3 offensive line questions

fatdog

fatdog

Lower your fucking standards
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1. What is the most crucial position on the line?

2. how important is coaching ( hof coaching staff) to the success of the line?

3. how do you really judge 1st and 2nd rd o-line talent coming out of college?
 
fatdog said:
1. What is the most crucial position on the line?
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No brainer IMO... Center... You can scheme around average OT's and plug and play guards, but your center getting ass beat disrupts pretty much everything... Grove has been awful this year and unfortunately there is no free agent center to speak of... Having a great center like Barrett Robbins or Olin Kruetz affords you the ability to do other things with the rest of the line...

2. how important is coaching ( hof coaching staff) to the success of the line?
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Very much so IMO... The ability to teach doesn't necessarily come with that Hall of Fame entrance though...


3. how do you really judge 1st and 2nd rd o-line talent coming out of college?
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Like every position, watching game film should be the prime vehicle... Far too much importance is put on SR Bowl drills and workout numbers... The best way to see if a guy can play is to watch him under the fire of competition going in full pads at full speed...
 
I echo HB's thoughts on this. The center is the guy that needs to be able to call out blocking assignments and defend the QB up the middle. Guard's deficiencies can be hidden via assistance from the C and T, while a Tackle's deficiencies can be helped by the G on the inside and a TE on the outside.
Ditto for 2 & 3
 
Part of the reason why the Raiders franchise played better overall during the Otto, Mosebar & Robbins years.
 
the most important position? most often is Left Tackle. He protects your QBs blindside and has very little help. Center is the next most important as its his job to call out blcoking schemes and hes normally the guy people go through to get the shortest path to the QB. Scheme is more important then the actual coaching IMO. And the talent of guys coming out of college is quite easy to judge for the offensive line as its one of the few positions that doesnt change a lot as far as whats important.
 
Langlier said:
the most important position? most often is Left Tackle. He protects your QBs blindside and has very little help. Center is the next most important as its his job to call out blcoking schemes and hes normally the guy people go through to get the shortest path to the QB. Scheme is more important then the actual coaching IMO. And the talent of guys coming out of college is quite easy to judge for the offensive line as its one of the few positions that doesnt change a lot as far as whats important.
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Which makes the Raiders missing on Grove & Gallery even more perplexing IMO. Langston was always regarded as a reach in the 2nd round, but I'll give Al a pass on that one. He thought he saw the next Lincoln Kennedy. You've gotta swing for the fences sometimes, but Grove & Gallery were regarded as pro-bowlers waiting to happen.

I think when you start to hear whispers about "lack of heart" or "lack of toughness" in the game of football, you should listen. I heard both of those grumblings about Gallery and chose to ignore them.
 
Honestly... The gallery scapegoating is getting to me... He isn't the pro bowl LT we all envisioned we were getting... but hes not the worst LT we've had in years... In fact hes better then Sims was at a lot of things... hes just getting less help.
 
Langlier said:
Honestly... The gallery scapegoating is getting to me... He isn't the pro bowl LT we all envisioned we were getting... but hes not the worst LT we've had in years... In fact hes better then Sims was at a lot of things... hes just getting less help.
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Damn, I'd like to think your opinion is correct, but..............I just don't see it. If he needs that much help, then he's still by definition a "bust" IMO. For a man that has good straight line speed, he plays incredibly slow and that dude is SOFT man, I'm telling you.
 
Barry Sims was very bad at blocking speed rushers. Robert Gallery has been bad at blocking ANY rushers.

Advantage: Sims.

I'm not just piling on either. I was one of the guys who didn't buy the hype and said all along that Gallery was not going to ever be in that Pace/Ogden/Jones class, no matter what Kiper and ESPN had to say on the subject. That said, I don't think he's as bad as he's looked to this point either. You talk about a kid that needs to rediscover his "mean streak" though... Robert's the freakin' poster child. He looks like the dude who used to be a badass until one time he got his ass kicked, got his pride hurt, and now is too timid to make a fist.

Somebody... anybody... hell, Vince Vaughan, if need be... needs to corner Robert Gallery in the locker room and tell him, "You know what you are? You're like a big bear with claws and with fangs..."
 
"and he's looking at these claws and he doesnt' know what to do with them..."

"You're Money. You're Money and you don't even know it..."


Bwahahahahahaha

What a classic movie.
 
I would add one more point that continuity seems to me to be a factor. The line has to play as a unit, with each person knowing their role and trusting teammates to do their jobs.
 
TheNextStep said:
... Robert's the freakin' poster child. He looks like the dude who used to be a badass until one time he got his ass kicked, got his pride hurt, and now is too timid to make a fist.
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This reminded me of Madden's book "One Knee equals two feet" (or something like that) that I read when I was 12 or 13 years old. He talked about how hard it was to teach linemen to be aggressive because they grew up being bigger than everybody else and being told to be nice and how they shouldn't use their size to their advantage. He used to have some sort of drill or something designed specifically to teach the linemen to be aggressive and mean on the field. Maybe Art needs to reinstitute that part of practice.
 
