Al Prefers Collins?

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Angry Pope

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Take it for what it is worth...from Newsday.com....highlighted...

Bob Glauber

FOOTBALL


February 5, 2006


By the time his general manager duties were stripped after the 2002 season, the consensus was clear: Mike Holmgren was far better off as the Seahawks' coach, not their chief personnel man.

Upon further review, Holmgren has proven to be a far better talent evaluator than he's been given credit for.


His Seahawks are in the Super Bowl, largely because of the players he brought in during his run as coach/GM from 1999-2002. Consider:

In perhaps his most important move, Holmgren took Shaun Alexander in the first round of the 2000 draft. The pick was considered somewhat risky, because Holmgren also made a move with another running back for which he was heavily criticized. He dealt Ahman Green to the Packers for cornerback Fred Vinson. Green starred almost immediately for the Packers; Vinson never got onto the field for Seattle because of knee problems. In the end, though, Holmgren was vindicated; Alexander has turned into a dominant back who was named the league's MVP this season.

Holmgren traded for Packers backup quarterback Matt Hasselbeck before the 2001 season, though Hasselbeck never had started an NFL game. Holmgren was so impressed with Hasselbeck from their days together in Green Bay that he believed the quarterback projected as a legitimate starter. Hasselbeck has experienced his best season in the NFL in leading the Seahawks to the Super Bowl.

The same year he traded for Hasselbeck, Holmgren selected guard Steve Hutchinson as his first-round pick. Hutchinson has become a featured member of an offensive line that might be the best in football. Lined up next to left tackle Walter Jones, a first-round pick in 1997, Hutchinson has developed into arguably the top guard in the game.

On Hutchinson's other side is center Robbie Tobeck, signed by Holmgren as a free agent from Atlanta. Tobeck's veteran savvy at this key position is another reason for the line's success.

Another of Holmgren's draft-day prizes: wide receiver Darrell Jackson, a third-round choice in 2000. Jackson has been a mostly-under-the-radar receiver compared with the likes of Randy Moss, Terrell Owens and Marvin Harrison, but he has become a reliable playmaker who has had a terrific playoff run. Holmgren beefed up the receiving corps even further in 2001 by adding free agent Bobby Engram from the Bears.

If Holmgren's run as a general manager had a weakness, it was that he didn't fix the defense fast enough. Bob Ferguson, who took over Holmgren's personnel duties in 2003 and 2004, did a good job in adding defensive end Grant Wistrom and cornerback Marcus Trufant, both of whom have been cornerstone players this season. And new president and general manager Tim Ruskell, the former Bucs and Falcons executive, brought in middle linebacker Lofa Tatupu in 2005; Tatupu has proven to be a difference-maker already as a rookie.

But Holmgren's overall body of work hasn't been as bad as it once looked. You could argue that if he hadn't made the moves, particularly on offense, during his time as GM, the Seahawks wouldn't be where they are today.

T.O.'s next stop

There appeared to be only a remote chance that the Eagles would be able to trade wide receiver Terrell Owens, especially with teams knowing that they were on the hook for $7 million in bonus money payable to Owens starting March 9.

But with multiple teams showing interest in Owens, the likelihood of Philly making a deal has increased. Here's one stumbling block, though. While Miami, Denver, Kansas City and Tampa Bay have expressed interest in trading for the 32-year-old receiver, the Cowboys' interest might trump the rest. But the Eagles certainly won't be willing to trade Owens to a divisional rival.

So what would prevent the Eagles from trading Owens to any number of suitors other than the Cowboys? Well, Owens essentially controls where he goes, because he won't be willing to report to any team unless he gets a suitable contract offer. If, for instance, the Broncos want to sign him to an incentive-laden deal to protect themselves in the event Owens blows up as he did in Philadelphia, Owens simply can refuse to report if he believes another team -- ostensibly the Cowboys -- is willing to give him the bonus money he is seeking.

