The STADIUM Thread ver 2.0

Discussion in 'Raiders Discussion' started by CrossBones, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. Sleet

    Sleet #2016: Jack's 2nd Year The Charm?

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  2. gst8

    gst8 Well-Known Member

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    I hear what you're saying but let's be honest, the support in Oakland and LA wasn't exactly stellar in down times either. The tarp on Mt Davis tells you all you need to know about that. It sucks and I'd probably rather they just stay in that shit hole than move but that's not reality.
     
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  3. DonkeyKilla

    DonkeyKilla Well-Known Member

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    I get the hate, I do. I wish they could stay in Oakland but Oakland doesn't want them. I went to two other stadiums this year (Tampa and SD) and the Raider support in both was tremendous, this is a team that travels well. I think people of Las Vegas will embrace the Raiders and that will be a base that you can add to with fans coming in from CA and around the country. I'd bet that more LA fans will go to Vegas than would have to Oakland so there's that. End of day, I'd rather them in Vegas than LA or just about anywhere else, and my guess is that stadium will be packed as long as we are a winning team.
     
  4. JohnQ

    JohnQ Media hater

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    I'm quit to pile on Oakland.But bottom line is that nothing has happened.So do what you got to do.Part of that equation is attendance Long Term.There are plenty of groups and booster clubs nationwide that will attend Damn near wherever they play.The question is over time is it sustainable?
     
  5. DonkeyKilla

    DonkeyKilla Well-Known Member

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    the reason it is (IMO) is that you will get a good base from Las Vegas and surrounding towns, then you will get people coming to 1-2 games a year (and more for some) from CA, then you'll get people coming from the rest of the country, then you'll get the other team's fans because Las Vegas is such a destination city. I think because of the multiple pools it will work. The Casinos will buy up the luxury suites and use them on high rollers so that money will come in which isn't there from Oakland at the moment. I could see people from LA chartering party buses for Raider games-- leave at 7am and they'd have time to get there for 1:00 games no problem.
     
  6. Madturk

    Madturk Football Guru

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    That's my main concern is that you lose some of the HF advantage with so many out of town vistors potentially coming in to see their own team play and making a long weekend out of it. Kind of a football/gambling junket if you will. Guessing a lot of tour operators will offer affordable package deals.

    The good thing is that Clark County has a population of 2.147mm people so you should be able to draw a decent core fan base from that pool especially if the team is successful. There's probably already a fair share of Raider fans there and aside from UNLV and minor league baseball, its basically the only game in town.
     
  7. DonkeyKilla

    DonkeyKilla Well-Known Member

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    yeah there will always be more fans coming in for other teams... but hopefully not taking the stadium over like we did in Tampa bro!
     
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  8. gst8

    gst8 Well-Known Member

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    Again, people complained about fan support in LA and Oakland for years. Unless you live in some decrepit god forsaken place like Green Bay or Cleveland, people just aren't going to pay to watch losers. As long as the Raiders field a competitive product they'll be fine in Vegas.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017 at 1:44 PM
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  9. RF34

    RF34 Habitual Line Stepper

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    I lived in North Carolina in the early 90's. Most of the people I knew there were Redskin fans (closest team was the explanation). When they got the Panthers everybody jumped on the bandwagon. No reason to think that wouldn't happen in Vegas. Not saying they all will, but I wouldn't discount it either.
     
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  10. RF34

    RF34 Habitual Line Stepper

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    Yes, the Raiders may go to Las Vegas without Sheldon Adelson
    Posted by Mike Florio on January 11, 2017, 4:41 PM EST
    [​IMG]

    As PFT and NBC reported weeks ago, the potential relocation of the Raiders to Las Vegas may ultimately occur without the involvement of Sands casino owner Sheldon Adelson.

    At Wednesday’s joint meeting of the NFL’s finance and stadium committees, Steelers owner Art Rooney II confirmed on Wednesday that Adelson could be out of the mix.

    “The Raiders are looking at the potential of doing [it] without Mr. Adelson if it comes down to that,” Rooney said, via Daniel Kaplan of SportsBusiness Journal.

