Whitted gets the start for raiders on mnf chargers

[Plunkett16]

Wide receiver Whitted gets surprise start for Raiders
Wed, 6 Sep 2006 23:29:03 PDT

Alvis Whitted will start at wide receiverfor the Oakland Raiders in their season opener against San Diego,filling the role vacated when Doug Gabriel was traded to NewEngland.

Li

 

[Crossbones]

I'm not sure I understand this.

Whatever. No sense having the bewt players on the fireld I suppose.

 

[Rupert]

Oh, they'll get on the field, they just won't have the privilege of starting.

 

[Chris_77]

Oh, they'll get on the field, they just won't have the privilege of starting.

If that's the case then Jerry Porter isn't the only one acting like a child. It's time to either accept him back into the fold or "Keyshawn Johnson" him. There is a fine line between showing a player who is boss and sinking to his level. These symbolic slaps in the face are on the verge of being counter productive IMO.

 

[Crossbones]

If that's the case then Jerry Porter isn't the only one acting like a child. It's time to either accept him back into the fold or "Keyshawn Johnson" him. There is a fine line between showing a player who is boss and sinking to his level. These symbolic slaps in the face are on the verge of being counter productive IMO.

We're on the same page today gst8...as much as I'm pissed about Porter's rant(s) and hissy fit I'm a little tired of the way Shell is continuing to treat the guy like a high school kid. From Art's own statement Porter is working hard in practice etc....isn't it time to stop hammering this guy and put him in the lineup. I think the message has been sent loud and clear and right now we need the best players on the field so we can win as early as poosible. Not starting Porter is childless in my view after Gabriel was traded.

 

[Rupert]

If that's the case then Jerry Porter isn't the only one acting like a child. It's time to either accept him back into the fold or "Keyshawn Johnson" him. There is a fine line between showing a player who is boss and sinking to his level. These symbolic slaps in the face are on the verge of being counter productive IMO.

But let me ask you, if a subordinate tells you to screw yourself on your first day on the job, and never apologizes to you, how do you handle it? Especially if you cannot fire him on the spot or transfer him to another division?

I love all the talk about letting Porter onto the field, but it's counter productive to discipline in the organization. If Porter doesn't change his tune and Shell let's him back on the field, every swining dick in the organization will know you can roll over Shell if you have a big contract. Pretty soon no-one listens to him and then you've got anarchy.

I don't balme Shell at all. What he's doing is not petty and it's not a symbolic slap in the face. What he's doing is calculated and necessary. Porter stays demoted until he accepts the program. You go along to get along. Porter crossed the wrong guy. He's either got to apologize or he's going to ride the pine. We've got at least 2 guys that can do what he does, and they both drink the coach's Kool-aid.

Whitted? I know it sounds goofy, but Shell's right. Whitted has put in his time with Shell. He's done his duty, and he actually looks decent. Will we see plenty of Curry and Morant? Definitely. Porter? That remains to be seen. Shell has said it, you're either with him or against him, and he only wants those who are with him. "he's put in his work. He's practicing." That's Art's way of saying, I make the decisions and I'm not talking about it with the media.

 

[Crossbones]

If Porter doesn't change his tune and Shell let's him back on the field, every swining dick in the organization will know you can roll over Shell if you have a big contract.

But according to Shell himself, Porter apparently has chanced his tune. At what point do you keep stepping on this guy's neck?

 

[Chris_77]

We're on the same page today gst8...as much as I'm pissed about Porter's rant(s) and hissy fit I'm a little tired of the way Shell is continuing to treat the guy like a high school kid. From Art's own statement Porter is working hard in practice etc....isn't it time to stop hammering this guy and put him in the lineup. I think the message has been sent loud and clear and right now we need the best players on the field so we can win as early as poosible. Not starting Porter is childless in my view after Gabriel was traded.

Agreed.

A big part of the "destroy and rebuild" approach to attitude adjustment is the willingness to move on at some point. IF Porter has indeed toned down and displayed a willingness to do things the right way, then continuing to punish him is going to eventually cost Art some credibility with the team. Preseason is over... the point has been made... it's time to go out and win some games.

