2023 General NFL News Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
So you accept there is a legal process ongoing then? Your previous post implied there was not ("Rice's admission ... is all the prosecutor needed").

And if there is a legal process ongoing, the NFL is not going to suspend him prior to its completion are they?

Incidentally, is any media or online entity calling for his suspension now? I don't think even Florio has, has he? And he normally comments on legal issues doesn't he?
Come on, man!

My post (to which you refer) plainly conveyed that the process had to play out (right after the part you quoted and took out of context). The prosecutor has all he needs to get a conviction. Prosecutors don’t bring charges unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt the crime occurred. It would be unethical for a prosecutor to bluff.

Do prosecutors always win? Heck, if you believe what you see on TV they bat about .500. lol. In reality, they win 90% of jury trials.

This case is not going to trial. What needs to play out is whether more charges are going to be brought and an agreed-upon punishment range to propose to the Judge, who will then decide the punishment.

Don’t confuse “suspend” (your word) with “paid leave of absence” (what I said). The NFL’s policy since 2014 in video felony cases has been to put the accused on paid leave of absence as a PR solution negotiated with the NFLPA. So, yes, that is well within the NFL and KC’s authority.
 
Come on, man!

My post (to which you refer) plainly conveyed that the process had to play out (right after the part you quoted and took out of context). The prosecutor has all he needs to get a conviction. Prosecutors don’t bring charges unless they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt the crime occurred. It would be unethical for a prosecutor to bluff.

Do prosecutors always win? Heck, if you believe what you see on TV they bat about .500. lol. In reality, they win 90% of jury trials.

This case is not going to trial. What needs to play out is whether more charges are going to be brought and an agreed-upon punishment range to propose to the Judge, who will then decide the punishment.

Don’t confuse “suspend” (your word) with “paid leave of absence” (what I said). The NFL’s policy since 2014 in video felony cases has been to put the accused on paid leave of absence as a PR solution negotiated with the NFLPA. So, yes, that is well within the NFL and KC’s authority.
My objection to your line after the one I quoted, which I tried to explain later on, is that they are not yet 'haggling over punishment.' He's not been found guilty of the charges. Because he's not been charged with speeding, which is the only thing he's acknowledged.

And I get what you're saying about that it's just the negotiation around punishment, but just because they are having that discussion, you cannot start with the premise (and more particularly the NFL can't assume) that he's been found guilty. The case is not going to trial because it's better to resolve cases like this beforehand, but it's simply wrong to say that 'charges brought' is the same as guilt itself. He's not yet guilty and any consideration has to start from that reality. He won't ever be 'guilty' until a court decides.

The NFL could ask him to take a paid leave of absence, you're right. As you say, it says so in the NFL's Personal Conduct Policy. But it's not as straightforward as that, is it?
I imagine the League is carrying out its own investigation. I assume that hasn't reported back yet.
The Policy says 'players found to have engaged in the following activities ...[including] conduct that poses a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person' are subject to discipline. That ought to cover it I imagine. But as I've said previously, he's not been found to have engaged in that behaviour yet. And the Policy goes on to say that a player 'may be placed on paid administrative leave.' Again, 'may be' is not mandatory, is it?

We don't know why the League hasn't completed its own investigation yet, or even why there are no calls from any independent sources demanding Rice be placed on paid administrative leave. But I'd imagine it's because the sensible thing is to wait. I'd have thought that the NFL's best bet is to sit tight and see how this plays out (and not because the Hunt's have them in their pocket but simply because it's the smart play). No-one other than sad bastards like us is even paying attention to football at the moment and so no-one much is focusing on Rice. There's no demand for action yet. So why bother with an action now, before the independent investigation is complete and before the legal case has been tested, when there's a remote possibility that in taking action now it might cause additional complications later?
 
My objection to your line after the one I quoted, which I tried to explain later on, is that they are not yet 'haggling over punishment.' He's not been found guilty of the charges. Because he's not been charged with speeding, which is the only thing he's acknowledged.

And I get what you're saying about that it's just the negotiation around punishment, but just because they are having that discussion, you cannot start with the premise (and more particularly the NFL can't assume) that he's been found guilty. The case is not going to trial because it's better to resolve cases like this beforehand, but it's simply wrong to say that 'charges brought' is the same as guilt itself. He's not yet guilty and any consideration has to start from that reality. He won't ever be 'guilty' until a court decides.

