McChicken

[DarkDays]

Now that the death star has exited Oakland all eyes are on the guy who goes down in a heap when when a defender looks at him cross. Don't get me wrong, he can be explosive if our Oline gels, opens up holes and get him in space. I think this is going to be the year that Bush turns it on. Dmac has got to know that Al is tired of people not giving 100 percent.

[Raidervinny]

Now that the death star has exited Oakland all eyes are on the guy who goes down in a heap when when a defender looks at him cross. Don't get me wrong, he can be explosive if our Oline gels, opens up holes and get him in space. I think this is going to be the year that Bush turns it on. Dmac has got to know that Al is tired of people not giving 100 percent.

I think you have that backwards. DMAC is one of the hardest working guys on the team. He's not the one that takes himself out of the game every other play because he's too fat and tired. DMAC is a team guy, works hard, trains hard and plays hard. This is the year he puts up 1,600+ yards rushing and receiving.

[TheMadStork]

Now that the death star has exited Oakland all eyes are on the guy who goes down in a heap when when a defender looks at him cross. Don't get me wrong, he can be explosive if our Oline gels, opens up holes and get him in space. I think this is going to be the year that Bush turns it on. Dmac has got to know that Al is tired of people not giving 100 percent.

I don't think the problem with DMac (or DHB, for that matter) is lack of effort. DHB, especially, seems to have a very good work ethic. I just think they're not all that good. I'm hoping they can both outgrow their limitations (DMac - balance & vision; DHB- hands) and be productive Raiders, but I won't cry (or be surprised) if this year turns out to be their Raider swansongs. I don't detest these guys like I did the Quarterback-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named and I hope Cable and Jackson can find a way to get the most out of them.

[Armyr8rfan]

Hope so, he does IMO need a well above average run blocking line to be successful. Health is really the big question. If we can get the OL straightened out, and get him healthy, and then maybe use him correctly, I can see the 1500 TY easily. This should be the year with competence at QB, and hopefully an improved WR core to take pressure off the run game.

[Sleet]

The OL is the key, no doubt. If we start the equivalent of Hendo, Morriss, Satele, Carlisle, Green, it won't matter. But it won't stop people from bashing DMAC if he does not produce this year.

[Crow]

Henderson, Satele, Carlisle, and Green weren't sweeping his legs out from under him the last couple years. He was pretty much doing that on his on.

[DonkeyKilla]

I think DMAC can improve but my biggest concern with him is the fumbling. I think he runs between the tackles much better than people give him credit for. An NFL-caliber passing game would do wonders for him and the OL for rushing IMO. I believe in hard work paying off so there is a good chance DMAC comes through in this offense with a real OC, improved OL, and drastically improved QB.

[Sabers]

Now that the death star has exited Oakland all eyes are on the guy who goes down in a heap when when a defender looks at him cross. Don't get me wrong, he can be explosive if our Oline gels, opens up holes and get him in space. I think this is going to be the year that Bush turns it on. Dmac has got to know that Al is tired of people not giving 100 percent.

The implosion of the "death star" (I love that!) is also a shot across the bow of Michael Bush. Al Davis seems to have woken up and realized that he doesn't have time to screw around anymore. If I'm right about that, the days of Bush showing up out of shape and disappearing for long stretches of games will be over this year...one way or another. Darren McFadden may seemingly go down in a stiff breeze, but in fairness to him, he clearly has been miscast and misused in his first few seasons in Oakland. Nor has he gotten a lot of help from our truly "offensive" line. Let's see how Hue Jackson can use him more intelligently behind a revamped O-line.

G.

[DonkeyKilla]

what can be done about his fumbling though? some of his fumbles were real game changers- including the opener vs SD.

[hawaiianboy]

Figured the JaMarcus execution would provide happiness for at least a week before the next poor bastard was being lined up... Figured it would be Bey, but he musta been smart enough to hide behind that Kellen Heard guy or something...

[DonkeyKilla]

no one left on the team that i don't like... sure maybe some guys that could be better, but no one left to despise. I'm really happy- for first time in a long time.

[Postmaster]

McFadden, DHB are out of the shadows
By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Friday, May 7th, 2010 at 8:41 am in Oakland Raiders.

Darren McFadden and Darrius Heyward-Bey had their cover blown.

The 270- to 300-pound (depending on the week) solar eclipse that was JaMarcus Russell is gone, leaving McFadden and Heyward-Bey exposed as premium draft picks who haven’t produced anything close to premium results.

The good news is that unlike Russell, neither man has an aversion to hard work and both are dedicated to their craft.

McHey-Bey isn’t a quarterback, either, so the No. 4 and No. 7 picks in the 2008 and 2009 drafts don’t have to change plays at the line of scrimmage or be the central figure in every snap from center.

The demise of Russell in the eyes of Al Davis came when he was replaced as the starting quarterback by Bruce Gradkowski after 10 games. It was at that point Davis went from looking at Russell as “great” and with growing disdain for his indifference and hearing the rumors swirling about his love of the nightlife, told Tom Cable, “OK, you want Gradkowski? You’ve got him.”

When Gradkowski went down, next in line wasn’t Russell, but Charlie Frye. When Frye went down with a concussion and Russell led a comeback win over Denver, Russell still got no consideration. The end may have came Thursday, but it was clear at that point Russell was going to hit the road before the 2010 season.

The company line on McHey-Bey remains supportive.

When ESPN’s Chris Mortensen reported McFadden could be traded on draft day, Cable moved swiftly to call the report “ridiculous” and said, “there’s no way. I don’t know how it came out. I don’t get it. There’s no way Darren McFadden was ever going to be traded from this football team.”

