OTAs

gst8 said:
Key has literally been 270lbs and played at 255lbs his senior season.
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And he played like a “sloth,” actual verbiage used by Guenther. 13.3% SPARQ at 238 lbs is weak-ass-shit. However, apart from flying in too hot and not being able to finish, Key looked the part of an NFL pass-rusher (31 pressures). I’d prefer a pass-rush specialist than a sloth.
 
Sleet said:
Gruden sounded testy. I wonder if AB ducked this OTA to duck a pressor and questions about his “relationship” with Big Ben, which Big Ben has been repeatedly talking about of late.
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Big Ben is trying to save face at the moment. Why would he talk about it now when he had the end of last season and all the time in between to address this. Bell is gone, Brown is gone, and if the Stillers miss the post season it is going to be all on him. He's getting his excuses lined up...
 
gst8 said:
There’s a perceived difference in athleticism. Key was completely out of shape when he tested. And for the millionth time you can get bigger and more expensive with the right training.
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I wonder what he would test like if he was in shape?

I’m sure a few other draft junkies on here would love to see the “real” numbers. @007 @alteredst8 @raiderfreak7
 
Sleet said:
And he played like a “sloth,” actual verbiage used by Guenther. 13.3% SPARQ at 238 lbs is weak-ass-shit. However, apart from flying in too hot and not being able to finish, Key looked the part of an NFL pass-rusher (31 pressures). I’d prefer a pass-rush specialist than a sloth.
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I think you need to step back and view those measurements through a practical lens rather than as a draft season fanatic.

The only difference of any significance was the weight and 40 yard dash time and with the 40 time we're only talking about a fraction of a second difference. That's nothing in a practical sense and contrary to popular belief a heavier but more muscular person will usually perform better in speed and explosion drills. There's really no difference athletically between the two except work ethic.
 
PDX Raider said:
Gruden says he would like to see Arden Key “at 260 one day.” Said he’s working at it. Listed at 238.
Both Guenther and Gruden handling second-year DE with kid gloves after saying this past offseason was important for Key to get bigger, stronger.

^ Something seems off with Key. The one thing they told him is to bulk up, but that doesn't seem to have happened.
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Ted Hendricks was 6'7" and never weighed much over 235 until late in his career, and never played at 250. It didn't have any relationship to how strong he was. I recall a play in San Diego on a Monday night when Ted stayed home against a misdirection and faced Chuck Muncie (6'2" 225) with a full head of steam coming off the edge: Hendricks stopped him with a forearm to the shoulders and in the next motion threw him down.

There is a reason the award for the best linebacker in college football is named after him.

Key is bigger now than when he put up those insane numbers the year before he came out. Functional strength is a combination of physical strength, leverage and will. He doesn't have to get all three aligned to the level of Hendricks in today's NFL, he just has to learn all the subtle tools about hand fighting, deception and leverage, and get all he can from film and translate it to games.
 
gst8 said:
Key has literally been 270lbs and played at 255lbs his senior season.
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He was fat tho. Well, like skinny fat.

As comfortable as he looks standing up as a rusher, he doesn’t need to get to 260. His game is more Von Miller than Khalili Mack (no, he’s in neither ones stratosphere) but his “style” is definitely more finesse.

He might be more suited around 250. Either way. If he doesn’t produce at 238, or 270, fuck him. I think he has a better year tho. So close last year. I think he closes the deal 7-8 times in a more limited and suitable role.
 
Birdwell said:
Ted Hendricks was 6'7" and never weighed much over 235 until late in his career, and never played at 250. It didn't have any relationship to how strong he was. I recall a play in San Diego on a Monday night when Ted stayed home against a misdirection and faced Chuck Muncie (6'2" 225) with a full head of steam coming off the edge: Hendricks stopped him with a forearm to the shoulders and in the next motion threw him down.

There is a reason the award for the best linebacker in college football is named after him.

Key is bigger now than when he put up those insane numbers the year before he came out. Functional strength is a combination of physical strength, leverage and will. He doesn't have to get all three aligned to the level of Hendricks in today's NFL, he just has to learn all the subtle tools about hand fighting, deception and leverage, and get all he can from film and translate it to games.
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Let’s not compare Ted Hendericks to anybody remotely associated with the current Raiders roster. Silly.
 
Armyr8rfan said:
He was fat tho. Well, like skinny fat.

As comfortable as he looks standing up as a rusher, he doesn’t need to get to 260. His game is more Von Miller than Khalili Mack (no, he’s in neither ones stratosphere) but his “style” is definitely more finesse.

He might be more suited around 250. Either way. If he doesn’t produce at 238, or 270, fuck him. I think he has a better year tho. So close last year. I think he closes the deal 7-8 times in a more limited and suitable role.
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Yeah, I'm just bringing it up to point out that he can gain weight. Rather easily in fact.

Off season discussion fodder if you know what I mean.
 
CrossBones said:
Let’s not compare Ted Hendericks to anybody remotely associated with the current Raiders roster. Silly.
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It was a general point using one player who we'd all know as a specific example.

Key is a guy who plays stronger than he looks, and that's a function of things no one can measure. So long as he gets stronger, more flexible and becomes a serious pro, he'll produce well at whatever weight he plays at.

No, I don't expect Pro Bowls, much less HoF. Plenty of hella productive players in the range below that.
 
DonkeyKilla said:
or completely different eras of football
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Robert Mathis?
David Bass?
akbar gbaja biamila?

one out of 3 ain't bad...

If he can be an effective passrusher, we can use him...
 
007 said:
Key doesn’t play strong at all.
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I think you need to step back and view Key’s strength from @gst8’s practical perspective, where 75.5% SPARQ and 13.3% SPARQ are equivalents and Key’s a lazy fuck. :rolleyes:
 
Birdwell said:
It was a general point using one player who we'd all know as a specific example.

Key is a guy who plays stronger than he looks, and that's a function of things no one can measure. So long as he gets stronger, more flexible and becomes a serious pro, he'll produce well at whatever weight he plays at.

No, I don't expect Pro Bowls, much less HoF. Plenty of hella productive players in the range below that.
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OK

DonkeyKilla said:
or completely different eras of football
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OK
 
Sleet said:
I think you need to step back and view Key’s strength from @gst8’s practical perspective, where 75.5% SPARQ and 13.3% SPARQ are equivalents and Key’s a lazy fuck. :rolleyes:
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Can you actually comprehend the practical difference of a quarter of a second or do you just live in your little SPARQ world with zero context? Key's SPARQ is thrown completely off by his low weight. It's like factoring waste size in body fat percentage. You can have a big ass gut but as long as your waist is small you'll score fairly well. It's doesn't mean a thing without context.
 
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