Offseason Decision #1

[Madturk]

What's with all the projects? I'm fuckin' sick of this shit. Go get a football player who plays the damn position. Randall Williams? Fuck him. We're wasting our time. Got way bigger fish to fry.

Preach on Brotha Bones!!!. Point is whether he's playing at 220 or 270, he still can't catch the damn ball.

 

[Rupert]

JMO, but putting 10 more pounds on Williams will have him on whirlpool watch... He already has the constant hamstring/lower back problems associated with someone carrying more weight than his fast twitch sprinters frame is built for... If we're insistent on blowing up a WR and making him a TE, the best candidate would probably be Johnnie Morant... He's got the build of a guy that could carry 240 pounds pretty naturally IMO, not to mention his genetics are a weight room match to say the least....

That said, I'd much rather go and get a full grown TE... Let guys like Williams and Madsen play at their comfortable, natural weight at their natural positions....

True, true, I forgot about the back and hammy problems. That does limit him a bit. I know about some of those adding weight issues and it isn't about frame limitations so much as building the synergists as well as the prime movers. Looks like his workout regime was lacking proper balance. Those issues can be corrected, but yeah, I'd hold off more weight because of them. Looks like he's topped out.

 

[Rupert]

What's with all the projects? I'm fuckin' sick of this shit. Go get a football player who plays the damn position. Randall Williams? Fuck him. We're wasting our time. Got way bigger fish to fry.

Projects are part of the game. Did we say fuck Lester Hayes because he was a college linebacker? No. Did San Diego say fuck Antonio Gates because he didn't play college football? No.

I agree, don't build your team with projects, but a certain amount of position switching is going to happen. A guy who has to play corner because his team needs him to might be better suited to safety, and other such things happen in college. But the bottom line is, most of them have enough football smarts to do it. Some of the guys we pick up, well...

I don't think we're wasting our time with Williams, but I'd say we're off the mark if we're banking on him being THE guy. He's a pass-catching TE and he's dropped enough to make me wonder if he can clean that up. I'm willing to give him one more pre-season. I don't see what that hurts.

 

[Madturk]

I don't think we're wasting our time with Williams, but I'd say we're off the mark if we're banking on him being THE guy. He's a pass-catching TE and he's dropped enough to make me wonder if he can clean that up. I'm willing to give him one more pre-season. I don't see what that hurts.

David Dunn was released for a lot less. Sooner or later these guys have to show some accountability.

As far as the Antonio Gates analogy, that is the proverbial needle in the haystack, besides our recent track record with these project types has been less than stellar. I'm with Bones here. Let's bring in a bonafide TE like a Dan Graham or Eric Johnson and draft a Zach Miller. We've sucked at TE way too long.

 

[Rupert]

David Dunn was released for a lot less. Sooner or later these guys have to show some accountability.

As far as the Antonio Gates analogy, that is the proverbial needle in the haystack, besides our recent track record with these project types has been less than stellar. I'm with Bones here. Let's bring in a bonafide TE like a Dan Graham or Eric Johnson and draft a Zach Miller. We've sucked at TE way too long.

Actually, David Dunn was a turnover machine.

I disagree. Position changes and random athletes are becoming more and more common in the NFL. It's not necessarily a trend I like, but it's a fact of the professional scene. We went conservative recently and watched the Randle-El's and Drew Bennett's and Antonio Gates's pass us by. Are we working the right guys now? Time will tell. It's not as "needle in the haystack" as you make it out to be though.

 

[hawaiianboy]

I disagree. Position changes and random athletes are becoming more and more common in the NFL. It's not necessarily a trend I like, but it's a fact of the professional scene. We went conservative recently and watched the Randle-El's and Drew Bennett's and Antonio Gates's pass us by. Are we working the right guys now? Time will tell. It's not as "needle in the haystack" as you make it out to be though.

The problem I have is we're not just doing a single position change, we've currently got 3 WR's (Williams, Madsen, Adkisson) that we're trying to morph into TE's... Burning three roster spots in the attempt to find one gem isn't a luxury a struggling team can afford IMO, especially since this was supposed to be a TE heavy offense featuring alot of two TE sets...

I have no problem with trying to convert a Ronald Curry to a new position when you've got Brown, Rice and Porter to put out there in the meanwhile... or trying to convert a Bing when we've got a stable of other backers... but it seems like we've been so busy trying to find the next Antonio Gates that we've forgotten the importance that guys like Aaron Shea and Brandon Manumaleuna play in the big picture...