Cable promised reporters a dramatic difference in Heyward-Bey in a pre-draft press conference, raved about his work with 30-pound dumb bells, and talked him up again at the minicamp.

The Raiders have a lot riding on the remaining two-thirds of the triplets which were supposed to energize a sagging offense, and neither player has inspired much confidence based on their play.

McFadden looked in minicamp as he has always looked in practice. He’s quick to the corner, explosive and a skilled receiver. The problem has been contact, which has seen McFadden go down too easily and gotten him injured _ two huge issues for any running back.

Heyward-Bey indeed was more fluid in short and intermediate routes and on many plays appeared comfortable catching the ball away from his body, securing it, and then turning upfield. But there were still too many dropped passes.

One sequence was telling. Heyward-Bey streaked down the right sideline and when Charlie Frye’s pass came a bit short and to the inside, he simply kept on running. The pass fell to to turf, as if Heyward-Bey never saw the pass or simply didn’t make a move to get it.

A short time later, Kyle Boller launched a similar pattern to Louis Murphy, with the Alameda wind appearing to hold the ball up in flight. Murphy shifted gears, glided five yards to the inside and caught the ball in stride.

If McFadden can’t cut it with being a conventional 15- to 20-carry per game running back, the Raiders may at some point consider making him a Ronnie Harmon-style receiver out of the backfield, someone who can make a living with mismatches as a receiver and be a productive, explosive player.

They have no options with Heyward-Bey. He’s a receiver or else.

To be fair, he’s only in his second year, and there has been some progress.

Without Russell around as a magnet for all the draft bust criticism, McFadden and Heyward-Bey will be watched closely.

[CrossBones]

Hopeful with Jackson aboard and the Russell cloud removed something good can happen with McFadden and Bey. We have to hold out hope for both. If these two can contribute in a role Jackson draws up we really might have something to build on. The offensive line will dictate the success of both these guys to a degree. Jackson has to put these guys in situations that utilize their strengths. So far I really don't think we've done much of that. Running between the tackles for McFadden should be scrapped as soon as possible.

[fatdog]

Hopeful with Jackson aboard and the Russell cloud removed something good can happen with McFadden and Bey. We have to hold out hope for both. If these two can contribute in a role Jackson draws up we really might have something to build on. The offensive line will dictate the success of both these guys to a degree. Jackson has to put these guys in situations that utilize their strengths. So far I really don't think we've done much of that. Running between the tackles for McFadden should be scrapped as soon as possible.

I agree. I really don't think last year Cable possessed the offensive mind (creativity) to utilize all these guys to their fullest potential.

[Stanny]

Henderson, Satele, Carlisle, and Green weren't sweeping his legs out from under him the last couple years. He was pretty much doing that on his on.

Yeah but that was after he was able to "deflate"his body to "pinch" through crease that most backs wouldn't have the speed to do such. It bothers me that he runs upright and gets swept as well, but I still think this kid can be a player with some line play. Way too many times was he met in the backfield or had to take the inside gap to the outside.

[Sabers]

Hopeful with Jackson aboard and the Russell cloud removed something good can happen with McFadden and Bey. We have to hold out hope for both. If these two can contribute in a role Jackson draws up we really might have something to build on. The offensive line will dictate the success of both these guys to a degree. Jackson has to put these guys in situations that utilize their strengths. So far I really don't think we've done much of that. Running between the tackles for McFadden should be scrapped as soon as possible.

DHB is too much of a project to expect him to burst into stardom in his second year. And McFadden's success may depend in large measure on how Hue Jackson chooses to use him. But they both seem to be serious professionals who have good attitudes and put in the work, so I'm willing to cut them both some slack and see how things develop.

G.

[TheMadStork]

I agree. I really don't think last year Cable possessed the offensive mind (creativity) to utilize all these guys to their fullest potential.

That might have more to do with the Quarterback-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named than Cable.

From the SI article posted by Postmaster:
When I asked a league source what Russell struggled with the most in Oakland, what part of his game, the answer was devastating: "Everything. Every aspect of the position,'' the source said. "If you had a checklist of everything you want your quarterback to do, he chose not to do it. He chose not to study, not to work out, not to be communicative with teammates, not to exhibit leadership, not to get himself into shape. And he struggled with accuracy, with reading defenses, with audibling. They almost had to run a sub-NFL-level offense with him at quarterback. It was that limiting.

With Gump gone and Wolverine calling plays, we should be able to see if DMac can be effective.

[CrossBones]

DHB is too much of a project to expect him to burst into stardom in his second year. And McFadden's success may depend in large measure on how Hue Jackson chooses to use him. But they both seem to be serious professionals who have good attitudes and put in the work, so I'm willing to cut them both some slack and see how things develop.

G.I'm not anticipating "stardom". Is that what you got out of my post? :eek:

Baby steps with Bey. Maybe Jackson brings something new and innovative to the table. The kid has a good attitude and isn't afraid to work hard. If Jackson can find any sort of niche for him it's a huge plus.

[Sleet]

No doubt. A common problem facing DMAC and DHB is expectations. They are not 1st round talents. Neither is going to the Pro Bowl. Heck, we'll be lucky if one of them gets a 1000 yards rushing, and the other 500 receiving. But they have size and speed, good attitudes, willing to work hard, are team players, and are two of the weapons we have.

Now it is the job of the coaches to put them positions to succeed, to bring the best out of them. Both need plays designed to get the ball while moving in space, where they can utilize their speed. I would still like to see 2 back sets with Bush and DMAC, where DMAC runs behind Bush (like Bo did behind Marcus) or goes in motion, creating a mis-match in a 1 back set. I've seen DMAC block, too, so he could be put in motion to crack back, letting a RG (Campbell) pull and lead Bush around end.

