still looking to aquire a high profile QB?

[Langlier]

I'm not mentioning any names and well... I have only whispers at this point...

but we could be setting our sites on a younger QB then McNabb... who has a very good pedigree so far. But recently has not endeared himself to management and they may be looking to cut and run. If I hear anything more concrete... I'll inform you guys - this is smoke-like in its current phase.

[Crow]

I'm not mentioning any names and well... I have only whispers at this point...

but we could be setting our sites on a younger QB then McNabb... who has a very good pedigree so far. But recently has not endeared himself to management and they may be looking to cut and run. If I hear anything more concrete... I'll inform you guys - this is smoke-like in its current phase.

So...what's the going rate on rapists these days? :D

[brick]

Ben Rapelsburger is going to be a Raider... this is huge news lang

[Langlier]

Ben Rapelsburger is going to be a Raider... this is huge news lang

don't take it as that. i was certain the eagles deal was going down. this is a much bigger longshot. but theres interest from our end.

[SoCalRaider]

Until the Steelers land a viable replacement, I don't see why the Steelers would take a blow torch to the offense only 1 year removed from a Super Bowl.

What would have been interesting would have been a 3 team deal sending McNabb to the Steelers and date rape over here. That would have been the only scenario where I see the Steelers letting date rape go.

[system7]

Not a high profile QB anymore but what about Marc Bulger?

http://twitter.com/ADAM_SCHEFTER

The St. Louis Rams have released QB Marc Bulger, the team announced today.

[hawaiianboy]

If they like Dennis Dixon as much as they are rumored to and are serious about the statements they are making about getting back to being a run first team, then maybe the negative publicity aversive Rooneys will be open to this...

I'm not getting my hopes up, but I would love for this to happen... I would imagine something like our 1st and hometown hero Gradkowski could get it done all current things considered...

[DarthRaidor]

If we can land Big Ben then I say screw McNabb any damn way. I'll take a 2 time Super Bowl champ over McNizzle any day of the week.

Marc Bulger on the other hand, they can keep. :nono:

[DonkeyKilla]

Rapelessburger has serious legal issues to deal with first doesnt' he?

[DonkeyKilla]

Bulger is better than any of the QBs on our roster- but if we don't seriously upgrade our OL he won't last one game- dude is a statue.

[brick]

don't take it as that. i was certain the eagles deal was going down. this is a much bigger longshot. but theres interest from our end.

That is the problem with the quick reply thing, no Smilie faces. I just wanted to be the 1st to jokingly overreact.

[DarthRaidor]

Rapelessburger has serious legal issues to deal with first doesnt' he?

Has he even been charged with anything yet? Why are people calling him a rapist???

[DonkeyKilla]

he has been accused of rape twice-- i'm going with where there's smoke there's fire. Kinda like JR being fat and lazy.

[DarthRaidor]

he has been accused of rape twice-- i'm going with where there's smoke there's fire. Kinda like JR being fat and lazy.

Well JR is definitely fat and lazy. Ben's accuser's haven't proven anything yet. Being accused without a conviction is kinda hard to believe now a days due to all the technology and DNA shit we got. If he did it, he'd have been busted already. At least that's what I'm assuming.

[RZ]

Rapelessburger has serious legal issues to deal with first doesnt' he?

if you are talking about the night club chick in the bathroom incident, its been dropped.

[DonkeyKilla]

ok, i was out of the loop on the dude's situation- I'd take the Big Ben in Oaktown for sure.

[CrossBones]

if you are talking about the night club chick in the bathroom incident, its been dropped.Link? I hadn't heard anything has been dropped. In fact I hear the GPD were ready to send the case to the DA. I hope they do drop the case. As of right now, this moment, Cheeseburger is guilt of nothing more than being a dumb fuck.

[RZ]

Link? I hadn't heard anything has been dropped. In fact I hear the GPD were ready to send the case to the DA. I hope they do drop the case. As of right now, this moment, Cheeseburger is guilt of nothing more than being a dumb fuck.

to lazy to dig it up for ya, go to junkies and grab it and read it for yourself. Jpele keeps us up to date on it lol. It was right after the DA dropped the request for his DNA since there was nothing to match it to.

[brick]

to lazy to dig it up for ya, go to junkies and grab it and read it for yourself. Jpele keeps us up to date on it lol. It was right after the DA dropped the request for his DNA since there was nothing to match it to.

I think you are off a little on this on RZ,

Unless something changed over the weekend, the police are wrapping up their investigation to present it to the DA:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/04/ga-police-close-to-wrapping-up-investigation-of-steelers-ben-roethlisberger/1

And, if I am recalling correctly, the reason for dropping the request was that there was no question as to who's semen it was, just whether or not it was consensual.

[DonkeyKilla]

and if there really are no issues.. why would Steelers want to get rid of him?

[Langlier]

and if there really are no issues.. why would Steelers want to get rid of him?

image and headaches

motorcyclegate, last years legal issues, this years legal issues - the rooneys like a clean organizaion. Ben has strayed from that

[Raidervinny]

Not a high profile QB anymore but what about Marc Bulger?

http://twitter.com/ADAM_SCHEFTER

I don't know about that guy. A few weeks ago I remember reading an article where Rams announcer D'Marco Farr was very critical of him saying he had all the talent in the world but lacked passion and leadership. Here's the exact quote:

I think that ship has sailed. I think Marc Bulger has played his last snap for the St. Louis Rams, and I'm confident in saying that. Now there's a guy with all the talent in the world in my opinion. Has the same brain as Kurt Warner; they were trained under the same guy in Mike Martz. But absolutely no charisma. I mean the quarterback position is the guy everyone on the team wants to be. I don't think anyone wants to be Marc Bulger, so they're gonna need a new quarterback coming into 2010, either through free agency or through the draft.

It's a sad deal because the guy can wing the football. I mean the guy can flat play. But it's just -- he has aboslutely zero presence. Kyle Boller had a bigger presence than Marc Bulger did last season, and Kyle Boller is not half the player Marc Bulger is.

I'm not about to say Farr's word is gospel but at the very least he raises a valid concern or two.

The knock on him (other than his presence) has been his lack of mobility and durability issues. With our line would he be a good fit? Probably not. However, if we were able to sign him for the veteran minimum and bring him in to see what he has left, I wouldn't be upset.

[RZ]

I think you are off a little on this on RZ,

Unless something changed over the weekend, the police are wrapping up their investigation to present it to the DA:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2010/04/ga-police-close-to-wrapping-up-investigation-of-steelers-ben-roethlisberger/1

And, if I am recalling correctly, the reason for dropping the request was that there was no question as to who's semen it was, just whether or not it was consensual.

Police: Roethlisberger's DNA not needed; no evidence to compare.


http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_673061.html

This was from March 24th.

Apparently the Rape kit wasn't needed, it was a stomach pump that was need to find the DNA to link her to him ;)

[Raidervinny]

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_673061.html

This was from March 24th.

Apparently the Rape kit wasn't needed, it was a stomach pump that was need to find the DNA to link her to him ;)

The last I heard (from both ESPN's on-air attorney and PFT's Florio) was that since the encounter was said to be consensual that DNA testing was no longer necessary. From what I have read and heard, the initial hook-up was consensual but it then progressed further than the girl intended and she alleges Ben tried to force the action further. Both attornies said that if these allegation were true then there woudn't be any need to get Ben's semen for DNA testing as both parties have stated that the initial sexual contact was consensual. The truth has yet to be revealed and the case has yet to be dropped. Ben is still swinging in the wind.

[RZ]

The last I heard (from both ESPN's on-air attorney and PFT's Florio) was that since the encounter was said to be consensual that DNA testing was no longer necessary. From what I have read and heard, the initial hook-up was consensual but it then progressed further than the girl intended and she alleges Ben tried to force the action further. Both attornies said that if these allegation were true then there woudn't be any need to get Ben's semen for DNA testing as both parties have stated that the initial sexual contact was consensual. The truth has yet to be revealed and the case has yet to be dropped. Ben is still swinging in the wind.

Dude, the GBI stated publically why the DNA from Roth wasn't needed. There is nothing to compare it to and both sides have acknowledged this for more than two weeks. What part of that don't you understand lol You can believe ESPN if you want to. I'll listen to what the GBI, DA, Police and both Attorneys have already made public knowledge (for more than two weeks now mind you).

[Raidervinny]

Dude, the GBI stated publically why the DNA from Roth wasn't needed. There is nothing to compare it to and both sides have acknowledged this for more than two weeks. What part of that don't you understand lol You can believe ESPN if you want to. I'll listen to what the GBI, DA, Police and both Attorneys have already made public knowledge (for more than two weeks now mind you).

Whatever the reason, the DNA no being needed isn't an indication of guilt or innocence. The issue here is that the case has not been dropped yet. Even if this doesn't end up going to criminal court there's still a chance this goes to civil court. Also, the Nevada case may still go to civil court. Basically, we no nothing...except that Ben's is not outta the woods yet...not by a longshot.

[Crow]

I don't care where he puts his dick. How many years are left on his contract?

[CrossBones]

I think that ship has sailed. I think Marc Bulger has played his last snap for the St. Louis Rams, and I'm confident in saying that. Now there's a guy with all the talent in the world in my opinion. Has the same brain as Kurt Warner; they were trained under the same guy in Mike Martz. But absolutely no charisma. I mean the quarterback position is the guy everyone on the team wants to be. I don't think anyone wants to be Marc Bulger, so they're gonna need a new quarterback coming into 2010, either through free agency or through the draft.Sounds an awful lot like Jason Campbell to me. When I watch Campbell I always think he's lacking in the leadership area. Exactly what the Oakland Raiders don't need.

[RZ]

Whatever the reason, the DNA no being needed isn't an indication of guilt or innocence. The issue here is that the case has not been dropped yet. Even if this doesn't end up going to criminal court there's still a chance this goes to civil court. Also, the Nevada case may still go to civil court. Basically, we no nothing...except that Ben's is not outta the woods yet...not by a longshot.

Guilty until proven Innocent based on media speculation. Classic lol Personally, I could give a rats ass about it as this doesn't even concern the Raiders. But hey, I know raider fans love to speculate about speculation, so speculate away till this one falls apart as well :D

[Raidervinny]

Guilty until proven Innocent based on media speculation. Classic lol Personally, I could give a rats ass about it as this doesn't even concern the Raiders. But hey, I know raider fans love to speculate about speculation, so speculate away till this one falls apart as well :D

Personally, I think he's innocent. I thinks he's a total douchenozzle but I don't think he's a rapist. Either way, I'm with you...I don't think the Steelers are close to being ready to trade him.

[jatfly]

Look I live in thew BURGH and let me tell ya, there is no way the Rooneys let Ben go anywhere......This case will go away like the last one. If anyone gets released or trade look at a MVP from the SB Mr. Holmes will be the fall guy in Pittsburgh if there is one.

I don't buy any of this mess. Ben will be talked to but the Rooneys, I am betting the motorcycle deal was the first so nothing was said the last time everything went away, so they may not have said anything then either. But I assure you living in a town where these fuckers live and breathe Stillers Football...No way Rooney lets ben go anywhere, lets not forget there are more then a few guys on this team that have Records not and one is a Def MVP....This isn't the clean and Shiny Stillers that you all think they are. Let's not forget the kicker they franchised, beat the hell out of a paper towel dispenser and also threw a bike at a cop...
also just from personal stories Ben is a total pussy hound and a real tool and it's no wonder he gets into shit, he isn't the brightest bulb, but he can Play football..I would take him cause he wins, but that is why he isn't going anywhere.

[Madturk]

I don't care where he puts his dick. How many years are left on his contract?

That's what I'm talking about:pound:

[Crow]

So long as he and Satele keep it platonic on the field, I see no reason for concern.

[RaiderJF]

keep dreaming...

[Crow]

So you're saying Ben would rape Satele on the field in full view of everyone? Wow.

I mean...I can live with having an accused rapist at QB. I just don't think I could support him if he were a homo.

[DarkDays]

the obligatory "that guy would get killed behind this line" response.

[Crow]

He got killed behind Pittsburgh's too and somehow managed to survive...and win a Super Bowl. I figure he'd live long enough to see Al wake up and add a few new OLs.


This isn't going to happen, but it's amusing.

[Raidervinny]

the obligatory "that guy would get killed behind this line" response.

He's probably the one QB that could still thrive behind our line. His game is perfectly suited for our team.

[Limee]

It is nice to want things, but this isn't happening.

[BigTron]

I dont see Pitts dumping Ben.

[massraider]

I dont see Pitts dumping Ben.

He'd have to ride through a Pittsburgh church without a helmet waving the severed heads of 3 hookers.

[RaiderJF]

this thread should be relisted as "still looking to acquire a competent GM?"

Not to beat a dead horse, but until this organization makes big changes at the very top we are looking at a continued string of double digit loss seasons. There is a reason why good players (like McNabb) shun the opportunity to come here these days... We can dream about the next savior player riding into town on a white horse to bring this organization back to its glory days, but whether its Seymour, J Walker, D Hall, G Willson, DMac, JRuss, etc, etc, etc, it ain't going to make a damn bit of difference unless the philosophy and culture of the organization changes from the top. Can't just line em up, blow the whistle, and let the best players win any longer. Have to be able to play smart football that keeps the opponent off-balance. Problem is that the Raiders have always been a little short in that department.