    On both December 20 and December 12, PFT explained that Adelson has been driving a very hard bargain. There also has been an expectation that Adelson eventually will attempt to purchase a piece of the Raiders and/or seek a path to control of it. Raiders owner Mark Davis, who is intent on moving to Las Vegas, would fine a replacement for Adelson, if he refuses to relent on various terms of a lease agreement for the Raiders at the new venue.

    It may ultimately be multiple persons who replace Adelson with a significant private contribution toward the $2 billion venue. Nevada has passed legislation that will contribute $750 million in public money to the structure.

    With no viable stadium proposal in Oakland, a move to Las Vegas is becoming more and more likely. The public acknowledge of the potential replacement of Adelson becomes the next tangible piece of proof that the wheels are in motion for the eventual rolling of the moving trucks to the south and the east.
     
  11. gst8

    gst8 Well-Known Member

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    Damn Florio... proof read much?

    More typos than a BR.Net post.
     
  12. RF34

    RF34 Habitual Line Stepper

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    @Sleet hardest hit...
     
  13. RF34

    RF34 Habitual Line Stepper

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    Mark Davis continues to pitch Raiders’ move to Las Vegas
    By Vic Tafur

    January 11, 2017 Updated: January 11, 2017 5:37pm

    Raiders owner Mark Davis continued to pave the road to Las Vegas on Wednesday, going before the league’s stadium and finance committees in New York City with updates on his plans to relocate the team from Oakland.

    Davis did not file for relocation; he has until Feb. 15 to do so. The San Diego Chargers, meanwhile, were granted an extension and have until Tuesday to decide whether to file for relocation to Los Angeles.

    Wednesday’s 3½-hour meeting centered around the Raiders, and owners seem to be warming to the idea of Las Vegas.

    NFL executive vice president Eric Grubman told reporters that the progress Davis has made is “impressive.”

    The league’s initial concerns were the size of the Las Vegas market compared with the Bay Area and the role of casino mogul Sheldon Adelson in the deal.

    Though Steelers owner Art Rooney II told reporters that there was no discussion of Adelson during Wednesday’s meeting, Adelson’s name apparently has come up previously. Rooney cited rules and policies that would prohibit a casino owner from owning a franchise.

    “It would have to be in compliance with our rules,” Rooney told reporters. “The Raiders are looking at the potential of doing (it) without Mr. Adelson if it comes down to that.”

    Davis, who refused comment, has been meeting with Adelson for months about various terms of a lease agreement for the Raiders at a new Las Vegas venue. There has been speculation that Adelson will attempt to purchase a piece of the Raiders.

    Adelson played a key role in getting Nevada lawmakers to pass legislation that will contribute $750 million in public money to the $1.9 billion project. He also pledged $650 million to the 65,000-seat stadium; the Raiders and NFL are on the hook for $500 million.

    The city of Oakland, meanwhile, is being described by owners as a “nonfactor at this point,” according to a source with knowledge of the discussions.

    Officials in Oakland reached a land deal in November with a group backed by Fortress Investment and led by former 49ers and Raiders defensive back Ronnie Lott. But Davis — who has said it’s too little, too late — has shown no interest in the Lott deal.

    “We continue to be in touch with the Oakland authorities whenever they want to talk,” Grubman told reporters. “There’s been no change.”

    Still, Coliseum officials remain hopeful.

    “I have always taken Mark at his word that his first choice was to remain in Oakland,” said Scott McKibben, head of the Oakland Alameda County Coliseum Authority. “The Lott group and the Fortress group along with the city and county have put together a plan that is a very viable option.

    “In terms of what’s best for the Raiders and what’s best for the league long term, we think what we’ve put together is far superior to the (stadium) plan in Las Vegas.” o_O

    Asked what city and Alameda County officials think of Davis’ New York City sales pitch, Oakland City Council President Larry Reid said the city “can’t control” the Raiders’ owner.

