Draft Grades

So was Ruggs chosen over Lamb simply because of the speed factor?

From everything I saw Lamb was plenty fast enough and an absolute stud fighting for the ball and a nightmare for defenses once he had the ball in his hands.

Hopefully we get the last laugh. Hate to see Lamb blow up in Dallas.
 
CrossBones said:
So was Ruggs chosen over Lamb simply because of the speed factor?

From everything I saw Lamb was plenty fast enough and an absolute stud fighting for the ball and a nightmare for defenses once he had the ball in his hands.

Hopefully we get the last laugh. Hate to see Lamb blow up in Dallas.
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Yep. And the second guessing from the cheap seats ("could have kept Cooper or drafted Lamb").

We'll see. Drafting = educated guessing / gambling
 
CrossBones said:
So was Ruggs chosen over Lamb simply because of the speed factor?

From everything I saw Lamb was plenty fast enough and an absolute stud fighting for the ball and a nightmare for defenses once he had the ball in his hands.

Hopefully we get the last laugh. Hate to see Lamb blow up in Dallas.
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I wanted Lamb over Ruggs. I think he's a more complete WR, but I get why they went with Ruggs for this team. We have Waller as our main pass catching option. Towards end of season, he was getting bracketed. Teams just didn't respect our other WRs. Ruggs forces the other team to respect his speed, even on underneath plays. I also think the plan was always to draft another bigger possession guy to round out the WR corp. Ruggs/Edwards should be seen as tandem picks. I could see both not having great numbers but still massively improving the offense.
 
007 said:
He gave us a C- this year.

Hopefully he's made to look stupid two years in a row.

Las Vegas Raiders | Snap Grade: C-
Pick Name Position Rk SPARQ RAS Comp Ht Wt
1.12 Henry Ruggs III WR3 15 ~99 9.66 Tyreek Hill 5'11 188
1.19 Damon Arnette CB11 83 --- --- Jourdan Lewis 5'11 195
3.80 Lynn Bowden WR14 94 --- --- Randall Cobb 5'11 204
3.81 Bryan Edwards WR16 105 --- --- James Jones 6'3 212
3.100 Tanner Muse LB10 112 93.9 9.97 Kyzir White 6'2 227
4.109 John Simpson iOL8 135 --- --- Landon Turner 6'4 321
4.139 Amik Robertson CB10 70 --- --- Chris Harris 5'8 187


I don’t understand the Raiders. Just like last year, I hated what they did early and loved what they did late. I hated the Arnette pick, and scratched my head a little at taking Ruggs over Lamb and Jeudy. Basically liked the rest of them. The Amik Robertson pick in particular is highway robbery if his body holds up.
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Remember, this Mediot's grade is based on his own subjective pre-draft player rankings. So, if Josh's pre-draft player rankings are unreliable and stupid, then, by definition, so is his grade of Mayock's drafts.

So, let's take a look what NFL GM's thought of ten of Josh's top 32 player rankings this year:
  • #6 Wirfs, OT1 -- OT3 #13
  • #7 Lamb, WR1 -- WR3 #17
  • #17 Epenesa, Edge2 -- Edge6 #54
  • #19 Shenault, WR4 -- WR 9 #42
  • #21 Fulton, CB 3 -- CB9 #61
  • #24 Jones, J, OT5 -- OT9 #72
  • #25 Johnson, CB4 -- CB7 #50
  • #25 Mims, WR6 -- WR13 #59
  • #28 Cleveland, OT6 -- OT8 #58
  • #29 Winfield, S1 -- S4 #45
Josh was not very good at identifying who NFL GM's viewed as the best WR or OT. Okay, I'll give Josh a mulligan on WR. Many people liked Lamb the best. That said, Thomas was my favorite OT, so I got Josh there who whiffed ranking Wirfs as OT1.

Let's look at Josh's criticism of Arnette: Putting aside that Pauline, Solak and Walter Football had 1st round grands on Arnette, and that Arnette's 3rd round grades all relied heavily on a slow combine 40 that has subsequently been called into question, let's take Arif's 2nd round grade on Arnette as proof that Mayock reached. Okay. Well, Josh, you also reached for 7 2nd round picks and 1 third round pick according to NFL GM's. That's some stones Josh is throwing from a glass house.

Now let's look at Josh's 3 round mock draft for the Raiders:
  • #12: Lamb, WR2 (NFL #17--WE’LL SEE)
  • #19: Fulton, CB2 (NFL #61--IRONIC)
  • #80: Brooks, LB (LONG GONE #27)
  • #81: Lewis, OG (GONE #69)
  • #91: Davis, DT (LONG GONE #56)
Josh has no clue how GM's actually view NFL prospects.
 
