QB poll tied in with taking CJ at 1...

[hawaiianboy]

Since the Calvin Johnson at #1 bandwagon seems to be picking up some steam, I'm trying to wrap my head around it and reach some kind of comfort zone... I still believe taking a WR at 1 with no established QB is putting the jackass before the cart, but putting that aside and assuming Al wants the kid at one, what would be your LONG TERM choice at QB with CJ now able to leap tall buildings wearing a Raider uni???...

 

[Madturk]

Actually, I still think if we choose to bring in McCown we should still draft a QB in the 2nd or 3rd if we go the CJ route. I'm warming up to the possibiity of Drew Stanton.

 

[RHC]

Aaron Rodgers still has a ton of upside. If Losman can pull himself out of the muck Rodgers can too. Easily the best LONG TERM solution on the table. Plus it gets rid of Moss, saves our 2nd-rounder and gets us CJ. Rodgers/CJ/Porter/Curry/Gabe >>> Russell/Moss/Porter/Curry/Gabe

We can take Brian Leonard or OL in the 2nd, then pick Ben Patrick or BPA QB in the 3rd.

 

[massraider]

Cripes, those options just stengthened my JaMarcus resolve.

I voted McCown.

 

[jatfly]

How about trade for McCown and draft another guy or trade for Rodgers too,,,,,then let the best man win best win......Walter, McCown or Rodgers

 

[Jack's sore libido]

The key phrase is long-term.

 

[Chris_77]

Every other option blows.

We'd have no choice but to hope for another shot at a top rated QB in next years draft.

Of course, everyone would pick those guys apart until they were nothing but 2nd day scrubs with no future in the league as well...

 

[donovan]

Troy Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drew Stanton

It's only two inches. It's more how you use the size you got.........

 

[massraider]

Troy Smith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Drew Stanton

It's only two inches. It's more how you use the size you got.........

Your girlfriend is lying to you. I am sorry.

 

[YodasBeast]

I think Jat has the right idea with trading for McCown and letting him, Walter and a rook fight for the spot.

 

[TheNextStep]

I still like Andrew Walter, but he's used up his "still learning the game" free pass at this point.

I think Josh McCown's upside peaks at "mediocre."

I think Aaron Rodges sucks.

I think Duante Culpepper is damaged goods who won't ever recapture his previous glory.

I think Jake Plummer is retired and should stay that way - in the middle of a playoff run, he got benched for a rookie. Think about that.

Joey Harrington has been given plenty of chances and could never capitalize on them.

Tim Rattay would make a nice backup somewhere but is no long term answer.

I'm not particularly thrilled with any of the lower rated quarterbacks enough to call them a long term answer to anything.

So... my answer is:

Brian Brohm next year, after drowning my sorrows about our offensive ineptitude for another season.

 

[Madturk]

Thanks for the bright ray of sunshine Stepper. Man I feel like I did after watching the Elephant Man for the first time.

 

[massraider]

Brian Brohm next year, after drowning my sorrows about our offensive ineptitude for another season.

Nah, next year it'll be, "No need to take Brohm, QB's take too long to develop. Let's get a vet QB. Plus, we took Kolb last year, I'd really like to see what he can do. We should give him a shot. If he doesn't work out, then we can take Jimmy fucking Clausen in 2010."

 

[Jack's sore libido]

Nah, next year it'll be, "No need to take Brohm, QB's take too long to develop. Let's get a vet QB. Plus, we took Kolb last year, I'd really like to see what he can do. We should give him a shot. If he doesn't work out, then we can take Jimmy fucking Clausen in 2010."

On the other hand, if we were to take Russell this year and Calvin Johnson blows up for someone else, it'll be:

"This is why you don't take a QB until you've already built your OL. This team has ruined JaMarcus. He's another Akili Smith. Another Ryan Leaf. Another Joey Harrington. Another David Carr. Look at the Bengals. They did it right. They drafted Levi Jones in the top 10, had Willie Anderson in place, grabbed Rudi Johnson and Chad Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh, THEN they finished it off with Carson Palmer and didn't get him killed and demoralized.

"Look at the Colts. They did it right. They drafted Marvin Harrison, then Tarik Glenn and Adam Meadows, THEN grabbed Peyton Manning so he wouldn't get killed or demoralized. And even then they didn't win until they got Edgerrin James."

And if the Raiders draft Russell and he's actually able to stay upright behind that line, people will say:

"Look at the Raiders. They did it right. They signed Moss and LaMont, developed Porter and Curry, drafted Gallery and Grove and Boothe and McQuistan, THEN finished it off with JaMarcus Russell and didn't get him killed or demoralized."

In other words, hindsight is 20/20, and the way these guys perform -- regardless of who the Raiders draft -- will be the ONLY way to judge the way the team is built.

 

[massraider]

It's not hindsight, Jack, it's the MO for the last several years. There is a crew that never wants to take a shot on a top rookie QB, no matter what. And they won't want one next year, no matter what. They have Rich Gannon, Tom Brady, and the 2000 Baltimore Ravens as all the proof they need.

No matter what Russell and CJ do, they won't want a QB in the 1st. Because frankly, if someone isn't ready to take a shot on a QB after Rivers, Ben, Vince, Leinart, and Cutler, they never will. 1st round QB's have a darn good record lately.


It doesn't matter which QB is coming out, there'll always be a Tuiasosopo, or Walter, or McCown, or frigging Dreisbach, or someone else that ain't proved squat, that they'll want to 'give a chance' to.

I expect CJ to be stud, from Day 1. Why wouldn't he? And I'll be happy with him. But I am really not looking forward to the hype surrounding whatever 2nd tier QB we take. Have you noticed we've heard and read nothing but great things about Kevin Kolb, Drew Stanton, and Trent Edwards lately? it's because they haven't been analyzed to death already.

