Did Jon Gruden really win with Tony Dungy’s team?

RaiderGM75

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http://raidergm75.blogspot.com/2018/01/did-jon-gruden-really-win-with-tony.html



The entire Raider Nation is excited and energized about the return of Jon Gruden to Oakland. The thought of Derek Carr being coached by Gruden has provided Super Bowl aspirations and rightfully so. Gruden has proven to be one of the better coaches in the league and a great offensive mind. Despite his accomplishments Gruden is not without his detractors. There are some that try to discredit him because he won a superbowl with The Tampa Bay Buccaneers, a team that was coached by Tony Dungy prior to him. Some say it was Tony Dungy’s team. But wast it? Let's examine the facts and see how much influence and impact Gruden really had on that Buccaneer team.

When Gruden was traded to the Buccaneers he wisely kept Tony Dungy’s Tampa 2 defense with defensive coordinator Money Kiffen in place. Gruden focused on the offensive side of the ball and implemented his west coast system. He also instilled some nastiness or “jerk” as Gannon calls it in Brad Johnson. Warren Sapp was even surprised to see the team adopt Jon Gruden's personality. He was quoted as saying “ Brad Johnson is cursing now?”. Yes Gruden instilled a different swagger, confidence and fire in the entire team, not just the offense. Dungy was more laid back. That style was perfect for a young Buccaneer team, but for a team ready to compete, and win a superbowl, that laid back style no longer worked. A new voice was needed and Gruden provided that.

Under Gruden's leadership the Buccaneers finally beat the Eagles in the 2002 NFC championship game by a score of 27-10. A team they lost to in the playoffs two consecutive years. The Bucs scored more offensive points in that one playoff game under Gruden 27, than they did in three playoff games combined under Dungy which they only scored only 24 points. That was not Tony Dungy’s offense, it was Gruden’s offense that won that game. He went on to beat his former team (now current team again) the Raiders in the superbowl. This was accomplished in Gruden’s very first year as head coach of the Buccaneers. This was not an easy accomplishment. How do we know? Well lets see how some other coaches performed in their first year with new teams.

Let's start with the man that Gruden replaced, Tony Dungy. He was hired as head coach of the Buccaneers in 1996. He definitely put his stamp on that team, and transformed them into one of the better teams in the league. Not an easy task for one of the historically worst teams in league history. He helped turned players like Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks and soon to be John Lynch into hall of famers. Dungy and that Buccaneers team would never have had the success they had without those three core players.

While they did excelled in Dungy scheme, it is sometimes forgotten that Tony Dungy did not draft any of them. Sapp, Brooks and Lynch were already in Tampa before Dungy arrived. Just like they were there before Gruden arrived. They were all drafted under Sam Wyche. So for those who say Gruden won with Dungy players, well actually those three core players were Sam Wyche’s players.

Dungy did implement the Tampa 2 defense for them to excel in. They were no longer the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They became the Buccaneers under Dungy. Fully committed to short passes, a good running game behind Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott, and a fast stifling defense. This was known as Buc ball.

They went to to playoffs four times under Dungy including three years in a row from 1999-2001. They lost the 1999 NFC championship in to the Rams by a score of 11-6. They lost the 2000 wild card game to the Philadelphia Eagles 21-3. They lost wild card game the very next year to the same Philadelphia Eagles by a score of 31-9. Under Dungy the Bucs scored a total of 24 offensive points in those three playoff games. For all of the Buccaneers success on defense, He could never get the offense to perform well enough to beat the Eagles. The offense was definitely the Buccaneers achilles heel. As a result of his disappointing exists from the playoffs, Dungy was fired after the 2001 season.

Dungy then became the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts in 2002. He had the opposite delima as Gruden.The Colts had a great offense led by Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James and Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. The defense was the problem for that Colts team.That’s why Dungy was hired. Defense is his expertise. Just like Jon Gruden kept Monte Kiffin and the defense in place in Tampa Bay and focused on fixing the offense. Dungy kept Tom Moore in place as Colts offensive coordinator and and focused on fixing the defense.

