Next Years HC (Poll)

Who do you want as Raiders HC

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    27
Langlier

Langlier

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Lets say we have our choice of any of these.
 
I am going with Rob Ryan, I just am not sure Al will let Art make it through the season next year unless we are tearing it up!
 
I'm going with Art but I'd like to see Dave McGinnis on the list. He got alot out of those Cardinals when he was there.

What's June Jones doing these days?... I'd love to have his QB.

My ultimate would be Bill Cower.... you heard it here first. :)
 
Remember when there was talk (before the won the Super Bowl, of course) that Cowher had worn out his welcome in Pittsburgh? I was right at the front of the line, screaming "I'll take him!"

That said, if we're intent on starting over, I wouldn't mind seeing Petrino. If we're bringing in some more accomplished veterans to go with our youth, I wouldn't mind seeing Gruden brought back (I tend to think that Gruden's approach works best when you've got a veteran laden lockerroom to counter his screaming and yelling), though we all know that that will NEVER happen.

As is, I'd really rather see Art Shell come back for another year... after an overhaul of the coaching staff, particularly on the offensive side of the ball. We've got offensive line coaches with great pedigrees who have made a first round pick (Gallery) and two second round picks (Grove, Walker) look completely incompetent. While a "talent" argument can be made, it is still pretty damning that we can't point to one or two players as "the culprit"... because the entire line has been horrible. We've had two quarterbacks who make crucial mistakes in coverage recognition. We've had two offensive coordinators who can't seem to get the offense into the endzone.

So... why keep Art? Because I don't believe in canning a guy after one year when he inherited a complete mess - and, believe it or not, I said the same when Bugel went 4-12.
 
TheNextStep said:
So... why keep Art? Because I don't believe in canning a guy after one year when he inherited a complete mess - and, believe it or not, I said the same when Bugel went 4-12.
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Stepper...what have you (we) seen from Art that even shows a sign that he's able to turn this thing in the right direction? I just can't come up with anything. I think we might as well just admit it was a mistake. Art Shell was a great technician. A great Raider player. He's not a good HC IMO.
 
Art Shell… albeit a bit begrudgingly.

I am not impressed with him in the least but continuity will do more for this team than another coaching change at this point. How he addresses his staff (OC) during the offseason will be huge.

Ryan is still a little green at this IMO. However, I would like to see him “promoted” to Assistant HC and take on a more responsibility. In addition to the experience he would receive, it would prevent other teams from talking to him unless it was for a HC position.

Win/Win.
 
I don't think any head coach should get the axe after only one season. This team has sucked for 4 years before Shell even got there and I'm sure there's a lot to clean up. Continuity is a big deal imo and I'm tired of running a new coach out there every two years. Players don't get much of a chance to adapt to all the new schemes, philosophies, playbooks, attitudes, expectations, etc.

I think a fair comparison to make is when Art coached Oakland the first time around. He had Walsh, Bilitnikoff, Brown, and Al to work with yet his team consistently made the playoffs. He obviously has the same approach to coaching as he ever has, so to me it was due to the fact that they had better players back then.
 
So what's Art "cleaned up"? Just wonderin'. I can't see a single thing.
 
CrossBones said:
So what's Art "cleaned up"? Just wonderin'. I can't see a single thing.
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This is a great question. The results haven't come yet in terms of wins and losses but I think he's starting to get his guys to play with more toughness and heart. This was his first order of business as you recal when he was rehired. Attitude is not something that happens overnight. First and foremost, he wants his guys in Silver and Black to get back their nasty, hard-nosed, mean style of football that was their m.o. for all those years. Losing so much makes it difficult to see any positives but I think he's laying down a clear level of expectations to his troops. Several players from opposing teams have commented on this. "They will play hard and they will play tough". In Shell's mind, the results will come when a foundation of toughness has been built and he's shown to me at least, that he's not one to waiver on this. I'm down with this approach and understand it might have to get a little worse before it starts getting better. Once the building blocks are in place and some better players/coaches come in he'll have a heck of a lot more to work with.

