BR.net Draft Redo

Discussion in 'Raiders War Room' started by Sleet, May 7, 2016.

  1. Sleet

    Sleet #2017: Get 'er done Red

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    20/20 hindsight (for posterity):

    1(14): Joseph, S (Red nailed this pick)
    2(44): Ward, DE/DT (Shepard gone; reason Bullard dropped to 3rd)
    3(75): Calhoun (too much value; loved Carroo; but Payton/Braverman available Day 3)
    4(114): Boehm, C (starting quality center to back-up Hudson)
    5(143): Washington, RB (liked Boehm/Washington more than Dixon/???)
    5(154): Brothers, ILB (Day 2 value; 2-down stud in middle)
    6(199): Braverman, WR (had to do it; needed WR)
    7(235): Alexander, OG (nuts value)
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
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  2. Postmaster

    Postmaster Well-Hung Member

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  3. Sleet

    Sleet #2017: Get 'er done Red

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    The butt hurt is strong in this post. o_O

    We know your vote anyway: Red was perfect (7/7). :koolaid:
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
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  4. godeep811

    godeep811 It's time to win again

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    Green Bay— The Green Bay Packers' decision to bypass UCLA linebacker Myles Jack underscores the oftentimes hidden dimension of medical tolerance and the importance it plays in who is drafted when.

    As much as the Packers loved Jack as a player, the condition of his right knee carried too much risk for general manager Ted Thompson at the 27th pick of the first round of the NFL draft last week.

    Loquacious Sam Seale, the team's valued west regional scout since the mid-1990s, urged Thompson to make Jack a Packer.

    "Sam told Ted, 'Take him. He is a Pro Bowl player. Take him,'" said one of Seale's many NFL friends after they had a conversation in the last 10 days.

    "But the doctors were the issue," the friend continued. "They didn't feel comfortable taking him there with the questions about the knee. That was the only reason."

    One team with a top-20 pick cleared Jack and planned to take him.

    When other players fell, that club took someone else and Jack crashed to No. 36, where Jacksonville traded a fifth-round choice to Baltimore for the right to move up two slots and select him.

    On the other hand, a top executive in personnel for a team with one of the final 11 selections in the first rounds expressed the view that was commonplace throughout the league.

    "We didn't get the OK to take him," the executive said this week. "Too big a risk. How do you waste a first-round pick? We didn't have enough picks to be throwing them around. Even if he can play, it's not going to be for long."

    Under the 2011 collective bargaining agreement, only players taken in the first round have base salaries guaranteed for the first three years. Since the draft began in 1936, no team wants egg on its face from a disastrous selection in the first round.

    A vocal segment of fans have emailed insisting Thompson should have gambled on Jack at No. 27. Now they'll use Seale's words for more attacks.

    Just remember that as an area scout Seale wasn't privy to Jack's voluminous medical file. Also, he isn't responsible for spending millions of dollars on a first-round pick just as he wouldn't be held accountable for his opinions within an organization that demands he be opinionated.

    They say it's lonely at the top, and it must have been for Thompson that night in late April.

    Thompson showed his aggressiveness the next day, trading up in the second round to draft tackle Jason Spriggs with the 48th choice. As wrenching as I'm guessing it was to let Jack go, Thompson displayed wisdom taking the never-been-injured nose tackle, Kenny Clark.

    Jack fit no greater need at inside linebacker than Clark did at nose tackle.

    Of the two, there's no doubt Jack was the superior prospect. When the Journal Sentinel polled 19 national-oriented scouts on the best player in the draft, Jack finished third.

    "People told me he (Jack) was the best player in the draft," Ron Wolf, the Packers' general manager from late 1991 to early 2001, said Friday.

    Wolf quickly added that he knew nothing about Jack as a player other than what he had picked up from others.

    However, Wolf certainly can relate to what might have been the keen disappointment felt by Thompson as he let a potential superstar slip away.

    "Yeah, but it doesn't do you any good," said Wolf. "If the guy is medically unable to play, then you have to control your emotions. You're the person that established what the criteria is.

    "If the criteria is the guy has this or has that, then one has a decision to make. If in the opinion of the doctors and trainers the guy can't play medically, what's the use beating your head against the wall?"

    Patrick McKenzie, an orthopedic surgeon and the team's physician since 1993, was primarily responsible for informing Thompson of the risks associated with Jack's right knee.