The coach needs short and intermediate plays that DHB and Campbell both can run well. Then he needs to set up the big play that springs DHB deep, where he gets 2 steps and can just outrun the DB to the ball (not having to jump ball for it), and teach DHB how to draw the INT on underthrown balls. That is as important.

[Madturk]

Someone posted an article, maybe Jerry Mac, that Murphy was light years ahead of DHB which is somewhat disconcerting. I'm really looking at him as the late round selection( project) if you will and Murph as the first rounder. Murph appears to have big play ability and is clutch in crunch time. Honestly, not expecting much from DHB this season. Murph, I think is going to be a big time receiver in the NFL.

As far as DMac, this is his make or break year, no pun intended. I don't care if he doesn't rush for 1500 yards as long as he's getting his touches.

[Postmaster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKDfPjRTqso&feature=player_embedded

DMAC and Big Bush

[CrossBones]

Well he sure torn up the Chefs that day. Since then, not so much.

Maybe this will be his breakout year. Jackson has to do a better job using him than Curly did last year. We'll see.

[Postmaster]

He sure looks fucking sweet on the screens....there is no reason that wasn't a staple of the offense last year. Fucking Curly. :shakehead:

[hawaiianboy]

1) That naked toss at the 1:40 mark is one of my favorite plays... We should have down it more than we did when we had Charlie Garner, and we should do it more with DMac...

2) The Raider throwback uni's are sweet... Wish we'd make it our full time white jersey


3) That music was straight Conan The Barbarian

[fade2black24]

I love that beat down of the Chiefs in 2008. The second game of McFadden's career and he rushes for 164 yards. Great game. Bush comes in late, fumbles and almost costs us the game. Then he runs that TD in for the kill shot. Love it.

Anyone remember the shut out of the Chiefs in 2002? Last game of the year in the pouring rain. Zack Crockett had some great runs late in the game. Just bruising, ego deflating runs.

I miss Zack

[boknowsvt]

That hook and ladder play was pretty sweet.

[gannoncannon]

I guess I hadn't realized McFadden's total level of suck last season. The numbers aren't pretty fella's.

McFadden's Game Log, 2009:

Week 1 vs San Diego
17 attempts, 68 yards, 4.0 avg, 11 long, 0 TD, 2 receptions, 25 yards, 13 long

Week 2 @ KC
12 attemps, 35 yards, 2.9 avg, 8 long, 1 TD, 2 receptions, 20 yards, 11 long

Week 3 vs Denver
12 attempts, 45 yards, 3.8 avg, 15 long, 0 TD, 2 receptions, 3 yards, 7 long

Week 4 @ Houston
6 attempts, -2 yards, -0.3 avg, 5 long, 0 TD, 1 reception, 5 yards

Week 5 @ NYG
(no stats)

Week 6 vs PHI
(no stats)

Week 7 vs NYJ
(no stats)

Week 8 @ San Diego
(no stats)

Week 9 BYE

Week 10 vs KC
4 attempts, 11 yards, 2.8 avg, 4 long, 0 TD, no receptions

Week 11 vs Cin
6 attempts, 25 yards, 4.2 avg, 9 long, 0 TD, 3 receptions, 10 yards, 6 long

Week 12 @ Dallas
6 attempts, 23 yards, 3.8 avg, 12 long, 0 TD, 4 receptions, 43 yards, 16 long

Week 13 @ Pittsburgh
9 attempts, 25 yards, 2.8 avg, 7 long, 0 TD, no receptions

Week 14 vs Washington
8 attempts, 21 yards, 2.6 avg, 7 long, 3 receptions, 84 yards, 48 long

Week 15 @ Denver
12 attempts, 74 yards, 6.2 avg, 28 long, 0 TD, no receptions

Week 16 @ Cleveland
7 attempts, 23 yards, 3.3 avg, 8 long, 0 TD, 4 receptions, 55 yards, 23 long

Week 17 vs Baltimore
5 attempts, 9 yards, 1.8 avg, 5 long, 0 TD, no receptions

TOTALS
12 games played, 7 games started
104 attempts, 357 yards, 3.4 avg, 28 long, 1 TD, 21 receptions, 245 yards, 48 long, 0 TD

[Sabers]

I'm not anticipating "stardom". Is that what you got out of my post? :eek:

Baby steps with Bey. Maybe Jackson brings something new and innovative to the table. The kid has a good attitude and isn't afraid to work hard. If Jackson can find any sort of niche for him it's a huge plus.

Not singling out your post, just making a general comment. Agree on the baby steps with DHB. I too like his commitment and work ethic. If he stays on the grind, we could really have something in 2011. This season, any real production we get from him will still be a bonus.

G.

[DonkeyKilla]

GC- add to that how many times he fumbled...

[Sleet]

I guess I hadn't realized McFadden's total level of suck last season. The numbers aren't pretty fella's.