Unlike Gruden who implemented his system and won the superbowl in his very first year. Tony Dungy implemented his defensive system. However he lost in the playoffs four consecutive years with the Colts. In year five, Dungy finally beat their nemesis, the New England Patriots. The Colts went on to win the superbowl beating the Chicago Bears led by Rex Grossman 29-17. Dungy is given credit for accomplishing what Jim Mora could not, and rightfully so. That defense played lights out from the midway point that year. It was led by Dwight Freeney and Bob Sanders. It took him five years to win the superbowl illustrating how hard it is for a new coach to win with a new team.

Lets look at another example Mike Tomlin. He became the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2007. He took over for Bill Cowher who won a superbowl just three years prior to Tomlin arriving. Cowher was a defensive coach. He implemented his 34 system in Pittsburgh. Mike Tomlin is also a defensive coach. However he ran a 43 system in Minnesota as their defensive coordinator. When he got hired in Pittsburgh, no wholesale changes were needed. In fact he had even less to change than Dungy and Gruden. He left Cowhers defense in place led by Dick LeBeau. Bruce Arians was hired as offensive coordinator. Tomlin won the superbowl not in his first year, but three years later. No one says Mike Tomlin won with Cowher’s team. Tomlin is praised and given credit for coaching the team and winning the superbowl.

The last example is the Denver Broncos. They were already one of the best teams in the league under John Fox. They played in super bowl XLVIII, and were coming off a 13-3 season. Recognizing Denver would not win a superbowl under John Fox, John Elway fired him and hired Gary Kubiak. Like Gruden he did win the superbowl in his very first year as head coach of the Broncos. However Kubiak still had more to work with than Jon Gruden. Although a shell of himself he still had an all time great quarterback in Peyton Manning. Manning won plenty of playoff games and was a super bowl winning quarterback. Kubiak did not have to teach Manning how to win, unlike what Gruden had to do with Brad Johnson. Manning’s physical skills had eroded but his mind was still sharp. Kubiak and the Broncos went on to win Super bowl 50, but here is the point. Kubiak is given full credit for winning a superbowl in his first year and rightfully so. No one ever says Kubiak won with John Fox’s team. In fact John Fox is looked at as a coach who could not get the broncos over the hump, and Kubiak was able to.

The fact that it only took Jon Gruden one year to get done what Dungy couldn't accomplish in four attempts with the Buccaneers, the assumption appears to be, since Gruden got immediate results, Dungy could have done the same thing if he wasn't fired. But unless Dungy was going to instill Gruden’s offense,passion and fire I don’t see how that would have ever been possible. Gruden made that putrid Tampa Bay offense perform at a high level. He made it look easy although it was not. Gruden shouldn't get discredited for that, in fact he should be given more credit considering how hard it is for any coach to win the superbowl with a new team in their very first year.

So to those who continue to say (Stephen A.Smith) that Gruden won the superbowl with Dungy’s team, then we have to say Tony Dungy won with Jim Mora’s team. Mike Tomlin won with Bill Cowher’s team. Gary Kubiak won with John Fox’s team. What is the difference between those coaches and Gruden? Gruden did it in less time and made it look easier than it was.

When you are good and work hard and accomplish things that others cannot you will have haters and doubters. Gruden has both. It's time for Gruden to silence his doubters and put his stamp on the Oakland Raiders once again. Now let's get the same first year results in Oakland that he had in Tampa!

Coach you owe us one!
 
The people who say that seem to think winning a SB is easy. Like you posted, Dungy had that defense for years and didnt win shit. So how would the same person explain that. Gruden is a good solid NFL coach. The question is whether he is one of the greats or just another good coach.
 
Bucks never won in the cold. Gruden came in and they went to Philly and beat that ass. I hate the Eagles for losing that game because we would have won the SB had they gone. But I digress. Gruden instilled a winning mentality that took them to a place Dungy and his placid personality couldn't.

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The people who say that seem to think winning a SB is easy. Like you posted, Dungy had that defense for years and didnt win shit. So how would the same person explain that. Gruden is a good solid NFL coach. The question is whether he is one of the greats or just another good coach.
The people who say that seem to think winning a SB is easy. Like you posted, Dungy had that defense for years and didnt win shit. So how would the same person explain that. Gruden is a good solid NFL coach. The question is whether he is one of the greats or just another good coach.

