COVID-19 Discussion

Yes they could. I don't disagree that it is a dick move but it wouldn't disrupt anything and has some potential risk and benefit.

It’s not new either. My daughter shared an apartment in SF with several foreign students and they all left months ago for this very reason. She had to move back home because of it.
 
For the record I think deporting students is a dick move.

As to the fact of the matter... it’s not a new rule. It’s a reminder of the agreement the students signed as a condition of obtaining the visa in the first place. It actually appears that they’ve relaxed it to allow them to take more than one class online but just not a full load.

It is not a new law, but the circumstances are very different from when it was before. In the past, there really was no reason for a person to be taking online classes in the US. Now there are plenty of very valid reasons for it.
 
Stuff like...


The "Plandemic" video

Mask causes you to inhale toxic amounts of carbon dioxide, and/or oxygen deprivation

Folks talking about the mask is "symbolic of silencing us/taking away our voice." (My personal favorite

6GKDG2D6MNBC5LVTOKASYUQRRQ.jpg


EZ_gXWVWsAAcA_H.jpg



Some of this stuff is just people trolling, right?

People love to troll, don’t they?
 
There is no sensible reason why they couldn't, but the law prohibits it.

If true I agree. I guess maybe they are trying to keep teaching positions from being outsourced? Not really sure there.
 
If true I agree. I guess maybe they are trying to keep teaching positions from being outsourced? Not really sure there.
This would be the most obvious one. I know Trump recently suspended a range of Visa programs.
 
Just kills me how this student visa thing is being misrepresented. They used to be limited to one online class and it’s being expanded to allow more to one.

“The Department of Homeland Security has announced its plan for temporary modifications to F-1 and M-1 nonimmigrant visa requirements for the fall 2020 semester. This will allow a mixture of both in-person and some online coursework to meet the requirements for nonimmigrant student status. This temporary accommodation provides greater flexibility for nonimmigrant students to continue their education in the United States, while also allowing for proper social distancing on open and operating campuses across America.“


This was the existing rule:

Students attending schools operating under normal in-person classes are bound by existing federal regulations. Eligible F students may take a maximum of one class or three credit hours online (see 8 CFR 214.2(f)(6)(i)(G)).


This is the biggest change:

Students attending schools adopting a hybrid model—that is, a mixture of online and in person classes—will be allowed to take more than one class or three credit hours online. These schools must certify to SEVP, through the Form I-20, “Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant Student Status,” that the program is not entirely online, that the student is not taking an entirely online course load for the fall 2020 semester, and that the student is taking the minimum number of online classes required to make normal progress in their degree program. The above exemptions do not apply to F-1 students in English language training programs or M-1 students, who are not permitted to enroll in any online courses (see 8 CFR 214.2(f)(6)(i)(G) and 8 CFR 214.2(m)(9)(v))).

So basically they relaxed the rules yet universities are blindsided and plan to sue.
 
Stuff like...


The "Plandemic" video

Mask causes you to inhale toxic amounts of carbon dioxide, and/or oxygen deprivation

Folks talking about the mask is "symbolic of silencing us/taking away our voice." (My personal favorite

6GKDG2D6MNBC5LVTOKASYUQRRQ.jpg


EZ_gXWVWsAAcA_H.jpg



Some of this stuff is just people trolling, right?


No, which is the sad part.
 
Just kills me how this student visa thing is being misrepresented. They used to be limited to one online class and it’s being expanded to allow more to one.

“The Department of Homeland Security has announced its plan for temporary modifications to F-1 and M-1 nonimmigrant visa requirements for the fall 2020 semester. This will allow a mixture of both in-person and some online coursework to meet the requirements for nonimmigrant student status. This temporary accommodation provides greater flexibility for nonimmigrant students to continue their education in the United States, while also allowing for proper social distancing on open and operating campuses across America.“


This was the existing rule:

Students attending schools operating under normal in-person classes are bound by existing federal regulations. Eligible F students may take a maximum of one class or three credit hours online (see 8 CFR 214.2(f)(6)(i)(G)).


This is the biggest change:

Students attending schools adopting a hybrid model—that is, a mixture of online and in person classes—will be allowed to take more than one class or three credit hours online. These schools must certify to SEVP, through the Form I-20, “Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant Student Status,” that the program is not entirely online, that the student is not taking an entirely online course load for the fall 2020 semester, and that the student is taking the minimum number of online classes required to make normal progress in their degree program. The above exemptions do not apply to F-1 students in English language training programs or M-1 students, who are not permitted to enroll in any online courses (see 8 CFR 214.2(f)(6)(i)(G) and 8 CFR 214.2(m)(9)(v))).

