Raiders laughing stock of the NFL?


Maybe this guy!
Aug 30, 2005
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Yeah I think so. I have visions of people shaking their heads with the side of their mouths turned up. In some ways I think a lot of people around the NFL (even fans) feel a little sorry for the Raiders. It couldn't be more clear at this point that the plan I thought Al had wasn't such a good one after all. Al seems to have this idea that if he waits until "his" head coaching job is the last one available that coaching candidates will come to him on bended knee. It's not happening that way.

Now I don't pretend to know exactly how all these coaching interviews went down but there is a commonality to a lot of what's happened in this coaching search and the last one that netted us Norv Turner. Mysteriously a guy like Denny Green makes a comment about "there are problems in Oakland" but then, of course, the Raiders claim they never offered him the job. The Sean Payton thing was another mystery. Raiders say he was never offered the job. Payton says he wanted to stay in Dallas (funny how he jumped at another opportunity this year). The Mora kid took another job (as fast as he could) before the Raiders could even talk to him. Clearly he wanted no part of the Oakland situation. Whisenhunt and now Petrino -- thanks but no thanks. Even Mike Martz took his name off the table (but yeah I forgot, the Raiders never offered him the job).

We sit here and make excuses that this guy or that guy wasn't the right fit. Seems a few of these guy were the right fit but not in Oakland. Think Whisenhunt wouldn't have jumped at the chance to coach most other teams? I think he would have. The Petrino thing is somewhat of a mystery to me. Apparently he's the guy Al wanted in the first place. That seems clear in that they apparently made him a substantial offer only hours after interviewing Whisenhunt. My guess is that Whisenhunt's somewhat coy personality didn't exactly blow Al's socks off. He's not a Jon Gruden type personality from what I've seen of him. That doesn't mean he couldn't have got the job done but you have to impress Al with aggressiveness I'd say.

Anyway, it's a sad day for the Raiders organization. They're throwing things against the wall and nothing sticks.

Al may pull off some block buster deal with Jimmy Johnson or something like that. It's still possible. In the meantime, the perception about the situation in Oakland continues to be validated with each guy who goes through Oakland.
I don't think you're the laughing stock of the NFL just yet CB :p Hang in there...things can only go up from here, right? :)
Bones: I don't give a shit if we're a laughing stock. Everyone laughing can pound sand. Remember, he who laughs last cried first (that's not how it goes - whatever). Sure we're crying now. BFD. All I think of is all those years the people who are laughing today were crying before. Oh yeah, they weren't crying, they were celebrating in a different color jersey. Like I said, they can pound sand.

From what I've heard, the problem with Petrino, and possibly others before, were the guaranteed years. Sure he was offered a 5-year contract worth $18 million, but only two years of those dollars were guaranteed. Would you leave a cushy college gig for a 2-year guarantee? Me neither.

The question comes down to how much Al Davis REALLY wanted him and how much he BELIEVES in him. Seriously, how do you convince someone you really want them if you have a huge hedge in the contract? How do you drag someone out of a sweetheart deal with oil and vinegar? Maybe they'll roll in the oil, but they'll get bent over the vinegar.

Commitment to Excellence? Yeah, in two year increments. That's not commitment. Imagine if all the wedding contracts had a two year term with optional years. Til death do you part, or two years, whichever comes first. That might increase the money in the wedding chapel business with all those re-affirmations, but who's signing up for that kind of gig?
I don't get it. You don't think the Radiers are the laughing stock of the NFL but then you say "Committment to Excellence? Yeah in two year increments". That is precisely why the Raiders organization is the laughing stock of the NFL. Nobody wants this job...well at least nobody that is considered a top candidate.

The guaranteed money is a huge problem. Plus the fact that the HC isn't going to get to pick his assistants. Let me ask you this...if you were offered a job and told you had to keep the entire staff that would be working under you, what would you do? For a new employee that is a formula for failure. At least you'd want to bring in people who you have had success with before.

No we have an image problem around the league and this is a pattern. Plus it's getting worse and is in the critical stage at this point. The dogs won't eat it.
I didn't say I didn't think we're a laughing stock. I said, "I don't give a shit..."

As far as someone offering me a job where I had to keep the entire staff? I'd take it, just like any other sensible person would. Bones, you've been working for yourself too long. The Director and Deputy Director just turned over here at my job. Guess what? No-one else changed jobs. The new Director and Deputy Director came in with exactly the same people that the old ones had. There's a freaking shock. It's a standard work-place environment. Why should the NFL be any different? Because primadonna coaches have demanded it, and milk-toast owners have allowed it? That's no good reason. What the hell are owners doing hiring coaches they cannot evaluate? If they didn't have a competent staff, was the head coach the one guy to pull it all together? Ridiculous. So if you have a competent staff and fire the head coach, does the rest of the staff all of a sudden become incompetent? Also BS.