    In a late September practice, Jack suffered meniscus cartilage damage. After being

    unable to run a 40 at the combine or pro day, he told reporters in New York two days before the draft that microfracture surgery might be necessary.

    Microfracture is about the reddest of red flags when it comes to knees. There's little doubt some teams were petrified after hearing that coming from the player's lips.

    Coach Mike McCarthy, who has worked with McKenzie for 11 years, has called him conservative in his prognoses several times. Wolf demurred, citing the trade for Brett Favre in 1992.

    Clarence Novotny, a general practitioner in Green Bay, replaced Eugene Brusky as team physician in January 1991. Novotny then examined Favre at the combine a month later.

    When Wolf traded for Favre in February 1992, Novotny was in charge of Favre's physical examination before the deal could be consummated. He didn't like the look of Favre's hip.

    "When he came in here Novotny failed him," recalled Wolf. "He didn't have all the facts."

    McKenzie had been treating Packers players on a referral basis as early as 1991. Acting as a consultant on Favre, it was McKenzie who signed off on the hip, according to Wolf.

    "Obviously, I did trust him," said Wolf, who appointed McKenzie to team physician in 1993 after firing Novotny. "People (fans) don't know. That's why you have those people (doctors). They help you get out of trouble. They do a great job of that."

    During Wolf's tenure, players received a medical grade of 1, 2, 3 or 4. A 4 m

    A 4 meant do not take.

    When McKenzie and the rest of the medical/training staff would return from the combine medical recheck in Indianapolis a few weeks before the draft, everything would be cut and dried under Wolf.

    "It was who failed, who didn't fail and go from there," said Wolf, adding that any players with a 4 were off his board.

    It was the 3-graded players that led to heavy discussion.

    "You establish with the doctor your criteria," Wolf said. "Now you interview the doctor. The doctor tells you what he thinks. The doctor doesn't make the decision. You make the decision."

    Let's assume Thompson still uses Wolf's grading, and Jack was a 3.

    Wolf said he never drafted a 4. When Wolf took 3s, he said those players usually didn't work out.

    In Wolf's last full-fledged draft (2000), he remembered using two of his three fourth-round choices on wide receiver Anthony Lucas and safety Gary Berry.

    Lucas, who had three arthroscopic surgeries on his right knee at Arkansas, showed up at the post-draft minicamp and couldn't run. Eventually, he had ACL surgery before being released in August 2001 without having played a down.

    Berry's career was ended by a spinal injury in his only game. The season before at Ohio State, he had suffered a neck strain and concussion.

    "I tried a couple times to take guys to hit a home run, and they failed," said Wolf. "They both had injuries, and stayed injured. You learn lessons that way, you know?"

    My best guess, based on discussing Jack with half a dozen teams, is that his career will be short-lived, at least as an elite performer.
     
  5. DonkeyKilla

    DonkeyKilla Well-Known Member

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  6. Sleet

    Sleet #2017: Get 'er done Red

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    I deviated from what I said I would do prior to the draft: take Spriggs in the 2nd, Carroo in the 3rd and Dixon in the 4th if they were there. Still flip-flopping after the draft!
    :facepalm:
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
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  7. Sleet

    Sleet #2017: Get 'er done Red

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    The average career of a 1st round pick in 9 years according to FO. I get why teams passed on Jack and kept their 5th year option for somebody else.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/what-does-nfl-draft-really-produce-part-i
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2016
  8. Byron2112

    Byron2112 4.65...

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    I though Cinnci had an incredible draft... amazing value here... we could have had this very same draft and I'd have been happy as hell.




    Round 1
    , Pick 24 (24) William Jackson III CB 6'0" 189 Houston 5.9

    Pick Analysis: "He finds the football when it's in the air and then he becomes the wide receiver. I think the Bengals wanted a wide receiver here, but the wide receiver board is gone. So, they take Jackson, who is probably the best player on their board. The Steelers, who are picking right behind the Bengals, need a cornerback badly." -- Mike Mayock

    Round 2, Pick 24 (55) Tyler Boyd WR 6'1" 197 Pittsburgh 5.9

    Pick Analysis: "His NFL comparisons are Keenan Allen and Jimmy Smith; went new and old school. Boyd is a real technician when running routes. He also brings a return game." -- Charles Davis

    Round 3, Pick 24 (87) Nick Vigil ILB 6'2" 239 Utah St. 5.3

    Pick Analysis: "This is a good football player. He had 144 tackles this year. He's better in the pass game than people realize." -- Mike Mayock

