Trading up.

Discussion in 'Raiders War Room' started by Crow, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. Crow

    Crow You wouldn't get it.

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    I don't know what the consensus is here, but I'm wagering that Mario Williams is a pretty popular choice. I know he's my personal jihad.

    Here's the problem, though. NY may let Abraham walk and look to Mario as a replacement. Green Bay may let Aaron Kampman walk and look to Mario as a replacement. Other teams may try to move up for him. If we want this guy, we may need to offer NY a pretty decent deal and at least leapfrog Green Bay and cockblock anyone else trying to trade up for him.

    I think he's worth it. What say you all?
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2006
  2. gst8

    gst8 Well-Known Member

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    It depends on what it would cost us to move up. We have to many holes to fill to give up first day picks IMO. Mario is my first choice but I wouldn't be disapointed if we stay put and take Ngata or Hawk.
     
  3. Rupert

    Rupert The Long Wind

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    Personally, I'd rather trade up and grab Mario.

    If Al Davis wants John Abraham, he'll go that route and grab someone else in the draft.

    My philosophy is to have young talent on defense and veteran talent on offense whenever possible.

    On defense, the pure brutal fury of a young stud will go farther than a cagey veteran playing purely on guile. Witness Ted Washington. He's got all the tricks in the book, but he just wears down as both the game and the season tick along. Terdell Sands is not nearly as talented as Ted, but when the season was winding down he was more effective than Ted. It's not universal, but generally so.

    Abraham would give us a great kick on the DL, but our biggest problems are on the OL. That's where we need solid vets to immediately improve. We could live with a breaking period on the DL. Williams will need some seasoning for sure, but almost every DL in the league rotates guys in and out to keep them fresh, you don't see that happening on the OL, so you can't cover up a guy's shortcomings there.

    Bottom line: veteran OL's and youth on D (and maybe a kid at RB/FB).
     
  4. JC

    JC Dark Age of RN

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    Be interesting to see if Abraham ends up here...I wouldn't mind the pipeline from the Jets.

    I think if anything, we should look to move down if possible if Mario is not there, Tamba Hali, Kiwi, Huff, Greenway or Demeco Ryans and maybe another pick could really help us out also.
     
  5. gst8

    gst8 Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious what peoples opinions are on the difference in value between Williams and Ngata? Is it worth giving up a 2nd rounder for? I'm sure thats what NY is going to ask for in exchange for swapping picks with us. This draft is deep in LB talent and there are sure to be some blue chip prospects availabe at 38/39. Ngata plus a top LB is worth more that Williams IMO. Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2006
  6. CrossBones

    CrossBones The Black Pearl

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    NO. IMO Williams is a prize but not worth giving up a second by any means. We have to continue the youth movement on defense. In fact I love Rupert's take on drafting defense and bringing in vets to fix the offense. It's always worked like that for the Raiders throughout the years. No sense changing now.

    I pray for Williams but really don't think he'll be around. Maybe a 3rd or 4th to move up if we knew we could get Williams but that probably isn't going to be enough.

    As for Ngata, I've heard some bad stuff about this guy. Couldn't really say I know myself as I've only seen him play twice. Heard he takes plays off, looks fat and slow and has regressed this year. Anybody have an first hand knowledge?

    As for Williams, at 6'6" 290 he is the prototype DE that the Raiders have lacked probably since Greg Townsend. The guy could be a fixture at DE for us for 10 years!
     
  7. Rupert

    Rupert The Long Wind

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    I don't think any player in the draft is worth a 1st and a 2nd. When Ditka gave up the entire draft for Ricky Williams I thought he wanted some of Ricky's stash since he had run out of the good stuff. NO player is THAT good. Not a single one. I know people have that wonderful draft pick evaluator thing-a-ma-bob to evaluate the pick value, but come on, that's just fun and games. Draft well every year and you don't need to trade your entire draft for one player.

    1st and a 4th? I'd do that. 1st this year and a 3rd next year? I'd do that. 1st and swap our 2nd for their 3rd? Yep. Okay, enough.

    At some point you have to let it go. That's why I personally try not to get attached to players in the draft. This is the closest I've been to really wanting a player in the draft in a long time. The last time was Shaun Alexander. Didn't land him did we? So much for what I want.
     
  8. JC

    JC Dark Age of RN

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    Mine was Ben Rothlisberger, I had a feeling but got talked out of it, because of Al not wanting to draft QB's. Ugh!
     
  9. gst8

    gst8 Well-Known Member

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    On a side note... There seems to be some media speculation that N.O. wants to trade out of the #2 spot. Apparently they have some financial concerns and don't want to pay that much for a rookie. Now thats what dreams are made of. ;)
     
  10. JC

    JC Dark Age of RN

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    Is Matt Leinart worth that kinda gamble? Is he Tom Brady or is he Chad Pennington? That doesn't surprise me that NOLA wants to move.
     
  11. gst8

    gst8 Well-Known Member

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    Put me in the Brady camp but I'm certainly no expert. Actually, for the first time in years I can't see myself disapointed regardless who we draft.
     
  12. CrossBones

    CrossBones The Black Pearl

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    Trade up for Matt Leinart?

    Well of course it depends on what...again I don't think we would want to give that much. Think back to teams that have traded up like one spot and they mortgaged the future. Not want I want to see done.

    Having said that I'd sure like Matt Leinart. But it puts up in the same position we are now.

    So let's just continue with the Super Mario jihad! :D
     
  13. JC

    JC Dark Age of RN

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    Yeah, I am in the same boat CB, we may as well throw Walter to the lions if we want to go young at QB.

    Draft me some defense, and lots of it!
     
  14. CrossBones

    CrossBones The Black Pearl

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    Yeah, that's the problem. We can't keep drafting our QB of the future in the second and third rounds only to let them wilt on the bench forever.

    Leniart is a nice thought but if Al passed on Roethlisberger I'm not sure he will ever draft a QB high in the first round unless another Elway surfaces.

    Bring me Mario Williams and I'm a happy camper. A.J. Hawk would be my second choice as of right now.

    ^^^^^^^
    Note: I reserve the right to change my mind multiple times! :p
     
  15. JC

    JC Dark Age of RN

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    Me too, Crow and his bowl game appearance sold me on Mario Williams. But I really like Huff from Texas, a safety that calls the plays on the field. :eek:
     
  16. Crow

    Crow You wouldn't get it.

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    Well, if we can trade Moss for a 1st round pick, I'd be content to give NY a 3rd round pick to trade up...maybe a 2nd. :D
     
  17. JC

    JC Dark Age of RN

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    Crow, quit trying to dump Moss...seriously...
     
  18. Crow

    Crow You wouldn't get it.

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    Just trying to help the team go in the right direction, man. That extra 1st round pick would probably score us a new safety, or possibly even a good DT.
     
  19. JC

    JC Dark Age of RN

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    With TO about to be cut...there isn't a market for Randy Moss.

    His season, for any other receiver wouldn't have been too bad. Yes, I agree, his route running is poor. There really isn't a better weapon in the red zone, we need to score points.
     
  20. JC

    JC Dark Age of RN

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    Well, the way everything is shaking down...I think we are going to try to dance with our favorite partner the Jets.

    We'll trade up and nab Mario, they'll trade back so they can take Jay Cutler. I just don't want to give up too much...anything higher than a 4th is stupid.