Jerry Porter Talk

[Crossbones]

We really haven't talked much about the Jerry Porter situation.

What do you guys think of the way the Raiders (Art) are handling the situation? Seems to be a stand off at this point which is doing neither side any good.

Personally I've been on again off again about this. At first I thought Art was right on tareget getting the players to understand who was in charge. Now it seems it's a father/child relationship and neither side is budging. So what do the rest of the players think? Think they feel like they are being treated like children or are they thinking "good...'bout time"? I'm just confused about the whole issue.

Is it time to bite the bullet and get what we can for Jerry? Al seems to want his $4 Million back which I think is understandable. Porter wanted to be paid before last season and Al stepped up and paid the man. Porter really didn't respond with lights out play IMO. Now this. Would you want your $4 Million back? What's Porter worth right now? Seattle gave a "1" for Branch. NE gave a 5 for Gabriel.

I have to admire Al in these situations. He's a rock of patience. I think he'll wait this out and see who he can get to pay his price. He's very good at this.

Thoughts?

 

[hawaiianboy]

I've felt for awhile that it was being mishandled... This should have never extended into the regular season... It's fine to establish discipline but with that has to be a clear cut definition of punishment... We've let this linger on and on despite the reports of Porter practicing hard every day since we broke camp... It's gone from establishing a sense of discipline to taking on a feeling of being heavy handed and spiteful... What message exactly does that send to the other players?... Art's point has probably been long forgotten by the players and all that's left is basically the appearance that a player is making a lot of money and burning a roster spot yet not being utilized... Good teams can afford to burn cap space and a roster spot, but for us it's just one extra thing on our plate we need to overcome...

How much longer can Art sell that Whitted is playing ahead of a superior talent based on merit?... If the fans aren't buying it, anyone believe the players are?...

There's no doubt that Porter was downright childish with the vulgar t-shirt and what not, but at some point you've either got to bite the bullet and move him or make an attempt to talk it out and fix the situation... Being a pinhead shouldn't have excluded Porter from getting a second chance with Art... At some point Art has to consider the greater good and be the mature one... It's the head coach's job to ultimately fix a problem... Ignoring the problem like it's not there and basically put the guy on ice has done nothing but elevate the situation... We've already heard murmurs of dispassion from Cooper and Moss and it'll grow with each loss...

If it gets to the point of players choosing sides like with what happened with Marcus Allen, then Art has lost the very cohesiveness he wanted and will ultimately lose the team... I was fine with Art establishing himself as the dominant figure but the follow up to that was just bumbled IMO...

 

[Crossbones]

Well said HBoy.

I'm of the opinion now that it's gone too far. Rupert pointed out to me a couple of weeks ago that Art is acting as the father and Porter the child. Unfortunately his point was that usually in life the father doesn't go on bended knee to apologize to the child. In this case, however I'm not sure it's working waiting for the child to come to papa and say I'm sorry. And, it's hurting the team and will ultimately destroy the coach/player relationship.

 

[Angel]

I think Porter should be on the field and playing...IMO, he can do the team some good...and certainly couldn't hurt anything at this point, could it?

 

[donovan]

I've felt for awhile that it was being mishandled... This should have never extended into the regular season... It's fine to establish discipline but with that has to be a clear cut definition of punishment... We've let this linger on and on despite the reports of Porter practicing hard every day since we broke camp... It's gone from establishing a sense of discipline to taking on a feeling of being heavy handed and spiteful... What message exactly does that send to the other players?... Art's point has probably been long forgotten by the players and all that's left is basically the appearance that a player is making a lot of money and burning a roster spot yet not being utilized... Good teams can afford to burn cap space and a roster spot, but for us it's just one extra thing on our plate we need to overcome...

How much longer can Art sell that Whitted is playing ahead of a superior talent based on merit?... If the fans aren't buying it, anyone believe the players are?...

There's no doubt that Porter was downright childish with the vulgar t-shirt and what not, but at some point you've either got to bite the bullet and move him or make an attempt to talk it out and fix the situation... Being a pinhead shouldn't have excluded Porter from getting a second chance with Art... At some point Art has to consider the greater good and be the mature one... It's the head coach's job to ultimately fix a problem... Ignoring the problem like it's not there and basically put the guy on ice has done nothing but elevate the situation... We've already heard murmurs of dispassion from Cooper and Moss and it'll grow with each loss...

