egregious incident (Tyreek) never actually resulted in charges. I'm content to just know that the Chiefs are a bunch of douche bags.
Click to expand...


They don't really receive a lot of heat for it though, so it doesn't matter at the end of the day. Fat Andy seems to just let his players do their thing, which I picked up on way back when the T.O. thing was going on in that Eagle locker room. Hugh Douglas and T.O. got into an actual fistfight, and T.O. was threatening to whoop McNabb's ass. Fat Andy just let it ride and kept coaching on Sundays. It's probably why most of his players like him.
 
Welsh Raider said:
My point is, him driving the car is not the the incidents he's been charged over. Those have not yet been tested in court. And so by definition not proven. At the moment, all we know is he was driving at excessive speed. And other players have been busted for that and not faced any suspension or sanction from the NFL.

I don't understand your point about 'all the prosecutor needed'. All the published sources I've seen speak of next steps as 'arraignment - pleading - (and in the instance of a 'not guilty' plea, a case to test the charges.'

You are conflating charge and punishment. I can see how that works for a simple speeding offence (eg in the UK acknowledging you are the driver means you are immediately liable for the speeding fine and penalty points), but he's not been charged with speeding. He's been charged with aggravated assault and collision (x1) and collision and injury (x6). No speeding charges that I've seen and yet all we know thus far is that he was speeding.
Click to expand...
You have just repackaged what I said with a different emphasis, and ignored the NFL and KC’s right to suspend him until this plays out. Rice is not going to trial, unless the prosecutor is demanding something entirely unreasonable, which I doubt given the Hunt family influence.
 
Sleet said:
You have just repackaged what I said with a different emphasis, and ignored the NFL and KC’s right to suspend him until this plays out. Rice is not going to trial, unless the prosecutor is demanding something entirely unreasonable, which I doubt given the Hunt family influence.
Click to expand...
So you accept there is a legal process ongoing then? Your previous post implied there was not ("Rice's admission ... is all the prosecutor needed").

And if there is a legal process ongoing, the NFL is not going to suspend him prior to its completion are they?

Incidentally, is any media or online entity calling for his suspension now? I don't think even Florio has, has he? And he normally comments on legal issues doesn't he?
 
Welsh Raider said:
And if there is a legal process ongoing, the NFL is not going to suspend him prior to its completion are they?
Click to expand...
They have set precedent they can/will do something before legal process is completed especially when there is something like video evidence and admission of guilt.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top