" What If " We don't Draft JaMarcus?

[jatfly]

Ok lets just say for fun.....
So right now the Raiders think JaMarcus is a good QB, but Al isn't sure that he isn't a Top guy in his mind and we have decided not to take him?
We have the First pick over all,
we can deal it take CJ, or AP or what ever.......
My take at this point if we don't Draft JaMarcus, we have to trade Randy because he won't be happy catching passes from A Wal or who ever is here unless we trade for Favre.........two years ago I thought that may happen somehow we are now sending Randy there???
Then the real decision is what to do with the Pick......I would at that point shop the pick, to someone like the Browns or someone that really needs a RB like AP (see the bills or Vikes?)
Drop back, just not out of the top 15 or so we can still get a top notch WR,DE or OL and acquire a second rounder.
The way I see it, if we trade Moss we are now going through a Offensive re-build. Something we haven't done as long as I can remember back.
We would fill at least 3 more holes we have with 3 possible top 40 picks. We could still get a QB and some Line help. Since the WR class is so deep we could even come up with a real threat later in the second or even 3rd.
So we would end up with something like
Walter Starting or Competing with a Carr
and Drafting a legitimate RB, OL DE, TE, and or WR.

 

[Raider Nation]

If they don't take Russell at #1 I would rather they trade back to #4 or #5 and get Quinn plus the extra picks.

If they don't take Russell at #1 but keep the pick, I'd take Johnson and then try to move Moss for whatever pick I could get for him. I'm not an Aaron Rodgers fan, so I would really prefer a 2nd or 3rd round pick instead.

But let me be very clear, I think Oakland should stay at #1 and definitely take Russell. Move Moss if you get a good deal, but they are still $8m under the cap with Moss' salary so they have the cash to sign this year's draft class as is right now or with very little restructuring.

 

[Raidermania12]

If they don't take Russell at #1 I would rather they trade back to #4 or #5 and get Quinn plus the extra picks.

If they don't take Russell at #1 but keep the pick, I'd take Johnson and then try to move Moss for whatever pick I could get for him. I'm not an Aaron Rodgers fan, so I would really prefer a 2nd or 3rd round pick instead.

But let me be very clear, I think Oakland should stay at #1 and definitely take Russell. Move Moss if you get a good deal, but they are still $8m under the cap with Moss' salary so they have the cash to sign this year's draft class as is right now or with very little restructuring.

Nothing as it seems at top of the draft Click here to find out more!

Adam Schefter By Adam Schefter
NFL Analyst


Adam Schefter's "Around the League" reports and commentaries can be seen regularly on NFL Total Access.

(March 14, 2007) -- These days -- and in all the days leading up to the draft April 28-29, really -- intrigue is a one … and a two … and a three.

As in Oakland at No. 1, Detroit at No. 2 and Cleveland at No. 3.
NFL Network video
Adam Schefter

Adam Schefter looks at the decisions facing the teams with the top three draft picks.


Other teams aside from the Oakland Raiders already are calling to schedule private interviews in their cities with LSU quarterback JaMarcus Russell.

Teams that have expressed an interest in meeting and speaking with Russell include the Cleveland Browns and Washington Redskins. Others interested in interviewing him include the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Miami Dolphins, Minnesota Vikings and Detroit Lions.

If any of those teams or any other is enamored enough with Russell -- and Browns general manager Phil Savage could be, as he has known the LSU quarterback for years now -- it could put together a blockbuster package of picks to trade to Oakland for the right to draft No. 1 and Russell.

The Raiders also are enamored with Russell -- they met with him Tuesday night and came away impresed -- but are trapped at No. 1. They cannot risk trading out of No. 1 and still expect to land a franchise quarterback in this draft. It no longer looks as if it will happen.

JaMarcus Russell likely will have to ponder what team he will end up with right up to draft day.
JaMarcus Russell likely will have to ponder what team he will end up with right up to draft day.
Closely monitoring all the behind-the-scenes talks are the Detroit Lions, holder of the No. 2 pick. Fact: The Lions already have had extensive trade discussions with multiple teams about trading out of their draft slot. Those are only going to continue, all the way up to the draft or until a trade is consummated.

