Start of OTA

If he’s fallen off the cliff, he’s fallen off a cliff. That does not mean he has “something to prove.” To me, MEJ has something to prove. He was drafted in the 2nd round and is in a contract year. Carr, in this prime, played poorly last year; he has something to prove. Neither Lynch nor Jordy has anything to prove. They have had great careers regardless of how they play next year. Jordy’s earned more respect than shown by this BR punk.

Sure it does. He has to prove that his stats when Rodgers went out were due to the back-up QB and not him. Like it or not last year was a down year. Some folks will point to his age as the reason and others will point to the back-up QB. He is also having to prove that GB made a mistake in letting him go.

There are different ways in which a player 'has something to prove'. For a younger guy, he's trying to prove he was worth a high draft choice. For an aging vet like Nelson he has to prove he still has some gas in the tank.
 
Okay, I get Donald, Brady, and even J. Jones and Brown. But Kuechly and Gronkowski, who are regularly injured? Even if healthy I wouldn’t rate a MLB and TE above Mack and Von Miller, the two best edge players. :nono:
Agreed. When starting a team, I wouldn't pick Gronkowski or Kuechly over Mack or Miller
 
Sure it does. He has to prove that his stats when Rodgers went out were due to the back-up QB and not him. Like it or not last year was a down year. Some folks will point to his age as the reason and others will point to the back-up QB. He is also having to prove that GB made a mistake in letting him go.

There are different ways in which a player 'has something to prove'. For a younger guy, he's trying to prove he was worth a high draft choice. For an aging vet like Nelson he has to prove he still has some gas in the tank.
Okay, your logic is fine, but I disagree with your apparent agreement and/or support that, of all the players on our roster, Jordy has the “most to prove.” To me, if you sign an aging vet, it’s on the GM/HC, not the player, to have a good year, far moreso than a player in this prime (Carr, Cooper, Bryant, MEJ) or a young, relatively high draft choice (Conley, Joseph, Obi, Vanderdoes). Jordy is way down on my list.

BR published a punk ass article that Jordy was our worst offseason move, now doubled downs that Jordy has the most to prove. He’s wrong twice.

Seems to me he has an odd fixation about Jordy replacing Crabby, when, on paper, it seems like a smart or at least a fair move. Is it really that much to prove to be as good as Crabby was last year (not too mention dealing with Crabby’s antics). No, it’s not.
 
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Jordy Nelson is likely to have a big year. Carr is not Rodgers, but who were the other receivers in Green Bay?

With Cooper and Bryant having the speed to beat anyone, Nelson is going to have more room than he ever had in the Packer O. His hands and route running are his strongest assets, and losing a bit of speed -- if he has -- won't hurt production any.
 
Jordy Nelson is likely to have a big year. Carr is not Rodgers, but who were the other receivers in Green Bay?

With Cooper and Bryant having the speed to beat anyone, Nelson is going to have more room than he ever had in the Packer O. His hands and route running are his strongest assets, and losing a bit of speed -- if he has -- won't hurt production any.
I think what might be overlooked a littleis Jordy will bond with Carr. That friendship in a team atmosphere means something. I don’t think the relationship with Crabs was good last year. He’s getting a white Christian blanket and I think that had something to do with the decision to bring him in.
 
From the Athletic

The A to Z of Raiders’ offseason work, with one minicamp to go before training camp

Miller_USATSI_10823514-1024x691.jpg

By Vic Tafur Jun 8, 2018
The Raiders have a three-day minicamp next week, concluding their offseason program of workouts and organized team activities. Players got a crash course in the new staff’s offensive and defensive systems, and got to know all 39 free agents and rookies signed.

(And yes, it’s cool to call someone by his jersey number for weeks, maybe even a month.)

What did coach Jon Gruden and his staff learn? What did we learn, in the one day a week reporters were able to watch?

Here is the A to Z of the OTAs:

Arden Key: Some people (cough) thought the Raiders might have reached with their top four draft picks this spring — offensive tackles Kolton Miller and Brandon Parker and defensive linemen P.J. Hall and Key. Key had some off-field issues at LSU, but it’s safe to say that Gruden doesn’t see him as being any riskier than the Raiders’ underwhelming draft picks from the last three years.