[Rupert]

He'd have to ride through a Pittsburgh church without a helmet waving the severed heads of 3 hookers.

O.J. would have to get released to Pittsburgh first.

[Rupert]

this thread should be relisted as "still looking to acquire a competent GM?"

Al can be as "competent" as he wants to be.

The point being, he doesn't want to be someone else's definition of competent. Never has and never will.

[Crow]

Thus, he'll never be competent. Whether it's by choice or through sheer inability, doesn't really matter. The end result is the same.

[Raider Bill]

I misread this thread title, and was thinking we already have a high (on sizzurp) QB

[Rupert]

Thus, he'll never be competent. Whether it's by choice or through sheer inability, doesn't really matter. The end result is the same.

He'll never be what most of us consider competent, but then again, he owns the lion's share and runs the Raiders. I guess that makes him competent in at least some ways. :p

[Crow]

He'll never be what most of us consider competent, but then again, he owns the lion's share and runs the Raiders. I guess that makes him competent in at least some ways. :p

That really pass for logic where you come from? :bugeye:

[Rupert]

That really pass for logic where you come from? :bugeye:

It passes for observation where anyone with any sense comes from. :rolleyes:

[TheMadStork]

He'll never be what most of us consider competent, but then again, he owns the lion's share and runs the Raiders. I guess that makes him competent in at least some ways. :p

I think it's more accurate to say that he used to be competent. NFL ownership isn't like a driver's license. Once you have it, you have it. You don't have to prove that you still know what you're doing every 3 years. Al, unfortunately, is at the point where he's driving at 25 in the passing lane with his turn signal permanently on.

[Crow]

It passes for observation where anyone with any sense comes from. :rolleyes:

If you say so.

[Crow]

I think it's more accurate to say that he used to be competent. NFL ownership isn't like a driver's license. Once you have it, you have it. You don't have to prove that you still know what you're doing every 3 years. Al, unfortunately, is at the point where he's driving at 25 in the passing lane with his turn signal permanently on.

http://www.treehugger.com/Baby-Boomers-too-old-to-drive-photo.jpg

[RaiderJF]

Al can be as "competent" as he wants to be.

The point being, he doesn't want to be someone else's definition of competent. Never has and never will.

If directing the ship to the worst record in the league over the last 7 years is your definition of competency, I would say you have a pretty low threshold in determining competency. I know a lot of college kids that would love to have you as their prof and grading against your curve.

[Crow]

If directing the ship to the worst record in the league over the last 7 years is your definition of competency, I would say you have a pretty low threshold in determining competency. I know a lot of college kids that would love to have you as their prof and grading against your curve.

QF:pound:

[NIPS]

"Whats wrong with ya figgers?"

Look dummies....ya know who are ...

Its real simple

Stop the run and run the ball

Thats it -- yes, it's that simple ya autism MF'ers

You do those two things and you can win 8+ games -- Even with the Nips at QB

Yes, Got damnit I said it-- I will, even at 45 years old hit DMAC in the flats and hand the ball off to Bush

That with a Natty Lite in my hand

Heres how we turn this ship around--- None of you MF'ers seems to have a solution so Imma step up and run this shit myself

1) Stop the run --

2)Run the ball -

Thats it

The passes to Murphy/Schillens and Zach will come via *insert any QB*

It's a very easy game to figure out

[jatfly]

"Whats wrong with ya figgers?"

Look dummies....ya know who are ...

Its real simple

Stop the run and run the ball

Thats it -- yes, it's that simple ya autism MF'ers

You do those two things and you can win 8+ games -- Even with the Nips at QB

Yes, Got damnit I said it-- I will, even at 45 years old hit DMAC in the flats and hand the ball off to Bush

That with a Natty Lite in my hand

Heres how we turn this ship around--- None of you MF'ers seems to have a solution so Imma step up and run this shit myself

1) Stop the run --

2)Run the ball -

Thats it

The passes to Murphy/Schillens and Zach will come via *insert any QB*

It's a very easy game to figure out

Truer words have never been spoken

[SBISR8RGOAL]

Evening AFC West news and notes
April, 9, 2010 Apr 9 7:45PM ETEmail Print Share By Bill Williamson

The Washington Post is reporting that replaced Redskins starting quarterback Jason Campbell is about to sign his restricted free agent tender. That could expedite a trade out of Washington. It was reported earlier this week the Raiders are interested in Campbell.

It doesn’t appear the Raiders had a scouting contingent at Jimmy Clausen’s Pro Day on Friday. ESPN’s Mel Kiper believes he will be the team’s pick at No. 8. The lack of an Oakland presence doesn’t necessarily mean much, but if the Raiders were seriously considering him, they’d probably take a close look at Clausen at some point.

It is being reported Oakland is looking at Northwestern quarterback Mike Kafka. He is expected to be a mid-round pick. There’s no doubt Oakland is hoping to add a quarterback somehow this offseason.

[DonkeyKilla]

sure would like to know the price for Campbell.

[massraider]

sure would like to know the price for Campbell.

Well, he's on a one year deal, and McNabb just went for a 2nd and 3rd. Figure teams know the Skins might even wind up cutting him.

I figure he winds up going for a 4th at most.

[007]

I think you are right on there.

Quinn for 7th and change, McNabb for 2nd and 3rd.

I figure Troy Smith for a 5th or Campbell for a 4th.

I'm good with either to be honest. (I'll take those two over Kafka/Crompton/Canfield in the 5th etc.)

[Crow]

10-4

[DonkeyKilla]

Would be good if we could make some kind of trade to get a lower 4th- ours is pretty close to being a third...

[RF34]

According to this dickhead at Fanhouse (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/04/09/shanahan-believes-redskins-made-great-grab-in-mcnabb/), some "unnamed Raider exec" doesn't think we need another QB....:mad:

Those were among the reasons the Oakland Raiders were interested in McNabb.

Raiders sources say that the Eagles contacted the Raiders about a McNabb trade and that is how discussions were generated. The Raiders thought they had McNabb before he slipped through to Washington.

Now the Raiders appear settled on at least one more season of JaMarcus Russell at quarterback. One more year with more emphasis on a sink-or-swim, get-it-done-or-bite-the-bullet approach with Russell.

Russell is considered in Oakland the primary issue, a talented quarterback who for whatever reasons has not connected with his coaches and teammates and has shut it down when troubled.

That makes new Raiders offensive coordinator Hue Jackson the coach in the entire NFL this fall who has the greatest challenge.

Jackson arrived from the Baltimore Ravens staff and was told by people that know Russell well that he had to build trust with Russell, that he had to enlist the help of Russell's closest family members in his hometown of Mobile, Ala., and that he had to be tough and challenging with Russell.

The Raiders say so far, so good. That the Jackson/Russell connection is building early momentum and results.

A Raiders executive, requesting anonymity, said: "There has been such a lack of confidence in this team as a whole. The intangibles need to be rebuilt. It's awful. The great teams go out there and know they will win; the good teams think they can, the average teams hope they can and the bottom ones hope they don't lose too badly. I don't think it's bottom now for us. But we have to develop an attitude, a belief as a team and organization of winning thinking and preparation. That has to come from JaMarcus and from his position. It's his job to lose. He is aware of that.''

Look for the Raiders to give Russell help by drafting an offensive lineman with their first-round pick at No -8. The Raiders will also look for defensive linemen in the draft and, yes, wide receivers.

They are still looking for that big-play threat that makes defenses focus on that one player, opening things for others. Maybe running back Darren McFadden can do it. Maybe Darrius Heyward-Bey -- the Raiders surprise draft pick at No.-7 last year -- can still be that guy. The Raiders, certainly, will draft another candidate for the job.

And count on Russell growing up and helping lift up his team.

[TheMadStork]

I get the distinct impression of smoke being blown up our asses...

The Raiders say so far, so good. That the Jackson/Russell connection is building early momentum and results.

Based on what evidence?

A Raiders executive, requesting anonymity, said: "There has been such a lack of confidence in this team as a whole. The intangibles need to be rebuilt. It's awful. The great teams go out there and know they will win; the good teams think they can, the average teams hope they can and the bottom ones hope they don't lose too badly. I don't think it's bottom now for us. But we have to develop an attitude, a belief as a team and organization of winning thinking and preparation. That has to come from JaMarcus and from his position. It's his job to lose. He is aware of that.''

WTF? Telling the guy who's never been motivated that the job is his to lose? That'll light a fire under him. And what about Cable saying that there would be an open competition?


And count on Russell growing up and helping lift up his team.

Oh, he's growing, alright. He should hit 310 any day now. And maybe if someone could convince him that the team is a cheeseburger, he'd lift them.

Looks like another wasted year coming up.

[Madturk]

I'm of the opinion that Al hasn't quite given up on the Big Dummy but I don't necessarily think he'll be handed the job again. If he is, I think Raider Nation will go ballistic. I personally will be a casual observer for the 2010 season if that's the case.

I also feel that all this D McNabb talk was posturing on Al's part to light a fire under Ja Dummy's ass. If Al really would have wanted McNabb, he'd have made the deal work.

I wouldn't put a lot of credence in that article.

[fade2black24]

Any source that is "per unnamed Raider's executive" sounds like BS to me.

[DonkeyKilla]

Jason Campbell please.

[TheMadStork]

Any source that is "per unnamed Raider's executive" sounds like BS to me.

Has X been promoted to the executive suite? That article sounds like one of his posts.

[SoCalRaider]

Tough to say how much of that is pure bs and how much of that might actually be from some mole in the organization.....

Though the one immediate takeaway I do have is I will bet that in the eyes of Al.... the job is likely Russell's to lose.... which is typical of the cancer he brings to this mess when his entire coaching staff likely wants to rid themselves of the guy, while Al is likely to pull rank on all of them and force that clown into the starting lineup week 1.... which will essentially kill the season before it ever starts....

Damn shame McNabb never made it here....

[eleven]

As far as the "It's Russell's job to lose" thing -- I'll beleive it when I see it. Not until then.

Why throw the whole locker-room under the bus for one guy?

And Campbell for a fourth isn't too bad. Rather have Lefevour in the third though. Give me McClain at 8, BPA O/L in the 2nd, and Lefevour in the 3rd.

[Raider Bill]

Why throw the whole locker-room under the bus for one guy?

.

Because the Managing General Partner is a moron, who believes that chemistry doesnt matter.

[Langlier]

I think the move of Holmes for a 5th shows the no-nonsense approach pitt is taking with their team. If they are confident enough in Dixon or think they could get Clausen up to speed quickly (and get him in the draft)... This "could" happen. No official talks outside of our organization... but inside is a different story.

[R8RSFAN]

Because the Managing General Partner is a moron, who believes that chemistry doesnt matter.

Gospel truth right there.:check:

[Raidervinny]

I think the move of Holmes for a 5th shows the no-nonsense approach pitt is taking with their team. If they are confident enough in Dixon or think they could get Clausen up to speed quickly (and get him in the draft)... This "could" happen. No official talks outside of our organization... but inside is a different story.

Funny how their 'no nonsense' approach doesn't apply to their franchise QB.

[Langlier]

Funny how their 'no nonsense' approach doesn't apply to their franchise QB.

i wouldn't say it doesn't; more just that nothing has been pinned on roth and they didn't deem the motorcycle incident bad enough to move him. That said if Goodell comes down with a suspension or any type of punishment that may hasten his departure. like i said its a long shot but the opportunity is there.

Harrison on the other hand... that seems to be the double standard

[Raidervinny]

i wouldn't say it doesn't; more just that nothing has been pinned on roth and they didn't deem the motorcycle incident bad enough to move him. That said if Goodell comes down with a suspension or any type of punishment that may hasten his departure. like i said its a long shot but the opportunity is there.

Harrison on the other hand... that seems to be the double standard

Harrison...and that other WR that they dumped a year or so ago. They drop a guy like him over allgations and say that it's because they have a hard-line policy against this type of element on their team but seem to ignore all that when it comes to Ben. They know franchise QB's don't grow on trees.

[Rupert]

They know franchise QB's don't grow on trees.
There is the bottom line.

[Postmaster]

Should Steelers trade Roethlisberger?
By Bob Smizik | Wednesday, 1 a.m.

As recently as mid-day yesterday, I held the strong opinion that the Steelers would be recklessly vindictive if they traded Ben Roethlisberger. The team had waited more than 20 years for a franchise-type quarterback like Roethlisberger and look at the results: Two Super Bowls in five seasons.

Besides, although it wouldn’t be easy, Roethlisberger could be rehabilitated from the behavior that has made him be viewed with much disgust by most Steelers fans. His most recent near-collision with trouble was bound to knock some sense into what appears to be a very thick skull.

My thinking was the team should go forward with Ben. Even if his image was badly tarnished, images can be repaired. Great quarterback cannot be easily replaced.

But is that what the Steelers are thinking? Have the Steelers begun the process of trading Ben by deliberately distancing themselves from him?

