Who should we pick? State your case.

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RaiderIVlife

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The foremost question on our minds, even more so than who should be our coach in 2007, is who (or is that whom?) should the Raiders draft with the #1 selection?

As of January 2nd, 2007, I hope the Raiders end up with:

WR - Calvin Johnson

The irony here is that I've been begging the Raiders to draft a RB #1, ideally Marshawn Lynch. However, I think the goal of any draft, regardless of need, and we have many, is to nab the best football player at the point in which he is selected. Simple as that.

The Raiders draft #1, therefore and assuming we don't trade the pick, we should draft the best football player.

I'll admit up front that I've watched next to no college football this year and can only base this on the so-called "experts", pundits, what I've read and of course, what I've heard from ya'll.

Of all the players on the board, Johnson seems to have the least amont of question marks, and the best physical attributes.

I realize you "can't build a team around a WR", but it's hard to argue that 15 TD's and 1500 yards per year won't contribute strongly to a winning franchise.

With Moss/Porter being shown the door (and rightfully so), this guy is the perfect & best choice to make. We don't have a guy that can not only run & get open, but "go up and get the fucking ball" in the way Johnson apparently can. His upside, particularly in the offense the Raiders are trying to run, could be off the charts.

Besides, as much as I like Ronald Curry, the concern about his history of major injury will always be valid. Who is beyond that? Jonnie Morant?The more I see him play, the more I see why he doesn't play. Carlos Francis? Let's see him survive a preseason first. Buchanon? Whitted? C'mon. Buchanon might have some upside as a developmental long-term contributor, but it's not as though we should base our plans on him.

John Madsen? The Raiders seem intent on turning him into the next Shannon Sharpe. Can't blame Al for trying I suppose. Give this team a better line and everyone looks better anyway. Imagine a 3rd down set with Calvin Johson, Ronald Curry and John Madsen at TE?

I'd hate to pass on the potential Hall of Fame WR just to draft another play that has more question marks (IMO).

The Raiders have needs at basically every position on offense, why not draft the best one?
 
People know where I stand as of right now.

I am leaning 70 percent towards Brady Quinn;
25 percent trade down and aquire more picks;
5 percent drafting Calvin Johnson 1st overall.

My reasoning:

I don't think it's as easy as picking the best player available, as silly as it sounds...

I look at Calvin Johnson and think: In a good game he might see the ball 6-8 times...Is that really enough to warrant the first pick in the draft?

If he becomes the elite wide receiver he is supposed to be, will 1500 yards, 100 catches and 10 TD's really make the difference in a playoff run? I dunno.

Is our WR position in that dire a need? I assume one of Porter or Moss will still be here, Curry will be a very solid number two and Gabriel, Morant and Whitted will round out an average WR group. Good enough to win, IMO.

If we invest in Brady Quinn, he will be responsible for EVERY play we run as an offense. He'll call the audibles, read the defenses, lead the team, and make the plays with his arm and mobility.

He's got all th attributes you look for in a QB: Size, arm strength, mobility, intangibles, played in a Pro-ready offense, quick release, A face we could build a fan base around...

Let's not forget that everybody's favorite second rounder, Troy Smith is barely 5-11, has been suspended in University twice, and has only done his thing for two years, whereas Brady Quinn has started since week three of his freshman year...

At this point, I am sick of trotting out second rate options at the most important position on the field, and am as far from sold on Andrew Walter as it gets. Regardless of our O-line, he didnt make any plays, and he was among the worst starting QB's statistically in 10 years... which is why I am heavily leaning towards risking the first overall pick on a top notch QB prospect.

Sure all players have risk, and a QB has even more (Due to the position, the 'hype factor' and the huge responsibility) but I think at this point we are 2-3 years away from the playoffs, so taking the potential Golden boy might turn this franchise around.

The final reason is that I think our running back position is in better shape than our QB or WR positions...Lamont Jordan is one year removed from 1000 yards in 14 games, and being seventh in the league in yards from scrimmage. Justin Fargas averaged 4+ YPC and finally looked like a solid backup moving forward.

If we get them both healthy and confident, and have a QB worth a damn, we can win our share in the coming years.
 
007 - Ironically, I think your arguement is strong, very strong. Shit, if not Calvin Johnson, I'm leaning towards Quinn myself. I've moved pretty far away from my call for a RB over the past week.

I also believe a FA signing of say Stienbach & Runyan (possible IMHO) to go with a 2nd year of development from Booth & McQuistan could really bolster this line pretty quickly.