So basically they relaxed the rules yet universities are blindsided and plan to sue.

The rule was suspended in March because the pandemic forced classes to be closed. Classes, by nature, stick a larger number of people into very confined spaces for an extended period of time. Laws in most places make the types of classes previously held illegal. There is simply insufficient space and human resources to hold classes as before. The exemption remained in place until Monday with no updates despite universities continuously seeking guidance through the spring and summer. On Monday, universities were given 2 weeks to comply with the directive above.

Universities can be huge organizations with 50,000 students, hundreds of buildings, thousands of employees. Scheduling a football season or an airline schedule is childs play compared to scheduling a university class offering in normal times, and it is tenfold more difficult now. Many universities chose to operate in a fully online mode. This includes Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, Cal system. They decided that since 75% of instruction has to be done online anyway because of physical limitations due to space and distancing, it was better to do all online and to do it very well. It is similar to trying to field a basketball team and a football team simultaneously trying to do inline and in-person simultaneously. Now, in 2 weeks, they must redo a vast amount of things. They are right to sue.

Imagine changing MPG standards for vehicles and giving 3 months to comply.

And in the meantime, hospitals are filling across the south and west and the deaths are perking back up. Yes of course we need to inject 30 million college students packed closely together into this situation for absolutely no reason at all because we aren't afraid, just stupid.
 
Here is what is coming to a hospital near you soon ...

Hospitals also asked the state to waive a requirement that hospital administrators ensure a patient is not subject to abuse or neglect because if "hard choices must be made to save patients," the hospitals say they do not want those choices to provide grounds to allege a patient has been abused or neglected. The state did not approve that waiver request.

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Similarly, they want a state to waive requirements that patients not be discriminated against based on race, national origin, religion, gender, sexual orientation, age, disability, marital status, or diagnosis.

That's because hospitals may need to prioritize the allocation of scarce equipment, personnel and beds among COVID-19 patients and do not want the state to consider that discrimination. The state did not approve that waiver request, either.
 
The rule was suspended in March because the pandemic forced classes to be closed. Classes, by nature, stick a larger number of people into very confined spaces for an extended period of time. Laws in most places make the types of classes previously held illegal. There is simply insufficient space and human resources to hold classes as before. The exemption remained in place until Monday with no updates despite universities continuously seeking guidance through the spring and summer. On Monday, universities were given 2 weeks to comply with the directive above.

Universities can be huge organizations with 50,000 students, hundreds of buildings, thousands of employees. Scheduling a football season or an airline schedule is childs play compared to scheduling a university class offering in normal times, and it is tenfold more difficult now. Many universities chose to operate in a fully online mode. This includes Harvard, MIT, Berkeley, Cal system. They decided that since 75% of instruction has to be done online anyway because of physical limitations due to space and distancing, it was better to do all online and to do it very well. It is similar to trying to field a basketball team and a football team simultaneously trying to do inline and in-person simultaneously. Now, in 2 weeks, they must redo a vast amount of things. They are right to sue.

Imagine changing MPG standards for vehicles and giving 3 months to comply.

And in the meantime, hospitals are filling across the south and west and the deaths are perking back up. Yes of course we need to inject 30 million college students packed closely together into this situation for absolutely no reason at all because we aren't afraid, just stupid.

We’re talking about two different things. I’m talking about the obviously agenda driven coverage of it. The media couldn’t be honest if their collective lives depended on it.

I agree it sucks but it’s the agreement these students made to gain that visa in the first place. If the universities depended on the assumption that this waiver you mentioned would remain permanent and didn’t make contingency plans then they shoulder a big part of the blame. The pandemic has hit a lot of people unfairly and I feel for everyone. I actually knew those students that lived with my daughter and they were all great kids. At the same time you have been vocal on the side of making tough decisions. You just posted something about the looming lack of hospital capacity. This appears to be one of those tough decisions.
 
We’re talking about two different things. I’m talking about the obviously agenda driven coverage of it. The media couldn’t be honest if their collective lives depended on it.

I agree it sucks but it’s the agreement these students made to gain that visa in the first place. If the universities depended on the assumption that this waiver you mentioned would remain permanent and didn’t make contingency plans then they shoulder a big part of the blame. The pandemic has hit a lot of people unfairly and I feel for everyone. I actually knew those students that lived with my daughter and they were all great kids. At the same time you have been vocal on the side of making tough decisions. You just posted something about the looming lack of hospital capacity. This appears to be one of those tough decisions.

The overwhelming point is that there is no useful purpose to this decision.
 
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