Raiders up next

As expected, the Raiders will be the last team to hire a coach. One reason is team owner Al Davis is waiting for the Super Bowl to end so he can interview Steelers offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt. Another reason: Davis is unwilling to spend huge dollars on a head coach; he has never paid more than $1.5 million a season for a coach. Yet another reason: Davis is said to want to gauge Whisenhunt's interest in quarterback Kerry Collins, whose contract must be restructured during the offseason because of salary- cap concerns.

If Whisenhunt doesn't believe in Collins, it's conceivable Davis will consider former Giants coach Jim Fassel, who has told friends he believes Collins still can be an effective quarterback. Fassel helped Collins and the Giants get to the Super Bowl after the 2000 season. Davis is said to prefer keeping Collins despite his struggles last season.


Extra points

Saints running back Deuce McAllister is doing well in his rehab from knee surgery and expects to be ready by the start of training camp. The Saints need to know how effective McAllister can be, especially because they have the second overall draft pick. If the Texans don't take USC running back Reggie Bush -- it's still a good bet he'll go to Houston -- the Saints will have a tough decision. Do they pass on Bush and take USC quarterback Matt Leinart or Texas quarterback Vince Young? Or do they pass on a quarterback and take Bush?

There's a chance the Vikings will file tampering charges against the Jaguars after former Vikings coach Mike Tice, now the assistant head coach in Jacksonville, said on a Jacksonville radio station that he already had contacted one of the Vikings' prospective unrestricted free agents. Because the free-agency signing period doesn't begin until March 3, team officials are technically prohibited from contacting players on other teams, although it's generally common practice that they reach out through intermediaries, usually agents . . .

The thinking among some Vikings officials is that quarterback Daunte Culpepper, who has complained about his contract situation in recent weeks, eventually will take a less hostile stance and remain with the team. Culpepper is on schedule in his rehab from a horrific knee injury in which he tore three ligaments, although he still might not be ready for the start of the regular season. If he's not, Brad Johnson will be the starter . . .

Mike Martz should have taken the Lions' offensive coordinator job. Instead, he said he'll sit out the season and hope to get back in the league next season as a head coach. He couldn't come to terms on a contract agreement with the Lions, although there is talk the Lions remain interested in hiring him. The feeling here is Martz should have taken less money and given himself an even better chance to get a head-coaching job by improving the Lions' chronically underachieving offense. Because of his frequent run-ins with Rams management, there is a belief among several teams that Martz is a liability as a head coach. Proving himself again as an offensive coordinator in a different situation would have improved his stock.


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Gah! Collins keeps getting all these excuses made for him. He sucks and there is no way he is going to take us to the promise land. I hope Al wouldn't base his head coaching decision on Collins. I will hate Collins even more if Al brings in Fassel. Hopefully Al is not that stupid and sticks with Whisenhunt regardless of his opinion of Collins.
 
The problem is that there is no alternative to Collins right now. Al Davis doesn't believe in starting a kid who's wet behind the ears (Walter) and knows Tui isn't the deep threat QB he wants running the show. There aren't any really good options on the free agent market either. So what's the only logical course? Make the most of what we've got in house, Collins, who's been to a SuperBowl before.

Not the best thing we can do, but the best option we have for next season, unfortunately.
 
Man, there are moves...granted, they are pricey and dicey, but Al has been showing a win now mentality, mostly because of his declining health.

I am sorry, but anyone with the exception of Aaron Brooks is welcome to knock Collins the hell out of Oakland.
 
That's what I mean. The moves don't guarantee an upgrade, and don't guarantee bang for the buck. Some of them don't guarantee immediate impact.

Collins can do well if we keep the D out of his face. He can do well if we can establish the run to keep the number of throws down. He can do well if play action becomes a legitimate fake for the D (was anyone REALLY biting up on our play action last year?). If we set up better route packages, he will do better.