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PDX Raider said:
I wanted Lamb over Ruggs. I think he's a more complete WR, but I get why they went with Ruggs for this team. We have Waller as our main pass catching option. Towards end of season, he was getting bracketed. Teams just didn't respect our other WRs. Ruggs forces the other team to respect his speed, even on underneath plays. I also think the plan was always to draft another bigger possession guy to round out the WR corp. Ruggs/Edwards should be seen as tandem picks. I could see both not having great numbers but still massively improving the offense.
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I have concerns about if we will get first round production (If thats a thing) from Ruggs but I know you guys are right that he will be Waller and Renfrows best friend.

I'm just worried he's gonna be a 40 catch Ted Ginn type of guy who is completely under utilized here. I hope we get the ball in his hands a ton.
 
007 said:
I have concerns about if we will get first round production (If thats a thing) from Ruggs but I know you guys are right that he will be Waller and Renfrows best friend.

I'm just worried he's gonna be a 40 catch Ted Ginn type of guy who is completely under utilized here. I hope we get the ball in his hands a ton.
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Hopefully he's Jacobs' best friend too.
 
007 said:
Which part? Dubious character? Penalty Magnet? Lack of arm length? Speed issues? Oldest player in the draft? The fact Mayock said trades were offered and he got scared and pulled the plug?

Nothing that has been said was off base. It's all there in front of us.
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Dubious character? Urban Meyer says otherwise, and he doesn't praise many players the way he has Arnette.

Penalty magnet? Not in 2019.

Arm length and speed -- didn't show up in games. And his technique is very advanced -- better from my view from Mullens at the end of last season: excellent jam and plays with leverage to force the WR to the sideline when he's singled, good zone recognition, reads the QB well, and tackles better than many an NFL FS.

As for possible trade down, so what? If your guy is there, teams picking after you have needs at the same position, you make the pick. This isn't Fanspeak where you keep "drafting" until you get what you want.

Arnette made some changes in his life and game after thinking about declaring for the 2019 draft. Much more responsible, stepped up his game in practice and film room.

You don't like the pick, fine. Repeating every negative thing you read about him -- true or not, in context or not -- it's not like you.
 
Yeah hopefully the 95 percent of analysts and draft experts are wrong and Mayock is right @Birdwell

I remember you defending Conley and Hayden and Karl Joseph and Jonathan Abram the same way every year
 
007 said:
Yeah hopefully the 95 percent of analysts and draft experts are wrong and Mayock is right @Birdwell

I remember you defending Conley and Hayden and Karl Joseph and Jonathan Abram the same way every year
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Well, if 95% of them are based on a 4.56 combine run, and that is not accurate information, it would follow that their prospect ratings would be off. Pauline, Solak, Boylhart, and WalterFootball’s film reviews graded Arnette differently than post-combine reviews/rankings. Don’t often see such disparity pre-post combine.
 
Sleet said:
Well, if 95% of them are based on a 4.56 combine run, and that is not accurate information, it would follow that their prospect ratings would be off. Pauline, Solak, Boylhart, and WalterFootball’s film reviews graded Arnette differently than post-combine reviews/rankings. Don’t often see such disparity pre-post combine.
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As I said hopefully this DB reach is different than the other ones and Arnette can play with whatever speed/arm length/maturity issues he does or doesnt have.
 
007 said:
As I said hopefully this DB reach is different than the other ones and Arnette can play with whatever speed/arm length/maturity issues he does or doesnt have.
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He’s not a reach ~ Mayock. :chuckle:
 
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007 said:
Yeah hopefully the 95 percent of analysts and draft experts are wrong and Mayock is right @Birdwell

I remember you defending Conley and Hayden and Karl Joseph and Jonathan Abram the same way every year
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Hopefully we can trust the decisions made by our GM in consultation with the scouts, coaches, coordinators and HC.

I did not defend Hayden or Conley as sound technicians. Hayden never came close to what he had been at Houston, and I was critical of Red saying he woulda taken him at 1.3. The plug didn't get pulled until way too late. Conley I defended as someone who had the talent and was screwed by the false allegations. He played much softer than I expected, and his football IQ was a LOT lower than I thought.

KuJo was overdrafted. That is NEVER the fault of the player. He was a SS who played well against the run and was better than decent in zone. He was never going to cover TEs in man. He never played with a pair of NFL starting caliber corners.

Abrams showed in the one game he played what I saw. Stupid flag from the League office after the game that officials right on top of did not call. Made two plays that stopped drive, and the injury was not sustained from a hit but a freak thing when he held out his arm to break a fall.

We'll see this year.

Sal-mon.
 
007 said:
Doesn't matter how many picks a team has if it doesn't hit in the first round.
-Josh
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Fify

BTW, when (a) Ferrell confirms that he’s better than Gary, Burns and Sweat, and as good as Allen, (b) Jacobs has back-to-back offense altering seasons and (c) Abram lives up to his late 1st round billing, I’ve got a big Fuck You Josh coming.
 
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