Shit, I thought Gallery even looked decent in the JET game, save for one play where a blitzing Safety was untouched for sack and even in that play, I'm not sure if that was a protection recognition thing on Brooks or not? Point is, he still might become a decent player, Slaughter looks decent and the hell knows who we might draft to add to the mix. More than anything else, staying with the current system (in it's basic core philosophy) will pay divends next year as well. WE CAN'T change yet again. Basiclally O-line, as bad as it is, should be easier to upgrade than we think. I'll take adequate at this point and are still young BTW.

Anyway, I want to debate Quinn some more, but I'll let a few more opinions drop in just to add to the arguement.

Here's to good debate.....
 
Quinn, Ap or CJ. If we select anybody else without trading down. I will shit my pants.
 
Quinn is what the peanut gallery wants. Maybe we pick him to shut up the critics, Or Al picks the athletic freak CJ. Or maybe he decides to pick a LJ, LT type and goes with the highly touted All Day Peterson. I mean the kid has a monster NicKname in college! I just hope we dont fuck this up and take Gaines Adams #1 overall or Branch, without trading down!
 
Raiderfan007 said:
People know where I stand as of right now.

I am leaning 70 percent towards Brady Quinn;
25 percent trade down and aquire more picks;
5 percent drafting Calvin Johnson 1st overall.

My reasoning:

I don't think it's as easy as picking the best player available, as silly as it sounds...

I look at Calvin Johnson and think: In a good game he might see the ball 6-8 times...Is that really enough to warrant the first pick in the draft?

If he becomes the elite wide receiver he is supposed to be, will 1500 yards, 100 catches and 10 TD's really make the difference in a playoff run? I dunno.

Is our WR position in that dire a need? I assume one of Porter or Moss will still be here, Curry will be a very solid number two and Gabriel, Morant and Whitted will round out an average WR group. Good enough to win, IMO.

If we invest in Brady Quinn, he will be responsible for EVERY play we run as an offense. He'll call the audibles, read the defenses, lead the team, and make the plays with his arm and mobility.

He's got all th attributes you look for in a QB: Size, arm strength, mobility, intangibles, played in a Pro-ready offense, quick release, A face we could build a fan base around...

Let's not forget that everybody's favorite second rounder, Troy Smith is barely 5-11, has been suspended in University twice, and has only done his thing for two years, whereas Brady Quinn has started since week three of his freshman year...

At this point, I am sick of trotting out second rate options at the most important position on the field, and am as far from sold on Andrew Walter as it gets. Regardless of our O-line, he didnt make any plays, and he was among the worst starting QB's statistically in 10 years... which is why I am heavily leaning towards risking the first overall pick on a top notch QB prospect.

Sure all players have risk, and a QB has even more (Due to the position, the 'hype factor' and the huge responsibility) but I think at this point we are 2-3 years away from the playoffs, so taking the potential Golden boy might turn this franchise around.

The final reason is that I think our running back position is in better shape than our QB or WR positions...Lamont Jordan is one year removed from 1000 yards in 14 games, and being seventh in the league in yards from scrimmage. Justin Fargas averaged 4+ YPC and finally looked like a solid backup moving forward.

If we get them both healthy and confident, and have a QB worth a damn, we can win our share in the coming years.
Click to expand...

He almost had 200 yards and 2 TD's in a loss this week, that makes your 6-8 touches seem just fine. I dont think he is the savior of this offense, but is Brady Quinn gonna pull a Vince Young/Vick when we are giving up our 70+ sacks? Talk about Moss and Porter, but they shouldnt be part of our thinking b/c they both want out. Gabriel and Curry might also be gone. None of us want that, but we didnt when Doug got traded either. Curry is due a payday and Al is on record dissing DG. Would A.Walter be as good as Phil Rivers if he were in San Diego? Maybe not, but just food for thought. I think we can get a fine QB in round two and a safer weapon on O with AP or CJ in round one. I am also in favor of trading down, but im not expecting it at all. BQ= Gamble Raiders dont need a gamble, we need a safe bet. CJ or AP are both less of a gamble IMO. But hey Gallery was a safe pick so who really knows?
 
Since i compared Rivers and AW(a stretch) then it should be said Rivers hadnt even played yet when he was in his second year. AW was in charge of an O that couldnt move anything if they had a U-Haul an forklift. So im not completly giving up on a guy who had less time to perform than white rapper at the Apollo. Sorry for the 8 posts in a row. Drinking and posting dont mix. Its like drunk dialing...
 
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Raiderfan007 said:
People know where I stand as of right now.

I am leaning 70 percent towards Brady Quinn;
25 percent trade down and aquire more picks;
5 percent drafting Calvin Johnson 1st overall.

