Calvin Johnson or Randy Moss?

BigTron

BigTron

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Are we not taking CJ because we have Randy Moss?

Lately i have been thinking we should dump Moss and Porter. It wont happen cause Al doesnt wanna look bad. But we need to have no malcontents on this team when our new young HC takes over. I think we could get some 3rd round picks at very least for these guys. As deep as WR is this year its stupid not to do this. The Raiders are not going to turn this offense around in one season IMO. What are the odds of Porter and Moss being here when it finally does turn around? Moss is the Charles Woodson of the offense. He is always hurt, mouthy, expensive and doesnt make his unit any better overall. We need to trade down a few spots pick up another second rounder. Draft Calvin Johnson, who i saw on ESPN news saying ALL the right things. To sum it up he basically said, I wanna be like Rice and Harrison, no mouth, no celebrating, just hard work. He is just as gifted as Moss with a good head and he is young. Safest Pick I have ever seen. Even if Moss stays another year and plays with CJ it doesnt hurt us.

Trade Moss and Porter for two third round picks.
Trade #1 overall and recieve at least another 2nd Rnd pick.
Draft CJ then O-Line, TE and D-Line BPA.

We could use all these picks to move back up and take another 1st rounder. Just some random thoughts.
 
The thing that concerns me about Randy Moss most is his inability to stay health...this has been going on for 3-4 years now. The last two in Minny I believe he was banged up and then last year with us and this year too. Troubling.

Frankly I'm wondering if Al is ready to give up on Moss so quickly,. He gave up the 7th pick in the draft for this guy and he's done nothing. But Al could easily rationalize this becuaswe of unlucky injuries and the poor QB and OL play...I think Al's need to run his vertical offensicvr might preclude sending Moss packing. We'll see just some things I have been thinking about.
 
I heard Moss was making some strange comments at the North/South game when asked questions today. I heard he wasnt overly critical of the Raiders org. But he also didnt sound thrilled to be here apparently.

Not to be critical of J.Russ but CJ impresses me way more during interviews. J.Russell should hire a publicist Because he needs to sell the hope that he is going to be a winner/leader, franchise player, and lay off talking about nike and getting paid just a bit. His on the feild play looks good, but we have had recent problems with Marquee players being unhappy. I want to avoid having another one and take a guy who OBVIOUSLY is a classy guy. Not that JR isnt a good guy, but he hasnt won me over in that department yet.

CJ, Best O-Lieman, B.Leonard would be my ideal draft. Tight End in F.A
 
Tron -- I brought this up before about Russell. He's a kid. He's not comfortable with the media at this point. His head is probably spinning with all the possibilities. I'm just not worried about his "pay me" statements at this point. He just a young kid. I dunno. I don't see it as a big deal.

No doubt taking this guy is a huge decision/risk. I'm glad I don't have to make it. But I think Al is going to evaluate the kid on his play on the field, his potential and his measurables and not what he said in his first press conference. Just my 2¢.
 
CrossBones said:
Tron -- I brought this up before about Russell. He's a kid. He's not comfortable with the media at this point. His head is probably spinning with all the possibilities. I'm just not worried about his "pay me" statements at this point. He just a young kid. I dunno. I don't see it as a big deal.

No doubt taking this guy is a huge decision/risk. I'm glad I don't have to make it. But I think Al is going to evaluate the kid on his play on the field, his potential and his measurables and not what he said in his first press conference. Just my 2¢.
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Agreed. I get the impression that Al could very well gamble on Russell.

Particuarly if we bring in an aggressive offensive mind (Mike Martz, Co-HC with Rob Ryan?) and get after team. No doubt that Al is immagining Shotgun 3/4 combo's with Russell at QB, Moss, Porter & Curry at WR, and one of his TE projects busting the seams against 2-deep zones.
 
All for dumping Moss and Porter. Sign me up.

If we come away from this draft, the draft we have the first pick in, with a WR as our best pick, I will seriously probably develop a bleeding ulcer.
 
If we can get a first for Moss, I'd love to have CJ. If the market will only bear a second for Moss, I'd just as soon keep him and welcome Adrian Peterson to the offense...
 
I think we better trade Moss. In the 2 interviews I've seen him give since the season ended this guy sounds like he is mentally divorced from the Raiders. I don't think there is anything we can do to reconcile this guy into playing hard for us.
 
Banter said:
I think we better trade Moss. In the 2 interviews I've seen him give since the season ended this guy sounds like he is mentally divorced from the Raiders. I don't think there is anything we can do to reconcile this guy into playing hard for us.
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I agree. I wanted Moss in OAK to work, but sometimes you have to call it what it is... a mistake.
 