If it gets to the point of players choosing sides like with what happened with Marcus Allen, then Art has lost the very cohesiveness he wanted and will ultimately lose the team... I was fine with Art establishing himself as the dominant figure but the follow up to that was just bumbled IMO...

This is precisely where I come down.

Ultimately at this point, the big thing to me is that if given only the two choices, I'd rather win with assholes and a lack of discipline than lose with disciplined well-to-do fellows. Or, hell, for that matter, at least put up a fight. For that matter, I'm not even sure anymore this was a worthy cause in the first place. Granted, I don't know everything that was said behind closed doors, but in my opinion, Art and company shouldn't have really had a problem with Porter doing his training elsewhere unless he showed up out of shape. He obviously didn't, so what's the problem?

We really shot outselves in the foot here.

And then the Gabriel trade, and not getting Curry more reps? There are a few times in life when the word "befuddling" comes to mind and this is one.

I was at the Browns game and had a pretty good view of the sideline; FWIW, JP was signing balls for some people on the field level, talking to people, wearing Raiders stuff. Hell, I say play him. I think this whole thing has gotten ridiculous.

Who knows? If we play him, maybe that right then and there can at least start to change the image of the team a little bit, which, because I'm so in the gutter as a Raiders fan at this point, would be nice, if not productive on the field.

 

[Crossbones]

I was at the Browns game

Can you give me a good reason why you didn't buy me a beer? I mean I came all the way down there and didn't even know you were going to be at the game. Sheese. We're not communicating man.

 

[donovan]

Can you give me a good reason why you didn't buy me a beer? I mean I came all the way down there and didn't even know you were going to be at the game. Sheese. We're not communicating man.

'Cause, uh, well, be a designated driver! I was/always am.

 

[massraider]

I wonder if this is fixable.

I don't know if the situation has been mishandled, I really don't know what Porter's state of mind is.

 

[Turo]

I believe Jerry Porter continues to ride the pine because he continues to conduct himself as a total shithead with zero retraction or apology. That Art looks at Porter as a little shithead malcontent and isn't going to let him out of 'timeout' until he stops acting like a 5th grader and conducts himself like a man doesn't suprise me. Nor do I think Art is mishandling the situation. You can't let that kind of behavior slide, ESPECIALLY when you're still trying to establish a team philosophy and mentality.

So, fuck him. If he wants to ride the pine, then he can ride the pine. Once we get past the trade deadline and there's no chance of dealing him, then tell him not to bother coming to the facility at all. Hell, tell him not to report for the next 2 years. Part of me would be willing and happy to pay the guy to miss out on the prime of his career. Why? Because fuck him, that's why.

 

[Crossbones]

I believe Jerry Porter continues to ride the pine because he continues to conduct himself as a total shithead with zero retraction or apology. That Art looks at Porter as a little shithead malcontent and isn't going to let him out of 'timeout' until he stops acting like a 5th grader and conducts himself like a man doesn't suprise me. Nor do I think Art is mishandling the situation. You can't let that kind of behavior slide, ESPECIALLY when you're still trying to establish a team philosophy and mentality.

So, fuck him. If he wants to ride the pine, then he can ride the pine. Once we get past the trade deadline and there's no chance of dealing him, then tell him not to bother coming to the facility at all. Hell, tell him not to report for the next 2 years. Part of me would be willing and happy to pay the guy to miss out on the prime of his career. Why? Because fuck him, that's why.

I see.

I don't think we can kick him out fo the facility anymore. The new CBA contains some language to prevent what the Bucs did to Keyshawn and the Iggles did to TO. It's not right but I think that is what happened.

 

[Rupert]

I think the ball is still in Porter's court. Art has established the order of things. If he reaches out to Porter now, he sets himself up for other players to follow Porter's childish lead.

People are asking why Moss's comments on national radio aren't getting the same kind of punishment that Porter got. It's a easy a pie for a rational human to see. Porter said a figurative (if not literal) fuck you to Art in their opening meeting. The coaches wanted him to work out with the team, he wanted to do it in Florida at his new house. He pissed off the coaches and then worked out in Florida. Moss is saying things are tough in the lockerroom and he might welcome getting shipped out of town. But Moss still talks to Art, and Moss didn't and hasn't undermined Art's authority in the lockerroom (that we know of). Different situation altogether.