Don't get me wrong Bones, there's a long list of questionable decisions on Shell's resume and he definitely needs to shoulder some blame. The mess with Porter, looking the other way with Moss, bringing in Jeff George, unexplainably trading away Gabriel, hiring a terrible oc - it's pretty long and ultimitately may cost him his job. However, I'm willing to live with it as long as 2007 starts showing signs of life.
 
One of the things I like about Shell is voiced well, ironically, in a complaint of LaMont Jordan's:

"It really doesn't matter how I feel," Jordan said. "One thing I get about this year is that it really doesn't matter what players think or what the players feel. We're going to be coached the way we're going to be coached. The schedule's going to be what the schedule is. And the only thing we can do is what we've done each and every week, and that's come out and practice, practice hard and try to come out there on Sunday and pick up a win."
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I read that and I think, "That's the way it should be, LaMont." When you've got the players deciding how they're going to be coached, setting their own schedules, and demanding that the organization cater to their "feelings" that's when you've got one of those oft-mentioned "inmates running the asylum" scenarios.

Did Art's arrival precipitate a change in the way things were done? Yeah. Did it probably tweak the noses of guys who had been here before and were used to a more lax way of doing things? Yeah.

I'll be interested to see what happens within the lockerroom once there's been an off-season for Art to sweep out some malcontents and any new guys that come in find themselves in a situation where his peers are, by and large, guys who are drinking Art's Kool-Aid.
 
I guess Petrino, only because we know what the rest have to show for the most part in the NFL. Honestly, I don't think it makes much of a difference who's at the helm if we don't get some quality offensive coaches in here.
 
On the defensive side of the ball I'd agree but it has amlost nothing to do with Shell.

On offense I don't see much of a great attitude change when poeple like Jordan are shrugging their shoulders and saying ``hey I just do what I'm told". Plus others have basically said the same thingh but don't want to get stuck in the doghouse. Thus you get the backhanded ``I like Shell" from Scrabble which as I mentioned doesn't mean much coming from a defensive player. Where's Gallery saying I love Art and all he's done for me and the offense? Grove? Sims? Moss.

Yeah Freak I hear where you're coming from. this is getting old though. We need a first class coaching staff in Oakland and I don't see it happening. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised but I think Art is our boy...I mean man. :p
 
CrossBones said:
On the defensive side of the ball I'd agree but it has amlost nothing to do with Shell.

On offense I don't see much of a great attitude change when poeple like Jordan are shrugging their shoulders and saying ``hey I just do what I'm told". Plus others have basically said the same thingh but don't want to get stuck in the doghouse. Thus you get the backhanded ``I like Shell" from Scrabble which as I mentioned doesn't mean much coming from a defensive player. Where's Gallery saying I love Art and all he's done for me and the offense? Grove? Sims? Moss.

Yeah Freak I hear where you're coming from. this is getting old though. We need a first class coaching staff in Oakland and I don't see it happening. Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised but I think Art is our boy...I mean man. :p
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If there's any truth to the Scheffter speculation you'll get your wish sooner than later. It just seems like that every time we get a new coach it sets us back a couple more years, and if we don't, we're on the straight road to nowhere. It's no picnic being a raider fan, that's for damn sure.:(
 
Freakshow said:
It just seems like that every time we get a new coach it sets us back a couple more years
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At the same time, we also have to consider the caliber of HC that Davis has brought in. Outside of Gruden... Mike White, Bugel, Callahan, and Turner were not even in play for a shot at any other HC job before getting the nod here... but more important, none of them got a look for another NFL HC vacancy after getting the boot. I think the same will apply for Shell.

... and to be fair, if it weren't for what Ryan did on defense this year, Shell's team would be 0-15 right now.
 