No ones ego should be bigger than the team- Porter's or Art's.

 

[Angry Pope]

For me, I don't ever see players apologizing to head coaches in any sport so I doubt that Art is waiting for that from Porter.

Porter has changed his attitude. He is practicing hard, gets congrats from his teamates when he makes a nice catch, and tosses the ball around the sidelines with a teamate. These are all signs of being a teamate, being accepted, and being with the program.

If we don't reward hardwork on the practice field, such as in Porter's case, then it sends a bad message. That message is that if you have a disagreement with the headcoach, you can never get out of the doghouse and that sends a bad message to the rest of players.

Hey, they had a disagreement in training camp. That was long ago. Porter avoids reporters and does his job, what else can he do?

 

[Rupert]

Benedict: Of course you don't see it. It's a humbling experience for people with such enormous egos. And acting appropriately on the practice field is an outward sign of apology. For the record, Allen Iverson apologized to Larry Brown (and he has a huge ego).

Now, Art Shell rewards Whitted for doing all the workouts and not having a fake injury. He played it cautious with Curry and doesn't name him the starter because he hasn't done all the work Whitted did.

We ALL assume Porter was jaking it during camp. So Porter actively showed disrespect to both the head coach and the organization throughout training camp.

The message is, you pull your weight or you get what you deserve. Porter has not pulled his own weight through training camp. He has actively shown disrespect for the head coach. Even Sapp called him a baby and said he needed to be left behind. But all of a sudden, the season is here and he should be rewarded for arguing with the head coach and jaking it through camp?

I just don't buy what you guys are selling. Totally the wrong message. Porter might be working hard now, but others have been working hard all off-season, and rewarding that slacker primadonna now sends the message that players don't need to work hard in the off-season. Is that really the right message to send to the team? Don't work out until you feel like it? Slack off until the last minute? Is that really how the organization should be run? Do you really want Norv Turner back? Mike White? Joe Bugel? Bill Callahan?

 

[Abelardo]

Porter is not doing OK. He earns big money and is the most experienced WR besides Moss, and he aint the starter? At least he will be in uniform...

The Raiders offnce is a new one in many ways, so this first game wil have a lot of reconaissance duties... I expect the real sarters list in a month. But don't expect too much ouput from the unit this week. We will rely on defence to stand in the game.

 

[Angry Pope]

Benedict: Of course you don't see it. It's a humbling experience for people with such enormous egos. And acting appropriately on the practice field is an outward sign of apology. For the record, Allen Iverson apologized to Larry Brown (and he has a huge ego).

Now, Art Shell rewards Whitted for doing all the workouts and not having a fake injury. He played it cautious with Curry and doesn't name him the starter because he hasn't done all the work Whitted did.

We ALL assume Porter was jaking it during camp. So Porter actively showed disrespect to both the head coach and the organization throughout training camp.

The message is, you pull your weight or you get what you deserve. Porter has not pulled his own weight through training camp. He has actively shown disrespect for the head coach. Even Sapp called him a baby and said he needed to be left behind. But all of a sudden, the season is here and he should be rewarded for arguing with the head coach and jaking it through camp?

I just don't buy what you guys are selling. Totally the wrong message. Porter might be working hard now, but others have been working hard all off-season, and rewarding that slacker primadonna now sends the message that players don't need to work hard in the off-season. Is that really the right message to send to the team? Don't work out until you feel like it? Slack off until the last minute? Is that really how the organization should be run? Do you really want Norv Turner back? Mike White? Joe Bugel? Bill Callahan?

A public apology is not the norm for any sports player to take part in. If Art wants Porter to actually say that he is sorry, it won't happen. Porter is making his money.

Whitted is not the receiver Porter is so working hard and putting the best players on the field is apples and oranges. Do we really want to put Whitted, the less talented player, on the field just to rub into Porter's face?

Porter didn't slack off until the last minute. He has been working hard for the past couple of weeks or so...since his injury was healed.