McFadden's Game Log, 2009:

Week 1 vs San Diego
17 attempts, 68 yards, 4.0 avg, 11 long, 0 TD, 2 receptions, 25 yards, 13 long

Week 2 @ KC
12 attemps, 35 yards, 2.9 avg, 8 long, 1 TD, 2 receptions, 20 yards, 11 long

Week 3 vs Denver
12 attempts, 45 yards, 3.8 avg, 15 long, 0 TD, 2 receptions, 3 yards, 7 long

Week 4 @ Houston
6 attempts, -2 yards, -0.3 avg, 5 long, 0 TD, 1 reception, 5 yards

Week 5 @ NYG
(no stats)

Week 6 vs PHI
(no stats)

Week 7 vs NYJ
(no stats)

Week 8 @ San Diego
(no stats)

Week 9 BYE

Week 10 vs KC
4 attempts, 11 yards, 2.8 avg, 4 long, 0 TD, no receptions

Week 11 vs Cin
6 attempts, 25 yards, 4.2 avg, 9 long, 0 TD, 3 receptions, 10 yards, 6 long

Week 12 @ Dallas
6 attempts, 23 yards, 3.8 avg, 12 long, 0 TD, 4 receptions, 43 yards, 16 long

Week 13 @ Pittsburgh
9 attempts, 25 yards, 2.8 avg, 7 long, 0 TD, no receptions

Week 14 vs Washington
8 attempts, 21 yards, 2.6 avg, 7 long, 3 receptions, 84 yards, 48 long

Week 15 @ Denver
12 attempts, 74 yards, 6.2 avg, 28 long, 0 TD, no receptions

Week 16 @ Cleveland
7 attempts, 23 yards, 3.3 avg, 8 long, 0 TD, 4 receptions, 55 yards, 23 long

Week 17 vs Baltimore
5 attempts, 9 yards, 1.8 avg, 5 long, 0 TD, no receptions

TOTALS
12 games played, 7 games started
104 attempts, 357 yards, 3.4 avg, 28 long, 1 TD, 21 receptions, 245 yards, 48 long, 0 TD

Ouch. No wonder we couldn't trade him.

[gannoncannon]

GC- add to that how many times he fumbled...

5 fumbles, 3 of them becoming lost fumbles :(

[gannoncannon]

Ouch. No wonder we couldn't trade him.

1 rushing touchdown and no receiving touchdowns

No 100 yard games.

Only 1 run over 20 yards.

5 fumbles.


This season could be McFadden's last chance.

[Sleet]

1 rushing touchdown and no receiving touchdowns

No 100 yard games.

Only 1 run over 20 yards.

5 fumbles.


This season could be McFadden's last chance.

Here's hoping that Campbell and our collection of young WRs can somehow make people pay for putting 8 in the box, so teams stop putting 8 in the box and forcing the Raiders to pass.

[DonkeyKilla]

DMAC fumbled 5 times last year. a 5:1 fumble to TD ratio and once per every 20 carries or so.
I think he can be a more effective runner with better QB play and better O-line play and maybe getting the rock a little more consistently- but if he doesn't fix his fumbling problem he is worthless.

[Rupert]

but if he doesn't fix his fumbling problem he is worthless.
Especially with Al's temper and irritation with fumbles.

[DonkeyKilla]

bush stats

Season Stats Rushing Receiving Fumbles
Week Date Opp Score Att Yds Y/A Lng TD Rec Yds Y/R Lng TD Fum FumL
1 Sep 14 SDG L 20-24 12 55 4.6 17 1 1 4 4.0 4 0 0 0
2 Sep 20 @ KAN W 13-10 9 35 3.9 10 0 1 17 17.0 17 0 0 0
3 Sep 27 DEN L 3-23 6 20 3.3 9 0 4 20 5.0 8 0 0 0
4 Oct 4 @ HOU L 6-29 3 10 3.3 5 0 1 4 4.0 4 0 1 1
5 Oct 11 @ NYG L 7-44 12 37 3.1 8 1 1 6 6.0 6 0 0 0
6 Oct 18 PHI W 13-9 6 22 3.7 9 0 1 2 2.0 2 0 0 0
7 Oct 25 NYJ L 0-38 8 25 3.1 10 0 1 6 6.0 6 0 0 0
8 Nov 1 @ SDG L 16-24 7 27 3.9 7 0 2 14 7.0 9 0 0 0
9 bye
10 Nov 15 KAN L 10-16 14 119 8.5 60 0 2 10 5.0 8 0 0 0
11 Nov 22 CIN W 20-17 4 27 6.8 10 0 0 0 N/A 0 0 1 1
12 Nov 26 @ DAL L 7-24 3 8 2.7 7 0 0 0 N/A 0 0 0 0
13 Dec 6 @ PIT W 27-24 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 0 N/A 0 0 0 0
14 Dec 13 WAS L 13-34 - - - - - - - - - - - -
15 Dec 20 @ DEN W 20-19 18 133 7.4 40 1 1 11 11.0 11 0 0 0
16 Dec 27 @ CLE L 9-23 10 52 5.2 14 0 1 7 7.0 7 0 0 0
17 Jan 3 BAL L 13-21 10 18 1.8 5 0 1 4 4.0 4 0 0 0
Total 123 589 4.8 60 3 17 105 6.2 17 0 2 2


