You know what I found interesting?

[007]

http://www.raiders.com/history/draft_history.jsp


For all the talk we hear about Al Davis never drafting quarterback's in round one and how its 'highly unlikely' or 'buh he passed on Leinart'


I looked into it a bit further and here are some raw stats from our first rounder since 1970:

Al has drafted 2 QB's since 1970...Marc Wilson and Marinovich...Both bombed. Hard.

He's drafted 2 RB's since 1970: Allen and Kaufman. It's been 10+ years since he pulled the trigger on one.

3 Widereceivers: Brown, Jessie Hester and Mike Siani. It's been 15+ since he pulled the trigger on one.

So, why is it that we never hear " Al Davis won't draft Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson, because he never drafts those positions early"

I mean for fuck sakes, if there is one pattern Al Davis has shown, its that he doesnt have a pattern...

2 Kickers in the first round?

10+ DB's and 10+ lineman...It looks like Joe Thomas or Alan Branch should be locks...

He's also never traded down to my knowleadge, making that argument tough. (Although we would all love for us to end up with 5+ first day picks)

All in all, it was just some facts I dug through while debating with a guy on another site about how a QB is unlikely and thought it was interesting...

Thoughts?

 

[SoCalRaider]

Al has drafted 2 QB's since 1970...Marc Wilson and Marinovich...Both bombed. Hard.

He's drafted 2 RB's since 1970: Allen and Kaufman. It's been 10+ years since he pulled the trigger on one.

3 Widereceivers: Brown, Jessie Hester and Mike Siani. It's been 15+ since he pulled the trigger on one.

A more consistent analysis on RBs might also mention that Allen is a HOFer and SB MVP, while Kaufman was pretty damn good in his short career.

A more consistent analysis on WRs might also mention that Brown is arguably the greatest Raider WR ever.

So, why is it that we never hear " Al Davis won't draft Adrian Peterson or Calvin Johnson, because he never drafts those positions early"

... because he does draft those positions early and those drafts have provided Hall of Famers, and Super Bowl MVPs... as opposed to epic 1st round busts.

I mean for fuck sakes, if there is one pattern Al Davis has shown, its that he doesnt have a pattern...

2 Kickers in the first round?

This I would agree with to a degree. You can't look at Davis' last 15 or 20 drafts and predict who he is going to draft based only on position... Also have to consider the fact that some of the guys he really wanted (i.e. Orlando Pace, Jeremy Shockey) were off the board when Davis was up... not the case this year.

All in all, it was just some facts I dug through while debating with a guy on another site about how a QB is unlikely and thought it was interesting...

Thoughts?

Again, I think you have to throw position out the window and look at the actual player.

- Quinn has no chance of getting drafted by Davis because he doesn't fit the profile... not because of his position.

- JRuss is probably the favorite at this point because he fits the profile... not because of his position.

- C.Johnson is probably another favorite at this point because he fits the profile... not because of his position

- Adrian Peterson has absolutely no chance of being drafted by this organization simply because me and Davis have never, ever agreed on anything in regards to the draft... not because Peterson is the next Eric Dickerson (you read it here first by the way)

 

[hawaiianboy]

Al has drafted 2 QB's since 1970...Marc Wilson and Marinovich...Both bombed. Hard.

Interesting that we as fans have the QB bombs stick in our craw so much...Jessie Hester and Bob Buckowski were taken about where Marinovich was taken and John Clay was taken about where Wilson was taken, yet the names Hester, Buckowski and Clay never get mentioned during draft season... The Marinovich and Wilson wounds are opened pretty much yearly...


I think in this case, we should look at what Al has done specifically when he's held a draft spot in the top 10:

Mike Huff- Looks promising
Robert Gallery- Not so good so far
Charles Woodson- Great pick
Darrell Russell- Could have been better but had Pro Bowl years
Rickey Dudley- Bust
Tim Brown- Great Pick
Terry McDaniel- Great pick
Marcus Allen- Great pick

3 DB's, 3 skill positions and 2 linemen... Brown and Terry Mac in the same year ... Oddly enough Al has pretty much drafted to the concencus rankings... Even Rickey Dudley went right about where he was projected to go...