The NFL could ask him to take a paid leave of absence, you're right. As you say, it says so in the NFL's Personal Conduct Policy. But it's not as straightforward as that, is it?
I imagine the League is carrying out its own investigation. I assume that hasn't reported back yet.
The Policy says 'players found to have engaged in the following activities ...[including] conduct that poses a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person' are subject to discipline. That ought to cover it I imagine. But as I've said previously, he's not been found to have engaged in that behaviour yet. And the Policy goes on to say that a player 'may be placed on paid administrative leave.' Again, 'may be' is not mandatory, is it?

We don't know why the League hasn't completed its own investigation yet, or even why there are no calls from any independent sources demanding Rice be placed on paid administrative leave. But I'd imagine it's because the sensible thing is to wait. I'd have thought that the NFL's best bet is to sit tight and see how this plays out (and not because the Hunt's have them in their pocket but simply because it's the smart play). No-one other than sad bastards like us is even paying attention to football at the moment and so no-one much is focusing on Rice. There's no demand for action yet. So why bother with an action now, before the independent investigation is complete and before the legal case has been tested, when there's a remote possibility that in taking action now it might cause additional complications later?
Proving guilt in this case is a layup. Going to trial and losing results in a substantially greater sentence. You plead out to get a portion of the statutory minimum sentence tied to the charged crime(s). Go to trial and lose you end up getting a something far closer to the statutory maximum. Judges don’t like perps who don’t take responsibility.

Let me be clear: Everyone from the police to the DA are already treating Rice as a perp. Why? Because he is a perp. He did more than speeding. lol.

They’re negotiating whether the DA is going to add or reduce charges and what range of punishment will be recommended to the Judge. As for the NFL, I get why they are waiting. I don’t like it though.
 
Florio hardest hit. Lol. Why wouldn’t he be at camp? 8 felony charges with another felony charge pending?

This is not a situation where he’s innocent until proven guilty. He has admitted he was driving.

There is video. It proves he was street racing (reportedly at 119 mph) and caused a multi-car accident with at least one reported serious bodily injury. It also proves he fled the scene of the accident.

Even without speculation regarding DUI, guns or more drugs than they reportedly found, he did not know how bad anyone was hurt in the accident, or whether babies, children or ederly were involved, etc. He disregarded the carnage and injuries he caused.

It was a despicable act. He played Russian roulette with other people’s lives. Sure it does not offend as much as child abuse or a DUI car accident where someone dies (Ruggs) or is in a coma with brain damage (Reid’s son). But what message is KC and the NFL sending here?

Neither KC nor NFL have to wait to issue a punishment. There is no issue as to his guilt.

I get why they are waiting. It is the offseason. He is an important player on a popular team, heck SB champs, with a very connected owner.

It is the wrong message. Getting kicked off the team would have likely happened to an UDFA back-up. It reportedly did happen to his SMU buddy. But it was not going to happen to a star who is likely not going to jail or even get home detention.

Paid leave of absence until the plea agreement is reached, followed by a suspension that tracks the severity of the pled crime, was a real option. It is what they easily could have done. It was the precedent when videos became a thing and started to publicly prove guilt before trials and the NFL needed a PR solution.

It appears that choose the weakest course of action. It appears they want the public to think it is okay—back to normal—no harm (death or coma), no foul.

His SMU buddy was a special teams player. Of course, SMU was going to virtue signal by suspending him. They didn't lose anything of value.

If Ruggs merely crashed that night into a pole or didn't kill someone, he would still be on Raiders.

Elite talent gets a longer leash and greater tolerance.

Doing the right thing is hard and generally involves sacrifice. Hence why it is rarely done.

In time, this will blow over. NFL fans don't care. We will watch no matter what.
 
Proving guilt in this case is a layup. Going to trial and losing results in a substantially greater sentence. You plead out to get a portion of the statutory minimum sentence tied to the charged crime(s). Go to trial and lose you end up getting a something far closer to the statutory maximum. Judges don’t like perps who don’t take responsibility.

Let me be clear: Everyone from the police to the DA are already treating Rice as a perp. Why? Because he is a perp. He did more than speeding. lol.

They’re negotiating whether the DA is going to add or reduce charges and what range of punishment will be recommended to the Judge. As for the NFL, I get why they are waiting. I don’t like it though.
It may well be a layup, and I'd agree that's probably a useful term to use to describe the present position.But nobody puts the two points up on the scoreboard before the ball has actually gone through the hoop, but that's exactly what you are saying the NFL should do here.
As for the NFL, I get why they are waiting. I don’t like it though.
Finally! On that we can agree!
 
It may well be a layup, and I'd agree that's probably a useful term to use to describe the present position.But nobody puts the two points up on the scoreboard before the ball has actually gone through the hoop, but that's exactly what you are saying the NFL should do here.