    “It’s just a presentation that he’s giving,” Reid said. “He has not submitted his relocation plan yet. ... I haven’t talked to Mark Davis in five or six months. Ronnie has been having conversations with the Raiders.”

    City and county officials believe they have met Davis’ demands for the Coliseum land and to fill in the $400 million financing gap for a stadium.

    NFL owners could vote on a Raiders move to Las Vegas as soon as March, at the annual league meeting in Phoenix. It would have to be ratified by 24 of the 32 owners.

    There really is no rush because Davis has said he would keep the team in Oakland while a stadium is being built in Las Vegas. And that plays into the league’s hands of trying to buy more time to keep the Chargers in San Diego.

    The Chargers may opt to become a tenant in the stadium being built in Inglewood for the Rams. But if they don’t, the Raiders have the option of joining the Rams in the new stadium. For now, however, all of Davis’ eggs are in the Las Vegas basket, which means the Chargers don’t necessarily have to slam the door on San Diego next week.

    The owners did talk about possible relocation fees, though Rooney said no specific numbers were discussed.
     
  14. RF34

    RF34 Habitual Line Stepper

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    Not a Ratto fan by any means....but this makes a whole lot of sense....

    LAS VEGAS MIGHT BE NFL HAVEN LA WAS NOT
    By Ray Ratto January 11, 2017 2:21 PM

    Now that NFL owners’ meetings – even owners’ committee meetings, like the one held Wednesday in New York – are a matter of national interest, we can get a slightly better understanding of how the pigs are slaughtered and how to read the blood splatters.

    And if that’s a little too CSI: Barnyard for you, well, get over it. Blood is the color of the day.

    Mark Davis put another selling job on the finance and stadium committees pushing the idea of the Las Vegas Raiders, and all reports say that the owners are warming to a concept many once believed was heat-resistant – abandoning one-half of the Bay Area market for the entirety of the Southern Nevada market.

    On the other hand, San Diego Chargers owner Dean Spanos didn’t even bother, preferring to stay away as far as geographically possible (non-Alaska/Hawaii Division), and the NFL’s relocation traffic cop Eric Grubman said the Chargers and their location situation (hat tip: Tim Roye) weren’t even discussed.

    So on its face, nothing much happened, there wasn’t any voting, straw polling or on-the-record anything, and the status remains stubbornly quo, right?

    Wrong, of course. The NFL is all about misdirection, and in this case the Chargers were discussed a lot. It was just not in the confines of an actual meeting. That battle is being played in hallways and executive restrooms and restaurants and bars and limousines and on mobiles, because there is very real urgency and an actual deadline about which to fret.

    Spanos had until Sunday to decide if he was going to pick up his Los Angeles option, although that deadline was pushed to Tuesday (a) because of the Martin Luther King holiday but way more (b) to give his fellow owners two extra days for armtwists and fingerwags, sweet talk and veiled threats, and as a last resort, out-and-out bribes.

    How this affects the Raiders is something we’ll get to in about four paragraphs, so sit tight.

    Spanos is leaning heavily toward picking up his option and taking his team to L.A. to co-habit with one of his least favorite people, Rams owner Stan Kroenke. A growing number of owners who desperately wanted this very result a year ago are now in a blue-gold panic after seeing how soft the Los Angeles market truly is with one team, and are trying to convince Spanos to give San Diego one final no-kidding-this-is-it window to give Spanos what he wants, stadium-wise.

    Spanos, for his part, knows how the owners screwed him (and Davis) a year ago from going to L.A. and is finally in a position to wreak his revenge on them all – either by going anyway, which he can do without asking for permission, or driving up the cost to the league of staying in a town that doesn’t like him.

    And you don’t need meetings for that sort of chat. You don’t need a recording secretary or minutes for that kind of back-alley shoe-squeezing.

    So now, the Raiders, because you’ve waited so patiently.

    They still hold the second option on L.A. if Spanos turns his down. Davis has made it clear he wants Las Vegas, and his presentation today allegedly was met with slightly more amenable ears. Both Robert Kraft (New England) and Stephen Jones (son of Jerry, Dallas) said kind things about the move, and Grubman described Davis’ latest contribution as “significant progress.”