My reasoning:

I don't think it's as easy as picking the best player available, as silly as it sounds...

I look at Calvin Johnson and think: In a good game he might see the ball 6-8 times...Is that really enough to warrant the first pick in the draft?

If he becomes the elite wide receiver he is supposed to be, will 1500 yards, 100 catches and 10 TD's really make the difference in a playoff run? I dunno.

Is our WR position in that dire a need? I assume one of Porter or Moss will still be here, Curry will be a very solid number two and Gabriel, Morant and Whitted will round out an average WR group. Good enough to win, IMO.

If we invest in Brady Quinn, he will be responsible for EVERY play we run as an offense. He'll call the audibles, read the defenses, lead the team, and make the plays with his arm and mobility.

He's got all th attributes you look for in a QB: Size, arm strength, mobility, intangibles, played in a Pro-ready offense, quick release, A face we could build a fan base around...

Let's not forget that everybody's favorite second rounder, Troy Smith is barely 5-11, has been suspended in University twice, and has only done his thing for two years, whereas Brady Quinn has started since week three of his freshman year...

At this point, I am sick of trotting out second rate options at the most important position on the field, and am as far from sold on Andrew Walter as it gets. Regardless of our O-line, he didnt make any plays, and he was among the worst starting QB's statistically in 10 years... which is why I am heavily leaning towards risking the first overall pick on a top notch QB prospect.

Sure all players have risk, and a QB has even more (Due to the position, the 'hype factor' and the huge responsibility) but I think at this point we are 2-3 years away from the playoffs, so taking the potential Golden boy might turn this franchise around.

The final reason is that I think our running back position is in better shape than our QB or WR positions...Lamont Jordan is one year removed from 1000 yards in 14 games, and being seventh in the league in yards from scrimmage. Justin Fargas averaged 4+ YPC and finally looked like a solid backup moving forward.

If we get them both healthy and confident, and have a QB worth a damn, we can win our share in the coming years.
Click to expand...

Beautiful.

Let's stop being pussies.
 
The final reason is that I think our running back position is in better shape than our QB or WR positions...Lamont Jordan is one year removed from 1000 yards in 14 games, and being seventh in the league in yards from scrimmage. Justin Fargas averaged 4+ YPC and finally looked like a solid backup moving forward.
Click to expand...
Wow you are the first to agree with me on the RB spot is ok, Jordon would be fine and Fargas seems to be a decent Back up.
I haven't decided yet on thr first pick, so I like C. Johnson and the Quinn pick makes sence but I also wouldn't mind a RB later. I like the WR position for us if we get rid of Moss and Porter.
 
Only a QB makes sense with the first overall pick. To much risk to gamble on on a player whose upside will never have the impact of a great QB. Trading down is the only way I'd consider drafting someone else.
 
I say RB-Adrian Peterson, and have reiterated my stance as to why too much to do it again.
 
I am starting to lean towards building O-LIne and weapons first. Then add a QB as the cherry on top.
LT never looked bad while Brees struggled early. He has been the constant while Brees developed and was moved, and still is while Rivers learns.He carried the team when there were no WR's, no dominate QB play and a few bad lines. Now they are all fixed and SD is looking at the superbowl after being a joke just a few years ago. AP or CJ in 07!
 
My vote is to trade down but if we stay put at #1I'll take Adrien Peterson hands down. Nothing beats a great running game imo. Jordan is coming off ligament damage and won't be right for at least 16 months, plus he was only marginal anyway. Fargas is a nice backup.

I heard on the radio last night that nobody should be suprised to see the first two picks go Brady Quinn followed by JaMarcus Russell. Apparently Russell's stock is soaring, but tonight's game and the combine will tell more. I can see Al going for the Calvin Johnson or the big, strong-armed, mobile qb from LSU.
 
I won't "make a case," but I LOVE the well-documented fact that Peterson gets better from the 3rd quarter on. Plus he has played all the top competition in his 3 (2, really) years.
 
It's hard with me to bandwagon one player right now because who the head coach and offensive staff ends up being will be a huge variable IMO...

I do think the "can't miss/can succeed no matter who drafts him" players in the draft are Adrian Peterson and Alan Branch(providing he declares)...

DT's that can play the run with the kind of size, wingspan and motor that Alan Branch posseses are plug and play from day one... Branch as it stands not only is a top 10 draft pick but also a guy with ascending ability that could easily move up into the top 3 of the draft after workouts IMO... As much as I loved Haloti Ngata last year, there's no question in my mind that Branch is the superior prospect... Branch won't need a Ray Lewis behind him proding him to play to his talent ceiling...