The message it is sending is that no matter what a player does, he can never get out of the doghouse. He can practice hard, make tremendous catches in practice, be a good teamate and still remain with the scarlett letter.

I don't want Porter to kiss Art's feet...I want him to want to play and play hard and that is what he is doing. The sweetest message anyone coach can give is that if you work hard and you are clearly the best player of the two, then you deserve to start. Otherwise, it sends a negative message and you risk losing the respect of the team.

 

[Crossbones]

Bill Parcells is fced with a sililar sitautin in Dallzs although I preceive it wors than anything Porter has ever done. Guess what...time to win games...Ownens wil lbe i nthe starting lineup.

Like Benedict and gst8 have said in theis thread, time to forgive and forget. IF Porter has learned his lesson there is no reason to punich the redswt of the players IF Porter is the beswt plaeyr on the field.

I have been as critical of Proter as anybody but if what Art says is true it's time to get the best team on the field just like they'll do in Dallas (as much as I hate Ownens). That's what needs to be done. A token start for Whitted (what, one series?) doesn't send any better messaage IMO.

 

[Plunkett16]

trust me, if whitted doesn't do good on mnf porter will regain his job back or curry will get his shot. porter put himself in this situation by telling the media he wanted trade. I think shell is doing the right thing by forcing him to earn his job back. yes, he is working at it but time will tell. maybe, if porter would change his attitude bit more he can earn shell trust as well.

 

[Crossbones]

I'm not sure what else Shell wants Porter to do at this point. Art has said he's doing well and working hard. I haven't heard Porter pop off anymore in the media. He seems to be bonding with his teammates. WTF? All I know is I want to win Monday night -- whatever that takes and I don't want our second best receiver on the bench to beat a dead horse. Art has made his point. Porter seems to understand and apparently is responding favorably. At some point Porter has to say to himself "WTF does Shell want me to do?"

 

[Rupert]

Okay, when did I say PUBLIC apology? Never. When did I require the kissing of feet or rings? Never. That's one silly-ass extrapolation.

Porter DID slack off until the last minute. He slacked off until he saw he wasn't getting away with his antics. He faked an injury like he did last year, and Art dropped him down the depth chart.

What Art is saying is that you earn your way up the depth chart. Who was the #3 WR before Gabriel was traded? Whitted. Now Whitted is #2. It makes logical sense. Art is saying you earn your way out of the doghouse, you don't get a free pass.

I just don't see the VERY COLD statements made by Shell about Porter as endorsing Porter's good work habits. I guess you all do. To me Art was telling the press he wasn't discussing Porter's situation, and nothing else. He would have said everyone on the team was working hard and wasn't going to get into one player over another.

Curry brings more to the table than Porter, and Porter brings more than Whitted. Hell I think Morant brings more than Whitted. But that's not the question. The question is who the head coach thinks deserves the start. He's giving Whitted the start for his hard work during the off-season and camp.

You see it all the time, guys not getting a start for discplinary reasons but getting the majority of the snaps. If Whitted remains the starter, and is as ineffective as we suppose he will be, and Porter stays on the bench while Curry and Morant are also ineffective, then we'll know it's a stupid decision.

But right now, none of us has any idea what Art Shell will do, yet some people are jumping to conclusions about the decision itself. It makes perfect sense and is an exclamation point to the whole incident. If Curry and Morant and even Whitted step it up and make Porter expendable, then Porter screwed himself.

Art Shell has to play Porter at least some Monday night, otherwise there's nothing to do but eat crow if the other guys prove ineffective. I don't think they will, but I don't think you leave a weapon unused if you need it for victory. And victory might be measured one game at a time, but there's a season to consider too. If you get the victory Monday, but cannot use Porter if you need to in the future, you screwed the team to prove a point. Of course, you seem to think I endorse that type of thinking. Far from it.

 

[Crossbones]

Persoanlly I think the "work your way up the depth chart" is BS.

To me Morant has clearly out played Whitted. If so he should be the starter assuming Curry can't go because he isn't ready. To do otherwise is an insult IMO to the fans and the organization. This move with Whitted is just a power play and has very little to do with having the best team on the field. You wnat to say Porter still needs to be disciplined more? OK...than start Morant.