Holy Christ, if Tui got a 5 or 6 year pass, and never did anything, can you imagine if we took Troy Smith in the 4th round? Everyone loves the backup QB, but if ours was Troy Smith, the hysteria would make Tui-mania look like the common cold.

 

[BigTron]

Nah, next year it'll be, "No need to take Brohm, QB's take too long to develop. Let's get a vet QB. Plus, we took Kolb last year, I'd really like to see what he can do. We should give him a shot. If he doesn't work out, then we can take Jimmy fucking Clausen in 2010."

Exactly if Kiffin cant coach the guy he drafts to be a good QB and gets him killed then we are screwed with Kiffin as HC. SO we might as well draft a QB and let our coach do his thing. IT will also prove Al Davis is letting Kiffin build a foundation for long term success. I think its the perfect time for a young franchise QB gamble. We have 1 decent QB on the roster who has a history of injuries and is coming off a very poor season. A young HC in his first year in the NFL. A young team that is trying ot bounce back to .500 and above. We can gamble right now because next year will most likely not end in the playoffs no matter what we do in the draft.

 

[Madturk]

With two of his former receivers slated to go high in the draft, I'm not sure if CJ would be Kiff's choice. I'm thinking JRuss would buy Kiffen two years with all that would be invested in him. He'd probably have a longer leash unless he totally fuggs up like his predecessor Shell. If CJ's the pick, then I'd have to say that's a typical Al knee jerk pick.

 

[Turo]

It's not hindsight, Jack, it's the MO for the last several years. There is a crew that never wants to take a shot on a top rookie QB, no matter what. And they won't want one next year, no matter what. They have Rich Gannon, Tom Brady, and the 2000 Baltimore Ravens as all the proof they need.

No matter what Russell and CJ do, they won't want a QB in the 1st. Because frankly, if someone isn't ready to take a shot on a QB after Rivers, Ben, Vince, Leinart, and Cutler, they never will. 1st round QB's have a darn good record lately.


It doesn't matter which QB is coming out, there'll always be a Tuiasosopo, or Walter, or McCown, or frigging Dreisbach, or someone else that ain't proved squat, that they'll want to 'give a chance' to.

I expect CJ to be stud, from Day 1. Why wouldn't he? And I'll be happy with him. But I am really not looking forward to the hype surrounding whatever 2nd tier QB we take. Have you noticed we've heard and read nothing but great things about Kevin Kolb, Drew Stanton, and Trent Edwards lately? it's because they haven't been analyzed to death already.

Holy Christ, if Tui got a 5 or 6 year pass, and never did anything, can you imagine if we took Troy Smith in the 4th round? Everyone loves the backup QB, but if ours was Troy Smith, the hysteria would make Tui-mania look like the common cold.

It seems a bit odd to me to not want to develop young QB talent, yet want to draft, draft and draft more young QB talent until we magically find one that will be a star from day one? Consider:

If we had drafted Matt Lienart, Vince Young or Jay Cutler last year and they got obliterated to the tune of 72 sacks, several hundred QB hits and a 2-14 record, you'd be calling for us to draft Jamarcus Russell or Brady Quinn this year? Or, would you be saying that they really should have a little extra time to develop and prosper in a modern NFL offensive scheme... ? You can't have it both ways, bro. If the difference is 'money' that a first-round pick would be making versus our relatively cheap third rounder (who was only a third rounder because of his senior-year shoulder injury), then we're only arguing the difference between being fucked financially or not.. and not arguing about the ability for either QB to succeed and win games. Therefore, that's irrelevant. So, what's it going to be? Develop young QB talent or no? Draft a new first round QB every year until one posts a winning record, no excuses for anyone, whatsoever?

Hey, I'm just sayin' is all..

Late,

~T.

 

[hawaiianboy]

Nah, next year it'll be, "No need to take Brohm, QB's take too long to develop. Let's get a vet QB.

I'm not a big Brohm fan myself, but it's not real hard to imagine Darren McFadden playing the role of CJ and Brohm/Andre Woodson playing the roles of Quinn/JaMarcus in next years draft arguments... Of course, that would mean we sucked and are picking in the top 5 again, which I'm not a big fan of....


Basically for me, Russell/Quinn + say Sydney Rice > CJ + Drew Stanton, but we'll see what happens... With two ex-QB's at the head coach/O-coordinator spots, a new offense being put in place and a fresh feel to everything with the Kiffin hire, I really can't see a better time to plant and grow a QB...


As far as the poll, I'd choose the trade for Rodgers myself... It kills two birds with one stone... It serves to move Moss and pave the way for CJ and it brings in a young QB that is relatively familiar with Kiff's system...


Ideally for me at least, I'd rather draft JaMarcus, dump Moss for a draft pick, send a late pick to the Lions for BMW and manuever up from our second pick for either a TE or Lynch... but I have a feeling we'll take CJ and end up hoping that Walter can pull himself out of the gutter with a change in systems much the way Brees did in his 4th year in San Diego...

 

[hawaiianboy]

It seems a bit odd to me to not want to develop young QB talent, yet want to draft, draft and draft more young QB talent until we magically find one that will be a star from day one?

Should drafting Justin Fargas in RD 3 preclude us from drafting Adrian Peterson this year?... Should drafting McQuistan in RD3 prevent us from drafting Joe Thomas?... Should drafting Sam Williams in RD3 prevent us from drafting another strongside backer?... How's any of that different than drafting a QB just because we took Walter in RD3 a few years ago...


Third round picks are developmental picks IMO, if they hit fine, if not they're depth and you move on...