    All this despite the fact that owners (a) still prefer the Oakland market, (b) don’t like Vegas kingpin Sheldon Adelson being involved, and (c) still don’t dig that Davis and his thin resources is one of them.

    So why the newfound nice-playing? The time for leaking that has not yet come, but we know this much:
    1. They hate the Oakland stadium proposal because they aren’t at all keen on what has come to be known as The Lott Group, which is actually Fortress Investments. They say the problem is “a third-party developer” but it is in fact “a third-party developer not directly chosen by or beholden to the league.”
    2. They have more control over Davis by dangling their votes before him in a quid pro quo arrangement than if they told him no on Vegas.
    3. And most intriguingly, by turning him down on Las Vegas they could end up with their least appealing scenario of all – the Raiders back in Los Angeles.
    You see, the league has bollixed the California situations from the start and is paying for the impetuousness, love of spur-of-the-moment deal-making and kicking the can down the road whenever possible.

    By not approving the Carson deal that would have twinned the Chargers and Raiders, they punted one can in support of another (the Rams), only to find out that the Rams do not hold near the local sway that officials or media thought they did. Now their belief that Los Angeles can handle two teams has transmogrified into a fear that it may not even bother with one. Worse, they fear that the team best positioned to be that team is the Raiders -- the team they least wanted there.

    But after deciding on the Rams, they threw relocation lifelines to both Spanos and Davis that they are now fearful one will take. And if Spanos doesn’t exercise his option (unlikely, though not out of the question), Davis could exercise his.

    And with that as backdrop, suddenly Las Vegas looks a whole lot better.

    Some credit goes to Oakland’s decision to outsource the stadium to Fortress, and some goes to the Rams being a drab and awful 4-12 team in a town owned by the Lakers and USC football, but the owners get to take center stage here. By playing Spanos and Davis in 2016, they now get to be played by them both in 2017. What goes around comes around, and like Mark Cuban said a year ago, hogs get slaughtered.

    In this case, in the most appropriate place of all – the abattoir of an owners’ committee meeting. Karma, thou art a diabolically clever and sanguinary bitch.
     
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  15. 1-800-Raider

    1-800-Raider Well-Known Member

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    This one sentence pretty much sums up the 44 paragraphs of whatever that was that Ratto was chattering about.

    For some owners... the Raiders back in LA may be least appealing (though I'm hearing the number of owners that think this way has shrunk dramatically)... but for some other owners, there is a realization that the only brand that might be able to succeed in LA is the Raiders. What Ratto missed in his 44-paragraph ramble is that Las Vegas is the ultimate compromise. It keeps the Raiders from moving to LA and ass-banging Kroenke in his own stadium... but moving to Vegas gets the Raiders close enough to LA to re-energize the dormant LA fan base...

    What Ratto didn't even come close to nailing is the problem that Spanos is facing with the Raiders moving to Vegas (and why Spanos probably didn't even bother attending this meeting). With the Raiders in Vegas, Spanos would now occupy the 3rd position in LA with no real option to come back to San Diego as nobody in San Diego is even willing to negotiate with him anymore. My best guess is Spanos is positioning a move to LA with the intention of selling the Chargers at a higher valuation....
     
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  16. CrossBones

    CrossBones The Black Pearl

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  17. s.dot88

    s.dot88 Well-Known Member

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    ESPN reporting that Chargers are announcing their move to LA.

    So much for all of the reports the last few days about keeping them in SD.
     
  18. JohnQ

    JohnQ Media hater

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    If they feel that Vegas is a better option even though most want them to stay it's fine.But is setting up shop in Vegas possible without involving Sheldon or some other possibly unsightly charactet? I suspect not.
     
  19. CrossBones

    CrossBones The Black Pearl

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    So Davis thinks he's gonna find another Sugar Daddy to kick in the $650 million which was coming form Adelson?

    Maybe the NFL want to kick in the money?
     
  20. RF34

    RF34 Habitual Line Stepper

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    This might be what he's banking on