Fuck Jon Gruden

If Gruden goes 8-8 next season he's not going anywhere. If he goes 8-8 again in 2022 he's not going anywhere. If he goes 8-8 in 2023 he's not going anywhere. Only way he even has a chance of getting fired is if he has a 4-12 type season again and even then I'm not sure Mark would can him.
 
History primarily is behind the craving to hired a new GM and HC. No one had faith in Jon as a GM before he was hired, and the last three years have only supported that belief. His conservative nature and predictably poor play calling in the redzone has fueled the distain.

Unfortunately, history also supports that hiring a new GM and certainly a new HC has never resulted in anything positive either, just more of the same. Perhaps Mark could do better. He has a new stadium. He lives in a no income tax state (although in the middle of a desert). But, really, does anyone believe that?

I’m guessing Mayock’s out the door whether we have a bad or good season. I’d even venture that he announces his retirement and says that he’s going to stay on and help hire his replacement. I don’t see Jon going anywhere until he wants to call it a day himself. And, personally, I don’t want him to. He’s a good HC. I want him to succeed. It is what’s best for the franchise. Hope we crush the draft and this becomes a moot point.
 
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Sleet said:
I’m guessing Mark’s out the door whether we have a bad or good season. I’d even venture that he announces his retirement and says that he’s going to stay on and help hire his replacement.
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:wtf1:
 
Sleet said:
More than Mayock? Lol. Vic needs his own thread.

“I think I said this in the podcast. If Gruden’s seat ever gets warm, he just chucks it out the window and gets another one. There are a couple of scapegoats already lined up for next season if the Raiders don’t improve on 8-8,” Tafur wrote this week in The Athletic.
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Teflon Jon
 
Sleet said:
History primarily is behind the craving to hired a new GM and HC. No one had faith in Jon as a GM before he was hired, and the last three years have only supported that belief. His conservative nature and predictably poor play calling in the redzone has fueled the distain.

Unfortunately, history also supports that hiring a new GM and certainly a new HC has never resulted in anything positive either, just more of the same. Perhaps Mark could do better. He has a new stadium. He lives in a no income tax state (although in the middle of a desert). But, really, does anyone believe that?

I’m guessing Mark’s out the door whether we have a bad or good season. I’d even venture that he announces his retirement and says that he’s going to stay on and help hire his replacement. I don’t see Jon going anywhere until he wants to call it a day himself. And, personally, I don’t want him to. He’s a good HC. I want him to succeed. It is what’s best for the franchise. Hope we crush the draft and this becomes a moot point.
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In order of historically supported facts hiring a new HC/GM ranks slightly above keeping poor performing ones.
 
gst8 said:
In order of historically supported facts hiring a new HC/GM ranks slightly above keeping poor performing ones.
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We’ll have to agree to disagree about Jon as a HC, which includes his ability to recruit coaches and free agents. No disagreement about him as a GM, but I have no confidence in Mark being able to hire a better HC or GM. I think the team is better off with continuity as long as Gruden’s not mailing it in and remains passionate and obsessed with his job, but this year will add more data supporting or undermining that viewpoint.
 
Sleet said:
We’ll have to agree to disagree about Jon as a HC, which includes his ability to recruit coaches and free agents. No disagreement about him as a GM, but I have no confidence in Mark being able to hire a better HC or GM. I think the team is better off with continuity as long as Gruden’s not mailing it in and remains passionate and obsessed with his job, but this year will add more data supporting or undermining that viewpoint.
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You brought up his play calling. Keeping Guenther is a HC issue. His ability to recruit is probably a wash with his ability to alienate players. And considering there is no way to separate Jon the HC with Jon the GM I think we're at a net negative.
 
gst8 said:
You brought up his play calling. Keeping Guenther is a HC issue. His ability to recruit is probably a wash with his ability to alienate players. And considering there is no way to separate Jon the HC with Jon the GM I think we're at a net negative.
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Net negative compared to what? If you are comparing it to the list of HC since Al traded Jon, I disagree. I see many positives in Jon as a HC over those former HC. As to Jon leading the front office, including the GM and scouts, in terms of player acquisition, I see more of the same, without the big success Red/DA had in 2014. If Mark believes he can upgrade in terms of GM after and if this year further substantiates Jon’s poor performance in that regard, he should. I just question his ability to do that. Change for the sake of change is just spinning wheels, at best, but more likely detrimental to the organization. I rather have Jon’s identity and the devil I know, who out coached Reid twice last year, than recycled garbage like in the past.
 
