Breaking Down the Defensive Line

Crossbones

Same shit. Different day.
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Okay...I'll give this a shot. Don't expect Rupert like analysis :p but I'll give you my opinions of what we have and where we might go with it.

Bobby Hamiliton - I thought Hamilton did a pretty good job this year. With all the changing of personnel it's difficult to get a good read on a player like Bobby as he's in and out sometimes faster than the eye can see. But his age aside I think Hamilton can be part of a fairly good defensive line given the right scheme. He seemed to hold up well against the run and had a few flashes at getting after the quarterback. his age dfoes remain a factor.

Warren Sapp - Sapp came back this year with a vengeance. He must have been happy to see the Raiders finally scrap the 3-4 alignment and get his chance to move back insif=de where he has been awfully good since coming to the NFL. Sapp is the perfect UT as he is strong and relatively quick able to shed blockers at the point of attack. Whether Warren is in the Raiders plans is somewhat open for discussion. but his play before his injury showed that he still has something left in the tank.

Derick Burgess - Well the man finally stayed healthy for an entire season and what happens? He leads the league in sacks and sets an all time Raiders record for sacks all in one season. Wow. Impressive. Burgess was really the Raiders only consistent pass rusher this season. In fact in those games when Derrick wasn't on his game the pas rush was lack luster and opposing quarterbacks went wild having lots of time to pick apart the Raisers secondary. I mean defensive backs can only cover for so long. anyhow, Burgess was used in the perfect role of situational pass rusher most of the year. It allowed him to be fresh and didn't subject him to the rigors of taking 40-50 snaps a game. Good move IMO.

Ted Washington - Big Ted as he's know. He looks bigger evey time I turn on the TV. He's still effective but I guess the burning question is for how long. I think Ted is going to turn 37 this coming season. That's pretty old for a guy carrying that much weight and a guy who has taken a pounding for this many years in the NFL. Can he go another year? -- probably but it's likely a decision he'll make and not the Raiders. Washington is one of the best at clogging up the middle and causing havoc in general.

Tyler Brayton - I n=know he played OLB but to me Brayton is a defensive end and is completely mis-cast at the linebacker position. In his rookie season he did a darn nice job playing De. He's not going to be a 12 sack guy in this league but he's good against the run and does have a knack for getting after the quarterback at times. The problem now is his mental state. He's been jacked around the last two seasons and is probably wondering what happens next. He's taken off some weight and it really hasn't helped in the linebacker role. I'd like to see him bulk back up and have his hand on the ground from now on. I think he can be an effective player for the Raiders but the coaching staff has to stop the madness with this guy.

Tommy Kelly - What a find, huh? Kelly has shown a lot of versatility. He's been playing DE and filled in at tackle at times. Again the DL doesn't seem to have an identity and Kelly is another player being shuttled around. Personally I like Kelly inside at the UT position. He can start there and let Sapp spell him. I think Kelly can be a beast at UT while I think at DE he doesn't have the quickness needed to be dominate.

Anttaj Hawthorne - Well what can be said about this guy except a big ft incomplete. At one time his stock had risen very high while he was in college. A sure first round pick dropped all the way to the sixth round. Even cleared waivers to get to the Raiders pratice squad. Not sure what that tells us except there are issues here. Kid apparently has all the tools if he can get his head into the this thing. Hard to count on a guy like this but his upside is enormous.

Ryan Riddle - Saw this guy do a few nice thing in 2005 but again really didn't get the kind of playing time necessary to really evalute his future potential. At least for me that is the case. I thin kothers may be able to bring better insight to Riddle tha I can at this point.

Terdell Sands - Guy impresses me as being very strong. He's done some good things in limited playing time. I look for him to get better and possibly play more especially if Mr. Washington is out of the picture.

Ed Jasper - My impression of Jasper is that he's pretty dedicated. He wants to play and tries hard out there on the field. I don't know exactly where he fits into the scheme of things next year but I hope he's around for quality depth.

So my dream scenario would be to draft Mario Williams and complete what I think would be a pretty good defensive line. Williams could be that one stud pass rusher the Raiders haven't had since Greg Townsend. With Burgess filling his role and Kelly, Sapp, Washington, Sands and Hamilton rounding out the rotation they could be nails. throw in Tyler Brayton as a DE and we might have something. The key here is the constant pressure that group could bring. The addition of Williams would complement the DL and almost assure the Raiders would have pressure most times. As it is now, if Burgess isn't in the play we're in trouble.

Sadly as I look at the draft I'm not sure Williams will last until the sixth pick. I'm hoping he will.
 
Bobby Hamilton - It would be nice to squeeze one more year out of Hamilton, but he will "wake up old" at some point. I'm not counting on him.