 

[Angry Pope]

I don't balme Shell at all. What he's doing is not petty and it's not a symbolic slap in the face. What he's doing is calculated and necessary. Porter stays demoted until he accepts the program. You go along to get along. Porter crossed the wrong guy. He's either got to apologize or he's going to ride the pine. We've got at least 2 guys that can do what he does, and they both drink the coach's Kool-aid.

Rupert, this is where I got the public apology from and kissing Art's feet. For me, that is what it sounded like. I mean, he stays demoted until he accepts the program? What else can Porter do since he has already put in the hardwork and other things I mentioned....what else is left?

Curry brings more to the table than Porter, and Porter brings more than Whitted. Hell I think Morant brings more than Whitted. But that's not the question. The question is who the head coach thinks deserves the start. He's giving Whitted the start for his hard work during the off-season and camp.

Whitted doesn't deserve the start because he is clearly not second as far as best receiver and everyone of the Raiders players knows that. Therefore, it is a bad gesture to someone (Porter) and the rest of the team that is trying to win.

You see it all the time, guys not getting a start for discplinary reasons but getting the majority of the snaps. If Whitted remains the starter, and is as ineffective as we suppose he will be, and Porter stays on the bench while Curry and Morant are also ineffective, then we'll know it's a stupid decision.

The better coaching move, in my opinion, is to discipline the players when the incident happens, not more than two weeks after and the player is working hard and being a good teamate.

The difference in what you are mentioning is that a player misses a meeting, a curfew or whatever. That punishment is doled out soon after the incident.

You are assuming that Porter was faking an injury when we don't know that.

If I had an employer who saw me working hard and clearly had more ability than my peer and my peer got the promotion, I would be upset. It would show me that my employer is holding some kind of grudge and not looking at the quality of my work nor my determination. I am sure the other people in the office would think the same thing.

 

[Angry Pope]

Disregard...double post again...I am sorry Bones...don't know why that happens...

 

[Plunkett16]

Okay, when did I say PUBLIC apology? Never. When did I require the kissing of feet or rings? Never. That's one silly-ass extrapolation.

Porter DID slack off until the last minute. He slacked off until he saw he wasn't getting away with his antics. He faked an injury like he did last year, and Art dropped him down the depth chart.

What Art is saying is that you earn your way up the depth chart. Who was the #3 WR before Gabriel was traded? Whitted. Now Whitted is #2. It makes logical sense. Art is saying you earn your way out of the doghouse, you don't get a free pass.

I just don't see the VERY COLD statements made by Shell about Porter as endorsing Porter's good work habits. I guess you all do. To me Art was telling the press he wasn't discussing Porter's situation, and nothing else. He would have said everyone on the team was working hard and wasn't going to get into one player over another.

Curry brings more to the table than Porter, and Porter brings more than Whitted. Hell I think Morant brings more than Whitted. But that's not the question. The question is who the head coach thinks deserves the start. He's giving Whitted the start for his hard work during the off-season and camp.

You see it all the time, guys not getting a start for discplinary reasons but getting the majority of the snaps. If Whitted remains the starter, and is as ineffective as we suppose he will be, and Porter stays on the bench while Curry and Morant are also ineffective, then we'll know it's a stupid decision.

But right now, none of us has any idea what Art Shell will do, yet some people are jumping to conclusions about the decision itself. It makes perfect sense and is an exclamation point to the whole incident. If Curry and Morant and even Whitted step it up and make Porter expendable, then Porter screwed himself.

Art Shell has to play Porter at least some Monday night, otherwise there's nothing to do but eat crow if the other guys prove ineffective. I don't think they will, but I don't think you leave a weapon unused if you need it for victory. And victory might be measured one game at a time, but there's a season to consider too. If you get the victory Monday, but cannot use Porter if you need to in the future, you screwed the team to prove a point. Of course, you seem to think I endorse that type of thinking. Far from it.

Rupert is being fiesty today. I like