One Lions official confirmed Wednesday that the team is willing to listen to offers, and that is receiving many more calls than it is making. At least two of those calls have been from teams in the top 10, trying to trade up and position itself for either Notre Dame quarterback Brady Quinn or Georgia Tech wide receiver Calvin Johnson.

Many speculated that Detroit was sold on Wisconsin offensive tackle Joe Thomas with the No. 2 pick, but the Lions' actions tell an entirely different story. They are hardly wedded to Thomas; they only are committed to getting the best possible value for the No. 2 selection, even if it comes via trade.

This all leaves the Cleveland Browns in a precarious position. Multiple NFL sources said Browns upper management is urging the team to draft a quarterback, with Russell being the top choice, and Quinn being a logical second.

Some within the Browns organization do not want the teams to hold the No. 3 pick and not come away with a potential franchise quarterback.

The Lions know this and it is one reason they are engaged in as many discussions as they are. To ensure themselves a quarterback, the Browns will have to trade up to No. 1 or No. 2 to get him.

As one general manager with a top-10 pick emailed Wednesday: "Cleveland's owner told (the Browns) to draft a QB. … The Lions want it known that they have the pick for Quinn. Minnesota and Houston will have to react. All this Quinn dropping talk is from people who have no clue about the draft."

Until recently, the consensus had been that Oklahoma running back Adrian Peterson would be the surefire No. 3 pick. But the Browns are concerned about some of his running habits, his durability and the value of picking a running back at No. 3 when a quarterback is within their grasp.

So the question then becomes, if Quinn goes in the top three, where does Peterson go? And as great as some NFL personnel people think Peterson has the potential to be, it's possible that he could slide to Atlanta at No. 10 or Buffalo at 12.

Nobody would be any happier about that scenario than the Bills, who traded Willis McGahee to Baltimore and left a huge void at running back. Buffalo now has a big question mark at the position, just like all the talk surrounding the teams with the top three picks in this draft.

Bottom line is this: As free agency cools down, draft talk is heating up. And it is going to stay hot for another six weeks.

the lions are contemplating holding Quinn for ransom and the browns have been instructed to get a qb. I doubt he falls any lower than 3. we trade down, we draft another position.

 

[jatfly]

..........But let me be very clear, I think Oakland should stay at #1 and definitely take Russell. Move Moss if you get a good deal, but they are still $8m under the cap with Moss' salary so they have the cash to sign this year's draft class as is right now or with very little restructuring.

Oh me TOO, the only problem with that is past history tells me Al may not do that and let's be honest he isn't the most predictable guy when it comes to picks.....unless we are talking about Speed guys....We all know somewhere we will get the fastest guy available at some point in the draft.......


I like JaMarcus I am starting to lean to the fact we may not take HIM....I want him but keeping moss and drafting JaMarcus make no sense to me. Randy will F him up if he has throw to him unless he is the next Dan Fin Marino.........

 

[massraider]

If we don't take JaMarcus.................whew.

I am the skipper of the JaMarcus Love Boat, but I would adjust my cap just fine if they took Quinn. If the scouts decide that Quinn is the guy, and they are concerned about Russell for whatever reason, I'm cool with that too. Gotta assume they know more than me.

Where it gets sticky is if we come out of this draft without one of the top two QB prospects.

Because these guys are both good QB prospects. I'm not buying the stuff I've been reading about how these guys would be ranked below this guy and that guy in previous drafts. I certainly remember reading the negatives about last year's QB's:

Leinart: Slow as molasses, average arm at best. Like Vince Young, surrounded by studs.

Young: Might not be bright enough to operate his helmet. Weird throwing motion. Never run a pro offense. Will take years before he's ready.

Cutler: Give me a break. There were people that didn't even think he was a 1st round pick.

You take Leinart, Young, Cutler, Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Quinn, and Russell. When it comes to throwing the ball, it's Russell, and everyone else in that group. He's all by himself. If we're gonna pass on that, we better be sure he can't read defense, and is lazy, and doesn't have a work ethic or whatever. Funny how all of Russell's perceived negatives are things that can't be measured, are based purely on opinion.