So far, Key has looked as if he will be the team’s No. 3 pass rusher behind Khalil Mack and Bruce Irvin. He is built like a young Aldon Smith and is very bendy.

BeastMode: We have covered this plenty, but Marshawn Lynch could be sharing time with free-agent and former Buccaneers running back Doug Martin. They split first-team reps on Tuesday, as Martin, 29, has shown some fresh legs after two down years.

Carr: Derek Carr has looked sharp and has some new toys to play with, in Jordy Nelson and Martavis Bryant, a deep threat he’s never had with the Raiders. Greg Olson is back after being the offensive coordinator in Carr’s rookie season, and has seen a lot of growth.

“Probably in the maturity really, more than anything,” Olson said. “Certainly, physically he’s matured in the three years that I was gone. Also, I just think his knowledge of the game, he’s taken that to a new level in my opinion. His knowledge of defensive schemes. Understanding how to attack different schemes that he’s seeing in the passing game and also understanding protection phases.”

Dance moves: MC Hammer came out to Wednesday’s session, hitting the team with his positive energy before practice and serving as the deejay during it. Afterward, he offered dance tips. Hammer said the atmosphere was “electric” and that Gruden “is going to take us back to where we were.”

Eddy Pineiro: The undrafted rookie from Florida took all of the field goal attempts in Tuesday’s session while Giorgio Tavecchio, last year’s kicker, was merely a spectator. Gruden is very fired up about Pineiro’s leg strength and accuracy.

Fadol Brown: The 6-foot-4, 285-pound defensive end is just the right size for Paul Guenther’s scheme up front, and the Ole Miss product has been one of the biggest surprises this offseason. But not to Guenther. He watched practice film from last year and said the practice-squad player’s effort always stood out.

Gucci: Former Giants receiver Dwayne Harris apparently wears it head to toe. He has some juice in the return game and will need to beat out Ryan Switzer and/or Seth Roberts to be able to buy the high-end designer’s line next year.

Hurst and Hall: Rookies Maurice Hurst and P.J. Hall will ideally give the Raiders something they sorely lacked last season: an interior pass rush.

Hurst, arguably a first-round talent, fell to the fifth round due to a heart condition and Guenther said he couldn’t keep quiet as the second round became the third and the fourth.

“I was saying, ‘Draft him, right here!’” Guenther said. “When you look at these players in the draft, you have an eye for what you’re looking for. … When you watch him play at Michigan, he had certain traits for a three-technique in our defense.

“When he started to slide and he was there for us to pick in the fifth round, I couldn’t believe it, really. He has great (push). The three-technique is the penetrator of our defense. He does a great job with that.”

There will obviously be a learning curve:

“He’s going to have to learn big man’s game a little bit,” Guenther said, “where you don’t get the double teams as much in college. You’re going to get a lot more of that in the NFL. Then obviously in the pass rush. He’s slippery in the pass rush. He has good side to side movement. He’s a powerful guy.”

Instant reaction: Left tackle Donald Penn left an angry phone message for Gruden the night that the Raiders drafted Miller and Parker in the first and third round. He and Gruden have laughed about it since, and Penn is working hard to come back from a gruesome foot injury and at least delay Miller’s takeover of his spot by a year.

Jordy Nelson: Strength and conditioning coach Tom Shaw said the former Packers receiver is in great shape, and it’s safe to say that Nelson is more hands-on than Michael Crabtree when it comes to meetings and dealing with younger receivers.

“He’ll just be like, ‘What if we did the route like this or like that?’” Carr said. “Jordy is very detailed. He wants to do everything exactly how you want it done. I see why Aaron (Rodgers) loved throwing him the ball. He knows if you’re comfortable, you’ll throw it to them. …

“You just see when you add a guy like that, it just trickles down throughout the whole room of guys. Just their study habits. You see Jordy off to the side when another group is in, he is probably just telling somebody something about a route or a technique or a coverage.”