If we don't improve the O line it won't matter who we bring in, the results won't be much better.

I'll grant that there are at least 5 ways the offense can improve without replacing Collins. Replacing Collins with one of the available QB's might permit us to delay fixing a couple of those 5 problems, but fixing several of them would improve Collins's performance as well.

The question remains: the devil you know or the devil you don't?
 
Rupert said:
The question remains: the devil you know or the devil you don't?

That's like saying we should have kept Norv Turner...I mean, seriously? I mean it may just be because I played QB in HS, or am an offensive coordinator for a 7th and 8th grade team, but Collins is just beyond repair for me. He has poor mechanics, poor desision making, terrible poise, and doesn't lead on the field.
He does have a live arm, 1 out of 5 ain't bad?

There are plenty of options, and you cannot have a good offense without a good QB, or at least one that can manage a game. We have plenty of options, just depends on what kinda of costs.

I really think the kid Walter should get the nod, especially if the Whiz and Whip come in. They obviously can tudor a young QB. I think he's got the tools.

If Al wants to be Al though, he won't take that chance. There are some people that can get us through Walter's development phase, plus Walter is already chipped up and injury prone. Garrard or Schaub fit the bill well.
 
Well this is all the proof you need....Al Is Senile!! :rolleyes:
 
JC said:
That's like saying we should have kept Norv Turner...I mean, seriously? I mean it may just be because I played QB in HS, or am an offensive coordinator for a 7th and 8th grade team, but Collins is just beyond repair for me. He has poor mechanics, poor desision making, terrible poise, and doesn't lead on the field...
If Al wants to be Al though, he won't take that chance. There are some people that can get us through Walter's development phase, plus Walter is already chipped up and injury prone. Garrard or Schaub fit the bill well.
It's not like saying we should have kept Turner. Turner affected all 53 guys, Collins only fouls up one starting position. Remember, Collins didn't screw up the New York Giants' bid to get to the SuperBowl, he did screw up their ability to win it, but...

So what you're saying is: dump Collins, forget Tui and Walter, and pick up a free agent with a couple games under the hood and go with him?
 
I agree with rupert big tome.

Collins isn't the best QB in the world but if we can give him some help he'll be servicable.

And no, NOBODY was biting on our play action lastg year. Why would they?
 
Rupert said:
So what you're saying is: dump Collins, forget Tui and Walter, and pick up a free agent with a couple games under the hood and go with him?

I believe go with Walter was the tone that was going for...depending on staffing..."greatness of the Raiders is in it's future"

I hate eyesores at QB, seriously...Collins is not serviceable, how many times did that mouth-breather overthrow, layout, poor desision us in to a loss. Turner does affect 53 people, Collins effects the entire offense. Why wouldn't you jam us early so we can't establish the run? You think Kerry will beat you? Ha
 
Okay JC. Just wanted to know where you stood.

For the record, I don't want Collins back there again; however, we face a couple issues: 1) Walters isn't ready, and 2) Al won't start the season with a QB who isn't ready as the starter (since he doesn't like losing on purpose - I guess you could argue that hiring Turner was losing on purpose :D ).

Pope posted this elsewhere:
Here are the top free agents ranked and graded...

QB

Drew Brees QB 6-0 209 7.5 Unrestricted San Diego
Jon Kitna QB 6-2 225 7.0 Unrestricted Cincinnati
Chris Simms QB 6-4 220 6.8 Restricted Tampa Bay
Kurt Warner QB 6-2 219 6.8 Unrestricted Arizona
Josh McCown QB 6-4 213 6.7 Unrestricted Arizona
Brees is Tui with accomplishments, would Al dump the bombs-away offense to steal Brees from Snotty and San Diego? Interesting, but I don't think SD lets him go.
Kitna sucks. He's Tui with 2 more inches. Tui has done well off then bench, and imploded as a starter. Kitna had a good middle of his career, but doesn't have the legs to last many games as the starter. Pass.
Simms is a little better than Brees arm-wise and will be able to see over the O-Line better, but Tampa is going to hold onto him or they're in the tank again. I'd take him, but I don't think he'll be there.
Warner is toast, toast soaked in milk. Pass.
McCown is a scattergun and scatterbrain, but he's improving. I'm betting Arizona keeps him, and I only see him as an improvment over Collins because he "can" get better.
 