TheNextStep said:
If we can get a first for Moss, I'd love to have CJ. If the market will only bear a second for Moss, I'd just as soon keep him and welcome Adrian Peterson to the offense...
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Both Walter and Brooks got ass kicked behind that line and OC

CJ woont turn this team around.. no sir.. I'd go on record and say he would'nt even get 600 yards, Adrian Peterson looks good tho'.. however,

I remember looking at and posting stats of 1st rd WR's a couple years back when we we're all debating the Fitzgerald pick

And my research concluded that in the last 15 years, all WR's taken in the 1st never reached the 1000 yard mark their rookie season except for Bolden

I fell into the Al thinking for years about signing vet QB's. And also thinking in terms of running teams like the Chiefs and Chargers

But yesterdays game pretty much confirmed it to me that you gotta have a great QB to win in this league

I firmly believe good QB's make average WR's very good and Great WR's still make average QB's very average.

Good teams in the league also have and utilize the TE alot.. We have complete dogshit for TE's, all across the board.

6'5 252 lbs and can throw the ball 70 yards effortlessly is something you just can't ignore. I was concerned about Russell's accuracy at one point and googled some youtube videos and he is pretty damn good with accuracy

He also plays in the best conference in college.. the SEC.. theres no other conference remotly close.

And his completion ratio is like 68%, some say thats average.. but his avearge pass per completion is 9 yards.. which means that his 68% is not lame ass dump offs to the RB.. those are 20-40 passes down the field man.

Heres what we should hope happens

Robbie Tobeck the Seahawks center is a UFA.. long in the tooth but he would be a fantastic pickup, if even for a year or two.. He can still ball and would bring immediate leadership to this OL. Seahawks have a young center in Chris Spencer and he has won that starting job.

Offer Tobeck the starting position and a 2 year deal and it is on.

Eric Steinbach should be this teams 1st priority in the off-season.. Even if that means trading Moss for a pick and feeing up coin to sign.. he'll get bank.. but he's one of the best guards in the game

You get Tobeck & Steinbach anchoring that interior line and it will pay huge dividends.

I like Slaughter at LT, Steinbach - LG, Tobeck - C ,Boothe-RG,-Gallery -RT

That line with Russell and say a Zach Miller or Olsen at TE and this offesne would be repectable again..

Look no further than the Saints

Sign center Jeff Faine, Drew Brees and get Payton and go from from a 3-13 team to going to the NFC Championship game a year later

Me personally? I believe the reason for their turn around was the reults of 3 signings

Faine, Brees and Payton

We need to do the same

As far as RB.. Jordans making to much and Fargas looked to finally get it going. Next years draft is loaded with RB's and I believe thats when we should take our RB

To Note: Antonio Pittman declared

He's a very underated RB in my book and would be there in rd 3

That would be a good solid draft if we signed the FA's mentioned above

Russell - QB
Miller -TE
Pittman - RB

That'd be an AA++ rate in my book
 
Last edited:
Russell - QB
Miller -TE
Pittman - RB
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NIPS that is a DREAM draft for me...One of the Best TE's and the Best Overall QB......and a solid RB.....NICE..

I only worry that If we get rid of a Moss and Porter duo. We have to use one of our First 3 or 4 on a WR.......We will have to.....
 
jatfly said:
NIPS that is a DREAM draft for me...One of the Best TE's and the Best Overall QB......and a solid RB.....NICE..

I only worry that If we get rid of a Moss and Porter duo. We have to use one of our First 3 or 4 on a WR.......We will have to.....
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If we do trade Moss, we ought get a 2nd rd pick, I wouldnt trade him for anything less without another player in the trade.

Robert Meachem or Anthony Gonzalez one of the 2 should still be there in the mid to late 2nd rd

I personally hope that the new OC new scheme makes Moss and Porter have sometging to look forward to and they stay...
 
Ugly Nipples said:
If we do trade Moss, we ought get a 2nd rd pick, I wouldnt trade him for anything less without another player in the trade.

Robert Meachem or Anthony Gonzalez one of the 2 should still be there in the mid to late 2nd rd

I personally hope that the new OC new scheme makes Moss and Porter have sometging to look forward to and they stay...
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I would like to see them both Stay, if all the trouble wasn't there last year. I think ONE has to go if not both.....that's Just me :cool: ....
 
Jack's sore libido said:
Meachem is like 15th on Mel's "big board."

He could rise the way Stallworth did after workouts.
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Never read into Eddie Munster

Robert Meachem will not go in the mid 1st

The only team I see burning a 1st on is San Diego.. And I have them taking Rice with their pick

Every year we see a big time player fall.. Meachem will go early 2nd, perhaps to the Bucs if they dont get CJ or he will go around 10-15 in the 2nd rd
 
Meachem is first round talent no doubt.

With Jarrett, Rice, Johnson, Ginn, Samardzija, and Dwayne Bowe all considered first-second round talents, he might fall though.