Much was made about how Roethlisberger stood alone Monday to make his rather lame announcement of gratitude for charges not being filed against him and to promise a better Ben in the future. It was a stark contrast to last year when Coach Mike Tomlin and director of football Ben Roethlisbergeroperations Kevin Colbert were in attendance when Roethlisberger denied another charge of sexual misconduct.

Something else was different from last year. In 2009, Roethlisberger spoke in the team‘s media room in front of the logo of its corporate sponsor, PNC. This year, the statement was moved from the locker room and the logo was nowhere in sight.

You think PNC, a major player in everything in Pittsburgh, wants to be seen in the same room with a man as unpopular as Roethlisberger? Not a chance. And neither do Tomlin and Colbert.

This would have been a good time for owner Art Rooney to address the Steeler Nation and to apologize to them and let them know that even if Roethlisberger was painted as some sort of predator by Georgia District Attorney Fred Bright, the Steelers were behind him. Roethlisberger would be rehabilitated and the Steeler Way would flourish once again.

Trouble is the Steeler Way and Roethlisberger just don’t go together any more. And maybe they shouldn’t.

Maybe it’s time for the Steelers to regain their footing, to become the franchise Dan Rooney wants it to be and become the moral flagship of the NFL that it once was.

It’s time to put some legitimacy back into the phrase -- the Steelers way, and for people not to laugh when those two words are spoken.

The Steelers can strike a blow for what’s right in football. That can show the world that when it comes to them -- after a recent pitiful run of abysmal behavior -- character matters, and it can matter more than talent.

The Steelers need to reclaim their special brand. The best way to do that is to trade Roethlisberger.

The plusses of such a move are these:

* The Steelers get several high draft choices, at least one No. 1, and turn those into multiple high draft choices to help rebuild the team.

* The team gets out from under about $65 million it owes Roethlisberger.

* The Steelers do not draft a quarterback with their high draft choices but make Dennis Dixon the starter and they again become a running team.

* The currently disillusioned Steeler Nation rallies around the team for doing it the right way.

Sure, there are drawbacks.

Without Roethlisberger, the Steelers are a lesser team. That’s beyond dispute. But they won’t be a bad team. The multiple draft choices will help the team come back.

And if the comeback isn’t immediate, is there a team in pro sports better equipped to handle lean times in terms of season-ticket holders and a loyal fan base? The Steelers survived from 1979 to 2005 without a Super Bowl -- and with some mediocre teams. They can survive the trading of Roethlisberger.

Do I think it will happen? No.

But it might be the right thing to do.

[Crow]

Did Dennis Dixon's agent write that article?

[Langlier]

i'm not saying... i'm just sayin

[BigTron]

Santonio got in alot more legal trouble than Big Ben did. He got arrested for weed, suspended , had like a few charges that werent dropped. I agree Ben is fucking up but arent you innocent until proven guilty? All his charges were cleared correct? It seems like Holmes was a.) Proven guilty b.) a WR whose contract was ending. Big Ben is a.) Innocnet under our laws and B.) A franchise QB... dont get me worng they both sound like terds to me. But one got caught red handed the other used the system and had the charges dropped

Ive heard alot of people pulling the race card on this one. I think it has more to do with position and proof of guilt personally. If the steelers brass were racist they would have like 0 superbowls haha

[jatfly]

Santonio got in alot more legal trouble than Big Ben did. He got arrested for weed, suspended , had like a few charges that werent dropped. I agree Ben is fucking up but arent you innocent until proven guilty? All his charges were cleared correct? It seems like Holmes was a.) Proven guilty b.) a WR whose contract was ending. Big Ben is a.) Innocnet under our laws and B.) A franchise QB... dont get me worng they both sound like terds to me. But one got caught red handed the other used the system and had the charges dropped

Ive heard alot of people pulling the race card on this one. I think it has more to do with position and proof of guilt personally. If the steelers brass were racist they would have like 0 superbowls haha

Yeah but don't think for a min that this isn't a message sent to Ben and a few others there, The Rooneys don't like this shit. They want Hard working classy guys,,,,not guys that should be on our team....Ben is on Notice and I am betting this will be the last time he has a issue...

[Crow]

Ive heard alot of people pulling the race card on this one. I think it has more to do with position and proof of guilt personally. If the steelers brass were racist they would have like 0 superbowls haha

Some people can't wait to play that card. Weak as hell.

[CrossBones]

Speculation is that Ben is gonna get suspended one way or the other. Should happen soon I'm guessing. Maybe 1-4 games.

[Postmaster]

Dan Rooney says "no comment" on whether Steelers support Roethlisberger
Posted by Mike Florio on April 14, 2010 11:29 PM ET

With multiple media figures in Pittsburgh discussing and/or calling for the team to trade quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, the team has been conspicuously quiet.

The silence became even more conspicuous on Wednesday night, when Rooney commented on the situation at a press conference prior to receiving the Citizen of the Year Award from the Pennsylvania AFL-CIO at a dinner in Pittsburgh.

According to the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, Rooney acknowledged that it is a "serious matter," and that he believes the situation is being "handled properly" by team president Art Rooney (Dan's son), coach Mike Tomlin, and director of football operations Kevin Colbert.

Here's the kicker -- asked whether the Steelers organization supports Roethlisberger, Rooney said, "I'm not making any comment on that."

That's perhaps the most ominous comment we've seen regarding Roethlisberger's status. If Rooney isn't willing to state express support for a two-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback, it means that the organization quite possibly is in the process of moving on. So even if the Steelers haven't initiated trade talks, the Bills, Jaguars, Broncos, Raiders, Panthers, Cardinals, Seahawks, Rams, and 49ers should be burning up the phone lines to the 412 area code.

Meanwhile, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell, who attended the event, said that he will make a decision in the near future regarding Roethlisberger, according to the Associated Press.

"I think he understands how important the Personal Conduct Policy is to the NFL," Goodell told the AP. "And I hope he has a better understanding of how important it is for everybody in the league."

As to the specific status of the situation, Goodell said, "We'll continue to gather more information. We'll continue to have that analysis done, and we'll consider it and make a decision in the near future. We like to be thorough. We like to be sure we fully understand it. We've talked to, obviously, the player. We'll talk to the [NFLPA]. I think anytime you can get more input into the various factors that are going on, the better decision you'll make."

Even though Roethlisberger was cleared of any potential criminal charges on Monday, the momentum against him seems to be building. A suspension now seems to be a given. Though something dramatic, like a trade, remains unlikely, it's a possibility that still needs to be considered.

[Crow]

Ouch.

[Postmaster]

MrMichael_SmithYeah, you'd b right 2 read n2 Dan Rooney's "no comment" re: Roethlisberger. I believe Steelers would listen to trade offers. It's that bad.

[Postmaster]

MrMichael_Smithrepeat: WOULD. Rooneys r angry. Told calls/emails/letters team is getting r overwhelmingly anti-Ben. And the Steelers listen to their fans.

[Postmaster]

YahooSportsNFLRoethlisberger's job w/ Steelers could B at tipping point. Source says onslaught of fan discontent over Ben has shaken Pittsburgh ownership.

[doug7dust]

Ok al go get him

[hawaiianboy]

Ownership that hears and cares what it's fan base wants?... Wut a concept...


Ben totally ruined Nancy Gulbis for me, but I'd throw welcome that dumb sumbitch here with open arms...

[Postmaster]

Big Ben and the Cable Guy - god's gift to women.

[RaiderRobert]

Watch Al do something stupid like offer 2 1st rounders or something for him...

[hawaiianboy]

Watch Al do something stupid like offer 2 1st rounders or something for him...


If Jay Cutler was worth two firsts, a third and Kyle Orton, you have to figure Ben's going to cost some unless the Steelers are putting him in the mark down bin ala Santonio... I'd call the Rooneys now while they are good and pissed off and maybe wanting to cut bait an clear the books as soon as possible....


I figure our first and third this year, our 2nd next year and maybe a Gradkowski or something like that... Considering we haven't had a young Pro Bowl level QB in decades, it's well worth it IMO...

[DonkeyKilla]

And the Steelers listen to their fans. -- sure wish Raiders would...

suspending Ben is a real slippery slope. Now anyone who is accused of something outside of football can be suspended? I'm not buying it and I find it hard to believe it could stand up to any kind of legal challenge.

[Crow]

If Jay Cutler was worth two firsts, a third and Kyle Orton, you have to figure Ben's going to cost some unless the Steelers are putting him in the mark down bin ala Santonio... I'd call the Rooneys now while they are good and pissed off and maybe wanting to cut bait an clear the books as soon as possible....


I figure our first and third this year, our 2nd next year and maybe a Gradkowski or something like that... Considering we haven't had a young Pro Bowl level QB in decades, it's well worth it IMO...

"So, Dan...what do you guys think of this kid Jimmy Clausen?"

[Postmaster]

Adam_SchefterSteelers President Art Rooney, II will address the media and the Ben Roethlisberger matter at 2:30 p.m. today at Steelers headquarters.

[doug7dust]

i think al could get him with the 8th pick overall, and i make that trade. would kjeep us from blowing the pick on bruce campbell. if al really wants campbell, he will be there in round 2 and may even fall to 3

[Madturk]

If Al was genuinely interested in bringing in a vet QB, he would have already signed D McNab.

[Langlier]

If Al was genuinely interested in bringing in a vet QB, he would have already signed D McNab.

we cant force a team to trade with us turk

that said i hear a call will be made today or tomorrow reguarding roth/his availability/his cost.

[Sleet]

If Al was genuinely interested in bringing in a vet QB, he would have already signed D McNab.

Big difference. Ben's younger, under contract, plays well behind bad OLs, and has 2 SB rings. Dump JR. Offer this year's 1st and 4th, next years 2nd and 4th. Throw in Grad. Let Frye or Losman start Weeks 1 and 2.

[Madturk]

Sorry to be a buzzkill but I don't see it happening.

[Langlier]

Sorry to be a buzzkill but I don't see it happening.

i don't give it a big percent chance - but to say its out of the question is another matter entirely.

I'd say less then a 10% chance at this point.

[Postmaster]

Big Ben available? Raiders should jump
April, 15, 2010

By Bill Williamson

Now, this is a quarterback Oakland should look into.

NFL.com is reporting that the Pittsburgh Steelers are fed up with Ben Roethlisberger’s off-field life and they are willing to listen to offers. The report said the Steelers have not talked to any teams yet, but have had internal discussions about it.

At age 28, Ben Roethlisberger is very much in his prime.
If the Steelers truly want to trade Roethlisberger, this is a sweepstakes that is worth the Raiders’ time.

The Raiders were interested in Donovan McNabb and have reportedly shown interest in Jason Campbell and Sage Rosenfels. They’ve been linked to Jimmy Clausen and Tim Tebow in the draft. All of these options have flaws for Oakland, which is clearly not totally content with their current quarterback crew consisting of JaMarcus Russell, Bruce Gradkowski and Charlie Frye.

While most of the above options would be risky and not solve long-term issues, the Roethlisberger addition would be a perfect solution to Oakland. He’d help both in the short and long term. Roethlisberger is 28 and he has a good 7-8 years remaining in his career. He’s in his prime.

With Roethlisberger behind center, the Raiders’ streak of seven straight years with 11 or more losses would become a memory right away.

He’d make Oakland’s young receivers better and the running game would be better because of his presence. The guy is crafty and he knows how to lead an offense. Say what you want about Roethlisberger, but the guy is a winner. He is an elite quarterback.

If he is available, the Raiders have to take advantage of this unusual opportunity. Instead of floundering along at the position and looking at lackluster ways of improving, the Raiders should try to grab Roethlisberger if the Steelers are serious about listening to offers.

ESPN.com reported that Oakland would be open to making superstar cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha available in a McNabb package. I didn’t like that idea. In this deal, it could be worth thinking about. I love Asomugha’s ability, but if dealing him brought a top-flight quarterback in return, Oakland would have to think about it.

Yes, Roethlisberger has to be considered a risk because of his recent history. But it’s worth the risk because of his ability and being traded could be a wake-up call. If the Raiders really want a new quarterback, and if Roethlisberger is really available, this is the player the Raiders need to pursue.

[SoCalRaider]

If Al was genuinely interested in bringing in a vet QB, he would have already signed D McNab.
Maybe.... but if Al really had no interest in bringing in McNabb.... wouldn't he have had his mouthpiece get up and make a statement denying any interest in McNabb when every media outlet was linking McNabb to the Raiders?

I still don't see the Rooney's letting this guy go.... It's the offseason and shit like this is getting blown way out of proportion... I think once the season gets started.... this is going to fade away.....

[DarthRaidor]

i don't give it a big percent chance - but to say its out of the question is another matter entirely.

I'd say less then a 10% chance at this point.

Lang, if the percentage chance of this happening is less than 10%, it pretty much is outta the question.

[Postmaster]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/15/witness-statements-make-bad-situation-worse-for-roethlisberger/

"Ben asked us to go to his 'VIP' area. . . . We all went with him. He said there were shots for us, numerous shots were on the bar, and he told us to take him. His bodyguard came and took my arm and said come with me, he escorted me into a side door/hallway, and sat me on a stool. He left and Ben came back with his penis out of his pants. I told him it wasn't OK, no, we don't need to do this and I proceeded to get up and try to leave. I went to the first door I saw, which happened to be a bathroom. He followed me into the bathroom and shut the door behind him. I still said no, this is not OK, and he then had sex with me. He said it was OK. He then left without saying anything. I went out of the hallway/door to the side where I saw my friends. We left [the club] and went to the first police car we saw."