Finally! On that we can agree!
Sadly, not true.

In nearly 30 years of practice, I watched one criminal proceeding in real time. Both the FTC and DOJ were investigating a client for consumer fraud. After we successfully avoided an action by the FTC for civil penalties (which is why I was involved), the DOJ did not let it go.

We thought we had dodged the bullet. The FTC only had to prove wrongdoing by a preponderance of evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt.

Out of the blue, the consumer fraud division of the DOJ served a search warrant. I took the warrant (my criminal defense partners are in DC and Chicago) and was at the client’s house in LA when it was searched by the feds and local police. The client and his family were not there—nothing you want to watch. The agent in charge and the police literally called and treated the client as a “perp” in my presence.

Two years go by—nothing. There is a 5 year statute of limitations. My criminal defense colleagues kept calling to check with the DOJ on status. Same response—still investigating.

Then they got a phone call from the DOJ, which said they had finished and were gonna file charges . . . for bank fraud. They tried to make a consumer fraud case but couldn’t. But in the investigation, they discovered payment process shenanigans by payment processors, which the DOJ claimed defrauded merchant (credit card) banks—violating agreements and industry standards governing risk tolerance.

Of course, no bank lost a penny. It was a way to back-door the DOJ’s consumer fraud charge neither the FTC nor DOJ could prove. If found guilty of bank fraud, at time of sentencing, the DOJ could introduce evidence of consumer fraud as the harm — the alleged purpose of the bank fraud. Without the merchant bank accounts, which allegedly would have closed but for the bank (risk tolerance) fraud, no further sales transactions occur and thus no consumer fraud. With the credit facility, the alleged consumer fraud occurs.

The feds acknowledged it was like catching Al Cabone for tax evasion. Rock meet hard place.

The client had given my law firm a $1 million retainer when the FTC and DOJ began by obtaining an ex parte TRO to prevent alleged consumer fraud. After beating back the FTC and 3 years of investigation by the DOJ, most of the retainer was still left, but now the client was facing trial and punishment.

If he lost, the punishment would have been a 5 to 30 year prison sentence. If he won, the client and his family are broke. The criminal defense team would have not only spent the rest of the retainer but also the rest of the client’s savings plus a second mortgage on his house.

For what? A 10% chance of jury nullification? The DOJ does not bring changes it can’t win. They know what they have to prove. They marshal the evidence, then give it to you. It took them 3 years but they had the documents—emails with payment processors and internally regarding payment processing trying to manage risk—charge backs and returns from consumers. The payment processors were aggregating risk and not disclosing it to the merchant banks and the emails showed knowledge and complicity.

The deal offered was to be first through the door and testify against the payment processors. In exchange, a 1 to 5 year prison sentence, which could mean probation.

The DOJ put its “two points up on the scoreboard before the ball [had] actually gone through the hoop.” They know when they got you. They know what deal they can offer where only an irrational person would go to trial. And even if they go to trial, they know they’ll win absent jury nullification. Then the defendant is facing a hanging judge at time of sentencing. And his family is broke.
 
Last edited:
so a stripper got in his car outside the strip club and is suing because he got his dick out? Do I have this right?
‘24 offseason:
  • Rice didn’t learn from Ruggs
  • Dak didn’t learn from Watson
  • Telescope didn’t __________
 
Sounds like his lawyers fucked up? Or maybe they didn't because they will get paid....
 
‘24 offseason:
  • Rice didn’t learn from Ruggs
  • Dak didn’t learn from Watson
  • Telescope didn’t __________
I can't put Dak and Watson in same boat. If a stripper is willing to leave with you and fuck around in your car then expectations are well beyond lap dance. Trying to slap your Masseuse with your dick is another matter though. I think some of those ones he was ordering up on Instagram were probably hookers looking for a payday and probably shouldn't count. Pulling that shit with the legit sports massage ones is dumb.
 
I can't put Dak and Watson in same boat. If a stripper is willing to leave with you and fuck around in your car then expectations are well beyond lap dance. Trying to slap your Masseuse with your dick is another matter though. I think some of those ones he was ordering up on Instagram were probably hookers looking for a payday and probably shouldn't count. Pulling that shit with the legit sports massage ones is dumb.

Both these dudes were/are getting extorted. It must suck to be able to get just about any girl you but then have to worry about getting sued from any one of them.
 
Both these dudes were/are getting extorted. It must suck to be able to get just about any girl you but then have to worry about getting sued from any one of them.
Leave the whores alone, their dummy's.
 
Dak will be looking for work after this year...most likely as a backup!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top