Kolton Miller: I tweeted out that the future left tackle took a couple of snaps at right tackle on Wednesday, and some thought that meant a departure from Gruden’s earlier comments that Miller would focus on practicing on the left side. I wouldn’t put too much stock into the two snaps, as he was likely just getting his feet wet. Parker was drafted in the third round to start at right tackle and that is still the early plan.

Lee: Marquel Lee has surprised Guenther a little bit, and the second-year linebacker may carve out a role for himself on running downs. As of right now, veterans Tahir Whitehead, Derrick Johnson and Emmanuel Lamur are the three starting linebackers. Second-year player Nicholas Morrow could also factor in on passing downs.

Mack: “Return of the Mack, Return of the Mack …” Sorry, no, don’t play the classic Mark Morrison jam quite yet. Khalil Mack is still not reporting, as he is waiting for his big contract extension. The defensive end is surely in great shape, and will be ready to jump in when he finally hits the facility (or Napa, for training camp). Guenther is not too concerned about it.

“Well, he’s going to have a lot of catching up to do,” Guenther said. “We’re going to have to have a plan for that for sure. Really, I’m really concerned about the guys that are here now working. These guys have been busting their tails every day.”

Mack could be fined up to $84,000 for missing next week’s minicamp.

Nelson: Raiders safety Reggie Nelson will be a big part of the Raiders defense under his old coordinator Guenther. He is also excited about last year’s No. 1 pick, cornerback Gareon Conley.

“Oh man, I’m happy to see Conley out there running around,” Nelson said. “A player of his caliber — long, just like (Rashaan) Melvin — he’s showing why he was the first-round pick. I think there’s a high standard out there for him and he’s holding that up. I think Conley is doing a great job right now doing what the coaches ask him to do.”

Obi Melifonwu: The second-year safety took an inside football from Gruden last month about not being close to being ready to play, after injuries last year. But he has started participating in team drills the last two weeks and a Raiders player or official actually had something nice to say about him.

“I think Obi is working out all of his kinks and stuff right now,” Nelson said. “I’ve always been a fan of Obi, his size and how athletic he is and what he brings to the table when he’s healthy and stuff. So, I just can’t wait to see more out of Obi.

“He’s flying around, doing a good job competing like everyone else. I think Obi is going to be one of those shocking (us), because I like him. He’s a great athletic guy, tall, you know, just his body build period. Only he can stand in his way, to be honest with you.”

cont...
 
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Pads: The players aren’t wearing any yet, so just go ahead and pour salt over this entire story.

Quarterbacks not named Carr: Connor Cook started off getting the No. 2 reps, as Gruden wanted to get him as many chances as possible early on to make a run at EJ Manuel for the backup job. But the third-year quarterback is already back to third in line and has never really showed why Cowboys owner Jerry Jones wanted him over Dak Prescott (only for Reggie McKenzie to trade up and snatch him). Newcomer Christian Hackenberg is just not going to get enough reps to be a factor or threat to anyone.

Rashaan Melvin the vagabond: The 28-year-old starting cornerback is well versed in picking up new defenses.

“This is my fifth team,” he said. “For me, it’s an advantage. To be able to go to different teams and learn a different system over time. I’ve been a part of a system like this before. It takes time, but, for me, being a part of other systems has prepared me for this. …

“Take as many notes as possible. Ask questions.”

Slot receivers: The Raiders will have a lot of them, as Gruden is making sure every receiver can play at every spot. I have always thought Amari Cooper should line up primarily inside, and while he recently said, “Yeah, I love the slot,” Cooper said defenses will have to adjust to where he lines up every play.

Gruden’s “doing a good job of moving us all around right now,” Cooper said. “We have something for everything. Every defensive look, we can audible to something to get in the right play for any defense.”

Tank Carradine: What a great name. And the former 49ers defensive lineman has been a great fit, too.

“He’s playing base end on first or second down,” with Mack absent, Guenther said. “He’s moving inside in the pass rush. He’s real smart. He knows what to do. He’s understanding the defense. He’s a strong son of a gun in there. He’s really going to help us out a lot in there.”

U: As in Raiders U. Gruden let players trade in an OTA session Thursday for a chance to coach local high school players in a 7-on-7 passing tournament.

“We heard last week that Santa might come and give us a day off if we had some good OTA days,” running back Jalen Richard told reporters.