So, if we walk away from this draft with Calvin Johnson and a QBOTF in Walter, Rodgers, Stanton, whoever--then that better be the right choice. Because I don't think anyone will second guess the Raiders if they choose to NOT bring in Rodgers as the guy. In other words, if they take Russell, and he doesn't work out, then I give the team a mulligan. They took their shot on the stud QB, and he worked out, or he didn't. But if they get cute, take the WR, and leave QB in the hands of a lesser talent, it's open season if they screw it up.

And I'll say it again: Take the names out of it. Passing on a stud QB for a stud WR is a loser move.

 

[007]

We almost need to go QB in this draft, for two reasons;

1) Its our biggest need;
2) There are two awesome prospects availible right now

I don't buy the argument that these guys are a tier below last years QB's either....

Here is an article about how average Leinart was in his Pro Day...

Meanwhile nobody has ever came along with J-Russ' skill set:

Leinart solid, not great during pro day workout
By Len Pasquarelli
ESPN.com

LOS ANGELES -- If you don't believe the bar is set high for Matt Leinart and also by the Southern California quarterback, well, consider this reality: During the Sunday pro day workouts for the Trojans' 19 draft-eligible players, Leinart completed 80 percent of his passes, 36 of 45 attempts. And at the end of the throwing session, neither Leinart nor his audience was overly impressed with the effort.


Such is life for the 2004 Heisman Trophy winner, who compiled a 37-2 record as a starter, and led his team to two straight national championship game appearances. When you are proclaimed the Golden Boy in the Land of the Stars, and are perceived as having embraced that status by hanging out with the glitterati and being seen in all the city's trendiest night spots, every performance is expected to be 24-karat stuff.

And the weekend throwing session, in front of about 150 NFL scouts and a legion of curious fans who apparently had nothing better to do on a Sunday afternoon than devote four hours to watching future NFL players run around in T-shirts and shorts, wasn't quite up to that standard.


Leinart displayed some athleticism by turning in a 37-inch vertical jump, but he declined to be timed in the 40-yard dash and, like most quarterbacks, didn't participate in the bench-press drill. Of his 45 pass attempts, three were dropped by his receivers and he was wild on several more throws. Four completions were of 30 yards or more, and on one deep route -- to USC tailback Reggie Bush -- the ball was in the air for 60 yards. Leinart's accuracy was good, but not great, and his arm strength was adequate.

It appeared, at times, as though he aimed the ball a bit; some throws sailed wildly on him, and Leinart conceded afterward that he probably pressed a little.


"In situations like these," Leinart said, "I think you tend to overdo it. You know, you try to throw a ball too hard, and it goes high, or you try to be too fine with your passes. I think I started off too tight."


Word is that during a private Monday workout for Tennessee officials -- the team sent a small army to scrutinize him and even provided four Titans wide receivers to run routes and shag passes -- Leinart was much better. The private workout was choreographed by Titans offensive coordinator Norm Chow, who held the same position at Southern California during Leinart's first two seasons as the starter. So, there apparently was a familiarity with what was expected of him and, for sure, less of a circus atmosphere than existed during the pro day spectacle created by Trojans coach Pete Carroll, in part as a recruiting tool.


But on Sunday, truth be told, most scouts left the workouts having not changed their opinions on Leinart very much. Those who liked him when they arrived probably liked enough of what they witnessed in an uneven workout. The doubters probably perceived the same warts.


As Leinart leaned against a concrete wall and told reporters he had "answered all the questions about my arm strength," several scouts were saying that component of his game is still a problem for them. Indeed, several passes wobbled; others lacked NFL-level rpm's; and Leinart didn't exactly drill the ball into the tight windows you get at the next level.


Noted Titans coach Jeff Fisher, rather tellingly: "It was like he was trying hard to complete every ball."