What boggles my mind is that a guy like Johnny Lee Higgins, Craig Davis, Anthony Gonzalez or Paul Williams could be there with our late third-early fourth round pick...Those guys are legit talents.
 
Dont get me wrong. I understand that Wr isnt a key postion or need right now for us. Im am just scared to gamble on JR. We need one of our holes to be filled and forgotten for the next 10. I just think AP and CJ can give us that no doubt. JR while he could be the next great NFL qb, could also set us back 5 years. Its all a crap shoot though so im open to whatever happens. Trading down would be genious.
 
From an article in the Chicago Tribune:

Bears general manager Jerry Angelo, who has enjoyed an impressive stretch of being right about several things, appears to be right about this: In the grand scheme, wide receivers don't matter as much as wide receivers think they do.

This is easier to say now that Steve Smith won't be playing Sunday against the Bears at Soldier Field.


The 2006 season confirmed a notion that while receivers certainly are necessary, they also can be pretty much interchangeable.

The Bears' big-money signing of proven veteran Muhsin Muhammad before the 2005 season filled a void after the 2004 trade of Marty Booker. Recent statistics indicate they might be the same person.

Angelo resisted the urge to overpay Pittsburgh's Antwaan Randle El, sticking with Bernard Berrian and Mark Bradley and drafting Devin Hester.

Likewise, the Steelers didn't break their bank to keep Randle El, instead drafting Santonio Holmes, who caught more passes and posted a better punt return average than Randle El did in Washington.

The Redskins not only sought Randle El, they also traded for San Francisco's leading receiver, Brandon Lloyd. With Lloyd catching all of 23 passes, none for a touchdown, the Redskins won fewer games, the 49ers won more.

Because he would have it no other way, Terrell Owens was the biggest name receiver to move last season. The Cowboys were going to blossom with him and the Eagles were going to fold without him.

Owens could watch the Eagles play the Saints on Saturday using one of the Saints' former receivers, Donte' Stallworth. The Saints replaced him with seventh-round rookie Marques Colston, the most prolific wide receiver left in the NFC playoffs.

If you can find Colston, Donald Driver and T.J. Houshmandzadeh in the seventh round, why worry about where your next receiver is coming from?

The Seahawks snapped up Deion Branch when the Patriots apparently weren't overly impressed by his Super Bowl MVP credentials.

Besides losing their top receiver Branch, the Patriots also lost their second-leading receiver, David Givens, to the Titans. So the Patriots signed Reche Caldwell after the Chargers let him go in free agency. The Patriots also signed Jabar Gaffney, whom the Eagles released after he signed as a free agent from the Texans.

On his third team in 10 months, Gaffney just happens to lead all postseason receivers (104 yards) after last week's first-round games.

Unless you're the Indianapolis Colts, who live and die with the arm of Peyton Manning and hands of receivers Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne, it appears you can find suitable receivers just about anywhere you look—free agency, high in the draft, low in the draft, practice squad, trade or street.

There's a reason that no wide receiver ever has won the Associated Press league MVP award since its inception 50 years ago.

The Broncos were going to take the next step by adding gifted Javon Walker from the Packers. Ex-Bronco Ashley Lelie was going to give Atlanta's Michael Vick a "go-to guy." The Broncos and Falcons won fewer games than they did last year and the Packers won twice as many after replacing Walker with rookie Greg Jennings.

The Bills let go of leading receiver Eric Moulds, who went to the Texans to complement Andre Johnson. Finally, Houston quarterback David Carr would have a better target than Gaffney. The Bills brought back Peerless Price, a failure in Atlanta, and the Bills won more games than they did with Moulds. Johnson led the NFL in receptions with 103 and the Texans won only six games.

Before 2005, Angelo resisted advice to draft USC receiver Mike Williams and took running back Cedric Benson instead. Williams has proved a difference-maker all right, just like previous top picks Charles Rogers and Roy Williams have. The Lions have bounced from 5-11 to 6-10 to 5-11 to 3-13 since they started drafting wide receivers high. And who led the NFC in receptions? The Lions' Mike Furrey, a former Rams defensive back.

The 2005 season was when Randy Moss, the Owens of his day, was the big news as the Vikings traded him to the Raiders. Now Moss isn't even little news. Maybe he can hire the publicist Owens just fired.

Four days before the Cowboys signed Owens, they released Keyshawn Johnson, who quickly joined the Panthers as the much-needed replacement for Muhammad, the long-lost complement to Smith. The Panthers went from 11-5 to 8-8 and even though it looks like Smith didn't make any more difference this year than any other receiver, the Bears are just as glad they don't have to see him again.
 
Jack's sore libido said:
Meachem is like 15th on Mel's "big board."

He could rise the way Stallworth did after workouts.
Click to expand...
Who were Mel's top 10 over the last 3 year I would love to know if they were great pro's and what he said????
 
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