The Dublin High School team, coached by linebacker Kyle Wilber, beat Lynch’s Kennedy-Richmond team to win the championship.

Vulgarity: Carr is cool with it. Well, not really but at least as far as outsiders’ concerns that he wouldn’t be able to handle Gruden’s tough coaching.

“Just because they haven’t heard me say the ‘F’ word before, they just assume that I can’t handle hearing it,” Carr said. “It’s just one of those things that we had a laugh at it, but went in one ear, out the other because I’m not going to lie, I didn’t even know what month it was we’ve been working so hard and so many hours. …

“When he gets after me, I probably deserve it. Secondly, I love it because I know that all he wants to do is get the best out of me.”

Let’s revisit this in the fall. Because Carr and his teammates won’t really see “Chucky” come out until the games are real.

Worley: Former Eagles cornerback Daryl Worley might yet be suspended by the league for being found in April passed out intoxicated inside a vehicle blocking a highway … with a firearm … and then tased during the 6 a.m. arrest after he allegedly became combative toward police. But the Raiders have him plugged in as a backup cornerback and he had an interception on Tuesday.

X marks the spot: Some players don’t get the benefit of the doubt from a new staff and are immediately in danger of losing their roster spots. Besides Melifonwu, returning defensive lineman Mario Edwards Jr., end-turned-linebacker James Cowser and running back DeAndre Washington are all encouraged to have great training camps.

Yelling: Special teams coach Rich Bisaccia might be louder than Gruden. Fullback Keith Smith was with Bisaccia in Dallas last season.

“I think their coaching styles are really intense because they care about what they’re doing and they care about their players,” Smith said. “There are a lot of things that the NFL can lack at times because it’s such a business. Coaches sometimes can’t really break that barrier of treating you like a piece of meat in the business.

“That’s definitely one thing that Coach Gruden and Bisaccia really tap into, that interpersonal relationship. While he’s yelling at you and getting on you 24/7, that’s his way of showing that he loves you and he sees the potential in you to be a great football player. If he’s not yelling at you, then you know something’s wrong, like he doesn’t really believe in you. Their coaching styles are about how genuine they love the game.”

Zeal: (There aren’t a lot of “Z” words, people.) The coaches’ enthusiasm and hands-on approach has helped the players buy in immediately, after last year’s 6-10 train-wreck of a season under Jack Del Rio and his staff.

Gruden “talks shit like I talk shit, so we get along,” Irvin said. “We’ve got a great relationship. He speaks his mind, I speak my mind. I come to work, he comes to work. You couldn’t ask to work with a (better) person like that. A guy who is football, football, football. That’s all it’s about — winning and football. That’s the type of coach you want in the building.”
 
aka: The guy whose production didn't swandive without the benefit of the league's most precise passer.

He's pretty good. Better than Cooper and Bryant have been of late.
Meh, I'm chalking Nelson's decline last year to Hundley latching on to his own guy. Rodgers and Nelson had some sort of connection that Hundley just didn't. It happens sometimes. I predict that Nelson's going to have a very good year. I think he's going to lead the team in catches. And fuck Crabtree in his puckered starfish. That fucking prick took himself outta games, dropped a dickload of passes and was by most accounts, a club house cancer. Not to mention he's been called out publicly by three different defensive backs. I'm glad that piece of shit is gone.
 
Where did Fadol Brown come from? I wonder if he makes the team?
 
Where did Fadol Brown come from? I wonder if he makes the team?

he's been the early "talk of camp" from the lower end of the roster. He could possibly let us move MEJ to a needy team and get something back if he keeps it up. I'm glad some of the new players and "old" new players are buying in and stepping up.
 