And because of that, it seemed that Leinart never really cut loose, erring instead on the side of caution. Although most of his passes were within the frame of the receiver's body -- it would be unfair to suggest that his pass catchers ran precise routes or laid out for every attempt -- they often lacked the fine accuracy the NFL demands. Some sideline routes, in particular, were thrown over the wrong shoulder or too much into the body of the receiver. And Leinart didn't have the benefit of throwing the collection of slip screens and hitch patterns that are so much a part of the USC design.


If much of that sounds like nitpicking, well, those are the kinds of nits that are picked by scouts, coaches and personnel directors. Teams that are about to invest millions of dollars in a prospect look for every blemish they can find and create some when they don't discern any -- like the contentions by some Sunday that Leinart is a little "too much Hollywood" -- and that is a natural part of the analytical rigmarole that proceeds every draft.

At the same time, it's difficult to ignore Leinart's body of work, including all the big throws he made in so many big games. In three seasons, he completed 807 of 1,245 passes (64.8 percent) for 10,693 yards, with 99 touchdown passes and just 23 interceptions. He threw from the pocket, on half-rolls, on the run. And he consistently exhibited consummate poise (see last year's Notre Dame game) and leadership.


"I don't think you make yourself a player in these kinds of workouts," Leinart said. "You're a player in games, when it counts, when people are keeping score. There's no scoreboard on days like this. Different people take away different things, I'm sure, and that's just part of the process, I guess."


It is a process that has focused on some of Leinart's flaws and shortcomings, no doubt. But it is a process that still hasn't found enough reason to knock him out of the top five in the draft. The question of whether Leinart proves to be a franchise-level quarterback in the NFL, and the suspicion of many is that he won't be, hasn't eclipsed the fact he is still a prospect coveted by many teams.

 

[Chris_77]

I still don't understand why Johnson is so much more of a sure thing than Russell. They both have unprecedented physical talent for their respective positions and both produced big time in college.

What am I missing?

 

[R4Life]

Apples and Oranges

I still don't understand why Johnson is so much more of a sure thing than Russell. They both have unprecedented physical talent for their respective positions and both produced big time in college.

What am I missing?

A wide receiver is asked to do significantly less than a QB.
A QB must manage a game, the players, read defenses, and then perform physically. He must stand up at the end of a tough loss and talk to reporters. He must be active in the community and be attractive to sponsors and toe the NFL line for marketing the sport. A wide receiver may better his play (and fatten his pocketbook) by doing those other things (M. Harrison, J. Rice) but it is never required that they do it, much less touch the ball on every offensive play. An inability to do any one of the elements of quarterbacking will result in a #1 being a labeled a"bust" or at least a "reach".

 

[Limee]

Some general thoughts I have been having about the first pick.

Kiffin is going to be linked to whatever we decide to do with the first pick in the draft. If we decide to draft Russell or Quinn then a part of how he is viewed as a coach will depend on how that pick turns out. I am not saying that if he picks one and they turn out to be a dud then he has no shot to be successful, but I think it will be a factor that people will look at.

Kiffin seems like the son that Al Davis never had and has been given a big say in picking his own coaching staff and has been given a longer than usual deal. Al spoke of his ability to assess talent as a big factor so I am sure he is going to have a lot of input into the direction we go with the top pick. It is also a very important relationship between the coach and his QB. Kiffin has met with Russell and will no doubt meet with Quinn. I assume they will also both be brought in for personal workouts. He would have a decent knowledge of Walter from the PAC 10 and must have spoken with him already. He should also know Rodgers pretty well and would have no doubt discussed him with Tedford. He needs to decide from this who he thinks can be the QB and leader of his offense. Walter, Quinn, Russell, Rodgers or AN Other, by the end of this season we should have a QB in place capable of leading this team to the playoffs in 2008. If we draft Calvin Johnson and his effectiveness is vastly reduced due to poor QB play and either of the rookie QBs makes a solid start to their NFL career then questions will start to be asked. Welcome to the NFL Lane.