But here's something that's a little bizarre... Prior to the Gallery and Huff years, every other time we drafted in or right near the top 10, there wasn't a SINGLE QB taken within one round after we picked our guy...

• Charles Woodson (4th overall pick): Next QB taken at the end of RD2 (Charlie Batch)
  Darrell Russell (2nd): Next QB taken in the mid 2nd (Jake Plummer)
  Rickey Dudley (9th): Next QB taken in mid 2nd (Tony Banks)
  Tim Brown (6th) Terry Mac (9th): Next Qb taken at the end of the 3rd (Tom Tupa)
  Marcus Allen (10th): Next QB taken in the mid 2nd (Oliver Luck)
  Sean Jones (11th): Next QB taken in RD3 (Billy Joe Hobert)
  Patrick Bates (12th): Next QB taken in RD3 (Tommy Hudson)

It's a weird anomaly that every single time we've held a pick in the top 10 during those years, there was absolutely nothing there for us at QB, never mind a franchise type QB...

Now it's known that Al put a deal in place to move up for Elway and was interested in moving up for Carson Palmer so you know he's not opposed to getting into the top 5 for a QB he likes... He also expressed that he was dissuaded from taking Leinart last year (which is said to be what started the Lombardi-Shell slap fight)...


I don't know what all this means to this year s draft, but it's interesting none the less... Makes me wonder if there would be more 1st RD QB's in our history had our top 10 draft years matched up with QB talent better... Hell where would our franchise be had we simply selected Brett Farve instead of Marinovich in the one year we did use a pick on a QB?...


I'm just thankful there's no stud DB in this draft because it seems that 1st round DB's are Al's drug of choice...

because Peterson is the next Eric Dickerson (you read it here first by the way)

You're about three years late with that comparison , but it's a valid one none the less... but you may want to take a gander at who went a pick ahead of Dickerson at the top of the draft that year and figure out which one you would rather have ... Peterson would be a no brainer this year had Al followed his gut and taken Leinart last year... Oh well, what's done is done...

 

[Crow]

Interesting that we as fans have the QB bombs stick in our craw so much...Jessie Hester and Bob Buckowski were taken about where Marinovich was taken and John Clay was taken about where Wilson was taken, yet the names Hester, Buckowski and Clay never get mentioned during draft season... The Marinovich and Wilson wounds are opened pretty much yearly...

Busting at WR isn't nearly as hurtfull. There's almost always someone else to throw the ball to. I've yet to see a multi-QB formation in the NFL.

QB busts saddle you with a ridiculously overpaid bench warmer, or even worse, someone who makes so much money that you basically have to put them on the field.

I think in this case, we should look at what Al has done specifically when he's held a draft spot in the top 10:

Mike Huff- Looks promising
Robert Gallery- Not so good so far
Charles Woodson- Great pick
Darrell Russell- Could have been better but had Pro Bowl years
Rickey Dudley- Bust
Tim Brown- Great Pick
Terry McDaniel- Great pick
Marcus Allen- Great pick

3 DB's, 3 skill positions and 2 linemen... Brown and Terry Mac in the same year ... Oddly enough Al has pretty much drafted to the concencus rankings... Even Rickey Dudley went right about where he was projected to go...



But here's something that's a little bizarre... Prior to the Gallery and Huff years, every other time we drafted in or right near the top 10, there wasn't a SINGLE QB taken within one round after we picked our guy...

• Charles Woodson (4th overall pick): Next QB taken at the end of RD2 (Charlie Batch)
  Darrell Russell (2nd): Next QB taken in the mid 2nd (Jake Plummer)
  Rickey Dudley (9th): Next QB taken in mid 2nd (Tony Banks)
  Tim Brown (6th) Terry Mac (9th): Next Qb taken at the end of the 3rd (Tom Tupa)
  Marcus Allen (10th): Next QB taken in the mid 2nd (Oliver Luck)
  Sean Jones (11th): Next QB taken in RD3 (Billy Joe Hobert) Damn you!
  Patrick Bates (12th): Next QB taken in RD3 (Tommy Hudson)

It's a weird anomaly that every single time we've held a pick in the top 10 during those years, there was absolutely nothing there for us at QB, never mind a franchise type QB...