Would be nice to get some production from Lee

Lee: Marquel Lee has surprised Guenther a little bit, and the second-year linebacker may carve out a role for himself on running downs. As of right now, veterans Tahir Whitehead, Derrick Johnson and Emmanuel Lamur are the three starting linebackers. Second-year player Nicholas Morrow could also factor in on passing downs.
 
he's been the early "talk of camp" from the lower end of the roster. He could possibly let us move MEJ to a needy team and get something back if he keeps it up. I'm glad some of the new players and "old" new players are buying in and stepping up.
So tired of MEJ. Would not be sad if Raiders moved him
 
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From the Athletic

The A to Z of Raiders’ offseason work, with one minicamp to go before training camp

Miller_USATSI_10823514-1024x691.jpg

By Vic Tafur Jun 8, 2018
The Raiders have a three-day minicamp next week, concluding their offseason program of workouts and organized team activities. Players got a crash course in the new staff’s offensive and defensive systems, and got to know all 39 free agents and rookies signed.

(And yes, it’s cool to call someone by his jersey number for weeks, maybe even a month.)

What did coach Jon Gruden and his staff learn? What did we learn, in the one day a week reporters were able to watch?

Here is the A to Z of the OTAs:

Arden Key: Some people (cough) thought the Raiders might have reached with their top four draft picks this spring — offensive tackles Kolton Miller and Brandon Parker and defensive linemen P.J. Hall and Key. Key had some off-field issues at LSU, but it’s safe to say that Gruden doesn’t see him as being any riskier than the Raiders’ underwhelming draft picks from the last three years.

So far, Key has looked as if he will be the team’s No. 3 pass rusher behind Khalil Mack and Bruce Irvin. He is built like a young Aldon Smith and is very bendy.

BeastMode: We have covered this plenty, but Marshawn Lynch could be sharing time with free-agent and former Buccaneers running back Doug Martin. They split first-team reps on Tuesday, as Martin, 29, has shown some fresh legs after two down years.

Carr: Derek Carr has looked sharp and has some new toys to play with, in Jordy Nelson and Martavis Bryant, a deep threat he’s never had with the Raiders. Greg Olson is back after being the offensive coordinator in Carr’s rookie season, and has seen a lot of growth.

“Probably in the maturity really, more than anything,” Olson said. “Certainly, physically he’s matured in the three years that I was gone. Also, I just think his knowledge of the game, he’s taken that to a new level in my opinion. His knowledge of defensive schemes. Understanding how to attack different schemes that he’s seeing in the passing game and also understanding protection phases.”

Dance moves: MC Hammer came out to Wednesday’s session, hitting the team with his positive energy before practice and serving as the deejay during it. Afterward, he offered dance tips. Hammer said the atmosphere was “electric” and that Gruden “is going to take us back to where we were.”

Eddy Pineiro: The undrafted rookie from Florida took all of the field goal attempts in Tuesday’s session while Giorgio Tavecchio, last year’s kicker, was merely a spectator. Gruden is very fired up about Pineiro’s leg strength and accuracy.

Fadol Brown: The 6-foot-4, 285-pound defensive end is just the right size for Paul Guenther’s scheme up front, and the Ole Miss product has been one of the biggest surprises this offseason. But not to Guenther. He watched practice film from last year and said the practice-squad player’s effort always stood out.

Gucci: Former Giants receiver Dwayne Harris apparently wears it head to toe. He has some juice in the return game and will need to beat out Ryan Switzer and/or Seth Roberts to be able to buy the high-end designer’s line next year.

Hurst and Hall: Rookies Maurice Hurst and P.J. Hall will ideally give the Raiders something they sorely lacked last season: an interior pass rush.

Hurst, arguably a first-round talent, fell to the fifth round due to a heart condition and Guenther said he couldn’t keep quiet as the second round became the third and the fourth.

“I was saying, ‘Draft him, right here!’” Guenther said. “When you look at these players in the draft, you have an eye for what you’re looking for. … When you watch him play at Michigan, he had certain traits for a three-technique in our defense.

“When he started to slide and he was there for us to pick in the fifth round, I couldn’t believe it, really. He has great (push). The three-technique is the penetrator of our defense. He does a great job with that.”

There will obviously be a learning curve:

“He’s going to have to learn big man’s game a little bit,” Guenther said, “where you don’t get the double teams as much in college. You’re going to get a lot more of that in the NFL. Then obviously in the pass rush. He’s slippery in the pass rush. He has good side to side movement. He’s a powerful guy.”