Last updated through games completed on Feb 7, 2010

[gannoncannon]

bush stats

Season Stats Rushing Receiving Fumbles
Week Date Opp Score Att Yds Y/A Lng TD Rec Yds Y/R Lng TD Fum FumL
1 Sep 14 SDG L 20-24 12 55 4.6 17 1 1 4 4.0 4 0 0 0
2 Sep 20 @ KAN W 13-10 9 35 3.9 10 0 1 17 17.0 17 0 0 0
3 Sep 27 DEN L 3-23 6 20 3.3 9 0 4 20 5.0 8 0 0 0
4 Oct 4 @ HOU L 6-29 3 10 3.3 5 0 1 4 4.0 4 0 1 1
5 Oct 11 @ NYG L 7-44 12 37 3.1 8 1 1 6 6.0 6 0 0 0
6 Oct 18 PHI W 13-9 6 22 3.7 9 0 1 2 2.0 2 0 0 0
7 Oct 25 NYJ L 0-38 8 25 3.1 10 0 1 6 6.0 6 0 0 0
8 Nov 1 @ SDG L 16-24 7 27 3.9 7 0 2 14 7.0 9 0 0 0
9 bye
10 Nov 15 KAN L 10-16 14 119 8.5 60 0 2 10 5.0 8 0 0 0
11 Nov 22 CIN W 20-17 4 27 6.8 10 0 0 0 N/A 0 0 1 1
12 Nov 26 @ DAL L 7-24 3 8 2.7 7 0 0 0 N/A 0 0 0 0
13 Dec 6 @ PIT W 27-24 1 1 1.0 1 0 0 0 N/A 0 0 0 0
14 Dec 13 WAS L 13-34 - - - - - - - - - - - -
15 Dec 20 @ DEN W 20-19 18 133 7.4 40 1 1 11 11.0 11 0 0 0
16 Dec 27 @ CLE L 9-23 10 52 5.2 14 0 1 7 7.0 7 0 0 0
17 Jan 3 BAL L 13-21 10 18 1.8 5 0 1 4 4.0 4 0 0 0
Total 123 589 4.8 60 3 17 105 6.2 17 0 2 2


Last updated through games completed on Feb 7, 2010

Not stellar numbers by any stretch of the imagination, but I think that if Bush has had a good offseason and is in shape, this could be his year to establish himself as our franchise back... provided we get some run blocking.

I don't think Bush will be the next great Raider running back, but at least he can run between the tackles better than McFadden.

[Raidermania12]

Actually bush's numbers are exceptional, especially when he gets over 20 carries...do we have a rocket scientist here to explain what giving him more carries would probably do? :confused:

[NIPS]

DMAC fumbled 5 times last year. a 5:1 fumble to TD ratio and once per every 20 carries or so.
I think he can be a more effective runner with better QB play and better O-line play and maybe getting the rock a little more consistently- but if he doesn't fix his fumbling problem he is worthless.

Fixable

Tiki Barber had what like 35 fumbles in 3 years from 2000-2003? Hey, Adrian Peterson put the pill on the carpet 20 times already.

I remember Alstott too.

Forget the fumbles- what this coaching staff needs to do is get the kid in the flats -- hit him with screens and draw plays. We need to see more back sets

So many things you can do in a 2 back set with Bush and McFadden - Can hand off to Dmac and Bush role play as a Full back -- fake a naked pitch to Dmac and run it up the gut with Bush etc, etc...

I'm a little down on Dmac, but ya know-- if you go back the last couple years.. there were just some fucked up throws by Dummy to a wide open McFadden

Theres only a split second in the flat- you gotta hit Dmac in motion, if you are throwing shoelaces and he's got stop to scoop up a pass- the plays already fucked from the git-go - it happened ALOT, not to mention the over thrown balls to him with nobody within 15 yards of him

[Raidermania12]

According to profootallfocus.com statistics, Bush ranked second in the NFL behind Kansas City’s Jamal Charles with 3.4 yards per carry after first contact. McFadden was ranked 38th out of 61 qualifiers at 2.4 yards after contact, which was actually a slight improvement from his 2.1 figure as a rookie.

Situations with change with down and distance and other variables, but it’s at least worth noting . . .
hmmmm fumbles may be one issue, but this still hasn't been completely proven for sure wrong yet.

some weird lil' stats on here too.

http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=HB&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1
Bush #2 i blocking on there among HB's?

[Raidermania12]

looking at the minicamp photos i still dont get DMC not getting more muscle weight on those legs(especialy when it looks like his upper body is even bigger than last year). DHB has bigger legs than him, WTF?

[Postmaster]

looking at the minicamp photos i still dont get DMC not getting more muscle weight on those legs(especialy when it looks like his upper body is even bigger than last year). DHB has bigger legs than him, WTF?

Gotta be genetics. DMAC's biceps are bigger than his thighs.

[Armyr8rfan]

I remember when Fargas had the same problem...then after about 3-4 years, he suddenly got thicker,pretty much everywhere. He then started breaking tackles. Wonder if it was natural, or some good ole HGH....remember how easily he recovered from the torn knee ligament ? And it was like week 15 when he did it.....always wondered about that....

[Raidermania12]

I remember when Fargas had the same problem...then after about 3-4 years, he suddenly got thicker,pretty much everywhere. He then started breaking tackles. Wonder if it was natural, or some good ole HGH....remember how easily he recovered from the torn knee ligament ? And it was like week 15 when he did it.....always wondered about that....

Let's get Darren some hgh out of sly Stallone personal stash then. Whatever it takes, because leg strength IMO is the biggest hurdle for him in being an every down rb.

[Crow]

I remember seeing closeups of Steve Smith's ankles and thinking "Son of a bitch..."

Oakland should trade for him just to have him show this guys what the weight room is for.

[007]

Its easy to see DMC is no stranger to the weight room.

We can debate whether his skinny legs are the product of genetics or lack of lower body work, but the dudes work ethic ::inside and outside:: the gym is not in question.

[Crow]

Ethic is one thing. Application of that ethic and getting the most out of it is another matter.

[Crow]

And, yes, that's a crack about his bird legs.

[jake99]

Allways thought McFadden was a Robert Smith (Vikes) type. It's now or never, has to shine this year.