Warren Sapp - Aged, overweight and coming off a significant shoulder surgery. My gut tells me that his early season spurt of good play was it for Warren. Personally, I'd like to see us cut bait on Warren Sapp. The fact that he doesn't always play hard doesn't sit to well with me either.

Ted Washington - See Bobby Hamilton. How much longer can he keep it up? My guess is that he is also 'done'.

Derrick Burgess - Not only did he stay healthy and record 16 sacks, he was also more stout against the run at DE than advertised. Excellent, excellent football player. Moss got the headlines, Jordan got a ton of cash, but Burgess was easily our best acquisition last offseason. Hopefully Hamilton can keep it going for one more year to reduce the physical pounding that Burgess will take if required to play most run downs.

Tyler Brayton - Depth guy at best, regardless of position. I don't see much to write home about with Brayton. Great attitude and that's about it IMHO.

Antajj Hawthorne - Not sure why we waited so long to call him up from the PS? Dumb move, I was hoping to get a longer look at him. At this point we have no idea what we have, if anything, when it comes to Antajj. He should not be a prime consideration for our offseason planning, that much is certain.

Terdell Sands - Big guy looked pretty good towards the end. Much qucker than I would've thought. Still plays at bit "high" and allows the C/G to get under his pads and root him out of position against the run, but I think he is a valuable rotational DT with some potential as a possible starter.

Ryan Riddle - A true OLB/DE tweener. I think he has a chance to become a situational pass rusher, ala Kevin Greene of Pittsburg/Ram fame. Only time will tell and he is extremely raw.

Ed Jasper - A pretty good pass rushing DT, but is not great against the run. My guess is that Jasper will retire this offseason.

Given the age and contract situation of many of these players, I think we could see significant roster change. Ngata or Williams would be perfect for the Raiders. I'd prefer Williams to bookend with Burgess (imagine that), but I don't think he falls to #6 - Ngata just may be the guy....
 
A good combination of youth and experience or...

If we didn't have to run a nickel defense all season we might have seen even better production from this line. The collection of youth and experience kept these guys fairly productive all season. So let me get into the swing and break it down.

Bobby Hamilton is the consummate professional. He stands up against the run and he pushes his man into the backfield to get the occassional opportunity for a sack. He's not starter material anymore, but he is better than almost any backup you can find for his lockerroom presence and his work ethic.

Warren Sapp spent a year out of position and looked like a man reborn when he returned to his most productive position, the 3 technique DT. With one-gap penetrating responsibilities he's a monster at disrupting both running and passing games. His shoulder injury and age will be problems for his return, but they won't be big ones.

Derrick Burgess is the real deal and another Al Davis steal, just add him to the list. Burgess was a LOT better against the run than we had been led to believe, and he was everything he was supposed to be when rushing the passer. He was susceptible to fakes and could be baited, but he learned very quickly to control his desire to make the big play on every down and wound up making more of them as the season wore on.

Ted Washington wore down faster as the season progressed. If he comes back next year he'd better come off the bench.

Tyler Brayton: I have no basis for this conclusion, but I get the feeling that he's a product of steroids. I extrapolate that belief into the Raiders deciding to downsize him to linebacker. And believe it or not, I believe he's done a decent job in limitted situations as a backer. I don't think he belongs on this list because I think he struggles to keep weight on (which is why I believe he was taking steroids - that and the stereotypical steroid neanderthal forehead and brow).

Tommy Kelly is the consummate defensive lineman and the perfect Al Davis defensive lineman. He can play inside and out (3 & 5-technique tackles), and he plays both very well. He's a modern-day Howie Long. Really. Like Howie he's strong enough to bull rush any O-lineman one-on-one. Like Howie he's quick enough to split interior linemen and make an inside move on an OT. He's not as fast as Howie was around the corner, but in today's NFL if you're that quick, you're not likely to be strong enough to bull rush, it's a very rare combination today and becoming more rare as we breathe (okay, maybe not that fast). Kelly is the man. He's got all the raw skills and believe it or not still has room to grow. None of his techniques are particularly obvious, so he's either not too good at them, or he doesn't really use them. In either case, if he develops them, he'll become better.

Anttaj Hawthorne is a raw talent. He gets good leverage one-on-one with a bull rush and has enough quickness to split double teams. He has the potential to be very disruptive.

Ryan Riddle is a tweener, no question. If the Raiders stay with the 4-3 he'll get reps as a down lineman. And in the event Burgess goes down, he'll get reps as the pass rusher. If it's back to the 3-4 Riddle will get on the field very quickly as an OLB.