Hard to ignore the quality at QB he's passed up these last two years, though. Superior to this year's crop, IMO.

Now it's known that Al put a deal in place to move up for Elway and was interested in moving up for Carson Palmer so you know he's not opposed to getting into the top 5 for a QB he likes...

Haven't heard anything about Palmer.

He also expressed that he was dissuaded from taking Leinart last year (which is said to be what started the Lombardi-Shell slap fight)...

Must not have wanted him very badly...

I don't know what all this means to this year s draft, but it's interesting none the less... Makes me wonder if there would be more 1st RD QB's in our history had our top 10 draft years matched up with QB talent better... Hell where would our franchise be had we simply selected Brett Farve instead of Marinovich in the one year we did use a pick on a QB?...

Favre would have never met Holmgren and most likely spent his entire career with us the way he's played post-Holmgren: Throwing the most mind-numbingly stupid INTs we've ever seen.

I'm just thankful there's no stud DB in this draft because it seems that 1st round DB's are Al's drug of choice...

A Lil Al gimme.

 

[Crossbones]

... Makes me wonder if there would be more 1st RD QB's in our history had our top 10 draft years matched up with QB talent better...

This is why I argued three years ago that it was the year Al would pull the trigger on a QB. I argued Al never took a QB high because he was never in a position to do so. It didn't turn out that way that year or the next two either. But in the years we were in the top ten there was no 'franchise QB". He tried to get Elway and rumor is he tried hard to get to Palmer....But then Al blew up the whole theory by passing on Roethlisberger, Leinart and Cutler in consecutive years...dunno.

Al may surprise everybody on earth and pass on a QB again this time around.

And FTR, John Clay and Wilkerson were busts. I never forget about those two. Fuckers.

 

[Banter]

ddly enough Al has pretty much drafted to the concencus rankings... Even Rickey Dudley went right about where he was projected to go.

This is why I argued three years ago that it was the year Al would pull the trigger on a QB. I argued Al never took a QB high because he was never in a position to do so.

I think where it broke down for you Bones is neither Rivers or Roethlisberger were considered top 2 prospects. I just have a gut feeling had Al done the trade down with Cleveland at #7 then Roethlisberger would have been the pick. But no way was Al pulling the trigger on Roethlisberger at #2 overall.

On another note. If we draft JaMarcus will his nickname be The Crow. As in Russell "Crow".

 

[Byron2112]

But here's something that's a little bizarre... Prior to the Gallery and Huff years, every other time we drafted in or right near the top 10, there wasn't a SINGLE QB taken within one round after we picked our guy...

• Charles Woodson (4th overall pick): Next QB taken at the end of RD2 (Charlie Batch)
  Darrell Russell (2nd): Next QB taken in the mid 2nd (Jake Plummer)
  Rickey Dudley (9th): Next QB taken in mid 2nd (Tony Banks)
  Tim Brown (6th) Terry Mac (9th): Next Qb taken at the end of the 3rd (Tom Tupa)
  Marcus Allen (10th): Next QB taken in the mid 2nd (Oliver Luck)
  Sean Jones (11th): Next QB taken in RD3 (Billy Joe Hobert)
  Patrick Bates (12th): Next QB taken in RD3 (Tommy Hudson)

It's a weird anomaly that every single time we've held a pick in the top 10 during those years, there was absolutely nothing there for us at QB, never mind a franchise type QB...

Now it's known that Al put a deal in place to move up for Elway and was interested in moving up for Carson Palmer so you know he's not opposed to getting into the top 5 for a QB he likes... He also expressed that he was dissuaded from taking Leinart last year (which is said to be what started the Lombardi-Shell slap fight)...


I don't know what all this means to this year s draft, but it's interesting none the less... Makes me wonder if there would be more 1st RD QB's in our history had our top 10 draft years matched up with QB talent better... Hell where would our franchise be had we simply selected Brett Farve instead of Marinovich in the one year we did use a pick on a QB?...

Great post BTW. I think you're on the right track ,but not entirly accurate.