[Crow]

I'd like to be more optimistic about his chances this year, but precious little has been done to upgrade the 5 guys in front of him. Maybe having a better playcaller will be all he needs, but I have my doubts. He needs room to run. He can't create on his own. Better blocking will be key to getting anything out of him short of a position change.

[Raidermania12]

I think converting him to wr would be awesome, though I doubt he agrees. Hmm make dhb non-catching super athletic body a rb And make Darren a wr since he can catch passes and has speed.

[Crow]

I still think Charlie Garner's career could have gone a year or two longer in a slot receiver type of role, but eh. That's just me.

[poptart]

McFooting's weaknesses are clear.

It's also clear that he hasn't been used properly.

You've got to get him out of traffic where he has open field ahead of him.

He's got pretty good hands and I can't see any reason why putting him in the slot more often would not make sense.

Seems like he'd be a natural as a kick return guy, also - but ... we haven't seen it.

Guess there's a reason why we haven't.

hmmmmm ....

[DonkeyKilla]

McFooting's weaknesses are clear.

It's also clear that he hasn't been used properly.

You've got to get him out of traffic where he has open field ahead of him.

He's got pretty good hands and I can't see any reason why putting him in the slot more often would not make sense.

Seems like he'd be a natural as a kick return guy, also - but ... we haven't seen it.

Guess there's a reason why we haven't.

hmmmmm ....

KRs need moves- and and an ability to hold on to the rock...

[poptart]

Hold on to the rock, yes, I agree.

Moves on KR, not so much, imo.

It's mostly one quick cut and burst.

I think McF could make it.

[Crow]

McFadden was fumble prone as a return man in college. Not a good quality to have.

Fix his fumbling, then try him on STs.

[RaiderJF]

STs??? Come on now. Need to use him properly in the O. Simple as taking a look at how S Payton utilizes Reggie Bush. Try a little off-tackle, a few pitches, some swing pases, and occasional quick-hitters up the gut to keep the D honest -- that would be a good start. And how bout sprinkling in a little wild hog, Ronnie Brown-style to mix things up. Oh, and maybe a little blocking up front might help too...

[RaiderRobert]

STs??? Come on now. Need to use him properly in the O. Simple as taking a look at how S Payton utilizes Reggie Bush. Try a little off-tackle, a few pitches, some swing pases, and occasional quick-hitters up the gut to keep the D honest -- that would be a good start. And how bout sprinkling in a little wild hog, Ronnie Brown-style to mix things up. Oh, and maybe a little blocking up front might help too...

DMac is NOT Reggie Bush. Bush has wiggle and elusiveness. DMac does not. He has straight line speed, no imagination, and it appears he is destined for Fargas-like greatness due to his penchant for putting his eyes and head down and hitting people. Although Fargas eventually did learn to occasionally try to avoid contact (and thus going down immediately on said contact). I think DMac's best ability to help this team is as a receiving RB coming out of the backfield to the slot. His (type) of speed is much better suited to a WR than a RB.

[DonkeyKilla]

true- DMC is no Bush and not even close. We have tried to use him in the same way and he trips over his own feet. I would like to see him in WC formation- he obviously had a lot of success at it in college. I also hope he can develop some moves and work on that part of his game...

[Postmaster]

DMAC=Fast Willie Parker w/hands

Fast Willie Parker

Personally, I’ve always felt that Parker’s game was rather one-dimensional. Parker is fast. Period. He isn’t a powerful runner, which is why he is often unsuccessful running between the tackles. He also isn’t particularly elusive. He has never been known for having much “swivel in his hips”, and his running style will never be confused with Barry Sanders’.
Oh yeah, and he can’t catch.

[DonkeyKilla]

i'd take some of Wilie Parker's production...

[Rupert]

i'd take some of Wilie Parker's production...

First we'd need something approaching his line.

[DonkeyKilla]

First we'd need something approaching his line.

and his QB and WRs so teams don't stack the box

[Rupert]

and his QB and WRs so teams don't stack the box

And something looking less like an ABC's approach to offensive game planning.

[Langlier]

First we'd need something approaching his line.

please god no

that pitt OL is awful. Decent at run blocking but awful at pass pro.

[CrossBones]

That's what I was thinking. Pitts OL isn't all that as I remember. Better than our though.

[Langlier]

That's what I was thinking. Pitts OL isn't all that as I remember. Better than our though.

i dunno dude. buncha lead foots on that line

LT - Starks
LG - Kemo
C - Hartwig/Pouncey
RG - Essex
RT - Colon

Colon is the only guy I'd consider an upgrade at the same position.

Pouncey is probably better then Satele but I'll wait until I see him on field...

essex is way too lead footed. Kemo is a run blocker but I'd take Gallery every day. Starks is an awful pass protector.

[CrossBones]

Yeah, like I said I didn't get the impression Pitts' line was very good. I didn't think anybody's was as bad as ours except maybe the Seahawks. :p

[Postmaster]

When Willie Parker was actually a decent back, Pitts line was better than it is now. Willie hasn't been productive for a couple of years now.

Faneca was still on the team during Parker's best years IIRC.

[DonkeyKilla]

That's right PM.

In terms of who's line is as bad or worse than ours- I'd have to go with St. Louis and KC.

See a theme here? bad line= bad team. Glad Al & Co are at least trying to do something about it...

[Crow]

When Willie Parker was actually a decent back, Pitts line was better than it is now. Willie hasn't been productive for a couple of years now.

Faneca was still on the team during Parker's best years IIRC.

Pretty much what I was going to say. When Willie was doing his thing, that Steeler OL was actually moving people with regularity. But, inexplicably, the Steelers have let that once vaunted line deteriorate, passing up the opportunity to maintain it for guys like Limas Sweed and Reshard Mendenhall. Quite puzzling.