Porter has to change his attitude.

Consider this, Art caves in to Porter (which playing him would be without Porter apologizing to Art), Porter goes into the game, jakes on a play that causes an Int and loses the game for us. Porter is childish enough to do just that. Art can't allow a guy who isn't pulling in the same direction as everyone else into the game, it's counterproductive.

Do these guys need an intermediary? It would certainly be nice. And when Tim Brown and Rich Gannon talk about a leadership void on the team, this is exactly what they're talking about. Has someone offered to bring the two sides together? We don't know. There are one of two possibilities there: a leader like that doesn't exist, or at least one leader has tried to get the two on the same page. If someone has tried to bring the two together, the fact that Porter is not back in the fold means that only Porter has resisted. If Shell resisted, that would be difficult for the players to accept if one of their leaders offered to bridge the gap, so it's not likely without Shell completely explaining himself to the club (and they accepted the explanation). If Shell has already explained the situation to the team, a leader might not have tried to bridge the gap.

Additionally, not one single comment I've read suggests Porter is practicing hard, or doing anything above and beyond what anyone else on the team is doing. All of Shell's comments have said he's working, doing what we're asking him to do, just like everyone else. Nothing special.

Every way you slice it, the ball is in Porter's court. It's his responsibility to decide to join the team or remain sidelined.

 

[Rupert]

If you ask me about Whitted starting over Curry, I'll say it's odd, but Art has always liked that decoy deep receiver. A guy who teams just might slack off of after you never look at him, and then you kill them with the deep strike.

Personally, I don't think we can afford having a decoy out there when we're only putting 2 guys in the pattern, and one of them (Moss) isn't a route runner / possession receiver. In my book, Moss should be the deep decoy and Curry should be our route runner. If you look at the number of receptions Moss has, he's the equivalent of a decoy. Curry has more receptions than Whitted in fewer snaps. Hello Art. Knock knock. Moss = Branch, Curry = Biletnikof. Do it NOW!

 

[007]

Personally, I don't think we can afford having a decoy out there when we're only putting 2 guys in the pattern, and one of them (Moss) isn't a route runner / possession receiver. In my book, Moss should be the deep decoy and Curry should be our route runner. If you look at the number of receptions Moss has, he's the equivalent of a decoy. Curry has more receptions than Whitted in fewer snaps. Hello Art. Knock knock. Moss = Branch, Curry = Biletnikof. Do it NOW!

Awesome post!

At this point, it seems like Curry should be the #1 WR, with Randy taking Whitted's role and Whitted going to the 3-4 spot.

No matter what, they have to get LJ involved in the passing game though. He led NFL RB's in catches (And drops) last year, but it would make a perfect safety valve and confidence booster for Walter if he could dump 5-6 balls off to LJ and let him do the work...

 

[hawaiianboy]

I think the ball is still in Porter's court. Art has established the order of things. If he reaches out to Porter now, he sets himself up for other players to follow Porter's childish lead.

I guess I look at it from a different perspective... The players respected Art for his preseason stance on discipline, and I'm sure they will also respect him for being the bigger man here and doing what it takes to fix a bad situation for the good of the team... Vets like Sapp and Cooper have already acknowledged Porter's immaturity...

I'm not saying Art should kiss Porters ass or admit to wrong doing, but simply call Porter into his office and have one of those "We got off on the wrong foot, what can we both do to get this fixed for the good of the other 52 guys out there" discussions... The mental telepathy thing going on between the two hasn't exactly worked...

Letting Porter angerly linger just gives him the ability to poison the many young impressionable players we have on the roster... The potential influence he could on others is what concerns me the most... I really don't care if Porter is here or not, but this problem needs to go away... This team just doesn't need anymore negative energy...


I really believe Porter's initial criticism of the Walsh hiring and cry for Martz is what is giving Art the redass... Let's face it, Porter's concerns have come to fruition, and allowing him to stand around in street clothes and have the media spotlight the situation just gives voice to that fact IMO.... The irony is that Shell playing Porter could ultimately actually help make Walsh look better than he has...