If Al wants to have a single WR with freak size and skills like Adkisson on the roster to try and convert, that's fine with me so long as he stocks the roster with a grunt type TE like Daniel Graham to go along with Courtney and said TE/WR experiment...

Personally, I think Williams best value to us was strictly as a 215 pound special teams demon and that John Madsen should be a slot WR... Adkisson as a TE project does intrigue me though....

JMO..

 

[Crossbones]

I'd love to see the Raiders scap this crap of trying to convert Maddsen to a TE. He looks like a WR and seems to operate like one. To me looks like we need some WR's right now.

This is nothing new. It's the Raiders trying to reinvent the past. Christensen comes to mind. The sooner this franchise gets into game of 2006 the better off we'll be. What worked 30 years ago obviously doesn't work in today's NFL very often. Again it['s the only way Al knows how to operate. It's what worked for him 25-30 years ago.

Randall Williams? Get rid of that clown.

 

[hawaiianboy]

Jerry Mac's thoughts on the last 4 games:

Dec 05 2006

Fourth-quarter evaluations

Posted by Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer on Tuesday at 8:36 pm

With the final quarter of the season left to play some players the Raiders ought to be seriously evaluating in terms of the 2007 roster:

– RB ReShard Lee. They know what Zack Crockett can do. They’ve got a long look at Justin Fargas. Lee’s fumble was huge in the 23-14 loss to Houston, but his 99 total yards, including 5 receptions for 57 yards, were intriguing.

Put him to work. Give him 15 to 20 carries and a handful of passes and see what happens.

– DE Kevin Huntley. Lance Johnstone has been battling nagging injuries and even before then has been a step late _ the sure sign of age. He had a nice career. Huntley was batting down passes in training camp and was impressive as a third-down end against Houston.

The Raiders might consider letting him play even more, taking some of Tyler Brayton’s snaps.

– OL Paul McQuistian. Remember way back when McQuistan was a starter, touted by Raiders insiders as the next Steve Wisniewski or Kevin Gogan? He was the worker bee with a mean streak.

McQuistan lost his job to Kevin Boothe, who has had a promising season for a sixth-round pick out of Cornell. McQuistan should move in somewhere for some quality time in the last four games _ perhaps at right tackle, replacing Langston Walker.

– LT Robert Gallery. Not that he won’t be on the roster, but they really need to give Gallery as many snaps as possible to try and get some small amount of progress from an awful season. And also to determine whether his future is at left tackle or moving inside to guard.

– WR Randy Moss. If they can actually get him in the end zone a few times, figure out a way to have an old-style 7 catch, 150-yard game, maybe they’ll find a trade partner in the offseason.

You could say the same for Jerry Porter, but that ship apparently sailed into an iceberg long ago.

– TE John Madsen. Play him a lot. Throw him the ball. Try and determine whether he’s really a tight end or a hybrid who will play only in special situations. Maybe he’s an Ed McCaffrey type of wide receiver, as staffer Bill Soliday noted a few weeks ago.

The Raiders, of course, seem to shun those possession types. It didn’t used to be that way in the days of Fred Biletnikoff and Bob Chandler.

Whatever the Raiders do, they shouldn’t pack the pounds on Madsen they did on Randal Williams.

Note that all but one of those players are on offense, because the Raiders shouldn’t tinker with the defense at this point. Let them grow together and finish strong in terms of stats and performance, even if they don’t the payoff in victories.

There are a few things I’d like to see in terms of the future. Michael Huff playing deep in the middle of the field and more snaps from Stanford Routt come to mind. But the main objective should be allowing the defense to finish strongly enough to go into the offseason believing it can be a truly elite unit next season.

Offensively, it isn’t as if any changes are going to jeopardize chances at a victory.

Mix and match with an eye toward the future.

 

[Rupert]

The problem I have is we're not just doing a single position change, we've currently got 3 WR's (Williams, Madsen, Adkisson) that we're trying to morph into TE's... Burning three roster spots in the attempt to find one gem isn't a luxury a struggling team can afford IMO, especially since this was supposed to be a TE heavy offense featuring alot of two TE sets...

I have no problem with trying to convert a Ronald Curry to a new position when you've got Brown, Rice and Porter to put out there in the meanwhile... or trying to convert a Bing when we've got a stable of other backers... but it seems like we've been so busy trying to find the next Antonio Gates that we've forgotten the importance that guys like Aaron Shea and Brandon Manumaleuna play in the big picture...

If Al wants to have a single WR with freak size and skills like Adkisson on the roster to try and convert, that's fine with me so long as he stocks the roster with a grunt type TE like Daniel Graham to go along with Courtney and said TE/WR experiment...