I agree. I think Gruden wants to go down as great. Hopefully he can prove that here in Oakland
 
View attachment 7091






http://raidergm75.blogspot.com/2018/01/did-jon-gruden-really-win-with-tony.html



The entire Raider Nation is excited and energized about the return of Jon Gruden to Oakland. The thought of Derek Carr being coached by Gruden has provided Super Bowl aspirations and rightfully so. Gruden has proven to be one of the better coaches in the league and a great offensive mind. Despite his accomplishments Gruden is not without his detractors. There are some that try to discredit him because he won a superbowl with The Tampa Bay Buccaneers, a team that was coached by Tony Dungy prior to him. Some say it was Tony Dungy’s team. But wast it? Let's examine the facts and see how much influence and impact Gruden really had on that Buccaneer team.

When Gruden was traded to the Buccaneers he wisely kept Tony Dungy’s Tampa 2 defense with defensive coordinator Money Kiffen in place. Gruden focused on the offensive side of the ball and implemented his west coast system. He also instilled some nastiness or “jerk” as Gannon calls it in Brad Johnson. Warren Sapp was even surprised to see the team adopt Jon Gruden's personality. He was quoted as saying “ Brad Johnson is cursing now?”. Yes Gruden instilled a different swagger, confidence and fire in the entire team, not just the offense. Dungy was more laid back. That style was perfect for a young Buccaneer team, but for a team ready to compete, and win a superbowl, that laid back style no longer worked. A new voice was needed and Gruden provided that.

Under Gruden's leadership the Buccaneers finally beat the Eagles in the 2002 NFC championship game by a score of 27-10. A team they lost to in the playoffs two consecutive years. The Bucs scored more offensive points in that one playoff game under Gruden 27, than they did in three playoff games combined under Dungy which they only scored only 24 points. That was not Tony Dungy’s offense, it was Gruden’s offense that won that game. He went on to beat his former team (now current team again) the Raiders in the superbowl. This was accomplished in Gruden’s very first year as head coach of the Buccaneers. This was not an easy accomplishment. How do we know? Well lets see how some other coaches performed in their first year with new teams.

Let's start with the man that Gruden replaced, Tony Dungy. He was hired as head coach of the Buccaneers in 1996. He definitely put his stamp on that team, and transformed them into one of the better teams in the league. Not an easy task for one of the historically worst teams in league history. He helped turned players like Warren Sapp, Derrick Brooks and soon to be John Lynch into hall of famers. Dungy and that Buccaneers team would never have had the success they had without those three core players.

While they did excelled in Dungy scheme, it is sometimes forgotten that Tony Dungy did not draft any of them. Sapp, Brooks and Lynch were already in Tampa before Dungy arrived. Just like they were there before Gruden arrived. They were all drafted under Sam Wyche. So for those who say Gruden won with Dungy players, well actually those three core players were Sam Wyche’s players.

Dungy did implement the Tampa 2 defense for them to excel in. They were no longer the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. They became the Buccaneers under Dungy. Fully committed to short passes, a good running game behind Warrick Dunn and Mike Alstott, and a fast stifling defense. This was known as Buc ball.

They went to to playoffs four times under Dungy including three years in a row from 1999-2001. They lost the 1999 NFC championship in to the Rams by a score of 11-6. They lost the 2000 wild card game to the Philadelphia Eagles 21-3. They lost wild card game the very next year to the same Philadelphia Eagles by a score of 31-9. Under Dungy the Bucs scored a total of 24 offensive points in those three playoff games. For all of the Buccaneers success on defense, He could never get the offense to perform well enough to beat the Eagles. The offense was definitely the Buccaneers achilles heel. As a result of his disappointing exists from the playoffs, Dungy was fired after the 2001 season.

Dungy then became the head coach of the Indianapolis Colts in 2002. He had the opposite delima as Gruden.The Colts had a great offense led by Peyton Manning, Edgerrin James and Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne. The defense was the problem for that Colts team.That’s why Dungy was hired. Defense is his expertise. Just like Jon Gruden kept Monte Kiffin and the defense in place in Tampa Bay and focused on fixing the offense. Dungy kept Tom Moore in place as Colts offensive coordinator and and focused on fixing the defense.

