OT: What??? Raider Nation has no opinion on the Patriots and Spy Gate?

donovan

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Reminds me of the scene in Pulp Fiction: "Marvin, you've GOTTA have an opinion on this..."

Well? What should they get? How big a deal? Is this new technological twist on spying substantially different from the mythologized stories about Al doing things back in the day? (If you buy into those...)

Read some guys' thoughts at the K but not a whole lot, and no word of it here. Wondering what some of you thought.

I thought people were making too big a deal of it recently but now that more seems to be coming out about them messing with headsets and frequences, several times, I think it's more serious than I thought.

I say: a million bucks, Belichick for four games, and three third-round picks.
 
Reminds me of the scene in Pulp Fiction: "Marvin, you've GOTTA have an opinion on this..."

Well? What should they get? How big a deal? Is this new technological twist on spying substantially different from the mythologized stories about Al doing things back in the day? (If you buy into those...)

Read some guys' thoughts at the K but not a whole lot, and no word of it here. Wondering what some of you thought.

I thought people were making too big a deal of it recently but now that more seems to be coming out about them messing with headsets and frequences, several times, I think it's more serious than I thought.

I say: a million bucks, Belichick for four games, and three third-round picks.



I think Money is no object in the NFL, especially for a dude with the last name Kraft....so he sells a few more millions worth of cheese and its a drop in the bucket. I do like your idea of suspension and draft picks though. The NFL needs to draw the line in the sand now....You cheat, you get penalized big.

Caught Cheating, You lose:
1st, 2nd and 3rd round pick for the following year.
Coach Suspended X amount of games.
If the team won, they gets switched to a Loss and the other team a W.
 
Coach suspended 1 game
Lose one 4th round pick
 
Tuck rule over turned...Raiders awarded 3 superbowls.
 
2nd and 5th round picks the next year.
 
It turns out that the Pats and Belichick get fined some money. The Pats lose a 1st round pick if they make the playoffs and a 2nd & 3rd round pick if they don't.

Personally, fuck that. You get caught cheating like that, you lose. Period. They ought to award the game to the Jets and let the Pats keep their money and draft pick. Believe me, an automatic loss in the event of getting caught would be a better deterrent.
 
Sideline Spying: N.F.L. Punishes Patriots’ Taping
By JUDY BATTISTA

The National Football League fined New England Patriots Coach Bill Belichick $500,000 yesterday, and the team will forfeit its first-round draft pick in 2008 if it makes the playoffs, for violating league rules Sunday when a Patriots staff member was discovered videotaping signals by Jets coaches during the season opener at the Meadowlands.

The Patriots will be fined $250,000. If they fail to make the playoffs, they will forfeit their second- and third-round picks in 2008.

“This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,” Commissioner Roger Goodell wrote in a letter to the Patriots.

N.F.L. policy prohibits the videotaping of an opposing coach’s signals, and no team has ever been caught spying before. Last year, the N.F.L.’s executive vice president of football operations, Ray Anderson, sent a memo to all teams reminding them of the rule. The memo is believed to have been generated in part by suspicions that the Patriots had videotaped coaches at several games last season.

The harsh personal punishment for Belichick, the largest ever for a coach and the league maximum, is a clear rebuke to a coach who, after winning three Super Bowls in the last six years, is considered among the best ever, but whose aloof style has earned him plenty of detractors.

The day before the punishment was handed down, Belichick seemed to acknowledge wrongdoing without admitting it. He said in a statement, “Although it remains a league matter, I want to apologize to everyone who has been affected, most of all ownership, staff and players.”

Goodell said yesterday that he did not believe that the Patriots’ owner, Robert K. Kraft, was aware of Belichick’s actions. But Goodell penalized the franchise anyway, because, he said, Belichick has “substantial control over all aspects of New England’s football operations.”

No team has ever had to forfeit a first-round draft pick.

The impact of losing high draft picks could damage the franchise for years and could outlast Belichick’s tenure as head coach. His contract status is a tightly held secret. Nobody is even sure if he is signed past this season, and Kraft and Belichick have both danced around the question of how long Belichick would stay on.

During his investigation, Goodell determined that because the tape was seized before the end of the first quarter Sunday, it did not have an impact on the Patriots’ victory over the Jets. But Goodell said that the N.F.L. would now closely monitor the Patriots’ coaching video program.

“I specifically considered whether to impose a suspension on Coach Belichick,” Goodell wrote. “I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension.”

and

Jon Gruden Stole Signs in the Super Bowl -- That Was OK, Bill Belichick Is Different


Michael David SmithPosted Sep 12th 2007 2:56PM by Michael David Smith
Filed under: Buccaneers, Jets, Patriots, Raiders
King Kaufman of Salon.com writes today about the Bill Belichick controversy and sign stealing in sports:

The Patriots may have been trying to steal the Jets' signals for immediate or future use, but there's nothing wrong with stealing signals. It's a fine and respectable art. If it weren't, teams wouldn't need signals that are coded.

Kaufman is right, and in fact I believe the single greatest coaching job I've ever seen was done by Jon Gruden in Super Bowl XXXVII. Gruden had previously coached the Raiders, and the Raiders were continuing to run the offense Gruden ran in Oakland. So Gruden taught his Buccaneers defense everything the Raiders did offensively, including audible calls. That's a form of sign stealing.