Sweet move.

[Madturk]

I still don't see the Rooney's letting this guy go.... It's the offseason and shit like this is getting blown way out of proportion... I think once the season gets started.... this is going to fade away.....

Probably not without a contingency plan in effect, but Bradshaw was interviewed on NFLN and he said that he knows the Rooney's intimately, and it wouldn't be out of the question that the Rooney's could get rid of him.

[poptart]

came back with his penis out of his pants.

I pictured X, as he logs onto the board.

[Langlier]

Lang, if the percentage chance of this happening is less than 10%, it pretty much is outta the question.

no out of the question is less then 1

right now it's 10 and rising.

If Pitt is really willing to unload him at a reasonable cost (say 8 overall and a pick next year or a player/pick combination) then suddenly that percentage jumps a lot. When I first made this thread the chance was somewhere near less then 1%

[hawaiianboy]

If they really like Dennis Dixon as much as they have been claiming, and if they really want to get back to the run first, play hard defense Steeler ball as they have been claiming, the odds probably go up some as far as the Rooney's cutting bait:

1) Public opinion supports the move
2) It sets a hell of a tone for the future as far as no one player being bigger than the organization
3) They get out from under the rest of Ben's contract
4) They could really hit the O-line hard with draft picks


I actually believe Richard Seymour to be an attractive part of a trade for the Steelers provided his contract demands are reasonable... He's a "Steeler" grinder type player and he'd be a perfect replacement for Aaron Smith at that key RE spot in the 34...

[TheNextStep]

I would not be pissed about trading for Ben. Yes, the guy is clearly a douchebag... but it isn't like we haven't seen plenty of those. And if we're going to have douchebags on the team, we might as well have one who wins.

[Langlier]

If they really like Dennis Dixon as much as they have been claiming, and if they really want to get back to the run first, play hard defense Steeler ball as they have been claiming, the odds probably go up some as far as the Rooney's cutting bait:

1) Public opinion supports the move
2) It sets a hell of a tone for the future as far as no one player being bigger than the organization
3) They get out from under the rest of Ben's contract
4) They could really hit the O-line hard with draft picks


I actually believe Richard Seymour to be an attractive part of a trade for the Steelers provided his contract demands are reasonable... He's a "Steeler" grinder type player and he'd be a perfect replacement for Aaron Smith at that key RE spot in the 34...

stop reading my KFFL posts :P

[DarthRaidor]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/15/witness-statements-make-bad-situation-worse-for-roethlisberger/



Sweet move.

I've heard worse than this about Fatback.

[Madturk]

If they really like Dennis Dixon as much as they have been claiming, and if they really want to get back to the run first, play hard defense Steeler ball as they have been claiming, the odds probably go up some as far as the Rooney's cutting bait:

1) Public opinion supports the move
2) It sets a hell of a tone for the future as far as no one player being bigger than the organization
3) They get out from under the rest of Ben's contract
4) They could really hit the O-line hard with draft picks


I actually believe Richard Seymour to be an attractive part of a trade for the Steelers provided his contract demands are reasonable... He's a "Steeler" grinder type player and he'd be a perfect replacement for Aaron Smith at that key RE spot in the 34...


I'd rather dangle Aso as trade bait. We're still thin at DT and trading Sey will leave a gaping hole on the DL.

[TheNextStep]

And trading Aso would make Chris Johnson our #1 corner.

[Madturk]

And trading Aso would make Chris Johnson our #1 corner.

I'm assuming we're drafting a corner like Haden then dumbass:p Losing Aso will be negligible if we get the front 7 in order.

[Postmaster]

If Ben is looking at a 8 game suspension he could be had for a song. This guy is going to be radioactive once "Penisgate" hits the mainstream.

What until all the victim advocacy and women rights groups get wind of this scumbag's pickup tactics.

[hawaiianboy]

stop reading my KFFL posts :P

Don't even go there anymore, but it sounds like you finally said something intelligent :p


I'd rather dangle Aso as trade bait. We're still thin at DT and trading Sey will leave a gaping hole on the DL.

And trading Aso would make Chris Johnson our #1 corner.


Gotta give up something to get something...

[TheNextStep]

I think the fact is that we're thin pretty much everywhere.

Quarterback - as HB noted, we've a roster chock full of 3rd options.
Running back - great on paper, but it isn't showing up consistently in the final stats.
Offensive Line - If they were a rock band, they'd barely break Billboard's top 100 as "Robert Gallery and the stiffs."
Tight End - "Zach Miller and those other guys" can open for them on tour.
Defensive Line - Seymour. And that's it, really.
Linebackers - The fact that we're so willing to part with Morrison and Howard and start over from scratch is a pretty damning indictment.
Secondary - Nnamdi Asomugha is awesome. And those other guys wouldn't start for any other team in the league. Chris Johnson has had his moments, I concede.

Honestly, I would rather just trade picks as Asomugha and Seymour are probably my two favorite players on the team right now.

[TheNextStep]

Gotta give up something to get something...

The next time I'm going to buy a girl dinner, you call her beforehand and expound on this theory for me, wingman.

[Postmaster]

Pittsburgh Steelers
Steelers have internally discussed trading Roethlisberger
By Jason La Canfora | NFL.com

The Pittsburgh Steelers haven't talked with other teams about dealing embattled quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, but they've had significant internal discussions about the matter, a source with knowledge of the situation said Thursday.

According to the source, Steelers ownership remains dismayed and embarrassed by Roethlisberger's actions in a Georgia college town this offseason and finds his string of off-the-field incidents troubling. The team has been closely monitoring the public backlash against Roethlisberger.

"The Rooneys are livid," the source said.

A Georgia district attorney decided not to hand down sexual-assault criminal charges against Roethlisberger on Monday, but the Steelers, as well as the NFL, could impose their own discipline on him.

Roethlisberger met with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell on Tuesday. Goodell said Wednesday that he would make a decision on Roethlisberger's status "in the near future."

The Steelers' front office has talked internally about possible trade scenarios that could be feasible and what makes sense for the team. According to a source, if other teams called about Roethlisberger, the Steelers would intently listen.

The Steelers could envision several trade scenarios, but they're skeptical about other teams taking on Roethlisberger, given his baggage. However, they also realize his contract is tradeable in an uncapped year, with the bonuses already paid and Roethlisberger signed for six more years at a manageable salary for a franchise quarterback ($8.05 million in 2010, $11.6 million per year from 2011 to 2014, and $12.1 million in 2015).

In particular, the Steelers are enamored with likely No. 1 overall draft pick Sam Bradford. They essentially view Bradford as a sure-thing franchise quarterback and have considered what it would take to move up to the No. 1 pick in a trade with the St. Louis Rams, according to a source. However, the Steelers know executing such a move would be highly difficult, and they figure the Rams have limited interest in Roethlisberger.

Steelers officials aren't worried about how Roethlisberger's return will impact the locker room. The Rooneys' concern is born of the history and prestige of their franchise, the recent fan backlash and public perception about Roethlisberger and their belief that no player is bigger than the team.

However, the source noted that this isn't "a Santonio Holmes situation," alluding to the Steelers dumping the talented but troubled receiver for a fifth-round pick over the weekend as he faced a four-game suspension for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.

"This is not a case of having to get rid of this guy,'" the source said. "There would have to be fair value."

Roethlisberger, drafted 11th overall in 2004, has performed at an elite level for the Steelers. He's among the winningest quarterbacks for his age and already possesses two Super Bowl rings. His size, improvisational skills and ability to escape the rush and deliver the ball to all parts of the field make him among the best in the league.

Should Roethlisberger have another off-the-field misstep, however, his Steelers career likely would be over, according to team and league sources. And, if a legitimate trade scenario materialized, that end could come much sooner.

Teams that aren't committed long-term to a starting quarterback include the Rams, Buffalo Bills, Cleveland Browns, Oakland Raiders, San Francisco 49ers, Denver Broncos, Carolina Panthers, Seattle Seahawks and Arizona Cardinals.

The Steelers refused to entertain dealing Holmes within the AFC North, and that would apply with Roethlisberger as well. A trade likely would have to involve a quarterback or put the Steelers in position to draft one they like (Pittsburgh is high on its young backup, Dennis Dixon, however).

Finding the right deal is remote, the Steelers know, but not necessarily impossible.

[Postmaster]

ProFootballTalkRaiders quarterback Bruce Gradkowski tore a pectoral muscle lifting weights on Wednesday. Story coming at PFT.

Kyle Boller makes since now.

We are screwed.

[SoCalRaider]

Probably not without a contingency plan in effect, but Bradshaw was interviewed on NFLN and he said that he knows the Rooney's intimately, and it wouldn't be out of the question that the Rooney's could get rid of him.
Yup.... I think it's safe to say the Rooney's are mulling it over, especially in the event Ben does something idiotic between now and training camp.... but with McNabb out of the picture, there really isn't a win-win scenario that I can envision.... I think it comes down to the lesser of 2 evils thing.... Since I don't live in Pitt... I really have no pulse on how bad the fan reaction is over this... but my guess is the fan reaction will be a lot worse if they dump Ben and suddenly go 5-11.....

[Postmaster]

Adam_SchefterRT @cjacobson1979: Still think Big Ben won't get traded? ... I've gone from 100 percent sure he won't be to 98 percent sure.

[Crow]

The next time I'm going to buy a girl dinner, you call her beforehand and expound on this theory for me, wingman.

Sounds like you went to dinner with the one chick in america who doesn't realize ordering the lobster is code for "You're getting lucky tonight."

Ain't that a bitch?

Move down here. College chicks will climb all over you for some Taco Bell.

[Postmaster]

GBI documents contain evidence of another Roethlisberger allegation
Posted by Mike Florio on April 16, 2010 9:03 AM ET

The 572 pages of documents released on Thursday by the Georgia Bureau of Investigation likely contain plenty of useless and irrelevant stuff. But, apparently, the materials contain some interesting information that could make things even more difficult for Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

Buried in an item in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution regarding the newly-available materials appears reference to an "unsubstantiated allegation" that a "drunken Roethlisberger" made an "unwanted advance" at another Milledgeville-area woman on an unspecified date during a party at Roethlisberger's house in the area.

Per the GBI information, Roethlisberger allegedly pulled down his pants and told the woman she could "do whatever she wants." A week later, he allegedly forced his hand up the same woman's skirt.

The woman was able to get away, and her father advised her not to file a formal criminal complaint.

If this stuff keeps coming out, Ben is going to get the Pacman treatment.

[TheMadStork]

If this stuff keeps coming out, Ben is going to get the Pacman treatment.

Goodell would be doing the dumbass a favor if he dropped a hammer on the dumbass now, before there's some jail time involved. Roethlisberger needs to sit down and think really hard about what kind of person he is and how he wants people to look at him. Maybe his big head has a few more brain cells than his little head and he'll listen to the big one.

[poptart]

Roethlisberger allegedly pulled down his pants and told the woman she could "do whatever she wants."

I take it she wasn't carrying a scissors?

[TheMadStork]

I take it she wasn't carrying a scissors?

Ouch.

[Postmaster]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Diner-morning-news-Is-Big-Ben-on-the-market.html

So what is Big Ben worth in the open market? Clearly, this would be a short sale since any team wanting to take on Roethlisberger and his problems would not be willing to pay the “Cutler” rate (roughly two No. 1s) for a two-time Super Bowl-winning quarterback. Would the Steelers take the recent Donovan McNabb/Redskins deal for Roethlisberger? I doubt it; the Steelers are angry, but they’re not stupid. Roethlisberger is hard to trade right now, but that doesn’t mean the Steelers shouldn’t listen to any offers. Would the Bills call and offer the ninth pick overall? Would the Raiders offer eight? It seems to me that if a team in need a quarterback wants to deal with Big Ben’s problems, it should put an offer on the table just enticing enough to gauge the Steelers’ level of interest. Based on Mr. Rooney’s body language, I wouldn’t rule out a trade. My sense is that some teams will be calling.

[massraider]

I wonder how many teams would actually call.

You know who should call? The Vikings.

[Postmaster]

A guy over at the K is saying a deal is in place for Big Ben. Multiple draft picks and a player.

*Take with grain of salt*

[Madturk]

Sounds like a bogus rumor and it was supposedly with us

[doug7dust]

A guy over at the K is saying a deal is in place for Big Ben. Multiple draft picks and a player.

*Take with grain of salt*

more info please? the K?

[CrossBones]

Forget it.

Just a typical INTERNET RUMOR.

[Sleet]

I'm torn on this one. McDonald made a good point about Ben's character (or lack thereof), but, at the same time, I have not heard of any problems related to that on the field. The guy had led a team behind a suspect OL to a SB victory. Find a starting RG in the 2nd round and a veteran WR to work with DHB, Schilens, Murphy and Higgins, and a two-down DT and MLB somewhere in the draft (with whatever picks remain), we'd be vastly improved.

[hawaiianboy]

Sounds like a bogus rumor and it was supposedly with us

Forget it.

Just a typical INTERNET RUMOR.