Adrian Peterson

Adrian Peterson IMO, is the impact player in the draft... I really like that he is decisive in both seeing and hitting the seam... Even when he only gains two yards, he most often than not reads the blocks correctly and is aggressive in getting his shoulders turned and hitting the LOS... The blocking scheme Denver uses is so tailor made to AD that I have nightmares about them trading up to get him should we take someone else... That stretch play to the sealing LT that Oklahoma utilizes him in could become the same kind of signature go to play that it was for Priest Holmes in KC...

If Art is retained I think you almost have to go with Peterson... It would give us the legitimate home run threat that he could feed the ball to 25 times a game, and in essence take the ball out of the QB hands for the most part while setting up play action... It's a theory that has served San Diego well... While there is merit that a healthy Lamont Jordan paired with Fargas is servicable, the difference between the way a defense approaches playing an elite back vs an adequate RB is huge... You'll never see a defense dedicate an extra player in the box to a Lamont Jordan... Peterson, IMO, is a back coordinators have to account and game plan for... At the same time, AD has the kind of breakaway speed that makes one think twice about taking a LB out from the second level with run blitzes...

If Art is indeed retained, his apparent choice of system is so QB unfriendly that I think going the grizzled vet QB/stud RB route is the smart play... At this time, matching a QB with a high football IQ like a David Carr with Peterson would be my choice... Carr is not the kind of QB that can carry a team on his shoulders, but provide him with a 25 carry a game rainmaker at RB, mix in those bootlegs and he can play to just outside the top tier of QB's IMO...


Brady Quinn

I guess I'm proof that you can like AD and not hate on Brady... I actually like the kid... but had he come out last year he would have been probably the concencus third rated QB in the draft... I personally like Leinart better... but should we bring in a coach with a track record of developing QB's, I'd be on board with grabbing Brady... Matching Brady with a coach with QB driven offenses like the ones utilized by a Weis or Petrino would be a good start... Those systems revolve on a QB making smart, quick decisions with the ball... I'm just not on board with matching another young QB with Art's apparent choice of offensive system... The QB is just asked to hold the ball too long... That's daunting enough for a vet, more so with a kid... I find Quinn similar to Eli Manning in that he looks great when there's a rthym to the passing game, and a little erratic when pressure takes that 1-2-throw, 1-2-throw rhythym away...

The one thing that's working in favor of the people that want to draft Quinn is all three first round picks last year showed well... but then again Leinart had tons of big game experience, and Cutler and Young have Mike Heimerdinger and Norm Chow coaching them up... if we do invest a #1 on Quinn, it's imperative we put some money into a top level QB coach...


Calvin Johnson

I think CJ is a stud, but the hedge with WR's is so much of their success is two pronged... More often than not, a WR needs a QB and a good system to maximize his effectiveness... Randy Moss was an exception to the rule, but for all of his attributes, CJ doesn't possess the kind of top end speed the young Moss had that allowed him to outrun deep help... With the right coaching hire and the right pickups in free agency, the CJ pick would make sense,. much the way the Rams taking Tory Holt after adding Martz and Marshall Faulk in the same offseason did... He could be a guy that works the hashes like the pre-bitch TO did...



Trading down

Sounds great... ain't likely to happen... Not necessarily because Al is adverse to it, but because being at the top of the draft actually makes it harder to do IMO... Not only will some team have to fall in love with a guy that we'd be likely to take ourselves, but that team would have to love the guy enough to give up a bushel of top of the round picks AND be willing to pay the frieght that goes with a top 3 pick... The Giants did it to get Crow's homeboy Eli Manning and appear to be currently holding their ankles while AJ Smith yells Who's Your Daddy?... That in effect may make other teams gunshy since misses like that tend to cost GM's their job...


So as it stands, my current vote goes to Adrian Peterson... I'm not a numbers guy so I can't give a statistical argument based on past position failures, but my eyes tell me he's the best player of the big three... That may not be the high brow method but it's all I got... He'd give us a Shaun Alexander workhorse that we could run the offense through a a legitimate threat to the edge of the defense... A guy that makes the QB's job easier simply because teams have to account for him by putting an extra man in the box... Give me Peterson in RD1 and Zach Miller in RD2... (and for the record, I'd much rather take Kevin Kolb in the 3rd or 4th than take Troy Smith in the second)...

Hell as unoptimistic as I am right now, I'd be a tad more jolley if we 1)Got an innovative coaching staff in to run the offense and utilize what talent we do have on the roster and 2)ditched the lead step and went back to a drop step protection scheme and added a couple of free agents to the O-line... Gallery is a slide and mirror protector, always has been, always will be... Let's go back to a pass pro scheme that plays to his strengths and build around that...