Man I don't know what "leaders" are being taught these days, but if you don't know how to work with unfamiliar subbordinates, you shouldn't be in a leadership position. Period. What? GM's new CEO gets to fire everyone and hire all new employees? No. Just the executive staff? No. They don't get to do that. And in some cases that can't even choose their lieutenants. They get hired because they know how to lead and get things done. Quite often there is turnover, but it isn't immediate. I understand the cycle for coaches is different because of the cyclical natue of the sports business, but that doesn't change the fact that good leaders should be able to lead almost anyone.

I don't care what the environment has become. The appropriate method for leaders to follow is to evaluate your subbordinates before passing judgement. These cowardly head coaching candidates don't know how to lead, and that's why they keep failing.
But if you can't week out the lousy employees (coaches in this case) you're chances of success are terrible.

I know what you're saying in the general work environment but you have to admit the NFL is different and it doesn't matter what the reason for that is. Coaches (and mangers in the general work place) want to pick their employees sooner or later. Knowing that you will never be allowed to is not a safe feeling.

...and BTW, shut up. :p
I think we are the laughing stock just because of fans reactions, I have really held my head low not getting anyone that I feel comfortable in coaching this team or even thinking about some hot names that are gone because they coach defense. The way it's going right now, it would have almost been better to keep Norv Turner, since it's apparently clear we had no real plan in effect just like with Callahan or Mike White's firings.

To be one of the select 32 coaches in the NFL should be an honor, but for a franchise that has had a winning tradition, people seem to avoid us like the plague.

New coach, new QB=better attitude
We are going to cause a future hall of famer in Randy Moss to hang the cleats early because of this crap.
Well, look. Here's how I'd approach the Raiders HC job given the circumstances we're led to believe:

Al Davis: Shoop is your OC and Ryan is you DC. Do you want the job?
Rupert: Let me talk to them before I decide.
Al: Talk to them or not, they're the guys.
Rupert: Alright. If I take the job, and they prove incapable or unwilling to do the job I think they need to, can I replace them the following year?

Depending upon what Al says next, it's either a workable situation or it isn't. If I have a set of criteria for evaluating their performance, and the old man agrees to that criteria, we'll both have a way of making our case after the season. Additionally, I'll have specific points I can address during the off-season and the season itself. Any head coach that does not outline that type of personnel evaluation (even in rough form) is not really prepared for a long-term gig.

All of this is just like the real world. Additionally, the head coach should also be prepared to lose their guy at some point. New England lost both coordinators last year and they were pretty sorry for a while. Then they started getting better. Do you think Belichick had an evaluation and development plan? I do. Without giving your subordinates the proper feedback, they cannot know whether they're doing the job you need them to or not. With the proper feedback, they know where they stand, what they need to improve, and what it is you want from them.
Regarding picking your own guys. Didn't Al let Turner bring in Jim Colletto?
I'm with Rupert on this one. I couldn't give a rats ass what the rest of the NFL thinks about the Raiders. Al Davis obviously doesn't either. Al has never gone by "the book" and even though there are plenty of folks clamoring for him to get on board with the rest of the NFL, there aren't any guarantees that we'll end up holding the Lombardi trophy if we do. There have been what 9 new head coaches hired this off season so far. All were hired by "the book". They all chose their coordinators and other assistants. My guess is that 6 of them will be fired within 3-4 years. Maybe more. It just doesn't matter how we hire a new coach, just that he gets the job done.
Is Al Davis a god?

Rupert said:
I didn't say I didn't think we're a laughing stock. I said, "I don't give a shit..."
And after listening to Al Davis yesterday and the reasons he hired Art Shell I understand where you're coming form now. I agree.

I stand corrected. Just because the media or the fans think a particular coach is a "can't miss" doesn't mean jack shit. There are no guarantees in this business. Al's example(s) was right on point.
The media brainwashes the fans of other teams into thinking we are a sorry butch. One example is that they say we have never paid a head coach $2 million. Since moving back to Oakland, we haven't had any head coaches that merit that money. Al gave them their first chance and they failed...Bugel, Callahan, White, and Turner.

When we did have a head coach that showed results (Gruden), Al was willing to pay him $3 million per year.

With Petrino, Al saw something in him that he liked very much. Al was willing to pay him the $3 million per year.

There are other examples as we all know.

It doesn't bother me because we will have our day when Shell wins us our Super Bowl.
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