If Art truly sees the situation as being at an impasse, then we should act quickly to remove the problem much like Parcells did with Antonio Bryant... Get what you can, cut your losses and move on... I'd have thought that we'd have learned something from the way the Marcus situation was handled and the subsequent splitting of the team that resulted from it...

JMO

 

[hawaiianboy]

Awesome post!

At this point, it seems like Curry should be the #1 WR, with Randy taking Whitted's role and Whitted going to the 3-4 spot.

Yeah it was Rupert... It would also seem like with the connection Walter and Morant have had in the past two preseasons, that Morant could play some flanker in the three WR sets and move Curry to the slot where he seems to always get open...

Anything that will keep Whitted and Randall Williams off the field.....

 

[Crossbones]

You know what pissed me off? Last week they ran Morant on the field and then I think there was a timeout and he was out of the game. Never saw the damn snap.

I do agree that Morant and Walter have some chemistry. Right now Walter and Moss are reading a different book. That kind of timing takes a lot more work and familiarity. That's why I want Wlter to have the QB job for the remainder of the season. By then we'll know what we have there.

 

[007]

Anything that will keep Whitted and Randall Williams off the field.....

Amen brother.

How Williams is still playing in the NFL and over a young guy like Madsen or even Morant is mind boggling...

 

[Rupert]

Yeah it was Rupert... It would also seem like with the connection Walter and Morant have had in the past two preseasons, that Morant could play some flanker in the three WR sets and move Curry to the slot where he seems to always get open...

Anything that will keep Whitted and Randall Williams off the field.....

I would really like to know what happened to Williams. Late last season and in the pre-season he had soft hands and made plays. Now all of a sudden he's got hands of stone and can't catch a thing.

 

[Rupert]

Hawaiianboy: Would you honestly be able to do what you're suggesting in Art's situation? Let's not talk about not putting yourself in the situation in the first place, because I don't think I'd have wound up there either.

 

[hawaiianboy]

Hawaiianboy: Would you honestly be able to do what you're suggesting in Art's situation? Let's not talk about not putting yourself in the situation in the first place, because I don't think I'd have wound up there either.

If you mean initiate the conversation that could end the drama?... Yeah, I'm a firm believer in dealing with problems head on... If you're the boss, the onus is firmly on you to do whatever it takes... Summon him to your office, look into his eyes, talk to him and come to a conclusion... I've done it with employees in the past... Waiting for Jerry Porter to make the first move doesn't help the team in anyway... Some people may view Art making the first move cowtowing to Porter, I look at it as going on the offensive... The best way to dissolve conflict between two people is to get them in the same room and talking about it... If Art sits down with Jerry and comes out of the meeting believing the situation is beyond repair, then a decisive move should be made to cut bait and move on...


I've said from the beginning that while I'd prefer Porter initiate peace, swallow his pride, apologize to Art and his teammates, and become the solid mi-range target that Andrew Walter needs, that isn't likely to happen... I've been consistent with my take that if we're not going to utilize the guy, take the cap hit and move on... Use the roster spot on someone else and give his practice reps to other receivers...

Porter has little initiative to make the situation right, he got his money already and unless we plan on foolishly burning a roster spot on him again next season, he'll be playing somewhere else no matter how much Raider fans despise him... Even if we just get a 7th round pick for him, it ends the drama and we can control that he doesn't land with a division rival...

Everyone saw how the TO drama took down a good team and stable franchise last year, and while the Porter drama is nowhere near that level, our franchise is so fragile right now that letting this linger on is just flirting with adversity IMO...


If Art wanted to establish leadership, he would have dealt with this aggressively, decisively and conclusively... The way Parcells and Belichick handled their problem children... As it is, we have players questioning what is going on exactly... At some point we have to be concerned with how the perception of us sitting a perfectly healthy, practicing player affects potential free agent signings... Players will always look at things from the player's perspective... Right now if I were on the outside looking in, I'd think we were being spiteful... We're an organization known for giving second chances... If Art is not going to afford Porter that chance, then move him...

Bottom line for me I guess is this needs to end one way or another ASAP... Play him, trade him, waive him, I don't really care... Just make a decisive move and not drag it out further...