Pre-Preseason Positional Breakdowns

Discussion in 'Raiders Discussion' started by Langlier, May 18, 2020.

  1. Langlier

    Langlier Settle Down... RIP Willie

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    Might try and bang out one of these a day. Might have a few "parts" to our deeper positions. Simply - it's a more in depth discussion of players on our roster. I'll likely focus on "new" players to our team over guys that have been here.

    To start? QB. This is not the shit on Derek Carr thread. So I'll start with the bottom of the chart.

    Nathan Peterman. Gruden thinks himself a QB guru. He likes to try to rehab guys who were middling or failing but had plus traits. Brad Johnson, Gannon, Griese. Jon hasn't found an NFL QB with problems he didn't think he could fix. Peterman may be the most "problematic" QB Jon has taken on. If rumors are true he's an excellent practice QB. Part of the reason he gets so many chances. He does have a quick release, and "sees" the field well. But his lack of arm talent and "it factor" are huge detriments. It factor in this case being mental stability when mistakes happen. Mistakes compound for him and get out of hand quickly. Nothing wrong with a guy like that as your 3rd QB. But lets hope he never sees game action. But from here we go to our highest drafted QB on the roster.

    Marcus Mariota. Carr haters unite behind your savior this year. Or not. I think Marcus was the best QB in his draft class. He has the mobility and physical skills to be an excellent NFL QB. Quick release. Accurate. Strong armed. Dangerous as a runner. Smart. Good work ethic. "Coachable". So why is he a backup QB? Simply - Tenn tried to build a system around him that didn't play well to his strengths. He had a great RB and a couple solid tackles. But his weapons were an old Delanie Walker and a rotating cast of blah WRs. They finally got Brown this last year but Mariota was replaced by Tannehill before he took off. Corey Davis was highly drafted - but all speed and no ability. Vrabel coached that team to be a defensive grinder... and tried to cast Mariota as a game manager. Mularkey had similar plans. Mariota never played "extremely poorly". But the development from occasional big plays to consistently good play never happened. A lot of that had to do with the lack of receiving options around him. Tajae Sharpe and Rishard Matthews were his best actual WRs for his entire career at Tenn, and they would be 4th/5th guys on most any other team. Criminal what they tried to saddle him with. Walker bailed him out early but you saw the decline in his game. He'll walk into his first practice with Edwards, Agholor, Zay Jones, and Moreau/Witten as his targets... and it will be a better group than any he had to throw with at Tenn. I'm glad we aren't putting all our chicks in his basket... but he's a push to our starter...

    Derek Carr. Like our previously mentioned QB - he had a monster 2016 and has been average to good to occasionally really good since. But constancy and the team around him have been in flux. I'd love to say that Carr is coming into this year as an unquestioned top NFL QB. He's not. But thats not to say he's scraping the Dalton line either. Raider fans have been burned so many times since Rich Gannon. We see glimmers of hope in a guy like Jason Campbell, or the potential of Jamarcus Russell, or the pedigree of Carson Palmer. But it's Carr who has given us any real solid play for any period of time. This despite a complete overhaul of most every player around him. Year 3 of gruden. Countless years of starters being different around Carr at WR. Raiders Starting WRs under Carr. Zay Jones, Tyrell Williams, Ryan Grant, JJ Nelson, Keelan Doss, Trevor Davis, Hunter Renfrow. Oh wait that was just last year and not including Antonio Brown. Seth Roberts, Martavis Bryant, Amari Cooper, Jordy Nelson's Ghost, Cordarrelle Patterson, Michael Crabtree, Andre Holmes, James Jones. His best years were when we had Crab and Cooper and they both stayed healthy. He has his issues. They don't look to be going away. But we have built around them. If we can get the gunslinger mindset from his rookie year back a bit and keep the weapons around him productive... We won't have any more excuses and either we will compete into the playoffs or find his replacement. No more excuses. DC is our guy and we need to rally around him.


    QBs - Right here
    Tight Ends - Page 2
    Running Backs - Page 10
    Wide Reciever - Flankers - Page 12
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2020
  2. Dummy McIdiot

    Dummy McIdiot Nincompoop

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  3. PDX Raider

    PDX Raider Well-Known Member

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    I'm convinced Mariota could take the starting position. I also think Carr doesn't have a whole season to prove he's the guy. I agree with the idea of not taking a QB in the draft, not because Carr isn't replaceable- he clearly is, but every QB in this year's draft had serious question marks outside the top guy. But Mariota might be better for Gruden's system than Carr- he's mobile and can throw the ball.

