Thoughts on our Defensive Line

[Crossbones]

Wondering what everybody thinks about the play of our defensive line and what changes, if any, might be in order.

We've been giving up a lot of yardage on the ground, not only to San Diego, considereed now by many to be an elite team, but to the likes of Cleveland and San Francisco.

Seems to me our DT's aren't getting much done in the middle of that line. Sapp and Kelley are getting abused in there most of the time. And while we made two fantastic stops on fourth and one yesterday the rest of the day was pretty miserable. The Niners racked up a lot of yardage on the ground seemingly when en they needed to sans the two fourth down plays.

For me I'd like to see some experimentation. Put Big Terd at tackle and slide Kelly to DE. Along with that maybe give Hawthorne some snaps in place of Warren Sapp. What can it hurt right now?

Our pass rush: It's been kind of non exsistent for the most part. Tyler Brayton is generating almost no QB pressure and Burgess gets in there only occassionally. Lance Johnston has been a non factor in the situational role. Maybe Kelly could apply some pressure from the outside. If I remember correctly he was kind of a beast there last year in spurts.

Thoughts aqnyone?

 

[RaiderIVlife]

I'd be very open to Sands & Hawthorne at DT, but the problem is that we are only 4 deep (Sapp & Kelly) at DT on the entire roster, so I'm not sure that we could slide Kelly to DE if we wanted too.

Yeah, the two 4th & inches stops aside, teams are able to run the ball on us consistently. Very troubling and exactly my single biggest fear going into the season for our defense.

Why was Robert Thomas playing so much yesterday?

 

[Rupert]

The biggest problem is we took a penetrating tackle/power end in Kelly and asked him to become a nose tackle. To his credit, there are plays where he looks really good. Unfortunately, there are plays he looks weak.

I think the scheme also has something to do with it. I notice teams often rack up the yards when we go for gap penetration and send a backer or two. This approach seems better suited to pressuring the pass than stopping the run. The problem is, we don't generate much of a pass rush if we don't gap-charge and blitz.

Yesterday, Turner set us up with lots of screens and swing passes to take advantage of our need to send backers to get pressure, they also told their backs to be patient and ready to cut back if we came gap-charging.

We've done better when we anchor on run defense and let the backers collect the RB at the point of attack. It's what worried me about facing a balanced team, we would have to mix up what the front seven were doing, and I wasn't sure we'd be as effective stopping everything.

I have the same problem RIVL has with moving Kelly back to end, we've only got 4 tackles. Maybe it's not such a bad idea, and I'd be willing to see more of Hawthorne and less of Sapp in some situations.

Regardless, we're running the game with mostly average DL out there (Burgess could be a star with some additional pressure), and the result is hit and miss. When we can concentrate on one thing, we're good. When it's an either or situation, we're hosed.

 

[hawaiianboy]

The biggest problem is we took a penetrating tackle/power end in Kelly and asked him to become a nose tackle.

And Bingo was his name-o... We're finding out the same thing Mississippi St found out when they moved him inside and asked him to two gap... that he's better suited to one gap... Plus that extra 10-15 pounds he's put on this offseason seems to have robbed him of some of his quickness.... I think ideally Sapp would come off the bench on passing/long yardage downs, but as has been said, we're short bodies inside... We could start Kelly at Sapp's undertackle role with Sands as the two gap guy and bring Sapp off the bench I guess, but that doesn't seem likely...

Is it too early to start the draft Alan Branch Jihad?... I'm actually hoping that the Titans dump Haynesworth so we can take a shot at the guy...



On another note, it's unfortunate that Kevin Huntley has been hurt, I think he could have generated more of a pass rush as a situational RE than has Brayton or Johnstone...

 

[Rupert]

I agree on Huntley. He's young and got a fire. He's going to get caught gambling now and then, but he's explosive.

The problem with bringing Sapp off the bench is that he's the defensive leader. Oops.

 

[TommyGirl]

I still want to know what the inside story is on Brentson Buckner.

 

[Crow]

Anyone care to speculate as to why Terd isn't starting yet?

Also, I'm pretty much off the Kelly wagon. Playing the nose is clearly not his strong suit, but with Sapp here, he'd have to go to the bench.

Kelly at end against run heavy teams would make a lot of sense. Hell, Burgess and Brayton aren't getting any pressure. We lose nothing in that regard.

I dunno. I'm just going to keep quiet, I think. Nothing I can do now but countdown to the first ever 0-16 season.

 

[RNorris]

I still want to know what the inside story is on Brentson Buckner.

I'll second that thought.

He was productive for Carolina last year and appeared to only be a salary cap casualty.

So I do wonder why Car hasn't brought him back since their line is not stopping the run well.

And I do wonder why he is still available.

 

[hawaiianboy]

I'll second that thought.