[Langlier]

That's right PM.

In terms of who's line is as bad or worse than ours- I'd have to go with St. Louis and KC.

See a theme here? bad line= bad team. Glad Al & Co are at least trying to do something about it...

Washington and Buffalo's are pretty god awful too...

[Postmaster]

Pretty much what I was going to say. When Willie was doing his thing, that Steeler OL was actually moving people with regularity. But, inexplicably, the Steelers have let that once vaunted line deteriorate, passing up the opportunity to maintain it for guys like Limas Sweed and Reshard Mendenhall. Quite puzzling.

So basically there is hope for DMAC but maybe not until Veldheer and Campbell come around.

[Langlier]

So basically there is hope for DMAC but maybe not until Veldheer and Campbell come around.

dmacs best hope for value is as a receiver out of the backfield. If he can learn to be a one cut and go RB he could really blow up if we keep going with the ZBS. Right now he has problems getting to the hole and avoiding the trash. I'm expecting good things if he ever gets through the hole...

[fade2black24]

I'm very interested to see who is running with the first team O-line next week.

I know Barnes is getting reps at LG. I wonder if he also gets first team reps at RG?

Is Walker the starting RT?

Does Veldheer get time at RT?

Should be very interesting.

[Postmaster]

dmacs best hope for value is as a receiver out of the backfield. If he can learn to be a one cut and go RB he could really blow up if we keep going with the ZBS. Right now he has problems getting to the hole and avoiding the trash. I'm expecting good things if he ever gets through the hole...

What holes? That is the problem, the o-line is getting zero push and DMAC and Bush have enough trouble just getting out of the backfield and making it to the LOS.

If DMAC was running behind the same line Willie Parker had from 2005-2007 he would probably have the same stats if not better.

2005 1202 yards 4 TD's
2006 1494 yards 13 TD's
2007 1316 yards 2 TD's



EDIT: Well maybe not the same stats and maybe not all that close but you get the point. To put it another way, Parker would definitely not have those same numbers with the Raiders from 05-07.

[Sleet]

I'm very interested to see who is running with the first team O-line next week.

I know Barnes is getting reps at LG. I wonder if he also gets first team reps at RG?

Is Walker the starting RT?

Does Veldheer get time at RT?

Should be very interesting.

Carlisle might be the last scholarship player. Is pissed me off when I read that Barnes was taking snaps at LG. Let him compete at RG for Carlisle or RT for Green. Let Veldheer back up Hendo and Gallery. If Barnes can't win a starting spot ahead of Hendo, Carlisle or Walker, how in the hell was he playing LT for the Jags for 4 or so years? They were a good running team for 3 of those years.

[Postmaster]

Carlisle might be the last scholarship player. Is pissed me off when I read that Barnes was taking snaps at LG. Let him compete at RG for Carlisle or RT for Green. Let Veldheer back up Hendo and Gallery. If Barnes can't win a starting spot ahead of Hendo, Carlisle or Walker, how in the hell was he playing LT for the Jags for 4 or so years? They were a good running team for 3 of those years.

I wonder if he is having trouble in a right handed stance. Cable said at one point during the offseason that Barnes would be the RT. Even if Langston looked better, why wouldn't Barnes be backing him up? Only thing I can think of is he can't get comfortable on the right side. :confused:

[DonkeyKilla]

Washington and Buffalo's are pretty god awful too...

kinda rounds out all the shitty teams- i don't watch enough but i'd have to guess Detroit's OL is not very good. Browns have a good OL on one side but the right side is not good.

OL is the foundation of every football team.

[fade2black24]

Carlisle might be the last scholarship player. Is pissed me off when I read that Barnes was taking snaps at LG. Let him compete at RG for Carlisle or RT for Green. Let Veldheer back up Hendo and Gallery. If Barnes can't win a starting spot ahead of Hendo, Carlisle or Walker, how in the hell was he playing LT for the Jags for 4 or so years? They were a good running team for 3 of those years.

Yeah I don't understand it either. I remember reading that Campbell was taking reps at 2nd team RG. It is possible that the coaching staff is just experimenting with the OL. I really can't stand to watch Cooper Carlisle get pushed around. I think Walker will be decent at RT. He has shown to be in better shape. If he keeps up the work ethic, he may be in great shape by training camp.

I'd like to see our starting O-Line heading into training camp as:

Henderson Gallery Satele Barnes Walker

[Sleet]

I wonder if he is having trouble in a right handed stance. Cable said at one point during the offseason that Barnes would be the RT. Even if Langston looked better, why wouldn't Barnes be backing him up? Only thing I can think of is he can't get comfortable on the right side. :confused:

Its not even OTAs. Its not time to give up, but to work harder.

[Rupert]

When Willie Parker was actually a decent back, Pitts line was better than it is now. Willie hasn't been productive for a couple of years now.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner. Parker was bad the last two seasons (relatively). When he was effective, his line was better. That's the kind of line I was talking about.

I agree they're not all that right now, but then again, neither are the Steelers. They've dropped down to average with an average line.

Surprised? Nope.

[Rupert]

Pretty much what I was going to say. When Willie was doing his thing, that Steeler OL was actually moving people with regularity. But, inexplicably, the Steelers have let that once vaunted line deteriorate, passing up the opportunity to maintain it for guys like Limas Sweed and Reshard Mendenhall. Quite puzzling.

Yep, strange decisions. They let their line get bad for those guys, we delayed improving ours for DMAC and DHB. :confused:

[Crow]

So basically there is hope for DMAC but maybe not until Veldheer and Campbell come around.