You two jackholes wanna call my kids and tell them there is no Santy Claus while you're at it?

[Langlier]

called my guy - only said the call has been made. no real other info. so its not impossible... but its certainly not done.

[CrossBones]

You two jackholes wanna call my kids and tell them there is no Santy Claus while you're at it?

Not sure how to break this to you but the kids already know.

[DarthRaidor]

The only solace if there is any from all this, is that it's now obvious that Al finally sees what we all have been saying about Fatback and wants to close the book on him once and for all.

[East Bay Grease]

He'd have to ride through a Pittsburgh church without a helmet waving the severed heads of 3 hookers.
Hey, easy on poor Ben!

I bet you anything those dead hookers were dressed provocatively--clearly they were asking for it.

[SoCalRaider]

Not sure how to break this to you but the kids already know.

Bro.... they live on an island.... you'd be surprised....

[Postmaster]

Sources: Big Ben suspension coming by Tuesday
Jason Cole

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is expected to suspend Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger(notes) on Monday or Tuesday as a result of the recent sexual assault investigation in Milledgeville, Ga., multiple sources have indicated to Yahoo! Sports.

Though the Ocmulgee Circuit District Attorney announced last Monday that Roethlisberger wouldn’t be charged in the case, sources close to the quarterback said he is unlikely to fight the punishment.

Roethlisberger, who apologized following last week’s announcement for the negative attention the incident garnered, would prefer to put the matter to rest as quickly as possible, three sources close to him said.

“Ben understands where this is going and he knows there’s punishment he’ll have to take,” one of the aforementioned sources close to Roethlisberger said. “He knows how much this hurt the team and the league. He wants to make this right.”

While NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said he has been given no timetable for a decision, the question remains whether Goodell will keep the suspension to one or two games or make it four games or longer. It is also unknown whether the Steelers will levy an additional penalty upon Roethlisberger or if a punishment will be factored into the league’s suspension. Over the weekend, two league sources said Goodell was growing angrier by the day as more information from the investigation became public.

The investigation has included statements from witnesses in the case that a bodyguard in Roethlisberger’s entourage blocked other people from going to find Roethlisberger and the woman in a bathroom in the bar where the incident took place.

While the investigation details damaging evidence against the accuser as well and includes a statement by the woman that she didn’t want to press charges against Roethlisberger, it is clear that Roethlisberger is losing in the court of public opinion.

“After you read the file and you listen to the player, the only conclusion you can come to is that what he did is unbelievably stupid,” one of the league sources said. “How could he have really thought this was a good idea?”

This is the second straight offseason in which Roethlisberger has faced sexual misconduct allegations. A Nevada casino worker last July accused Roethlisberger of raping her in 2008. No criminal charges were filed in that case and the civil suit, which includes counter damages, is still ongoing.

The aftermath of the Roethlisberger investigation stands to dampen an eventful week for the NFL. The league will announce the 2010 NFL schedule on Tuesday and the 75th draft begins in prime time on Thursday.

[Postmaster]

As for Roethlisberger, he's lucky the Steelers have a different morality standard for their star quarterback than for their Super Bowl MVP receiver. They could have traded Roethlisberger to Oakland, and if you think I'm kidding, you don't know Al Davis. But as angry as they obviously are with him, they're going to back him, assuming he turns his life around.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/04/18/mmqb/index.html#ixzz0lVjoL9Zq
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[massraider]

I don't want to get too into this thing, but leaving aside the nature of what Ben is accused of, I have a serious problem with a guy getting suspended by the league without any sort of charges being pressed. Actually, without any sort of conviction, come to think of it.

This, to me, is the definition of a slippery slope. We can assume all the bad things we want about Ben, and I am ready to believe them. I also think it's possible that he has never raped anyone, or even sexually assaulted them. That girl in Reno had the credibility rug pulled out from under her about 15 minutes after the story broke. I mean, that story went away real quick. The mob extinguished their torches and went away.

I think it is just possible that Ben is just an asshole. And maybe women that get with him don't like the experience. But proof of any of the more serious stuff, or even a municipality willing to press chargers, doesn't exist.

So what is the NFL suspending him for? Bad press? The accusation? Can you imagine a scenario where a woman threatens to accuse a pro athlete of sexual assault, unless he coughs up some money? I sure can. Ever spent any time in the presence of these guys? The opportunity and quality of that opportunity is hard to comprehend. I saw a line of 6 women literally waiting to offer themselves to Derek Jeter. And that was in fucking Boston (:mad:). They are targets for a lot of women, a lot of whom are not looking for love.

And you factor in (which everyone forgets) how young these guys are. Seriously, imagine how you might behave when you are 25, have unlimited tail, and unlimited funds. How easy would it be to be put in a bad situation? We've all met the psycho girl that seemed so normal.

This isn't to defend Ben. I am not. I think he's a meathead douchebag, and I don't want to have to root for him, so I don't even want him for a 2nd round pick. But essentially fining someone millions of dollars because of an accusation is very dangerous to me. It is taking away rights from the players. Where is the union in all of this?

[007]

Not me.

He represents the Steelers, the NFL and any sports star making 100 million bucks.

Conviction or not, there is enough information out there to give this guy 4 games for not conducting himself properly under Goodell's ambigous policy.

If I were Ben, I would take a year off of the sport and go get my personal life in order. Drinking a ton, partying all the time and having 3 rape accusations in roughly one year? Sometimes its not about football. His dad should be talking to him about being a man and getting his life in order.

[DonkeyKilla]

The only solace if there is any from all this, is that it's now obvious that Al finally sees what we all have been saying about Fatback and wants to close the book on him once and for all.

i pray this is true but ya never know- nothing would surprise me. Well except making some logical and sound choices...

[RaiderRobert]

Not me.

He represents the Steelers, the NFL and any sports star making 100 million bucks.

Conviction or not, there is enough information out there to give this guy 4 games for not conducting himself properly under Goodell's ambigous policy.

If I were Ben, I would take a year off of the sport and go get my personal life in order. Drinking a ton, partying all the time and having 3 rape accusations in roughly one year? Sometimes its not about football. His dad should be talking to him about being a man and getting his life in order.

Couldn't have said it any better. Rep+

The absence of charges actually being filed is NOT the result of innocence. I would bet everything I own that we have not seen the last of Big Ben and his "sexual misconduct" (rapist)...

[CrossBones]

I don't want to get too into this thing...Yes you do. :D

I agree with you mass.

Ben is a dumbass no doubt, uses horrible judgement, and just puts himself is terrible situations but at this point in the words of the infamous Dr. Henry Lee, ``something long (sic)" with the girls story. Let's leave it at that.

I'd take Cheeseburger on my team in a New York minute. Period.

[Raidermania12]

Couldn't have said it any better. Rep+

The absence of charges actually being filed is NOT the result of innocence.

It's not guilty either, WTF? :confused: So he's guiilty until proven innocent? You can take that bs to Italy if you arent feeling the American set up.

This is court of public opinion, worthless as ever and always working with less real details than everyone else(though it doesnt stop it from judging with 4 times as much conviction).

[poptart]

Good post, mass.

Ben is almost certainly guilty of being a pretty big creep.

Doesn't necessarily make him guilty of a CRIME.


No conviction, no charges, ... suspended.

Doesn't really add up, imo.


That said, the guy would be well advised to live like a hermit for a while.


Just jack it off at home, dumbshit. :p

[Sleet]

Ben won't challenge the suspension, the Rooney's won't trade him, and he'll count himself lucky. No problem with the punishment w/o a proven crime.

No reason why Goodell should let Ben turn into Pacman meet Tiger.

[Madturk]

I see it as a pre-emptive strike by Goodell, kind of a "watch your ass son". I don't necessarily agree with it when no convictions have been handed down, but there's probably enough smoke here to warrant some kind of disciplinary action.

Jason Campbell come on down!

[BigPoppaPump]

I said this on the K earlier....It is multiple off seasons in a row where Ben has done something stupid and made headlines. Where there is smoke, there is fire. Dude is one of the most famous people in the NFL and his actions are hurting the game and league. He deserves a suspension because he is fucking up.

The guy is out of control and the NFL is trying to send a message to Ben to prevent the next headline he might make off the field.

[RaiderNationUK]

We'll have to move Gump before we can really entertain bringing Ben in IMHO. Lets be honest here, with a surname name like that how long do you seriously think he'll last here before Gump covers him in hot sauce and eats him?

[R8RSFAN]

Ben won't challenge the suspension, the Rooney's won't trade him, and he'll count himself lucky. No problem with the punishment w/o a proven crime.

No reason why Goodell should let Ben turn into Pacman meet Tiger.

I agree and will be shocked if Ben is moved. He's the face of that franchise and even though that face is bloodied and bruised by it's own doing, it's just too important to send away.

[RaiderRobert]

It's not guilty either, WTF? :confused: So he's guiilty until proven innocent? You can take that bs to Italy if you arent feeling the American set up.

This is court of public opinion, worthless as ever and always working with less real details than everyone else(though it doesnt stop it from judging with 4 times as much conviction).
I'm a little astonished at some of the people in here that are ok with Ben's actions. "No conviction, no problem" seems to be the prevailing opinion. That rather disgusts me. Rape is a very difficult thing to prove in a court of law. Add in to the difficulties the "hush money" that Ben pays, and he will get away with it over and over again. LIKE HE HAS DONE. This is 2 consecutive offseasons with rape accusations, and there are confirmed reports of others that never saw the light of day. Ben is a Repeat Sexual Predator. It's his game. Why do you think the off-duty cop that was with Ben (and held that girl's friends out of the bathroom while she was with Ben), resigned from his police department? Seriously.

Someone in here posted something to the effect of "poor guys, these athletes, you should see all these girls lining up to get with them and take advantage of them," something like that. I have hung out with celebrities, and if you have seen the girls lining up, then you need to come clean and state the other side to that equation in that these celebrities (not all, I know) break every law they can. The sense of entitlement and feeling of being above the law is rampant. Especially among professional sports players. That is why they have off duty cops with them. One flash of the badge, and "oh, it's ok, go ahead". I've seen it, over and over again.

Pacman was never convicted of anything either, yet he got a year suspension. If Ben gets anything less, I will be very seriously disappointed in Commissioner Goodell. Similarly to Pacman, Ben has repeatedly disregarded the League's Conduct Policy, and proved himself to be AT BEST, a menace to society. And were it not for his money and fame, I am pretty sure he would be behind bars on the receiving end of his repeat behavior.

So don't come at me with this "innocent until proven guilty", and "maybe I can take that bs to Italy if I'm not feeling this American set-up." Go fuck yourself, I served my country with pride. Semper Fidelis Mother Fucker. I am well aware of the rights and privileges and freedoms that most Americans take so much for granted. And I know how the law works. Including it's advantages and disadvantages when associated with the rich, celebrities, and most especially professional athletes.

If some of you guys can't see this, maybe you should go join his fucking posse and try to get in on the action. I can only hope it is your daughter, or sister, or friend Ben gets to walk away with a smile from next time...

[Sleet]

I'm a little astonished at some of the people in here that are ok with Ben's actions. "No conviction, no problem" seems to be the prevailing opinion. That rather disgusts me. Rape is a very difficult thing to prove in a court of law. Add in to the difficulties the "hush money" that Ben pays, and he will get away with it over and over again. LIKE HE HAS DONE. This is 2 consecutive offseasons with rape accusations, and there are confirmed reports of others that never saw the light of day. Ben is a Repeat Sexual Predator. It's his game. Why do you think the off-duty cop that was with Ben (and held that girl's friends out of the bathroom while she was with Ben), resigned from his police department? Seriously.

Someone in here posted something to the effect of "poor guys, these athletes, you should see all these girls lining up to get with them and take advantage of them," something like that. I have hung out with celebrities, and if you have seen the girls lining up, then you need to come clean and state the other side to that equation in that these celebrities (not all, I know) break every law they can. The sense of entitlement and feeling of being above the law is rampant. Especially among professional sports players. That is why they have off duty cops with them. One flash of the badge, and "oh, it's ok, go ahead". I've seen it, over and over again.

Pacman was never convicted of anything either, yet he got a year suspension. If Ben gets anything less, I will be very seriously disappointed in Commissioner Goodell. Similarly to Pacman, Ben has repeatedly disregarded the League's Conduct Policy, and proved himself to be AT BEST, a menace to society. And were it not for his money and fame, I am pretty sure he would be behind bars on the receiving end of his repeat behavior.

So don't come at me with this "innocent until proven guilty", and "maybe I can take that bs to Italy if I'm not feeling this American set-up." Go fuck yourself, I served my country with pride. Semper Fidelis Mother Fucker. I am well aware of the rights and privileges and freedoms that most Americans take so much for granted. And I know how the law works. Including it's advantages and disadvantages when associated with the rich, celebrities, and most especially professional athletes.

If some of you guys can't see this, maybe you should go join his fucking posse and try to get in on the action. I can only hope it is your daughter, or sister, or friend Ben gets to walk away with a smile from next time...