He was productive for Carolina last year and appeared to only be a salary cap casualty.

So I do wonder why Car hasn't brought him back since their line is not stopping the run well.

And I do wonder why he is still available.

I'd forgot all about him... IIRC, Shottenheimer cut him at KC after trading for him because he wasn't the best lockerroom guy, but I don't know if that's a factor... Aside from persuing Larry Allen, we've pretty much avoided older vets in FA altogether this year...


I dunno, but Alan Branch may play his way to overall #1 draft pick status before this years out and the way we're going we may be on a collision course there....


I'm kind of with Crow here in that I'd almost welcome starting Kelly at DE and Terd at DT, then sliding Kelly inside with Sapp on passing downs...

 

[TommyGirl]

I don't know how you forgot about him, considering that I've brought him up at least four times since the advent of free agency.

 

[hawaiianboy]

I don't know how you forgot about him, considering that I've brought him up at least four times since the advent of free agency.

You know I need things repeated ALOT more than that before it sticks.... The Pats released Jonathan Sullivan today... He's fat, should we have a look see?...


Interesting in that the Pats still have one open roster spot even after signing some scrub WR... and they do have an extra 1st round draft pick... Nah... Seeing two of our three top WR's do well in New England would be punishment above and beyond....

 

[RNorris]

I don't know how you forgot about him, considering that I've brought him up at least four times since the advent of free agency.

This is true .......

 

[TommyGirl]

Jonathan Sullivan is fat AND well-coached. Let's have a look-see.

 

[RNorris]

Jonathan Sullivan is fat AND well-coached. Let's have a look-see.

So am I ... and I don't see anyone clamoring for me!

I am lukewarm on Sullivan. From what I have read, he isn't real motivated. We don't really need any more guys like that on the team.

 

[RaiderIVlife]

I agree on Huntley. He's young and got a fire. He's going to get caught gambling now and then, but he's explosive.

The problem with bringing Sapp off the bench is that he's the defensive leader. Oops.

Then play him the first snap of each game so that he get's his "start" and go immediately with Hawthorne/Sands. One would think that Warren Sapp would be open to playing limited downs. It could certainly prolong his career.

 

[Crossbones]

go immediately with Hawthorne/Sands.

I hate to break it to you X's and O's geeks but who do you think came up with this idea? And it wasn't TommyGirl. I mean, I'm just sayin' >

Wondering what everybody thinks about the play of our defensive line and what changes, if any, might be in order.

We've been giving up a lot of yardage on the ground, not only to San Diego, considereed now by many to be an elite team, but to the likes of Cleveland and San Francisco.

Seems to me our DT's aren't getting much done in the middle of that line. Sapp and Kelley are getting abused in there most of the time. And while we made two fantastic stops on fourth and one yesterday the rest of the day was pretty miserable. The Niners racked up a lot of yardage on the ground seemingly when en they needed to sans the two fourth down plays.

For me I'd like to see some experimentation. Put Big Terd at tackle and slide Kelly to DE. Along with that maybe give Hawthorne some snaps in place of Warren Sapp. What can it hurt right now?

Our pass rush: It's been kind of non exsistent for the most part. Tyler Brayton is generating almost no QB pressure and Burgess gets in there only occassionally. Lance Johnston has been a non factor in the situational role. Maybe Kelly could apply some pressure from the outside. If I remember correctly he was kind of a beast there last year in spurts.

Thoughts aqnyone?

 

[TommyGirl]

So am I ... and I don't see anyone clamoring for me!

I am lukewarm on Sullivan. From what I have read, he isn't real motivated. We don't really need any more guys like that on the team.

Well, perhaps "unmotivated" by Belichick's standards is "highly motivated" by Shell's.

 

[Seraph24]

Well, perhaps "unmotivated" by Belichick's standards is "highly motivated" by Shell's.

its sad that that may be true.

 

[Angel]

I hate to break it to you X's and O's geeks but who do you think came up with this idea? And it wasn't TommyGirl. I mean, I'm just sayin' >

Bones...you ever get the feeling you're being ignored??

 

[hawaiianboy]

So am I ... and I don't see anyone clamoring for me!

I am lukewarm on Sullivan. From what I have read, he isn't real motivated. We don't really need any more guys like that on the team.

I haven't been following the guy all that close... anyone know whether the Pats had him on the nose or at DE?... Playing in a 3 man front is real grunt work and not for everyone... I know New Orleans had him over the nose as well.... Maybe he's more suited to playing in a more traditional 4 man front?... Of course that doesn't help us much with Sapp here and us in a over/under DT package... but next year when Sapp is in Indy with Dungy, he could be of rotational use should we utilize the more tradional DT front...


Meh, I feel like I'm reaching here... I think I'll go back to my Alan Branch + Haynesworth dreams...