Goes back to part of my argument against drafting McFadden in the first place. If you put together a stud-heavy offensive line, there's no need to drop a high 1st rounder on a RB. Now, after dropping a high #1 on a back, it looks as if his only hope is to studdify the O-line.

Building the team backwards. This is what happens.

[Crow]

Yep, strange decisions. They let their line get bad for those guys, we delayed improving ours for DMAC and DHB. :confused:

Fat men need love too. How easily people forget.

[Rupert]

Goes back to part of my argument against drafting McFadden in the first place. If you put together a stud-heavy offensive line, there's no need to drop a high 1st rounder on a RB. Now, after dropping a high #1 on a back, it looks as if his only hope is to studdify the O-line.

Building the team backwards. This is what happens.

Remember, they went the FA route on OL hoping for plug and play fat men. Unfortunately, they got all plug and no play (well, maybe a little play - but still).

I think the real failure in the "plan" for the OL was not having the next generation in place when the current (lackluster) generation outstayed their effectiveness (first game or two).

[Crow]

Yeah, there's a lot to be said for having a plan that extends beyond breakfast. Al can't seem to get past "How would you like your eggs?"

[TheMadStork]

Fat men need love too. How easily people forget.

Maybe Gump's agent can use that line while he's trolling GM's for tryouts.

(Sorry, Bones, I couldn't resist that one...)

[Rupert]

Yeah, there's a lot to be said for having a plan that extends beyond breakfast. Al can't seem to get past "How would you like your eggs?"

It looks like we're a year behind where we should have been on the "plan". Blame that on the Kiffin fiasco if you will, but Al definitely dropped the ball to grind that axe.

Regardless, we're back on track and could be respectable this season.

[Crow]

Maybe Al is ADD. He does seem to get distracted easily. Get the old bastard some Adderall and he might improve.

[Rupert]

Maybe Al is ADD. He does seem to get distracted easily. Get the old bastard some Adderall and he might improve.

Well, I think he knows he can't keep track of everything as well as he could 5 years ago, let alone 20. I think he was really happy to have Bruce and Gruden keeping tabs on lots of things for him, but wasn't comfortable with Turner, Shell, or Kiffin.

It looks like he's found a comfort zone with Cable. We might just be in for a decent ride if Jackson can get the offense clicking.

[TheMadStork]

Well, I think he knows he can't keep track of everything as well as he could 5 years ago, let alone 20. I think he was really happy to have Bruce and Gruden keeping tabs on lots of things for him, but wasn't comfortable with Turner, Shell, or Kiffin.

It looks like he's found a comfort zone with Cable. We might just be in for a decent ride if Jackson can get the offense clicking.

I've said this before, but I think Cable's most crucial job skill is understanding Al (which may not help him get another job, but will definitely help him keep his current one).

This is all pure speculation, but here's how I think conversations between Al & previous coaches and Al & Cable transpired.

Al: "This is what we're going to do"
Norv: "Yes, sir, Mr. Davis, whatever you say, Mr. Davis!"

Al: "This is what we're going to do."
Shell: ... <birds chirping>

Al: "This is what we're going to do."
Kiffin: "That's stupid."
(Conversation deteriorates from here)

Al: "This is what we're going to do."
Cable: "That's a great idea, Mr. Davis, but how about if we try this, too?"

A little continuity will do us wonders and if Cable can hold Al's trust, we just might be OK.

[Rupert]

I've said this before, but I think Cable's most crucial job skill is understanding Al (which may not help him get another job, but will definitely help him keep his current one).

This is all pure speculation, but here's how I think conversations between Al & previous coaches and Al & Cable transpired.

Al: "This is what we're going to do"
Norv: "Yes, sir, Mr. Davis, whatever you say, Mr. Davis!"

Al: "This is what we're going to do."
Shell: ... <birds chirping> {okay, cut it out :pound: you know he fumbled in his pocket for a note card, unwrapped a crumpled piece of paper and wrote something down with a little nub of a pencil. You know it.}

Al: "This is what we're going to do."
Kiffin: "That's stupid."
(Conversation deteriorates from here)

Al: "This is what we're going to do."
Cable: "That's a great idea, Mr. Davis, but how about if we try this, too?"

A little continuity will do us wonders and if Cable can hold Al's trust, we just might be OK.

The process is a litle more interactive, but essentially right. It's more like Al asking what the plan is for the week, picking it apart in real time, and trying to guide the coach into doing what he wants by just outthinking or bullying them.

Turner and Shell absolutely did the yes sir thing. Kiffin did too, and then did what he wanted on Sunday. Cable comes to the table with ideas, counters Al's questions well, and seems to have a plan that satisfies Al.

[CrossBones]

Turner and Shell absolutely did the yes sir thing. Kiffin did too, and then did what he wanted on Sunday. Seems pretty clear that is how it went down with Kiffin.

[Crow]

I dunno what the big deal is. That 72 yard FG attempt seemed legit.

[Solve4X]

I dunno what the big deal is. That 72 yard FG attempt seemed legit.

I was at that game and it was much closer than it looked on TV. :)

[EZRaider]

I've said this before, but I think Cable's most crucial job skill is understanding Al (which may not help him get another job, but will definitely help him keep his current one).

Al: "This is what we're going to do."
Cable: "That's a great idea, Mr. Davis, but how about if we try this, too?"

A little continuity will do us wonders and if Cable can hold Al's trust, we just might be OK.

Completely agree, and if you listen to John Madden at all, he says that's the way it was with him....Al expects and appreciates feedback and ideas in return...as long as it's constructive.