Rep. The DA went out of his way to disgrace Ben by disclosing the police reports and witness statements. Why? Was he grandstanding? Maybe. But my guess is that the DA believed Ben raped that girl, and other girls, and is trying to put a stop to it. Goodell got the message. It is just a question of how much Ben will have to pay, and will Ben admit to his problem. I wonder if one of Ben's problems now was not telling the whole story/truth to Goodell.

[Langlier]

I'm a little astonished at some of the people in here that are ok with Ben's actions. "No conviction, no problem" seems to be the prevailing opinion. That rather disgusts me. Rape is a very difficult thing to prove in a court of law. Add in to the difficulties the "hush money" that Ben pays, and he will get away with it over and over again. LIKE HE HAS DONE. This is 2 consecutive offseasons with rape accusations, and there are confirmed reports of others that never saw the light of day. Ben is a Repeat Sexual Predator. It's his game. Why do you think the off-duty cop that was with Ben (and held that girl's friends out of the bathroom while she was with Ben), resigned from his police department? Seriously.

Someone in here posted something to the effect of "poor guys, these athletes, you should see all these girls lining up to get with them and take advantage of them," something like that. I have hung out with celebrities, and if you have seen the girls lining up, then you need to come clean and state the other side to that equation in that these celebrities (not all, I know) break every law they can. The sense of entitlement and feeling of being above the law is rampant. Especially among professional sports players. That is why they have off duty cops with them. One flash of the badge, and "oh, it's ok, go ahead". I've seen it, over and over again.

Pacman was never convicted of anything either, yet he got a year suspension. If Ben gets anything less, I will be very seriously disappointed in Commissioner Goodell. Similarly to Pacman, Ben has repeatedly disregarded the League's Conduct Policy, and proved himself to be AT BEST, a menace to society. And were it not for his money and fame, I am pretty sure he would be behind bars on the receiving end of his repeat behavior.

So don't come at me with this "innocent until proven guilty", and "maybe I can take that bs to Italy if I'm not feeling this American set-up." Go fuck yourself, I served my country with pride. Semper Fidelis Mother Fucker. I am well aware of the rights and privileges and freedoms that most Americans take so much for granted. And I know how the law works. Including it's advantages and disadvantages when associated with the rich, celebrities, and most especially professional athletes.

If some of you guys can't see this, maybe you should go join his fucking posse and try to get in on the action. I can only hope it is your daughter, or sister, or friend Ben gets to walk away with a smile from next time...

I agree that rape is a very horrible crime. That said there is a significant difference between someone who has willingly had sex with a person previously, having a non-violent sexual encounter where they might have said no (which even they can't be sure of because both members were heavily under the influence).

I'll put it this way. If she still wanted to press charges - she would have. She has wanted to retract them since this has gone public.

I've gone back and forth on my feelings on this. In the end we haven't heard Ben's side of things (nor are we likely to). The "victim" in this put herself in a situation she was unable to control - her own bad choices had a lot to do with the outcome. Ben isn't free and clear with his bad decisions either but I don't see him in the same light I see someone who rapes someone against their will

[East Bay Grease]

We'll have to move Gump before we can really entertain bringing Ben in IMHO. Lets be honest here, with a surname name like that how long do you seriously think he'll last here before Gump covers him in hot sauce and eats him?

:pound:

[gannoncannon]

I'm a little astonished at some of the people in here that are ok with Ben's actions. "No conviction, no problem" seems to be the prevailing opinion. That rather disgusts me. Rape is a very difficult thing to prove in a court of law. Add in to the difficulties the "hush money" that Ben pays, and he will get away with it over and over again. LIKE HE HAS DONE. This is 2 consecutive offseasons with rape accusations, and there are confirmed reports of others that never saw the light of day. Ben is a Repeat Sexual Predator. It's his game. Why do you think the off-duty cop that was with Ben (and held that girl's friends out of the bathroom while she was with Ben), resigned from his police department? Seriously.

Someone in here posted something to the effect of "poor guys, these athletes, you should see all these girls lining up to get with them and take advantage of them," something like that. I have hung out with celebrities, and if you have seen the girls lining up, then you need to come clean and state the other side to that equation in that these celebrities (not all, I know) break every law they can. The sense of entitlement and feeling of being above the law is rampant. Especially among professional sports players. That is why they have off duty cops with them. One flash of the badge, and "oh, it's ok, go ahead". I've seen it, over and over again.

Pacman was never convicted of anything either, yet he got a year suspension. If Ben gets anything less, I will be very seriously disappointed in Commissioner Goodell. Similarly to Pacman, Ben has repeatedly disregarded the League's Conduct Policy, and proved himself to be AT BEST, a menace to society. And were it not for his money and fame, I am pretty sure he would be behind bars on the receiving end of his repeat behavior.

So don't come at me with this "innocent until proven guilty", and "maybe I can take that bs to Italy if I'm not feeling this American set-up." Go fuck yourself, I served my country with pride. Semper Fidelis Mother Fucker. I am well aware of the rights and privileges and freedoms that most Americans take so much for granted. And I know how the law works. Including it's advantages and disadvantages when associated with the rich, celebrities, and most especially professional athletes.

If some of you guys can't see this, maybe you should go join his fucking posse and try to get in on the action. I can only hope it is your daughter, or sister, or friend Ben gets to walk away with a smile from next time...

Nice post. While it's true that some women will take advantage of celebs/ pro athletes (like Ben) with money, I'd say that it's much more likely that guys with money/power will use those things to take advantage of women.

Ben may be innocent until proven guilty, but it seems like there is plenty of smoke indicating that Big Ben isn't exactly Mr. Clean. This isn't the first time he's managed to fuck up.

[gannoncannon]

I agree that rape is a very horrible crime. That said there is a significant difference between someone who has willingly had sex with a person previously, having a non-violent sexual encounter where they might have said no (which even they can't be sure of because both members were heavily under the influence).

I'll put it this way. If she still wanted to press charges - she would have. She has wanted to retract them since this has gone public.

I've gone back and forth on my feelings on this. In the end we haven't heard Ben's side of things (nor are we likely to). The "victim" in this put herself in a situation she was unable to control - her own bad choices had a lot to do with the outcome. Ben isn't free and clear with his bad decisions either but I don't see him in the same light I see someone who rapes someone against their will

It very well could have been a scenario in which Ben and the woman were drunk and flirting. Ben gets a little too horny and takes her into the hallway/bathroom. She tries to say "No" and Ben says "It's OK," and she's too drunk/too afraid to resist. Big Ben, after all, is a fucking big guy, and I'm sure being in that situation could be intimidating for someone.

Maybe the reason why the woman retracted the charges is because maybe she isn't even sure what happened; maybe she is second guessing herself and doesn't know if she was "raped" or "molested" or just let things go too far without speaking up. Who knows. Regardless, if what really happened was any of those scenarios, it still makes Ben a douchebag.

Also, why the hell are your off-duty cops preventing the woman's friends from going to see if everything is OK. Red flag, big time.

[RaiderRobert]

I agree that rape is a very horrible crime. That said there is a significant difference between someone who has willingly had sex with a person previously, having a non-violent sexual encounter where they might have said no (which even they can't be sure of because both members were heavily under the influence).

I'll put it this way. If she still wanted to press charges - she would have. She has wanted to retract them since this has gone public.

I've gone back and forth on my feelings on this. In the end we haven't heard Ben's side of things (nor are we likely to). The "victim" in this put herself in a situation she was unable to control - her own bad choices had a lot to do with the outcome. Ben isn't free and clear with his bad decisions either but I don't see him in the same light I see someone who rapes someone against their will

Yes, that girl made a bad choice. It happens all the time. Have you ever been drunk and made a bad decision that you regretted? Ever had someone twice your size delivering that bad decision to you and having no way to stop it? Or been so embarrassed and ashamed about it that you just hoped it could just go away?

Rape isn't about sex, it's about power. Most people don't understand that. If they did, maybe they would see this more clearly. I only hope since that DA knew he couldn't give Ben his due, (and kudos to him for his public comments and intent with that) that Goodell does what he can...

[massraider]

If some of you guys can't see this, maybe you should go join his fucking posse and try to get in on the action. I can only hope it is your daughter, or sister, or friend Ben gets to walk away with a smile from next time...

Very nice.

It's a good thing no one has ever been falsely accused of rape.

[Rupert]

Very nice.

It's a good thing no one has ever been falsely accused of rape.

Ever.

[RaiderRobert]

It very well could have been a scenario in which Ben and the woman were drunk and flirting. Ben gets a little too horny and takes her into the hallway/bathroom. She tries to say "No" and Ben says "It's OK," and she's too drunk/too afraid to resist. Big Ben, after all, is a fucking big guy, and I'm sure being in that situation could be intimidating for someone.

Maybe the reason why the woman retracted the charges is because maybe she isn't even sure what happened; maybe she is second guessing herself and doesn't know if she was "raped" or "molested" or just let things go too far without speaking up. Who knows. Regardless, if what really happened was any of those scenarios, it still makes Ben a douchebag.

Also, why the hell are your off-duty cops preventing the woman's friends from going to see if everything is OK. Red flag, big time.

VERY BIG TIME... Hence his resignation from the police department.

Here's another red flag. Public report shows the medical examiner confirmed "vaginal tearing" and bruising. I don't want to hear any jokes from you "big" guys out there, but "tearing" does not happen naturally with consensual sex, unless it is VERY spirited and intentionally rough...

[RaiderRobert]

Very nice.

It's a good thing no one has ever been falsely accused of rape.

Ever.

It's not like she made all that shit up.

Or was confused and mistakenly picked Ben out of a random police line up.

Or that Ben accidentally was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Or somehow Ben's fingerprints were there from some previous visit.

Or a mix up at he DNA lab.

Come on, get real...

[Sleet]

It's not like she made all that shit up.

Or was confused and mistakenly picked Ben out of a random police line up.

Or that Ben accidentally was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Or somehow Ben's fingerprints were there from some previous visit.

Or a mix up at he DNA lab.

Come on, get real...

Is "consent" really the issue for Goddell? I am not sure there is a swearing contest here. Is anybody denying that (a) they had sex, (b) Ben's bodyguards kept her friends from getting to her, (c) she was too drunk to "consent" or to provide a meaningful statement or testimony, and (d) this incident is one of apparently many others like it where this guy can't keep his dick in his pants?

Ben either raped her, or took advantage of a very drunk girl. Either way, it is pretty telling. Age 28, all the money in the world and access to the same type of women Tiger had access to, and he's at a college bar employing the help of body gaurds to take advantage of drunk women?

The guy's serial and has issues, and now at least a 4 game suspension (I guess).

[East Bay Grease]

The "victim" in this put herself in a situation she was unable to control - her own bad choices had a lot to do with the outcome. Ben isn't free and clear with his bad decisions either but I don't see him in the same light I see someone who rapes someone against their will
I'm not really addressing this to you in particular, Langlier, since a few others have said essentially the same thing, and you were stating it in a pretty sensitive context. But I've got a hypothetical question for you all...

Say a 30-year-old man goes to a college bar and finds an attractive woman (your friend, sister, or daughter, of course), slips a little something in one of the drinks he buys her, and drags her to his nice nearby apartment where no one will see, and after she says "it's not OK," fucks her anyway, without her conscious consent, telling her "yeah, it's OK," as she gives up and takes it, not putting up any physical resistance. He zips up, and charmingly, sends her out the door, to her waiting, wondering friends. She's upset about it, she remembers it, but not completely.

Is it "OK"? Of course not, it's rape.

Alright, now let's introduce some variations:
• If that guy is famous, does that make it OK?
• If that guy uses a not-so-nice bathroom instead of a nice nearby apartment, does that make it OK?
• If that guy makes her blow him instead of fuck him, (perhaps aware of avoiding DNA evidence), does that make it OK?
• If that guy has accomplices who do the dragging in and the sending out, does that make it OK?
• If that guy doesn't have to slip something in her drink himself, because he has the club essentially supplying him with a guarded backroom full of already falling-down drunk girls (and no men), does that make it OK?
• If this guy has this whole M.O. down to a system, with a whole procedure, and a whole team of accomplices, some of them off-duty cops...does that make it OK?
• If that guy has ALL of the above going for him, to the point where the girl in question feels she can't possibly succeed if she presses charges, does that make it OK?

You get my point.

It may not sound like the kind of rape we usually hear about. But that's because very few men are in a position to do it. And because it's hard to prosecute. But it sure sounds like rape to me.

And it's especially insidious. It's anything but a spontaneous, unpremeditated, boys-will-be-boys crime of passion. It's a cold-blooded, fucked-up, misogynist, power-tripping rich asshole's recreational sport.

And unless that asshole does the mother of all moral turn-arounds, I hope he's never a Raider, no matter how good a QB he is.

Maybe he's been able to escape the law, but I hope Goodell nails his ass good. Give him a choice: Community service at women's abuse center during a one-year suspension? Or a kick in the nuts every day from an NFL lineman?

:lowblow:
I mean, not that I have any strong feelings on the subject, or anything.

[RaiderRobert]

Very nice.

It's a good thing no one has ever been falsely accused of rape.

Ever.

In a scenario like this, with these public facts, and with the history he has? Nope. It's never happened. Never will.

[East Bay Grease]

Very nice.

It's a good thing no one has ever been falsely accused of rape.

Ever.
Really, Mass? Really, Rupe?