Possible option at center?

As Lions DT Shaun Rogers limps away from the season, there is a question of where he fits in Rod Marinelli's plans for next year -- if at all. "He had the big one (Seattle)," Marinelli said Wednesday. "He had a good game, I thought, against Buffalo. He was a load in there. "The thing we've got to do is get him in top shape. Hopefully, we'll get him cleaned up, get all the surgeries he needs to have, get him rehabbed, get him ready for the offseason." Some hard decisions must be made on a number of players -- and Rogers' future is at the top of the list. Cornerback Dré Bly and offensive linemen Ross Verba and Damien Woody are at stages in their contracts where their future with the team has to be assessed.
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Plays RG for the Lions now, but was a great center at New England once upon a time... IF Woody hits the market, he'd be a good guy to build the line around...
 
I'd be down for signing Woody... but he needs to get back into playing shape. Ever since he signed that contract with Detroit he's cashed it in, let himself go, and become a marginal player.

If we can get the "New England" Woody? Yeah, sign me up.
 
Thats interesting stuff on Shaun Rogers. I guess he didn't hit it off with Marinelli this year. And his 4-game suspension pissed off the front office.
 
Raider Nation said:
I'd be down for signing Woody... but he needs to get back into playing shape. Ever since he signed that contract with Detroit he's cashed it in, let himself go, and become a marginal player.

If we can get the "New England" Woody? Yeah, sign me up.
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Almost seems like he figured he needed some extra weight when the Pats moved him to RG that year... If he can stay in the 315-320 range as a center, who knows... It's not even a given he'll be on the market... and it's a longshot at best that we'll pay the man if he did...

That sumbitch Grove was supposed to anchor this line for a decade....



What's the options?

* Hope Grove gets noticably stronger?
* Resign Corey Hulsey and play him strictly as a center?
* Move Gallery from OT to center ala Dan Mosebar?
* Draft a guy?

I dunno, I watched Kyle Young close this year figuring he might end up in the mix... Considering his funky stance and after watching him get ragdolled consistently in both the Oregon and Hawaii games, I think he's better off at guard... I'm iffy on Ryan Kalil as well as he's not as strong as I like... After watching Grove, I'd like to get back to having a mauler in there...

Doug Datish, Sampson Satele or Josh Beekman would all work for me if Woody doesn't free up...
 
Raiders use siple inside zone blocking during the run and occassionaly will toss in a stretch zone blocking scheme

Jake Groves problem his and I should say most of the OL's problem is that they take to big of steps and leave gaps for the NT to come crashing through, It should be the responisbility of Grove and the LG to double the NT and 2nd tier the Mike

When they do run stretch zone blockiing they just dont keep their shoulder square with the LOS.. Ya gotta have guys that can move horizontially and keep their shoulder sqaure.. This is how the Chiefs and Broncos are effective running the ball

Which is why I'm high on getting a RB with instincts.. Lamont Jordan simply does not have any to be able to make that first quick decision

The Line should direct his first couple of steps, and the point at which he gets the hand-off from the QB, but from there it's his responsibility to find a seam.

The Center is the most crucial part of the line me thinks

I have been very disappointed in Grove, I thought he would turn out to be a very solid center
 
Ugly Nipples said:
Which is why I'm high on getting a RB with instincts.. Lamont Jordan simply does not have any to be able to make that first quick decision
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Man I'm really torn here. I keep jumping from one idea back to the next...

QB > RB > OL :eek:

On one hand I think Jordan, Fargas and Lee can get the job done with a little better line play and scheme. On the other hand I'd love to have the "franchise" QB. I don't want to build around Johnson but that's probably the way it's going to go down with the measurables this cat is sporting.

At this point I have to make a decision (I do reserve the right to change my mind multiple times):

Let the Meshawn Lynch jihad begin!

I've been watching this guy on films that are floating around. Dude is sick. He's more LT like than Peterson and doesn't have the question mark (I don't think) of these nagging injuries. Add the homegrown factor and the fact he's probably got his basement decorated in Silver & Black and we might have the next Marcus Allen minus the feuding. I'm also hearing that Lynch's stock is already rising and that in all reality it's probably a coin flip between him and Peterson. In any event the people thinking he's going to last until the mid teens are probably mistaken. Top 10 RB I think.
 
hawaiianboy said:
That sumbitch Grove was supposed to anchor this line for a decade....



What's the options?

* Hope Grove gets noticably stronger?
* Resign Corey Hulsey and play him strictly as a center?
* Move Gallery from OT to center ala Dan Mosebar?
* Draft a guy?
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I just have a funny feeling that we probably won't draft any centers and Grove will win the center position by default next season.
 
I don't see Morant ever being much of a factor for us.
 
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