Art deserves some credit for the defense, if he is getting EVERY piece of credit for everything else failing. This defense looked horrible before Art was here. I know this is mostly due to Ryan but spending all those day one picks last couple years on D affected the whole team. Huff , Howard and Bing could have all been offensive players, same as Fabian Routt etc. We need to build the offense a whole lot more and give the man something to work with. Moss and Porter did not want a no-nonsense coach like Art fucking up their free stay in Oakland. He will dump them. Our O-line has some talent but it is all young and underdeveloped. Two rookie guards? a rookie ( basically) Left Tackle and a second year C. Add Mount Langston Walker texas sackmaster and that is a young group asked to learn a brand new blocking scheme deemed" difficult to master". Brooks , Walter and Walsh also didnt help Art. It's his 1st year after a long coaching break trying to turn around a great franchise that has sunk to an all time low.. He has laid a tough foundation for TEAM players to buy into. The Defense and Sapp dont have a problem with Art other than his O giving them nothing. I think if Art draft's and sign's FA players on the O side of the ball then next year we should see some results. I am not saying i wouoldnt rather have another coach, but Art is who we have now and he desereves at leqast 1 more season to turn things around. I wish we could sign a Petrino etc but its just not gonna happen. These players need some stability.
 
BigTron said:
Art deserves some credit for the defense, if he is getting EVERY piece of credit for everything else failing. This defense looked horrible before Art was here. I know this is mostly due to Ryan but spending all those day one picks last couple years on D affected the whole team.
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The defensive pieces were pretty much in place before Art came here. I'd like to find a way to give him credit but it's been Ryan's baby all along. Shell would be well advised not to fuck with it.
 
But you have to admit that Art and Al used this whole draft on D. We actually have pretty much drafted mostly D for a long time, minus Gallery and Grove's high picks. Its not completely his fault this O has very limited talent. I just dont think you can crush him for EVERYTHING that happens and then give him ZERO credit for the defense. Everybody on every forum wanted Nnamdi and Ryans neck before this season. It takes a few years of building to see results. I believe we are almost done on D, we need to continue the offensive rebuilding process which was damaged by Gallery and Grove's lack of solidarity. As far as Art goes the defense seem's like they wanna play for him, and Ryan. Sapp and Nnamdi and Burgess have spoken in favor of Art. Moss and Porter just dont want to conform. He cited that as the problem that the franchise has been facing. I dont think he is a good X's and O's coach, and i dont believe he will ever win us a superbowl at HC. But i do believe this year and next year he will set a foundation and structure for what kind of players and mentality the Raiders teams will consist of. I think he coaches one more year we draft top 5 again, he moves upstairs and Al pays big money for a big name coach to take our young talented team back to glory. This is my wet dream however.
 
BigTron said:
But you have to admit that Art and Al used this whole draft on D.
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I'm not sure why you think Art Shell had any significant input on the draft, let alone on the defensive players we drafted. My guess is Davis would have drafted that exact same group of players had Shell not been given the job.




BigTron said:
As far as Art goes the defense seem's like they wanna play for him, and Ryan. Sapp and Nnamdi and Burgess have spoken in favor of Art.
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This is news to me. I know Nnamdi was in favor of keeping Shell for the same reasons he was in favor of keeping Turner last year. I have yet to see, read, or hear a single quote from either Sapp or Burgess in favor of Art Shell.




BigTron said:
But i do believe this year and next year he will set a foundation and structure for what kind of players and mentality the Raiders teams will consist of.
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This is kind of hard to buy considering it took Gruden more than 1 season of AFC West championship football to set a mentality and attitude that Callahan destroyed within a season. The best thing this organization has going for it is the ability to very quickly undo the losing, coward, no-sac approach of Art Shell.
 
Okay, look... let me just ask this:

Where does the "everybody hated Nnamdi" and "Everybody hated Ryan" stuff come from? This is about the 3rd or 4th time I've read it (from about the 3rd or 4th person) and I just don't remember it that way at all. I do remember some people being upset with Ryan, with several saying that this was his make or break year, but not too many were advocating giving him the axe. With Nnamdi, I recall some people worried that he was a #2 corner and that we didn't have a "true #1" but I don't recall anybody looking to call the turk on him.

Am I living in an alternate fucking universe here?
 
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