I'm all for due process, and I'm actually not saying the DA should have brought a case when he didn't have the evidence to convict.

But that's not Goodell's issue. He's the CEO, not the DA.

He's faced with the option of punishing bad conduct by one of his most prominent and highly compensated employees (an employee who was in the position to engage in the bad conduct precisely BECAUSE he was one of his most prominent and highly compensated employees), or to look the other way and essentially condone it.

Say you're CEO at a company, a company that produced some family-friendly product. And one of your most public representatives, say a long-time executive, or a spokesperson or something, does or says something so personally selfish, offensive, and reprehensible that it makes news, news that of course mentions your company every time it's written about.

Now it isn't illegal, mind you, it isn't going to land him in jail. Nor is it going to have any legal impact on the company, you're clean. It's just bad behavior.

Would you say "Well, he hasn't committed a crime, so we're not taking any action against him."?

Of course not, you'd renounce him, denounce him, and fire his ass so fast it'd make his head spin! The last thing you'd want is for the world think that this was the kind of guy your company was okay with, the kind of behavior your company tacitly endorsed in its figureheads.

"No sociopathic asshole's going to get away with this kind of behavior on my watch!" (or family-friendly words to that effect) you'd say, in a hastily-called press conference.

To which your relieved employees and constituents and customers would happily add:

"Ever."

[Raidermania12]

It's not like she made all that shit up.

Or was confused and mistakenly picked Ben out of a random police line up.

Or that Ben accidentally was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Or somehow Ben's fingerprints were there from some previous visit.

Or a mix up at he DNA lab.

Come on, get real...
u seem like the unrealistic guy here. U honestly know as much as everyone else here, which is next to nothing. You're driving alot on assumption and even draw up a defense of the accuser's decision making. You have strong convictions on this so I'll leave u be, but it's pretty irresponsible to crusade on half info and rumor. I remember people did that in the Michael Jackson case(rumors ran rampant on Jesus juice and plenty more), now the kid says his dad had him falsely accuse mj for money and maybe out of guilt the dad kills himself. Until then jackson was guilty w/o conviction in that incident. Again you'll push this regardless so I'll just call it irresponsible and leave u be until your next "let's get pacman he's a great player and a changed man" jihad. :p

[DarthRaidor]

Really, Mass? Really, Rupe?

I'm all for due process, and I'm actually not saying the DA should have brought a case when he didn't have the evidence to convict.

But that's not Goodell's issue. He's the CEO, not the DA.

He's faced with the option of punishing bad conduct by one of his most prominent and highly compensated employees (an employee who was in the position to engage in the bad conduct precisely BECAUSE he was one of his most prominent and highly compensated employees), or to look the other way and essentially condone it.

Say you're CEO at a company, a company that produced some family-friendly product. And one of your most public representatives, say a long-time executive, or a spokesperson or something, does or says something so personally selfish, offensive, and reprehensible that it makes news, news that of course mentions your company every time it's written about.

Now it isn't illegal, mind you, it isn't going to land him in jail. Nor is it going to have any legal impact on the company, you're clean. It's just bad behavior.

Would you say "Well, he hasn't committed a crime, so we're not taking any action against him."?

Of course not, you'd renounce him, denounce him, and fire his ass so fast it'd make his head spin! The last thing you'd want is for the world think that this was the kind of guy your company was okay with, the kind of behavior your company tacitly endorsed in its figureheads.

"No sociopathic asshole's going to get away with this kind of behavior on my watch!" (or family-friendly words to that effect) you'd say, in a hastily-called press conference.

To which your relieved employees and constituents and customers would happily add:

"Ever."

Agreed. If not for this shit with these women, I'd be all for Al doing all he could to bring in Big Ben, but the baggage he brings would be to much of a cross to bear. I'm as sick of Fatback as anybody and believe me I want him to go too but Ben's rep is shit right now and I don't know if bringing him in is a good idea. I'd rather pursue Campbell, T. Jackson or hell maybe even Vick before I'd pursue Ben at this time.

[Rupert]

Very nice.

It's a good thing no one has ever been falsely accused of rape.
Ever.
Really, Mass? Really, Rupe?
So are you saying that there has NEVER been a false accusation of rape? :shakehead:

That's not demonstrating clear thinking. Sorry, it just isn't.

My comment, come on man I said "ever", means it was not related to this specific case.

You laid out how you see the Roethlisberger case pretty well. I don't know if those are the facts of the incident, so it's definitely not for me to make a judgement based upon the claims I have read. And believe me, I have not read much of anything about the case.

[Raidermania12]

Also may I politely say fuck you go anyone who sees it as a defense of Cheeseburger. It's a general issue and creep or not it's shitty to punish unconvicted players. Especially with a totalitarian setup that walks over player union rights at a personal discretion of one guy.

[Rupert]

Also may I politely say fuck you go anyone who sees it as a defense of Cheeseburger. It's a general issue and creep or not it's shitty to punish unconvicted players. Especially with a totalitarian setup that walks over player union rights at a personal discretion of one guy.

Is it right that members of the military are subject to double jeopardy?

[Sleet]

Also may I politely say fuck you go anyone who sees it as a defense of Cheeseburger. It's a general issue and creep or not it's shitty to punish unconvicted players. Especially with a totalitarian setup that walks over player union rights at a personal discretion of one guy.

Its "shitty to punish unconvicted players"? Really?

Don't you think Goddell is "convicting" them under the NFL's Personal Conduct Policy, which does not require proof beyond a reasonable doubt, twelve people to hear the evidence, or criminal misconduct.

Unless and until the NFLPA negotiates a different process, conduct detrimental to the league (or something vague like that), and Goddell meating out punishment as he sees fit, is the standard and the process, and I have no problem with it. The NFL is not a democracy. How hard is it not to do drugs, collect your millions, and stay out of trouble?

I'm sure you have plenty of examples where Goddell got it wrong, but I can't think of many. Nor in this instance would I care if Ben got 4 games or an entire year.

[RaiderRobert]

u seem like the unrealistic guy here. U honestly know as much as everyone else here, which is next to nothing. You're driving alot on assumption and even draw up a defense of the accuser's decision making. You have strong convictions on this so I'll leave u be, but it's pretty irresponsible to crusade on half info and rumor. I remember people did that in the Michael Jackson case(rumors ran rampant on Jesus juice and plenty more), now the kid says his dad had him falsely accuse mj for money and maybe out of guilt the dad kills himself. Until then jackson was guilty w/o conviction in that incident. Again you'll push this regardless so I'll just call it irresponsible and leave u be until your next "let's get pacman he's a great player and a changed man" jihad. :p

MJ was innocent? :pound: I suppose OJ was innocent too? :shakehead: The guy fled the country until the case conveniently fell apart. I guess in your mind all the accusations and stories from other kids were made up too? There is a very good reason cliches like "where there is smoke there is fire" are so popular.

For the record, there is a world of difference between Pacman and Ben. Pacman is a disturber of the peace, and a thug. A shit stirrer. A menace. What Ben "is" (in quotation marks for those of you who prefer to include the word "allegedly") is another animal all together. Darker and more disturbing. There is a reason rapists get the special treatment they do in prison...

[Crow]

Forget guilt or innocence. Charges haven't even been filed. Ben wasn't even fingerprinted, was he?

If this chick was so quick to say "nevermind", it must not be a big deal to her. Hey, I can dig it. Some chicks misplace their pussies on a weekly basis. That's just how they live. Maybe they cry it out on Sunday morning, but such is the life of a party girl.


If it turns out that Ben actually is a rapist, burn him. Until then, find out what Pittsburgh would take for him.

[DarthRaidor]

MJ was innocent? :pound: I suppose OJ was innocent too? :shakehead: The guy fled the country until the case conveniently fell apart. I guess in your mind all the accusations and stories from other kids were made up too? There is a very good reason cliches like "where there is smoke there is fire" are so popular.

For the record, there is a world of difference between Pacman and Ben. Pacman is a disturber of the peace, and a thug. A shit stirrer. A menace. What Ben "is" (in quotation marks for those of you who prefer to include the word "allegedly") is another animal all together. Darker and more disturbing. There is a reason rapists get the special treatment they do in prison...

MJ was innocent RR. The kid who accused him has admitted that he was forced by his own father to make those accusations against MJ for $$$. When this information came out, the father of the "molested" promptly commited suicide. If that doesn't prove innocence, than nothing will. OJ is a whole different story altogether, even though he wasn't convicted of murder except in the minds of the media and certain segments of the public.

[Crow]

MJ was innocent RR. The kid who accused him has admitted that he was forced by his own father to make those accusations against MJ for $$$. When this information came out, the father of the "molested" promptly commited suicide. If that doesn't prove innocence, than nothing will. OJ is a whole different story altogether, even though he wasn't convicted of murder except in the minds of the media and certain segments of the public.

Which one?

[Postmaster]

MJ was innocent RR. The kid who accused him has admitted that he was forced by his own father to make those accusations against MJ for $$$. When this information came out, the father of the "molested" promptly commited suicide. If that doesn't prove innocence, than nothing will. OJ is a whole different story altogether, even though he wasn't convicted of murder except in the minds of the media and certain segments of the public.

:pound:

[RaiderRobert]

If it turns out that Ben actually is a rapist, burn him. Until then, find out what Pittsburgh would take for him.

So, you suggest giving up picks or players for him, then before training camp or sometime around Halloween maybe, something happens and OOPS he "allegedly" does it again but this time it sticks. You willing to go down that road? It seems to me that is the more likely scenario than Ben miraculously getting us to the Super Bowl anytime soon...

[Crow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h1euQKJsr4

[Crow]

So, you suggest giving up picks or players for him, then before training camp or sometime around Halloween maybe, something happens and OOPS he "allegedly" does it again but this time it sticks. You willing to go down that road?

Yep. I figure a couple near misses, a suspension, and a trade to football hell should be enough to wrestle the decision making away from his cock for a while. Maybe not permanently, but for a while.

If not, hey. It wouldn't be the worst trade Al ever made.

[DarthRaidor]

:pound:

:fu:

http://thecapt.blog-city.com/jackson_sexual_accuser_now_recants_after_death.htm

[Sleet]

MJ was innocent RR. The kid who accused him has admitted that he was forced by his own father to make those accusations against MJ for $$$. When this information came out, the father of the "molested" promptly commited suicide. If that doesn't prove innocence, than nothing will. OJ is a whole different story altogether, even though he wasn't convicted of murder except in the minds of the media and certain segments of the public.

I don't think Ben is denying that he went to a college bar, got this girl drunk, had plans on banging her, got her alone in a bathroom, had his peeps block the door and protect his back, and had sex with this drunken girl.

So, do you really think if she'd said "no," Ben would have stopped? Really? Lets say she didn't say no, but wanted to notch Ben on her belt. If that was the case, why in the bathroom? Why not in the VIP room? Why not in Ben's hotel? Why would she care if others saw her doing it in the VIP room?

Ben's not credible. Neither is she. But Goddell's not passing judgment on her.

[RaiderRobert]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h1euQKJsr4

Hadn't seen that before. Thanks. Loved it.

[DarthRaidor]

I don't think Ben is denying that he went to a college bar, got this girl drunk, had plans on banging her, got her alone in a bathroom, had his peeps block the door and protect his back, and had sex with this drunken girl.

So, do you really think if she'd said "no," Ben would have stopped? Really? Lets say she didn't say no, but wanted to notch Ben on her belt. If that was the case, why in the bathroom? Why not in the VIP room? Why would she care if her others saw her doing it?

Ben's not credible. Neither is she. But Goddell's not passing judgment on her.

Goodell isn't passing judgement on Ben for rape. He's passing judgement on him to due to all the salacious details in the court transcripts. It's all about personal conduct.

[Postmaster]

"Get your Peter Pan ass down here and make some peanut butter".

:pound:

[East Bay Grease]

So are you saying that there has NEVER been a false accusation of rape? :shakehead:

That's not demonstrating clear thinking. Sorry, it just isn't.
Damn, Rupert--you're good at this. (As you might say: SCORE!) But c'mon, I know you know that's not what I was saying.

I was just incredulous that you guys were trotting out the false accusation defense in a discussion about Goodell taking extra-legal action in this case.

Of course, you're right in general: there have been countless false accusations of rape. (Though the number probably doesn't approach the number of unreported or unprosecuted rapes. But I know you're not saying it does--and that is a whooooole 'nother conversation!)

My comment, come on man I said "ever", means it was not related to this specific case.
Okay, my bad, then... I misunderstood you. I really DID take it for an endorsement of Massraider's seeming skepticism of these charges, because HIS sarcastic post about false accusations was in dismissive response to a heartfelt post from RaiderRobert that I totally agree with.

Here's how the exchange went:
I'm a little astonished at some of the people in here that are ok with Ben's actions. "No conviction, no problem" seems to be the prevailing opinion. That rather disgusts me. Rape is a very difficult thing to prove in a court of law. Add in to the difficulties the "hush money" that Ben pays, and he will get away with it over and over again. LIKE HE HAS DONE. This is 2 consecutive offseasons with rape accusations, and there are confirmed reports of others that never saw the light of day. Ben is a Repeat Sexual Predator. It's his game. Why do you think the off-duty cop that was with Ben (and held that girl's friends out of the bathroom while she was with Ben), resigned from his police department?.... [snip]
Very nice.

