2023 General NFL News Thread

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DonkeyKilla said:
Warner has a ring ad SB MVP. Won one and got there 2 more times. Those teams got there on his arm. He had a period of greatness. He belongs. Ice and Rivers can fuck off to the hall of pretty good.
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But let's be real. He had about four and a half good seasons as a starter with that doughnut hole in his career. I loved Kurt Warner's game, but that's what it is, and not to mention that that Ram offense was littered with Hall of Famers. If you're putting somebody in the HOF off that, sorry but Ice and Phillip are going in too.
 
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Raider Outlaw said:
But let's be real. He had about four and a half good seasons as a starter with that doughnut hole in his career. I loved Kurt Warner's game, but that's what it is, and not to mention that that Ram offense was littered with Hall of Famers. If you're putting somebody in the HOF off that, sorry but Ice and Phillip are going in too.
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I can take the criticism of the shortness of Warner's game to say he shouldn't be in as well but I can't go along with Ice and Rivers going in. They were never great.
 
DonkeyKilla said:
I can take the criticism of the shortness of Warner's game to say he shouldn't be in as well but I can't go along with Ice and Rivers going in. They were never great.
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Ice was. That MVP season he had is as good as any the last 25 years, and nobody would put that Falcon personnel on the same level as what Warner had in St. Louis. Basically, you're docking him because the Super Bowl killer snatched his ring from him like he did the other couple of times he's blown them. Phillip is just going to get in because he was good for a long time. He's basically Ben Roethlisberger if he didn't win his two rings.
 
Hypothetically (my dream) If we had Jeff Hosteiler a few years early and we had him instead of Jay Schroeder and we won a couple of SB and Bo had a SB MVP and got hurt afterwards. Bo Jackson and his short 4 year career would be in the HOF now. Popularity does play a big part and he was the most popular Athlete in the world around 89-90. Kurt Warner was a hot ticket on a huge wave so fair or not it gives him and edge over player with more steady solid careers.
 
I do get what you're saying, but you have to look at who they've already put in and how they compare to those guys. Troy Aikman is in with Hall of Famers at every position on offense, but he never had a 25-TD season in his career. Warner had four good years with a lot of bad in between the front and end of his career. Not to mention the other positions like Terrell Davis getting in for a couple of good seasons before he blew out his knee. Hell, Stafford is getting in if he puts together three or four more good years, let alone if he manages to win another Super Bowl at the end, and who has ever thought of him as one? Eli is getting in with his three or four good years and two rings. They opened the door for this. The question will simply be who were the best QBs of this era, and both of those guys tick that box.
 
1D4 said:
Hypothetically (my dream) If we had Jeff Hosteiler a few years early and we had him instead of Jay Schroeder and we won a couple of SB and Bo had a SB MVP and got hurt afterwards. Bo Jackson and his short 4 year career would be in the HOF now. Popularity does play a big part and he was the most popular Athlete in the world around 89-90. Kurt Warner was a hot ticket on a huge wave so fair or not it gives him and edge over player with more steady solid careers.
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Bo probably would have gotten in if he wasn't a part-time player. It's nostalgic thinking about him with us, but when you go back and actually look, you realize he barely played in the grand scheme of things.
 
Raider Outlaw said:
I do get what you're saying, but you have to look at who they've already put in and how they compare to those guys. Troy Aikman is in with Hall of Famers at every position on offense, but he never had a 25-TD season in his career. Warner had four good years with a lot of bad in between the front and end of his career. Not to mention the other positions like Terrell Davis getting in for a couple of good seasons before he blew out his knee. Hell, Stafford is getting in if he puts together three or four more good years, let alone if he manages to win another Super Bowl at the end, and who has ever thought of him as one? Eli is getting in with his three or four good years and two rings. They opened the door for this. The question will simply be who were the best QBs of this era, and both of those guys tick that box.
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They don't though. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Manning are same era and tick the box.
You are making good arguments for guys that got in and shouldn't have. If that's the standard then the hall is a joke especially since Cliff isn't in.
 