But it's a legal form of sign stealing. What the Patriots apparently did -- videotape the Jets' signals -- is illegal. If the Patriots don't like the rule, they could have gone to the league's competition committee in an attempt to change the rule. Instead, they just decided to flout the rule.

So, to summarize: Sign stealing can be great coaching, as it was when Jon Gruden did it to the Raiders. But it can also be cheating, as it was when Bill Belichick did it to the Jets. It's all about whether you're stealing signs within the confines of the league's rules.
 
That is freakin awesome. Much love to all who create and distribute.. Everyone needs to hear this.
 
I know I am going to catch heat, but wtf. What is really the big deal here? Sure they got busted and they cheated. It sucks and they got punished for it. I said it at KFFL, but do we as a franchise really have a leg to stand on with regards to calling someone out for cheating?

I do think it is bad, but I also think it is getting blown way out of proportion cause of how good the Pats have been as of late. Everyone wants the top dogs to fall and enjoys watching them go down in flames.


Now, I am going to duck out back before I get beat down. Seeya.
 
I expect this talk from a weed smoker who uses the name of a guy who obviously took steroids to get an unfair advantage in Wrestling. :p

Seriously you're entitled to your opinion, but I think that if you treat everybody else harshly when they cheat. do the same for the patriots.
 
Do you think BB is smart? Yeah, me too. Well, that smart guy thought video was such a big deal that he was willing to ignore the rules, and the memo, in order to gain this advantage. If BB thinks it is a big deal, that is good enough for me.
 
but do we as a franchise really have a leg to stand on with regards to calling someone out for cheating?

We also don't have a leg to stand on as far as performance enhancer use and DUI busts, should that mean we can't call out Rodney Harrison and Shawn Merriman for their drug abuses or Jared Allen for his DUI suspension?... Nothing wrong with finding pleasure in another franchises pain...

Don't let the offseason pajama sleepovers and favorite Village People discussions you have with rival fans throw you off the game man... :nono:


I do think it is bad, but I also think it is getting blown way out of proportion cause of how good the Pats have been as of late.

I don't think so... The Pats getting a competitive edge by doing something questionable is no different than the Donx O-line spraying their jerseys with Pam or fudging Elway's contract to circumvent the cap... As far as I'm concerned, if you can get away with it more power to you because I subscribe to the 'by any means necessary' approach to winning, but if you get caught you certainly deserve the penalties and all the mocking that will come your way... This is no different than the commish clipping us a week of practice for having too much contact during non-contact camps... Caught is caught...

I don't understand why this isn't viewed as a big deal by some... It really doesn't take much time to review what's on digital tape during halftime break or even a timeout... All a coach needs is something simple like the signal for what coverage the safeties or corners will be sitting in on a given play to get an edge and relay it to Brady's helmet on a play by play basis... Brady is hard enough to deal with without giving him a corked bat on top of everything...

I'm a bit surprised the commish acted as quickly as he did, but screw Saint Belichick, the Pats, and their midgit pornstache wearing fans and the minature ponies they rode in on... The only thing that would have made this better if it was one of the AFC West teams that got popped...

That said, I hope the bastards use this as motivation to destroy the Chargers this weekend... After that the football God's can feel free to crap on their season and blowout Moss's hamstring...
 
For the record, I am fine with the penalty they got and feel it was decent.

I am also not condoning cheating, though it only counts if you get caught. :D


I do think it is extreme the level of backlash they are getting. That is all I am trying to get at.


I will also say this. If the Pats all of a sudden tank the rest of this season, then I might rethink their legacy.


P.S. Maybe some of my "sympathy" towards the Pats being kicked so much when they are down is due to how it has felt for me being a Raider fan these last few years. :eek:
 
If the kind of "cheating" New England did wasn't a common practice, why do all offenses encode their play calls? Why do defenses encode their play calls? For me it comes down to what means are you going to use to prevent your signals from being decoded? Maybe it's time the MLB got a receiver in his helmet like the QB has, and the same restrictions on traffic are used.

The QB helmet system was supposed to be for better communication, but it also created a more secure method of transferring the play. It's time the system was extended to the defense. It only makes sense.
 
That said, I hope the bastards use this as motivation to destroy the Chargers this weekend... After that the football God's can feel free to crap on their season and blowout Moss's hamstring...


I totally, totally agree with this, and in fact, wouldn't be at all surprised to see it play out this way--
 
I thought the punishment fit the crime but I do have some minor objections...

Wade Wilson buys HGH becuase he's a diabetic and is having "performance" problems with the wife and he gets suspended 4 games... Belichick cheats, openly cheats after being warned by the league (all 32 teams were warned) and he doesn't even get a game? He should have got at least 4 games plus the fine.

My other bone of contention is the draft pick penalty. So if you win and do well (i.e. playoffs... i.e. revenue for the NFL) we'll dock you a 1st round pick. But if you don't make the playoffs (i.e. rob the NFL of the lucrative Colts/Pats matchup) we'll take 2 picks from you? Does Not Compute. The Pats have 5 picks in the first 3 rounds next year (Two 1st's, a 2nd, and two 3rd's). Take a 1st and a 3rd and be done with it.

I think the message sent will be received league-wide as nobody wants to be fined a half a million dollars and then lose a draft pick. But if the penalty handed out was $250K for the team and the coach, loss of a 1st and a 3rd round pick, and a head coach suspension of 4 games I'm pretty confident nobody would ever try to pull this shit again.
 
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