Terdell Sands showed great progress this season, mostly toward the end when he got plenty of reps spelling Washington. He learned to keep his center of gravity low(er) and wasn't blown out as frequently against the double team. He showed some nice short-range quickness when he found a seam, and started his career as a disruptive force as a nose tackle. Can he keep it up. If the Raiders are going to be successful next season, he'll have to, and he'll have to gain some endurance because he too wore down in games (not over the season like Washington which shows the effects of age, but during the game).

Ed Jasper is excellent depth. He played both the 3 & 5-technique tackle spots and had moments where he made plays. Late in the half is where he is most effective, and bringing him back for depth wouldn't be a bad idea.

At nose tackle: if Washington hangs it up, Sands will have to step up and handle it as the starter, and Hawthorne will have to get the nose tackle spot down as the primary backup, a task I don't know if either is up to. I'd be worried if Washington hangs it up, and if he's leaning that way, I might want a replacement. The Raiders have been VERY successful getting beef late in the draft and I'd rather go that route than early in the draft.

At the 3-technique: Sapp is on the downslide but can still be effective, Kelly showed as much productivity as Sapp in the last couple games and could be the heir apparent, Jasper is credible depth in the event of injury. Hawthorne has the game of a 3-technique right now, but he has the size to play the nose. He could be depth at both positions if Washington can stay and be effective. I don't see depth problems here.

The 5-technique is often referred to as a defensive end who is responsible for every snap on defense and has to hold up against the run and rush the passer. Kelly does a great job here and could very well be the starter next year if Sapp returns. Hamilton is on the downside of his career, but he's a valuable backup. Jasper also does a credible job when he's out here, but I wouldn't want to rely on him. I'm worried about the depth here. Hamilton and Jasper are old, and when Brayton, Grant, or Irons got time here when Kelly was inside, they were ALL ineffective.

The 7-technique is the traditional rush end and Derrick Burgess looks like he can handle it every down with a little help here and there to keep him fresh or when a team goes run happy. Behind him there are a bunch of contenders Brayton, Grant, Irons, and Riddle. I haven't seen anything from Riddle as an end and i don't think any of the others has enough speed to do a credible job there for an extended period if needed.

So with my concerns at the 5 and 7 techniques I think the best solution would be drafting Williams who has the size to handle the 5 if he keeps his hips low and has all the tools to handle the 7. He's a little smaller than Kelly, but if he keeps his butt low he can bull rush the consistently bigger guys he'll meet in the NFL. He's got the speed to get around the corner quicker than Kelly, and could definitely work into a killer line rotation moving from 7 to 5 and possibly even the 3 at times.

There it is.
 
Last edited:
Rupert said:
If we didn't have to run a nickel defense all season we might have seen even better production from this line. The collection of youth and experience kept these guys fairly productive all season. So let me get into the swing and break it down.

Bobby Hamilton is the consummate professional. He stands up against the run and he pushes his man into the backfield to get the occassional opportunity for a sack. He's not starter material anymore, but he is better than almost any backup you can find for his lockerroom presence and his work ethic.

Warren Sapp spent a year out of position and looked like a man reborn when he returned to his most productive position, the 3 technique DT. With one-gap penetrating responsibilities he's a monster at disrupting both running and passing games. His shoulder injury and age will be problems for his return, but they won't be big ones.

Derrick Burgess is the real deal and another Al Davis steal, just add him to the list. Burgess was a LOT better against the run than we had been led to believe, and he was everything he was supposed to be when rushing the passer. He was susceptible to fakes and could be baited, but he learned very quickly to control his desire to make the big play on every down and wound up making more of them as the season wore on.

Ted Washington wore down faster as the season progressed. If he comes back next year he'd better come off the bench.

Tyler Brayton: I have no basis for this conclusion, but I get the feeling that he's a product of steroids. I extrapolate that belief into the Raiders deciding to downsize him to linebacker. And believe it or not, I believe he's done a decent job in limitted situations as a backer. I don't think he belongs on this list because I think he struggles to keep weight on (which is why I believe he was taking steroids - that and the stereotypical steroid neanderthal forehead and brow).

Tommy Kelly is the consummate defensive lineman and the perfect Al Davis defensive lineman. He can play inside and out (3 & 5-technique tackles), and he plays both very well. He's a modern-day Howie Long. Really. Like Howie he's strong enough to bull rush any O-lineman one-on-one. Like Howie he's quick enough to split interior linemen and make an inside move on an OT. He's not as fast as Howie was around the corner, but in today's NFL if you're that quick, you're not likely to be strong enough to bull rush, it's a very rare combination today and becoming more rare as we breathe (okay, maybe not that fast). Kelly is the man. He's got all the raw skills and believe it or not still has room to grow. None of his techniques are particularly obvious, so he's either not too good at them, or he doesn't really use them. In either case, if he develops them, he'll become better.