    I think Carr will be under real scrutiny the first few games of next year, and if he's not elite or team isn't winning, Carr gets yanked and the rest of season is about Mariota v. potential rookie following year. Like most, I'm sick of the back and forth re: Carr. He needs to win, show he's not a glorified game manager who makes boneheaded plays and can elevate his game. I'm pretty sure his teammates, his GM, HC and fans mostly agree with this sentiment.
     
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  4. CrossBones

    CrossBones The Black Pearl

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    We said this before about a short leash but it never materialized.

    Maybe Mariota is the guy who tightens the noose.
     
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  5. 007

    007 Commitment To Excrement

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    Every Qb in every draft every year has question marks.

    Carr is the perfect conservative match for our conservative coach.
     
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  6. Madturk

    Madturk Barry McCockinner

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    Oh without a doubt. You don't pay a guy $8mm and not expect to use him at some point. Plus it gives the team leverage if Carr looks to renegotiate his deal after this season.
     
  7. gst8

    gst8 Well-Known Member

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    Might as well just lock this thread now.

    There’s nothing to discuss here at this point.
     
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  8. eleven

    eleven Well-Known Member

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    I like the Mariota pick up. If DC4 re-emerges, he's a damn good back up to have, and if Derek falters he's a good bridge to Rodgers or whoever.
     
  9. eleven

    eleven Well-Known Member

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    We should probably just skip to that right away. We know this part isn't going anywhere good.
     
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  10. Nobodyinparticular

    Nobodyinparticular Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Who was going to push Carr for the starting spot? Nathan "5 Picks" Peterman? Or Deshone "0-16" Kizer?

    Did this team ever have a playoff winning QB to push Carr?
     
  11. alteredst8

    alteredst8 Could of got it

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    Seems like this thread is a shit show waiting to happen
     
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  12. godeep811

    godeep811 University of Mars

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    Lock the thread unless we want to talk about other positional breakdowns other than QB. Nothing new to discuss about Carr until Training Camp opens in November (teasing on the training camp date, but not about locking the thread) :coffee:
     
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  13. Crow

    Crow You wouldn't get it.

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    The entire QB depth chart is an abortion. Next.
     
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  14. Sleet

    Sleet #2018: Return of Gru

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    :eek:
     
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  15. Armyr8rfan

    Armyr8rfan Well-Known Member

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    Eh...

    I think Mariota might wind up being that guy.

    I have had a feeling he’d wind up with Gruden going on about two years now. I don’t think Car was the reason we didn’t draft a QB as much as I think a chance to develop Mariota was that reason.

    Calling my shot on this one. I think Mariota eventually gets on the field and turns into the second coming of Gannon.

    I’ve never been a huge fan, or anything like that. I just see the similarities with RG and MM. And I think Gruden can get him going.
     
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  16. Solve4X

    Solve4X Banana Nana Fo #FuckYouGruden

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    Start Peterman game 1 and let the chips fall where they may.
     
  17. cruedi

    cruedi Well-Known Member

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    I think our big battles will be DL. I don't see any competition and LB. There are a lot of DBs, but Mullen and Arnette are going to get long ropes to be starters, so maybe slot CB will have comp. Our OL starters are there and it would take some miracle with no camp /OTA to unseat anyone there.

    the recievers have their roles, and most are quite different.
    I think if we had a real camp Bowden unseats Richard who wouldn't even make the team in a normal year. (I don't care he was extended, we have better younger players now).
     
  18. Sleet

    Sleet #2018: Return of Gru

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    Agreed. A lot of bodies were added this offseason (13 FA, 7 drafted rookies, 8 UDFA plus future signings). But the pecking order appears pretty set at most every position. And while DL and WR will have the most competition for playing time, they are the position groups that rotate the most too.
     
  19. Winston Smith

    Winston Smith Living in 1984

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    Gannon had a lot of grit. I don't see that in Mariota either. Maybe Gruden can instill it and bring it out but I don't see it as a quality that he already has. On the other hand, Peterman is has that factor but hasn't grasped the game well enough. If Carr doesn't perform, I do think someone else will get a chance. Hopefully one of three can play.
     
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  20. Madturk

    Madturk Barry McCockinner

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    Disagree. Mariota is a pretty gritty QB. He's not going to get in your face, but I would never question his toughness or his ability to make plays in crunch time. His problem has been his inconsistency throughout his career. Changing offensive philosophies in Tenn. didn't help him either.

    He's starting here with a clean slate and with no pressure on him coming in as a back up. He's only 26 so he has time to resurrect his career.

    Its really a win win for us. Carr has to come out of the gate firing on all cylinders. If not, we finally have a capable back up guy that's going to be breathing down his neck.
     
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