Yeah...I don't like any of those guys either...I don't really like much of anyone that we could possibly acquire (the Culpepper rumor intrigues me, I think if Al seriously found a way to get that done, he's an evil genius)

It's so hard to say if Walter is ready or not...I agree the pros are the pros, but he was a potential first rounder before he got hurt in college, he's an accomplished college passer (broke Elway's Pac 10 Record), we saw the poise and potential last preseason(I hope he at least makes it to backup, maybe get some work with the first O)

I think if we get Whisenhunt and Whipple...it's a better probability that Walter will get the nod, as CB has said in the past, we can't keep wasting first day picks on QB's if we aren't going to play them. I dunno what mentality most of us have, but I think we would have had the same record with Walter in at QB as we had with Collins last season, rather see learning at the helm than never improving.

Another thing in this development, if we get those two guys from the Steelers, convince Rich Gannon to be a QB coach. Supposedly he is a big fan of Walter, they spent alot of time on film before Rich really decided to hang it up. That just has the marks of success all over it. I can stomach another poor campaign as long as we are building for something great.
 
First, I don't like any of the FA quarterbackes any better than Collins. So given that, I'd just stick with what we have cuz at least we know what that is...good and bad. We all know that unless that OL is a lot better no quaterback will be able to do much. If the OL plays a lot better we're gonna be OK...the running game will be a threat which it was not last year and that opens a lot of things up for the offense. Protection is the key for Collins to have a good year.

Andrew Walter...that's an interstinng idea about Walter instead of Collins last year. Yes, we probably couldn't have been any worse. But that isn't the way Al plays his cards so even if Walter was 100% that would never have happened. Walter will get his shot if somebody gets injured. Al will go into 2006 thinking playoffs and maybe more. That's how he is. Gotta love that. (The thing that bothers me as I mentioned before is wasting day one picks on QB's who never seem to play)

Gannon as QB coach? I love that idea. Gannon seems to like the Raiders organization. He may have a place here sooner or later. I'd love to see him get his feet wet as a QB coach and eventually move up to OC if things fall right.
 
What if Al Decides to draft...say....Jay Cutler? Do you start him right away? I say yes.
 
RaiderIVlife said:
What if Al Decides to draft...say....Jay Cutler? Do you start him right away? I say yes.
Problem: Al won't start a rookie. Why? Because Al is playing to WIN NOW. That's his mentality and from that standpoint you can't argue. He's a competitor. That's why he never takes QB high in thre draft. He likes to let other teams groom QB and he gets them late in their careers after they have made all the mistakes and mastered the learning curve. (supposedly).

Who knows? Al.
 
CrossBones said:
I agree with rupert big tome.

Collins isn't the best QB in the world but if we can give him some help he'll be servicable.

And no, NOBODY was biting on our play action lastg year. Why would they?

well, i dunno


I really do no want fassell as our coach cause
 
JC - Agree 100%. If the Raiders don't don't select a QB (which is likely the case anyway), then I'd like to see us allow Andrew Walter every opportunity to win the starting job during camp, retain Collins as veteran insurance, make a serious play for Steve Hutchinson & Tony Fonoti, followed up the drafting of Mario Williams with our first pick.

I'd consider that a Homerun offseason. Anything else would be gravy.
 
Here is some info on Leinart...

Leinart's hero is Brett Favre, the Green Bay quarterback. His family roots for the Oakland Raiders. Yet, Leinart concedes he wasn't always interested in football
.
 
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