 

[Madturk]

So, if we walk away from this draft with Calvin Johnson and a QBOTF in Walter, Rodgers, Stanton, whoever--then that better be the right choice. Because I don't think anyone will second guess the Raiders if they choose to NOT bring in Rodgers as the guy. In other words, if they take Russell, and he doesn't work out, then I give the team a mulligan. They took their shot on the stud QB, and he worked out, or he didn't. But if they get cute, take the WR, and leave QB in the hands of a lesser talent, it's open season if they screw it up.

And I'll say it again: Take the names out of it. Passing on a stud QB for a stud WR is a loser move.

Preach on brother Mass My sentiments exactly. I think drafting the wideout is the worst possible scenario IMO. I'd rather draft AD or trade down before signing CJ. We don't have a lot of options available at QB besides drafting one do we?. I think the Rodgers deal is dead and David Carr doesn't look like he's leaving Houston anytime soon.

I think Jamarcus is the guy barring someone offering Al some ridiculous deal to move up.

 

[SoCalRaider]

Some general thoughts I have been having about the first pick.

Kiffin is going to be linked to whatever we decide to do with the first pick in the draft.

I also think Kiffin's role in the pick is going to be key. Ran into that guy Sean Salisbury out in Tejas this week and he claims that Kiffin is sold on Rogers, even more than he's sold on any of the QBs in the draft... supposedly (no clue where this guy gets his info from now that he's not with ESPN).

... but the interesting thing that came up is Davis isn't afraid to stack up on a position. He's done it at CB and TE on a regular basis. There's no reason to think that Davis won't turn around and draft Russell despite having Rogers and Walters. Just as there's no reason to rule out C.Johnson despite having Curry, Porter, Gabriel.. etc. You can't even rule out a RB by committee approach with Peterson, Jordan, and Rhodes (very similar to what they did at USC with Bush and White).

The only thing we all agreed on is that Kiffin will probably have more influence on this decision than most people would expect.

 

[hawaiianboy]

I also think Kiffin's role in the pick is going to be key. Ran into that guy Sean Salisbury out in Tejas this week and he claims that Kiffin is sold on Rogers, even more than he's sold on any of the QBs in the draft... supposedly (no clue where this guy gets his info from now that he's not with ESPN).

Thanks for the info, it's interesting... Rodgers had some pretty good games against SC and Jeff Tedford is pretty much Kiff's offensive mentor so I can see him having love for Rodgers... It's hard to tell where Rodgers is at now because let's face it, he was going to be stuck behind Farve no matter what he did right up until Farve decides he no longer wants to play anymore, but he was pretty damn good at running that Tedford offense in college.... I just hope that if that rumor is true, that we sell, sell, sell, sell that #1 pick... Trade back a couple of times and either get the young franchise back in Peterson, or get either Gaines Adams or Jamaal Anderson in to rush the passer...


If we're not going to take a QB, I'm really hoping we can land an additional #1 pick in next years draft by trading down.... I'm honestly starting to believe that Kiff may not be comfortable starting his career off with a virgin QB that is going to take time to get the playbook down... I think Rodgers pretty much already knows the framework of what Kiff envisions and he's got a couple of camps under his belt already, and no matter what sweet things Al is whispering right now, I'm sure Kiff is aware that Al's threshhold for coaches that post losing records is historically two years... I can say that under the circumstances, I wouldn't blame Kiff much for thinking that taking the faster short term fix of Rodgers and Calvin Johnson or Peterson would be the prudent thing to do as far as self preservation goes...


BTW as average as I thought Salisbury was at ESPN, I'd rather have him than Paul McGuire... McGuire was awful trying to talk about the draft on NFL Live the other day...

 

[Banter]

Make me wonder if the Moss/Rogers deal is on hold until after the draft simply because we want to keep teams guessing on the #1 pick. I'm hoping Savage goes all Accorsi over Russell.

Hey SoCalRaider. did Salisbury show you his cellphone?

 

[GRaider]

What If " We don't Draft JaMarcus?

The sky will fall, the heavens burn, Satan's legions will pour forth out of the darkness and we will be subjected to "Survivor" reruns for all eternity! At least that is the impression I get from reading some of the posts on Raider boards recently.