Anttaj Hawthorne is a raw talent. He gets good leverage one-on-one with a bull rush and has enough quickness to split doubleteams. He has the potential to be very disruptive.

Ryan Riddle is a tweener, no question. If the Raiders stay with the 4-3 he'll get reps as a down lineman. And in the event Burgess goes down, he'll get reps as the pass rusher. If it's back to the 3-4 Riddle will get on the field very quickly as an OLB.

Terdell Sands showed great progress this season, mostly toward the end when he got plenty of reps spelling Washington. He learned to keep his center of gravity low(er) and wasn't blown out as frequently against the double team. He showed some nice short-range quickness when he found a seam, and started his career as a disruptive force as a nose tackle. Can he keep it up. If the Raiders are going to be successful next season, he'll have to, and he'll have to gain some endurance because he too wore down in games (not over the season like Washington which shows the effects of age, but during the game).

Ed Jasper is excellent depth. He played both the 3 & 5-technique tackle spots and had moments where he made plays. Late in the half is where he is most effective, and bringing him back for depth wouldn't be a bad idea.

At nose tackle: if Washington hangs it up, Sands will have to step up and handle it as the starter, and Hawthorne will have to get the nose tackle spot down as the primary backup, a task I don't know if either is up to. I'd be worried if Washington hangs it up, and if he's leaning that way, I might want a replacement. The Raiders have been VERY successful getting beef late in the draft and I'd rather go that route than early in the draft.

At the 3-technique: Sapp is on the downslide but can still be effective, Kelly showed as much productivity as Sapp in the last couple games and could be the heir apparent, Jasper is credible depth in the event of injury. Hawthorne has the game of a 3-technique right now, but he has the size to play the nose. He could be depth at both positions if Washington can stay and be effective. I don't see depth problems here.

The 5-technique is often referred to as a defensive end who is responsible for every snap on defense and has to hold up against the run and rush the passer. Kelly does a great job here and could very well be the starter next year if Sapp returns. Hamilton is on the downside of his career, but he's a valuable backup. Jasper also does a credible job when he's out here, but I wouldn't want to rely on him. I'm worried about the depth here. Hamilton and Jasper are old, and when Brayton, Grant, or Irons got time here when Kelly was inside, they were ALL ineffective.

The 7-technique is the traditional rush end and Derrick Burgess looks like he can handle it every down with a little help here and there to keep him fresh or when a team goes run happy. Behind him there are a bunch of contenders Brayton, Grant, Irons, and Riddle. I haven't seen anything from Riddle as an end and i don't think any of the others has enough speed to do a credible job there for an extended period if needed.

So with my concerns at the 5 and 7 techniques I think the best solution would be drafting Williams who has the size to handle the 5 if he keeps his hips low and has all the tools to handle the 7. He's a little smaller than Kelly, but if he keeps his butt low he can bull rush the consistently bigger guys he'll meet in the NFL. He's got the speed to get around the corner quicker than Kelly, and could definitely work into a killer line rotation moving from 7 to 5 and possibly even the 3 at times.

There it is.
REP!

Excellent. You're too fucking good! :cool:
 
I think this break down deserves some extra attention, in spite of Bones essentially doubling my post (just scroll on by).
 
If we don't get Mario Williams then I am more than happy going into next season with Kelly at DE. I think many Raider fans overlooked the impact he had from the position. It might not reflect in his stats but he blew up a lot of plays in the backfield IMO. I guess you could mark him down as my favorite Raider "who will never sell a jersey."
 
gst8 - Agreed. Someone else actually pointed this out, but many of Warren Sapp's sacks during the middle of the season were the result of Tommy Kelly pushing the pocket into Sapps direction. Plus he's stout against the run which allows us to give more support to Burgess (who is "small") on the other side.
 
Comparing Kelly to Howie Long tells you what I think about the guy. He's just about everything you want in a DL. If he had a little more speed to turn the corner he'd be it. Oh well. The guy will just improve as far as I can tell.

The reason I like adding Williams is that he can play at least both end positions, and could be a pressure kind of guy when we go with a 3-man line in either the 3-4 or a dime/prevent defense. He's tall and could add some kick blocking to the defense. Just imagine Sands, Walker and Williams in the middle 6-8, 6-8, 6-7 driving at your freaking kicker trying to ace it late in the game. Sorry bitch you need to kick that a little higher. Awww, it fell short. Sorry, you don't advance in the playoffs.

There are just so many reason to like Williams. And adding him to our resurgent DL would take us to the upper echelon of the NFL.
 
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