    Round 4, Pick 24 (122) Andrew Billings NT 6'1" 311 Baylor 6.0

    Pick Analysis: Billings is a two down nose tackle which, in a passing league, isn't as valuable. His draft spot is not indicative of his talent, however, as he's got a heavy anchor with elite play strength to control the interior gaps. With Domata Peko's age and contract year coming up, we're likely looking at his replacement. --Mark Dulgerian

    Round 5, Pick 24 (161) Christian Westerman OG 6'3" 298 Arizona State 5.8

    Pick Analysis: The interior of the Bengals line showed some soft spots last season and there are some contract years approaching. Westerman was expected to go much sooner so this is a nice value in the middle of Round 5. He's a country-strong technician who can contribute in all 3 interior spots. --Mark Dulgerian

    Round 6, Pick 24 (199) Cody Core WR 6'3" 205 Mississippi 5.3

    Pick Analysis: When Laquon Treadwell was covered up, Core was the guy they targeted at Ole Miss. He has NFL size and ball skills but inconsistency is why he was picked this late. He can develop into a reliable No.4 if he puts it all together. --Mark Dulgerian

    Round 7, Pick 24 (245) Clayton Fejedelem S 6'1" 200 Illinois 5.1

    Pick Analysis: Fejedelem has obvious deficiencies in coverage but he's a tackling machine who can bring the wood. He'll need to make his mark on special teams to come out of camp a member of the Bengals 53-man roster. --Mark Dulgerian
     
  9. RaiderJF

    RaiderJF Well-Known Member

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    Agree. They've been doing this shit for the last several years getting great value for their picks... the result is arguably the deepest roster in the league. When other teams have struggled to even get two quality cbs on the field, they had 4 high quality cbs last year. Depth thoughout the roster. Unfortunately, no longer the Bungles...
     
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  10. TheMadStork

    TheMadStork WIN THE DOWN!

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    Not impressed. Let me know when they win a playoff game.
     
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  11. Madturk

    Madturk Football Guru

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    QFT
     
  12. eleven

    eleven Well-Known Member

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    Why the fuck can Cincinnati not win a playoff game in 7 (seven) tries?

    It can't be just Dalton. I don't buy that.
     
  13. RaiderNorth

    RaiderNorth Well-Known Member

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    1(14): Karl Joseph, S
    2(44): Jarran Reed, DT
    3(75): Nick Vigil, ILB
    4(114): Pharoh Cooper, WR
    5(143): DeAndre Washington, RB
    5(154): Joe Haeg, OT
    6(199): Maurice Canady, CB
    7(235): Vadal Alexander, OG
     
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  14. eleven

    eleven Well-Known Member

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    I'm seeing most peeps not on board with the Connor Cook trade.

    If Dixon is better than Washington it wasn't worth it. We'll find out pretty quick.
     
  15. Sleet

    Sleet #2017: Get 'er done Red

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    Dixon doesn't have Washington's straight-line speed but has more wiggle/better jump cut. Most expect that Dixon will be better. I think the better question is whether Washington will be a good NFL RB and better than Murray.
     
  16. godeep811

    godeep811 It's time to win again

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    I'm reading a recent Sports Ilustrated on the 2011 draft. It states "the 2011 NFL draft will do down as the most talent laden-maybe the most. Already, nine if the first 11 picks have been selected to a Pro Bowl, more than any other from the modern era draft ..."

    Makes me sick...
     
  17. eleven

    eleven Well-Known Member

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    why? We weren't going anywhere anyway.
     
  18. godeep811

    godeep811 It's time to win again

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    Raiders could have at least had a first rounder
     
  19. RaiderJF

    RaiderJF Well-Known Member

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    Red's done a good job in making up for others blunders in that draft... Looks like we now have A Smith as our first rounder and Hudson as our second rounder from that draft class.
     
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  20. BigTron

    BigTron Well-Known Member

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    #14 - K.Joseph - I wanted Rankins here. Nkemdiche was too risky.

    #44 - M.Alexander - feisty slot CB (Spriggs considered)

    #75 - Javon Hargrave - 3-tech

    #114 - Tyler Ervin - RB/KR

    #143 - Jordan Howard - RB

    #154 - Josh Forrest - ILB

    #194 - Daniel Braverman - SWR

    #234 - Vadal Alexander - RG
     
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