 

[BigTron]

It wont be the end of the world, but passing on franchise QB's for postions like WR and FS is painful when you think of QB's like Aaron Brooks, Kerry Collins etc. There are ten of those guys for every Rich Gannon we need to groom our own guy. The messed up part for me is that I actually like Adrew Walter and think he could still be the guy. I wont put my chips on his # and pass another QB on blind faith though.

 

[S and B Executioner]

NOT DRAFT J RUSS?? The HORRAH!!!!!!



Look, I said this before and I'll say it again, There is no harm in letting a still young A Wal battle for the job with a veteran QB like Rogers (if the trade happens) and sign a Joey harrington to a vet minimum deal (knows the tedford/kiffen system) and maybe re-sign Tui as he could fare very well in that offense. Now you have (again, if the rogers/Moss deal happens) AWal, Tui and Harrington at QB, all SOMEWHAT capable in this offensive system and YOUNG by even NFL standards and coachable.

Now, you have Miami, Houston, Cleveland, TB and maybe Detroit all wanting QB's in this draft. Only us and Detroit locked into the prime choice of either Quinn or Russell. The only real logical trade partners are Cleveland and maybe TB. If Jake Plummer could guarantee us he'd play, any trade for #1 would include him, TB's 1st and a mid round pick in this draft (3rd) and a 2nd or 3rd in next years draft. My thought is that Cleveland is the only team with the desire, ammo and DIRECTIVE from above to get a TOP QB in this draft. Al, now with 3 NFl capable (but admitedly not ALL PRO) Qb's, makes the deal and gets Clevelands 2nd and 4th round picks in this draft and maybe a 2nd or 3rd round pick in next years draft.

So, that said, the trade with GB (because Al can still work the magic) gets us GB's 3rd round pick means we have 10 picks. I think we still get a 4th in the comp picks for Woodson, so now we have 11. Do you think we can find some offensive help with 11 picks? If that all plays out, Al goes like this:

With Cleveland taking Russell at one and Detroit taking Joe Thomas or Calvin Johnson we snatch Brady Quinn.

Now we have needs at WR, DE, OL, RB and (believe it or not)CB. I see Al moving BACK into Round One. Packaging the #36 pick (Cleveland) a 3rd (65) and a pick in 2008 to GREEN BAY for the #16 pick and drafting Ma Lynch from Cal. With the rest of the draft we pick up Ryan Harris, OT, Notre Dame.


After that, let the value fall where it may, but I'd love to see the name, LEGGEDU NAANEE in the 4th or 5th round. Kid is fast, big good handed WR from, you guessed it, BOISE ST.


But that is a pretty nice draft and we'd have 4 QB's battling for work.

 

[Limee]

I also think Kiffin's role in the pick is going to be key. Ran into that guy Sean Salisbury out in Tejas this week and he claims that Kiffin is sold on Rogers, even more than he's sold on any of the QBs in the draft... supposedly (no clue where this guy gets his info from now that he's not with ESPN).

That's interesting. It certainly ties up with the Moss to Green Bay trade rumour. It certainly is a huge decision to have to make right off the bat, but that is the nature of the league.

I just hope that if that rumor is true, that we sell, sell, sell, sell that #1 pick...

If we are not going to select the QB then I agree we should be using that pick to get extra picks in this draft and the next. It would also help in that we will not have to pay out quite such a huge bonus and salary.

Make me wonder if the Moss/Rogers deal is on hold until after the draft simply because we want to keep teams guessing on the #1 pick. I'm hoping Savage goes all Accorsi over Russell.

Very good point. Draft day could certainly be very very interesting.

 

[Raidermania12]

There is no harm in letting a still young A Wal battle for the job with a veteran QB like Rogers (if the trade happens)

you do realize they were drafted the same year? Awal is technically more of a vet experience wise.

 

[S and B Executioner]

you do realize they were drafted the same year? Awal is technically more of a vet experience wise.

Okay, so they are both still young and both vets. We still win because we have Quinn and Tui. 4 able QB's battling for the gig.

 

[RaiderIVlife]

I thought Tui signed in Chicago or Carolina?