We do that, pound the rock with the stud back Peterson 25 times a game and have Moss (or Gabriel) run the safeties off deep while guys like Curry, Zach Miller, Madsen and Porter work the middle of the field in YAC situations, and I might be thinking playoffs...


Quinn is tempting because it would be nice to have an elite QB, but mid tier guys like Matt Hassleback and Trent Green also have won in the league when put in a situation where the offense funnels through an elite RB...I don't think it implausable that an Andrew Walter (or David Carr) could do the same if put in similar circumstance... but like I've said before, it's ultimately on the coaches to put the players in the best position to productively succeed...

HB's choices in order: 1) Peterson 2) Quinn 3) Branch 4) CJ
 
Peterson seems to be a safer bet than Brady Quinn. But the potential from a QB will always be greater than that of a RB, when you can match them some way.

Almost any QB pick is a gamble, and you can lose all your money in a breath. With a RB the rate of failure going to the NFL appears to be smaller. I agree with HBoy in the case Art Shell stays at home: Peterson is the best adequate player under current unchanged circumstances. Art would waste Quinn in a moment, just doesn't seem able to do complex things like developing a QB, and we've seen it.

Buty if we bring a strategy specialist-offensive minded-Imagination exceeded-instilling capability, then we must go for Quinn and find out if he's "The next Messiah" as some fans used that term previously. Who knows what the result can be? Nobody. But let's not be afraid. This sport is almost like war, and you cannot be there taking always the safer choices. Wanna be a hero? You won't get it keeping your self hidden behind cautious reasoning.

In the long term it really doesn't mean much, cos we've wasted picks like hell. As Bones always states correctly, the draft is the mother of all crap shoots, and you know a 100% insurance doesn't exist. So it's always a bet, and you have to pay the guy a lot of money just to show up at camp, while in the end, can be a bust.

We've drafted better lately, but only because weve had tons of picks. We got two first and second rounders from Tampon bay for the rights oft that bitch Gruden. Gallery was a numer two overall, and Huff is a top ten pick. Yeah, we got some good stuff, but we lost a lot in the process.

For some reason other teams seem to pick better, and this only subjective, cos again, the draft its the fuckin mother of all crap shoots. But we see Ed Reeds, Shaun Alexander and many others drafted after our turn. Of course there are a lot of other stupid teams letting people go by, but sharing the same disgrace its the consolation of fools.

Excellence is hard to achieve, but we had it. We just want that back. Had it for decades, then we became a misserable football team, except for the Gruden age, and we know it was a WCO. He was an offensive pussy, but the damn son of a bitch won a lot of games for us and made us respectable.

We should get back to something like that.
 
If the draft was today then I would want us to pick Peterson. We need a strong running game to have success in our division.
 
As has been mentioned in previous posts, the pick will depend upon the coaching staff.

1) Shell out for Petrino

1.1 - Brian Brohm QB Louisville - In my opinion the best QB and offensive player available. May declare if Petrino goes to the NFL.

2.33 - Zach Miller TE ASU / Matt Spaeth TE Minnesota / Greg Olsen TE Miami


2) Offensive-minded, modern-era head coach with sight lines unencumbered by his own snuggly collared sphincter.

1.1 - Adrian Peterson RB Oklahoma - After Brohm, I think he is the best impact offensive player in the draft.

2.33 - Zach Miller TE ASU / Matt Spaeth TE Minnesota / Greg Olsen TE Miami

3) My personal hope

Trade down with Cleveland 1.1 and Barry Sims for 1.3, 2.36 and next years #2

1.3 Allen Branch DT Michigan - Not only will he and Sands keep Morrison clean, he can collapse a pocket in no time. The latter will be important when facing Rivers and Cutler a couple of times a year.

2.33 - Zach Miller TE ASU / Matt Spaeth TE Minnesota / Greg Olsen TE Miami / Scott Chandler TE Iowa

2.36 - Michael Bush RB Louisville - If he comes out, he is the kind of back that can wear teams down.
 
GTP -- what do you think about Zach Miller? You like the guy?. :p
 
Absolutely Bones. Zach Miller is going to be the real deal in the NFL. He doesn't just want to start in the NFL he wants to be the best.

Spaeth and Chandler are also high intensity / strong character players who could possibly be drafted later and wouldn't be bad to have on the Raiders. Both are a little less talented than Miller when it comes to the picnic portion of football.

Olsen is a good receiver also, but lacks the physicallity of the other three.
 
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