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The way fans react, Gruden supporters would embrace and lecture us about brilliant the coaching change was. Look at the spit shine they gave fan favorite Hudson being moved and signing James to a larger contract.
 
Winston Smith said:
The way fans react, Gruden supporters would embrace and lecture us about brilliant the coaching change was. Look at the spit shine they gave fan favorite Hudson being moved and signing James to a larger contract.
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Or you can analyze the transaction and be honest about why it was done, rather than use meaningless labels.
 
Sleet said:
Net negative compared to what? If you are comparing it to the list of HC since Al traded Jon, I disagree. I see many positives in Jon as a HC over those former HC. As to Jon leading the front office, including the GM and scouts, in terms of player acquisition, I see more of the same, without the big success Red/DA had in 2014. If Mark believes he can upgrade in terms of GM after and if this year further substantiates Jon’s poor performance in that regard, he should. I just question his ability to do that. Change for the sake of change is just spinning wheels, at best, but more likely detrimental to the organization. I rather have Jon’s identity and the devil I know, who out coached Reid twice last year, than recycled garbage like in the past.
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The minute Jon is out the door you'll be bashing him and championing the next guy.
 
gst8 said:
The minute Jon is out the door you'll be bashing him and championing the next guy.
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:lmao:

Actually, no. I did not bash Jon the first time he left. I like him. I will undoubtedly acknowledge why it was done.
 
Sleet said:
We’ll have to agree to disagree about Jon as a HC, which includes his ability to recruit coaches and free agents. No disagreement about him as a GM, but I have no confidence in Mark being able to hire a better HC or GM. I think the team is better off with continuity as long as Gruden’s not mailing it in and remains passionate and obsessed with his job, but this year will add more data supporting or undermining that viewpoint.
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I see what you’re saying—-> FUCK GRUDEN.

Awful hire and because of that idiot Davis were stuck.
 
Winston Smith said:
I usually wait to see what happens on the field. That is the truth that matters.
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Lol. Not true. You’ve opined on the merit (or lack thereof) of plenty of individual transactions.

The Hudson move was not about winning this year. We had him under contract and it cost us cap space to move him. It was about accelerating a perceived inevitable move to James — reportedly after Hudson refused to restructure and requested a trade — in exchange for a 3rd and to help pay for Miller’s big extension in terms of cap space next year. Perhaps we could have said no, but we didn’t.

Some moves are about winning now. Some are about winning down the road. Others are about making lemonade. While I hope for the former, I’m guessing it was one of the later two.

Your litmus test really applies to none. It is a macro view that encompasses all offseason moves as well as coaching. Not really germane to the discussion.
 
sportzfan76 said:
Callahan & Trestman II ?
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They certainly exposed Jon’s overly conservative nature/play calling. But both inherited Jon’s team the same way Jon inherited Dungy’s team. And both got exposed, not only by Jon in the SB, but as years unfolded.
 
Sleet said:
:lmao:

Actually, no. I did not bash Jon the first time he left. I like him. I will undoubtedly acknowledge why it was done.
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We used to go round and round about Reggie and JDR and you defended them like your first born son but now, not so much.

It's not your fault though. You and I are just here to maintain balance in the force.
 
raiderfreak7 said:
If Gruden goes 8-8 next season he's not going anywhere. If he goes 8-8 again in 2022 he's not going anywhere. If he goes 8-8 in 2023 he's not going anywhere. Only way he even has a chance of getting fired is if he has a 4-12 type season again and even then I'm not sure Mark would can him.
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He is the heir to Mark's throne.
 
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