Unlike Gruden who implemented his system and won the superbowl in his very first year. Tony Dungy implemented his defensive system. However he lost in the playoffs four consecutive years with the Colts. In year five, Dungy finally beat their nemesis, the New England Patriots. The Colts went on to win the superbowl beating the Chicago Bears led by Rex Grossman 29-17. Dungy is given credit for accomplishing what Jim Mora could not, and rightfully so. That defense played lights out from the midway point that year. It was led by Dwight Freeney and Bob Sanders. It took him five years to win the superbowl illustrating how hard it is for a new coach to win with a new team.

Lets look at another example Mike Tomlin. He became the head coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers in 2007. He took over for Bill Cowher who won a superbowl just three years prior to Tomlin arriving. Cowher was a defensive coach. He implemented his 34 system in Pittsburgh. Mike Tomlin is also a defensive coach. However he ran a 43 system in Minnesota as their defensive coordinator. When he got hired in Pittsburgh, no wholesale changes were needed. In fact he had even less to change than Dungy and Gruden. He left Cowhers defense in place led by Dick LeBeau. Bruce Arians was hired as offensive coordinator. Tomlin won the superbowl not in his first year, but three years later. No one says Mike Tomlin won with Cowher’s team. Tomlin is praised and given credit for coaching the team and winning the superbowl.

The last example is the Denver Broncos. They were already one of the best teams in the league under John Fox. They played in super bowl XLVIII, and were coming off a 13-3 season. Recognizing Denver would not win a superbowl under John Fox, John Elway fired him and hired Gary Kubiak. Like Gruden he did win the superbowl in his very first year as head coach of the Broncos. However Kubiak still had more to work with than Jon Gruden. Although a shell of himself he still had an all time great quarterback in Peyton Manning. Manning won plenty of playoff games and was a super bowl winning quarterback. Kubiak did not have to teach Manning how to win, unlike what Gruden had to do with Brad Johnson. Manning’s physical skills had eroded but his mind was still sharp. Kubiak and the Broncos went on to win Super bowl 50, but here is the point. Kubiak is given full credit for winning a superbowl in his first year and rightfully so. No one ever says Kubiak won with John Fox’s team. In fact John Fox is looked at as a coach who could not get the broncos over the hump, and Kubiak was able to.

The fact that it only took Jon Gruden one year to get done what Dungy couldn't accomplish in four attempts with the Buccaneers, the assumption appears to be, since Gruden got immediate results, Dungy could have done the same thing if he wasn't fired. But unless Dungy was going to instill Gruden’s offense,passion and fire I don’t see how that would have ever been possible. Gruden made that putrid Tampa Bay offense perform at a high level. He made it look easy although it was not. Gruden shouldn't get discredited for that, in fact he should be given more credit considering how hard it is for any coach to win the superbowl with a new team in their very first year.

So to those who continue to say (Stephen A.Smith) that Gruden won the superbowl with Dungy’s team, then we have to say Tony Dungy won with Jim Mora’s team. Mike Tomlin won with Bill Cowher’s team. Gary Kubiak won with John Fox’s team. What is the difference between those coaches and Gruden? Gruden did it in less time and made it look easier than it was.

When you are good and work hard and accomplish things that others cannot you will have haters and doubters. Gruden has both. It's time for Gruden to silence his doubters and put his stamp on the Oakland Raiders once again. Now let's get the same first year results in Oakland that he had in Tampa!

Coach you owe us one!
latest
 
It's always a bit overblown, but by the same token, Callahan did the same thing for us. Gruden always gets tagged with this because he was mediocre after they won the first year. I don't think there is a such thing as "winning with someone else's team," especially in this FA era, but Dungy did get that team turned around.

I mean the Bucs to this day have like a .300 winning percentage as a franchise, and his years are a bulk of the.300. Even the good Ron Wolf years with McKay never got to be that great because Culverhouse ran him off after a couple of years.
 
I've got a different take.Gruden won OUR Super Bowl with another team.Bullshit.Thanks Al.
 
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