Instant reaction: Left tackle Donald Penn left an angry phone message for Gruden the night that the Raiders drafted Miller and Parker in the first and third round. He and Gruden have laughed about it since, and Penn is working hard to come back from a gruesome foot injury and at least delay Miller’s takeover of his spot by a year.

Jordy Nelson: Strength and conditioning coach Tom Shaw said the former Packers receiver is in great shape, and it’s safe to say that Nelson is more hands-on than Michael Crabtree when it comes to meetings and dealing with younger receivers.

“He’ll just be like, ‘What if we did the route like this or like that?’” Carr said. “Jordy is very detailed. He wants to do everything exactly how you want it done. I see why Aaron (Rodgers) loved throwing him the ball. He knows if you’re comfortable, you’ll throw it to them. …

“You just see when you add a guy like that, it just trickles down throughout the whole room of guys. Just their study habits. You see Jordy off to the side when another group is in, he is probably just telling somebody something about a route or a technique or a coverage.”

Kolton Miller: I tweeted out that the future left tackle took a couple of snaps at right tackle on Wednesday, and some thought that meant a departure from Gruden’s earlier comments that Miller would focus on practicing on the left side. I wouldn’t put too much stock into the two snaps, as he was likely just getting his feet wet. Parker was drafted in the third round to start at right tackle and that is still the early plan.

Lee: Marquel Lee has surprised Guenther a little bit, and the second-year linebacker may carve out a role for himself on running downs. As of right now, veterans Tahir Whitehead, Derrick Johnson and Emmanuel Lamur are the three starting linebackers. Second-year player Nicholas Morrow could also factor in on passing downs.

Mack: “Return of the Mack, Return of the Mack …” Sorry, no, don’t play the classic Mark Morrison jam quite yet. Khalil Mack is still not reporting, as he is waiting for his big contract extension. The defensive end is surely in great shape, and will be ready to jump in when he finally hits the facility (or Napa, for training camp). Guenther is not too concerned about it.

“Well, he’s going to have a lot of catching up to do,” Guenther said. “We’re going to have to have a plan for that for sure. Really, I’m really concerned about the guys that are here now working. These guys have been busting their tails every day.”

Mack could be fined up to $84,000 for missing next week’s minicamp.

Nelson: Raiders safety Reggie Nelson will be a big part of the Raiders defense under his old coordinator Guenther. He is also excited about last year’s No. 1 pick, cornerback Gareon Conley.

“Oh man, I’m happy to see Conley out there running around,” Nelson said. “A player of his caliber — long, just like (Rashaan) Melvin — he’s showing why he was the first-round pick. I think there’s a high standard out there for him and he’s holding that up. I think Conley is doing a great job right now doing what the coaches ask him to do.”

Obi Melifonwu: The second-year safety took an inside football from Gruden last month about not being close to being ready to play, after injuries last year. But he has started participating in team drills the last two weeks and a Raiders player or official actually had something nice to say about him.

“I think Obi is working out all of his kinks and stuff right now,” Nelson said. “I’ve always been a fan of Obi, his size and how athletic he is and what he brings to the table when he’s healthy and stuff. So, I just can’t wait to see more out of Obi.

“He’s flying around, doing a good job competing like everyone else. I think Obi is going to be one of those shocking (us), because I like him. He’s a great athletic guy, tall, you know, just his body build period. Only he can stand in his way, to be honest with you.”

cont...
Is F. Brown that OTS surprise that’s okay or disappears come camp and ends up on the PS? Or that stand outs in preseason and plays himself into the roster? Either way, Calhoun’s in trouble and there’s reason to trade MEJ with Tank getting and Hester needing a spot.

Also, it would be nice if Lee and Morrow, not only carved out a niche, but earned playing time. Lamur has been beaten out as a starting LB every year since 2014, and Johnson’s not strong against the run.

R. Nelson having a big role in the D remains disappointing news. I hope it’s as a nickel or, better yet, dime DB.
 
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he's been the early "talk of camp" from the lower end of the roster. He could possibly let us move MEJ to a needy team and get something back if he keeps it up. I'm glad some of the new players and "old" new players are buying in and stepping up.

Yah MEJ will get us a coveted six rounder :chuckle:
 
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