DonkeyKilla said:
They don't though. Brady, Brees, Rodgers, and Manning are same era and tick the box.
You are making good arguments for guys that got in and shouldn't have. If that's the standard then the hall is a joke especially since Cliff isn't in.
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That's just your bias. If you ask people in the league and players on other teams, those do. Ice had the freaking Falcons on top of the NFC when Aaron Rodgers was in his prime and Brees was in the same division. Like what are you arguing here? In the NFC, it was Rodgers, Brees, Russ, Cam, Eli, and him in the early 2010s, and he hadn't even played his best football yet. Are you going to argue the amazing Falcon roster made him look good. On the other hand, I can definitely make that case for Russ who is getting in, and he was better than Eli in every way except Eli won those Super Bowls, and he's getting in. Not to mention Cam is probably getting in too, and he's better than him.

I'm not making a case for anything. I'm just saying that's how it's seen. You can't say QB is the most important position in football, arguably in sports, and then turn around and say sustained excellence isn't good enough just because you didn't win a championship. Ice's MVP season is statistically one of the greatest since the 1983 rule changes, and then he has a lot of other very good ones like that 35/7 season just a couple of years after that. I personally wouldn't put Phillip in, but he's getting in too.
 
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Raider Outlaw said:
That's just your bias. If you ask people in the league and players on other teams, those do. Ice had the freaking Falcons on top of the NFC when Aaron Rodgers was in his prime and Brees was in the same division. Like what are you arguing here? In the NFC, it was Rodgers, Brees, Russ, Cam, Eli, and him in the early 2010s, and he hadn't even played his best football yet. Are you going to argue the amazing Falcon roster made him look good. On the other hand, I can definitely make that case for Russ who is getting in, and he was better than Eli in every way except Eli won those Super Bowls, and he's getting in. Not to mention Cam is probably getting in too, and he's better than him.

I'm not making a case for anything. I'm just saying that's how it's seen. You can't say QB is the most important position in football, arguably in sports, and then turn around and say sustained excellence isn't good enough just because you didn't win a championship. Ice's MVP season is statistically one of the greatest since the 1983 rule changes, and then he has a lot of other very good ones like that 35/7 season just a couple of years after that. I personally wouldn't put Phillip in, but he's getting in too.
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Russ's latest flameout in Den and if he has a shit season in Pitt could keep him out. Depends who people want to give the Hawks success to - him or Pete.
 
Langlier said:
Russ's latest flameout in Den and if he has a shit season in Pitt could keep him out. Depends who people want to give the Hawks success to - him or Pete.
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I doubt it. The whole thing about winning as much as Manning to start a career already has him in imo. The Eli thing is big in these other guys getting in too. He's going in without a doubt, so how can you hold those superior guys out just because they didn't win a championship, especially Ice when his coach's incompetence has cost his squad a couple of other championships since then.
 
Think Wilson is likely in.

If Carroll doesn't brain fart on the goal line against NE he'd have 2 rings and be a lock for the HOF.
 
Crossbones said:
Difference being is the Wilson is a self centered little prick who wishes he was born white.
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agreed. how i view the two players is completely different. Warner was a gutty technican who threw the ball all over the field and was a solid leader. Wilson was run around for 3 minutes and chuck it deep who had a stellar D and was only good when the weapons around him were. Warners little run with the giants and cards showed me he was good without the team/coach. Russ hasn't shown that.
 
Langlier said:
agreed. how i view the two players is completely different. Warner was a gutty technican who threw the ball all over the field and was a solid leader. Wilson was run around for 3 minutes and chuck it deep who had a stellar D and was only good when the weapons around him were. Warners little run with the giants and cards showed me he was good without the team/coach. Russ hasn't shown that.
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Warner was terrible in NY and only had two good seasons in Arizona. More like people are romanticizing his actual career maybe because he played for a dumpster fire organization. I even remembered it wrong, and then I went and looked it up. His last couple of years here were good, and his start in St. Louis, which was about three years, was good. That's it.
 
Raider Outlaw said:
Warner was terrible in NY and only had two good seasons in Arizona. More like people are romanticizing his actual career maybe because he played for a dumpster fire organization. I even remembered it wrong, and then I went and looked it up. His last couple of years here were good, and his start in St. Louis, which was about three years, was good. That's it.
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His post broken finger in St Lou was bad.

After that he played as the "stand in" for 1st round picks with mixed success. NY was a dumpster fire with or without him. AZ similar. His health and a "quick pulling" for first round picks limited his effectiveness.

3 Great seasons, 3 good ones, and a bunch of health shortened ones.
 
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