I did some research becasue I thought I recalled Big Chet and Anthony Smith being close to top 10 picks, both "surprises" to go that high according to Big Hair and the rest of the "draft guru" club as I remember it. Two guys that were good picks, but should have been much better, an unfortunately familiar refrain around here

Interestingly enough these drafts featured two of our favorite QB reclamation projects here in Raider Town.

Anthony Smith was selected 11th in 1990 and that was the year Jeff George went #1 overall(Andre Ware #7 too)... obviously Al had a mancrush on this guy. I'm guessing we just didn't have the ammo to move on him since he was thought to be Elway esq with arm at the time and Indy was well rehersed in bankrupting teams for college QB's with legendary arms.

Big Chet was selected 16th(not neccesarily a high pick) in 1992, while David "section 8" Klingler was selected 6th overall. I don't even want to knwo the details of a possible deal for this stiff, or if we even made a call, I'm just glad it didn't work out.

 

[hawaiianboy]

Favre would have never met Holmgren and most likely spent his entire career with us the way he's played post-Holmgren: Throwing the most mind-numbingly stupid INTs we've ever seen.

Granted, it's common knowledge that guys from the Dirty, Dirty South are generally a little slow in the head , but I'd have liked to see if we could have learned that there old boy some quarterbacking...

A Lil Al gimme.

let me tell you, you guys are going to need all the gimmees you can get...

Great post BTW. I think you're on the right track ,but not entirly accurate.

Yeah obviously I stupidly typed in Sean Jones,( who wasn't even drafted by us ), when it should have been Anthony Smith... I don't know why I always confuse those two...

I didn't include QB's that went off the board before we drafted because it's somewhat unrealistic to assume that we could trade up... I stayed right around the top 10 mark because most of the highly ranked franchise QB's are generally slated to go in the top 10...


Doesn't matter though, because as 007 established, there is no real pattern when it comes to Al... The only thing that makes me feel somewhat warm and fuzzy is that Al tends to be pretty conventional when top 10 money is involved... it's when he holds picks in the back half of round one that he tends to go loco....

 

[SoCalRaider]

You're about three years late with that comparison , but it's a valid one none the less... but you may want to take a gander at who went a pick ahead of Dickerson at the top of the draft that year and figure out which one you would rather have ...

I'd take Dickerson over Elway in a second. Though I do admit that I might be biased due to my hate of both Elway and the team he played for... Funny thing is I would have taken Marino over Dickerson (in retrospect). I had no idea that many teams (including the Raiders) passed on Marino.

 

[massraider]

Yeah obviously I stupidly typed in Sean Jones,( who wasn't even drafted by us ), when it should have been Anthony Smith... I don't know why I always confuse those two...
.

Thought Sean Jones was a 2nd round Raider pick. Was he traded to us from someone else?

 

[Jack's sore libido]

The Raiders drafted Sean Jones in the 2nd round of the 1984 draft. They later traded him to Houston, I believe.

 

[Jack's sore libido]

And by the way, the year we took Anthony Smith, I was screaming for Emmitt Smith.

 

[hawaiianboy]

The Raiders drafted Sean Jones in the 2nd round of the 1984 draft. They later traded him to Houston, I believe.

I stand corrected AGAIN... fuggin Sean Jones and his making me look bad self...

 

[raider60]

The Raiders drafted Sean Jones in the 2nd round of the 1984 draft. They later traded him to Houston, I believe.

And, if memory serves me correctly, the Raiders used the number one they got from Houston on Scott Davis the following year--

 

[TheNextStep]

I stand corrected AGAIN... fuggin Sean Jones and his making me look bad self...

Somebody needs to get fired over this shit!

 

[jatfly]

A few people here will be happy about this, there was a discussion on "The Opening Drive" with Randy Cross, and he spoke about a rumor where we give a 3rd or 4th for Carr, then trade down out of the number one spot and not Select Russell. He said maybe the take AP but not sure if we don't go with the RB if we drop since the line needs a fixing. He didn't say but it sounded like he was implying Thomas?
That could be interesting??????

 

[Turo]

I really hope we don't go OL at the top of the 1st round this year. If we trade down just a few spots, we've GOT to come up with one of the premier players. If not, we might as well trade down twice and pick up Lynch in the middle of the first and then go nuts in the 2nd and 3rd rounds with all the extra picks.