Personally, I think Williams best value to us was strictly as a 215 pound special teams demon and that John Madsen should be a slot WR... Adkisson as a TE project does intrigue me though....

JMO..

I don't disagree. Three roster projects is too much for one position, espeically when your incumbent starter isn't an established veteran. The minute we dropped all the other TE potentials I thought we'd have to go with a tackle eligible if Anderson went down. Instead we've elevated Williams because he's a better blocker than Anderson. Oh boy! I'd forgotten about MIA Adkisson.

I'm not sure about Madsen. At that height I think TE, but at his weight I don't think Stud I think Move, so we'd always need a blocking TE, or we'd have to draft a stud RB so that our TE only had to occupy, instead of move, a defender.

I really liked Shea coming out of college. Oh well. We've got work to do on offense.

 

[Freakshow]

I'd love to see the Raiders scap this crap of trying to convert Maddsen to a TE. He looks like a WR and seems to operate like one. To me looks like we need some WR's right now.

Randall Williams? Get rid of that clown.

Great post Bones. Couldn't agree more. I watched Madsen kick ass up here in SLC as a wide-receiver and he was outstanding before blowing out his knee half-way through his senior year (which is another reason why he shouldn't put on another 20 pounds). Keep the kid as a split end and let him work the middle and mid-range routes. It's not like Moss and company are doing anything. Hell, we need receivers way more than tight ends anyway. No more freakin tight-end experiments. Williams was an average receiver in Dallas before getting the axe - what makes Oakland think he'll ever be more than that in a new position?

 

[Rupert]

Jerry Mac hits a lot of points.

Huntley looked good.

Where the hell is Johnnie Morant? Time to see what he's about.

I definitely want to see more of Lee.

I still think Madsen should be a TE and add 10-15lbs over the next 3-5 years, but WR's are moving towards his size, so...

 

[Jack's sore libido]

Randall Williams was worthless two years ago, and he's worthless now.

People have a lot of fun at the expense of James Jett's catching ability, but compared to Randall Williams, Jett looks like Cris fucking Carter.

 

[007]

1) Jerry Mac: Its almost as if you just read my diary. Fuckin simple, yet brilliant. I agree with everything he said, but would add that Terd should start.

2) Jack, great point on Williams. Dude blows. Hard.

 

[Jack's sore libido]

Terd should start.

It took three years, but my jihad is finally catching on.

 

[Crossbones]

1) Jerry Mac: Its almost as if you just read my diary.

Better yet he for sure is reading this forum. I think HBoy gave him and Nancy the heads up and slipped them the URL.

1) Jack, great point on Williams. Dude blows. Hard.

I agree. Jack has a way with words. Sounded more like me than Jack though in this case. Bottom line is that Williams isn't getting much love from the Raider Nation -- and he earned all the playa hate in this case! With luck he'll come up with some sort of mystery injury for the final 4 games of his Raider career.

 

[Jack's sore libido]

My problem with Williams is, if he can't block, and he's not that good of a receiver (couple game-losing drops last year), and he fumbles twice in one game ... what the hell good is he?

 

[Madturk]

Between Williams and Anderson, they've really killed nice drives with their ill timed drops. If you're a pass catching TE and can't block for shit, you better hold onto the ball.

I was watching the 83 Raider highlights on NFL Network and they did a nice segment on Todd Christiansen. Slow unathletic white dude who just made plays. Probably the last decent TE we've had. It's been too damn long.

 

[Raider Nation]

Between Williams and Anderson, they've really killed nice drives with their ill timed drops. If you're a pass catching TE and can't block for shit, you better hold onto the ball.

I was watching the 83 Raider highlights on NFL Network and they did a nice segment on Todd Christiansen. Slow unathletic white dude who just made plays. Probably the last decent TE we've had. It's been too damn long.

Actually, Ethan Horton was pretty decent.

But since then? Well, it's been the curse of Rickey Dudley for the last decade when it comes to TE's in Oakland.

 

[Crossbones]

Between Williams and Anderson, they've really killed nice drives with their ill timed drops. If you're a pass catching TE and can't block for shit, you better hold onto the ball.

I was watching the 83 Raider highlights on NFL Network and they did a nice segment on Todd Christiansen. Slow unathletic white dude who just made plays. Probably the last decent TE we've had. It's been too damn long.

Oh be careful...Christiansen was a converted running back.

 

[Ghost To The Post]

So was Ethan Horton!!