It's a good thing no one has ever been falsely accused of rape.
Ever.
I assumed your "Ever" meant you were agreeing with, and amplifying his point. So I'm still not sure I understand--what did you mean? (Earnest un-sarcastic question.)

[Sleet]

Goodell isn't passing judgement on Ben for rape. He's passing judgement on him to due to all the salacious details in the court transcripts. It's all about personal conduct.

Didn't mean to imply that Goddell was passing judgment re: rape. He doesn't even need to decide whether it was, or wasn't. But the accusations of rape are plainly germane to Goddell's analysis, and he'll certainly pass judgment on Ben's behavior this offseason, last offseason, and at all times in between, under the vague standards of the NFL's PCP. The DA made sure of that.

[Langlier]

Yes, that girl made a bad choice. It happens all the time. Have you ever been drunk and made a bad decision that you regretted? Ever had someone twice your size delivering that bad decision to you and having no way to stop it? Or been so embarrassed and ashamed about it that you just hoped it could just go away?

Rape isn't about sex, it's about power. Most people don't understand that. If they did, maybe they would see this more clearly. I only hope since that DA knew he couldn't give Ben his due, (and kudos to him for his public comments and intent with that) that Goodell does what he can...

thing is - ive not put my position to be extremely drunk around people who i dont trust. its a thing with me.

what i will say is we don't know what happened. we know bad decisions were made by both parties. we know that the DA didnt feel there was a case against ben. we know that the girl wanted to retract her charges. that is enough for me to give ben the benefit of the doubt. that said he needs to not put himself in the position where random skank can even accuse him (with any basis) of rape.

[RaiderRobert]

we know that the DA didnt feel there was a case against ben.

No, we know he thought he couldn't ensure a conviction. But he made his beliefs known through his comments regarding the case.

we know that the girl wanted to retract her charges

That would be the 'hush" money being received...

[Langlier]

I'm not really addressing this to you in particular, Langlier, since a few others have said essentially the same thing, and you were stating it in a pretty sensitive context. But I've got a hypothetical question for you all...

Say a 30-year-old man goes to a college bar and finds an attractive woman (your friend, sister, or daughter, of course), slips a little something in one of the drinks he buys her, and drags her to his nice nearby apartment where no one will see, and after she says "it's not OK," fucks her anyway, without her conscious consent, telling her "yeah, it's OK," as she gives up and takes it, not putting up any physical resistance. He zips up, and charmingly, sends her out the door, to her waiting, wondering friends. She's upset about it, she remembers it, but not completely.

Is it "OK"? Of course not, it's rape.

Alright, now let's introduce some variations:
• If that guy is famous, does that make it OK?
• If that guy uses a not-so-nice bathroom instead of a nice nearby apartment, does that make it OK?
• If that guy makes her blow him instead of fuck him, (perhaps aware of avoiding DNA evidence), does that make it OK?
• If that guy has accomplices who do the dragging in and the sending out, does that make it OK?
• If that guy doesn't have to slip something in her drink himself, because he has the club essentially supplying him with a guarded backroom full of already falling-down drunk girls (and no men), does that make it OK?
• If this guy has this whole M.O. down to a system, with a whole procedure, and a whole team of accomplices, some of them off-duty cops...does that make it OK?
• If that guy has ALL of the above going for him, to the point where the girl in question feels she can't possibly succeed if she presses charges, does that make it OK?

You get my point.

It may not sound like the kind of rape we usually hear about. But that's because very few men are in a position to do it. And because it's hard to prosecute. But it sure sounds like rape to me.

And it's especially insidious. It's anything but a spontaneous, unpremeditated, boys-will-be-boys crime of passion. It's a cold-blooded, fucked-up, misogynist, power-tripping rich asshole's recreational sport.

And unless that asshole does the mother of all moral turn-arounds, I hope he's never a Raider, no matter how good a QB he is.

Maybe he's been able to escape the law, but I hope Goodell nails his ass good. Give him a choice: Community service at women's abuse center during a one-year suspension? Or a kick in the nuts every day from an NFL lineman?

:lowblow:
I mean, not that I have any strong feelings on the subject, or anything.

so she went to a bar by herself (from what the scenario sounds like

took drinks from a stranger and went home with him willingly (or did he literally drag her from the bar?)

then said no when things went down? did she try to stop him physically?

so far - lots of bad decisions on her part. and by just making one right one she probably doesnt have this happen to her.

obviously this is a rape case by how the scenario you played out went down. but the woman in this case (and in other cases like this) needs to make better decisions.

i'm not going to answer all of your hypotheticals. I have an understanding that rape is a hard thing to deal with mentally. But we don't have enough information in this case to make any of those judgements.

[Sleet]

thing is - ive not put my position to be extremely drunk around people who i dont trust. its a thing with me.

what i will say is we don't know what happened. we know bad decisions were made by both parties. we know that the DA didnt feel there was a case against ben. we know that the girl wanted to retract her charges. that is enough for me to give ben the benefit of the doubt. that said he needs to not put himself in the position where random skank can even accuse him (with any basis) of rape.

Can't this guy get laid without being accused of assult? Tiger went out on his wife how many times and did not get accused of rape, once? He was probably getting laid with his wife, too. Since when does being accused of sexual assult the cost of doing business?

Nevertheless, I think everyone was on board with that result the 1st time Ben was accused in Nevada. I think the DA in Georgia wanted to make sure that was not the result this time around; so he released everything. And I think word of other incidents have surfaced. Goddell has a lot (my guess).

[Langlier]

No, we know he thought he couldn't ensure a conviction. But he made his beliefs known through his comments regarding the case.



That would be the 'hush" money being received...

ensure a conviction my ass - if there was ANY hope he'd be pushing it.

hush money - i'm not going to rule it out. but we don't know that. we can only assume. i don't like to assume in cases of rape accusation

[Crow]

So, do you really think if she'd said "no," Ben would have stopped? Really?

I sure hope you don't serve jury duty. You seem awfully quick to convict. You're like a prosecutor's wet dream.

Lets say she didn't say no, but wanted to notch Ben on her belt. If that was the case, why in the bathroom? Why not in the VIP room? Why not in Ben's hotel?

Never been clubbing before, I take it. People fuck in the bathrooms.

"That's just freaky."
"That's nasty."

And that's the point.

Also, it affords you the option of going back to the dance floor or bar or whatever after getting your rocks off, rather than having to pay another cover charge to get back inside. If you're Ben, you may be trying to put two notches in your belt that night as opposed to just that one. If you're her, maybe you want to get an NFL QB on your resume'...or just a piece of dick...without leaving the people you came with.

Why would she care if others saw her doing it in the VIP room?


Maybe she's not an exhibitionist? You can be a whore without being a public performer.

[Raidermania12]

ensure a conviction my ass - if there was ANY hope he'd be pushing it.

hush money - i'm not going to rule it out. but we don't know that. we can only assume. i don't like to assume in cases of rape accusation

Yea well Robby here is the king of rolling with assumption. He's got hush money alibis for the girl and a sob story for her, like a naive father believing his lil angel could never go slut for someone as creep like as Crow.... Er I mean Ben cheeseburger. J/k :D

[Crow]

That would be the 'hush" money being received...

If her silence was for sale, he hole probably was too.

[RaiderRobert]

If her silence was for sale, he hole probably was too.

Maybe she's not an exhibitionist? You can be a whore without being a public performer.

Yea well Robby here is the king of rolling with assumption. He's got hush money alibis for the girl and a sob story for her, like a naive father believing his lil angel could never go slut for someone as creep like as Crow.... Er I mean Ben cheeseburger. J/k :D

Interesting. We both have the same facts to read, same picture to look at. You guys see a whore and a slut, approve of Ben's behavior, and would love to see Ben rewarded. I see a Monster, a Repeat Sexual Predator, a Rapist. And I would love to see him in prison. I was raised to treat women with respect. You obviously weren't. Sucks to be any of the women in your lives...

I'm done with this conversation. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. My opinion is clearly stated. I do NOT want that piece of shit as the QB of my favorite team, I don't care how good he is. And I feel very sorry for the next girl that Ben attacks. Karma is a bitch, and I hope everyone involved gets their fair share.

[Rupert]

Damn, Rupert--you're good at this. (As you might say: SCORE!) But c'mon, I know you know that's not what I was saying.

I was just incredulous that you guys were trotting out the false accusation defense in a discussion about Goodell taking extra-legal action in this case.

Of course, you're right in general: there have been countless false accusations of rape. (Though the number probably doesn't approach the number of unreported or unprosecuted rapes. But I know you're not saying it does--and that is a whooooole 'nother conversation!)


Okay, my bad, then... I misunderstood you. I really DID take it for an endorsement of Massraider's seeming skepticism of these charges, because HIS sarcastic post about false accusations was in dismissive response to a heartfelt post from RaiderRobert that I totally agree with.

Here's how the exchange went:



I assumed your "Ever" meant you were agreeing with, and amplifying his point. So I'm still not sure I understand--what did you mean? (Earnest un-sarcastic question.)

Nope, I was just saying that false accusations of rape exist.

Further discussion of this topic is inappropriate for a football forum though, even though Roethlisberger brought it up.

Bones: Ban Ben immediately. ;)

[Sleet]

I sure hope you don't serve jury duty. You seem awfully quick to convict. You're like a prosecutor's wet dream.



Never been clubbing before, I take it. People fuck in the bathrooms.

"That's just freaky."
"That's nasty."

And that's the point.

Also, it affords you the option of going back to the dance floor or bar or whatever after getting your rocks off, rather than having to pay another cover charge to get back inside. If you're Ben, you may be trying to put two notches in your belt that night as opposed to just that one. If you're her, maybe you want to get an NFL QB on your resume'...or just a piece of dick...without leaving the people you came with.



Maybe she's not an exhibitionist? You can be a whore without being a public performer.

You've explained why the prosecutor didn't bring charges. And, no, I don't go clubbing (look at my Avatar recently?) It seems to me that if you've got body guards keeping people out, why not do it in the VIP room?

In any event, the point is, its a sorry story, and Goddell doesn't need the answers to my questions, or your questions. He's got what he needs; that's repeated violations of the NFL's PCP.

The only question that remains is 1, 2 or 4 games.

[Crow]

Yea well Robby here is the king of rolling with assumption. He's got hush money alibis for the girl and a sob story for her, like a naive father believing his lil angel could never go slut for someone as creep like as Crow.... Er I mean Ben cheeseburger. J/k :D

Bender: Remember how you said your parents use you to get back at each other?
Claire: [nods]
Bender: Wouldn't I be OUTSTANDING in that capacity?

:cool:

[Crow]

Interesting. We both have the same facts to read, same picture to look at. You guys see a whore and a slut, approve of Ben's behavior, and would love to see Ben rewarded. I see a Monster, a Repeat Sexual Predator, a Rapist. And I would love to see him in prison. I was raised to treat women with respect. You obviously weren't. Sucks to be any of the women in your lives...

I'm done with this conversation. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. My opinion is clearly stated. I do NOT want that piece of shit as the QB of my favorite team, I don't care how good he is. And I feel very sorry for the next girl that Ben attacks. Karma is a bitch, and I hope everyone involved gets their fair share.

Who's approving of Ben's behavior? I said that if he turns out to be a rapist, burn him. Light the man on fire, and use his cock as the wick. Apparently, you're reading things into this thread that don't exist. Stands to reason that you're doing the same thing with the alleged facts in this he said/she said situation.

[Sleet]

Who's approving of Ben's behavior? I said that if he turns out to be a rapist, burn him. Light the man on fire, and use his cock as the wick. Apparently, you're reading things into this thread that don't exist. Stands to reason that you're doing the same thing with the alleged facts in this he said/she said situation.

That's just it. Its not he said/she said. That's why the prosecutor did not prosecute. What everyone agrees upon as the facts, including that either of them could be lying, is all that Goddell needs to suspend Big Ben. Ben lost the benefit of the doubt back in Nevada, when he got himself into another he said/she said situation with a women that nobody (or few people) took seriously.

And, now, it is apparent that the DA, having investigated the issue, finds this women's story credible, just not strong enough to convict in court, but certainly strong enough to influence public opinion (although, apparently, not yours).

[Crow]

I have no beef at all with Ben losing a couple game checks. Goodell saud from Day 1 that he was going to protect that shield above all else. He came in swinging, true to his word. I expect Ben will take one on the chin here in the next few days...as has been reported...and probably has it coming.

Hell, most young men would benefit from a punch in the mouth every so often just to regain perspective.

[RaiderRobert]

Who's approving of Ben's behavior? I said that if he turns out to be a rapist, burn him. Light the man on fire, and use his cock as the wick. Apparently, you're reading things into this thread that don't exist. Stands to reason that you're doing the same thing with the alleged facts in this he said/she said situation.

You are an avid supporter of trading for Ben and bringing him here to Oakland to be our Franchise QB, correct? Is it too much of a reach to assume that if you like the player, and want him to be the face of our team, you like the man? Maybe it is just more black and white for me. I really shouldn't assume you approve of his behavior, but it seemed logical to me. I just don't root for, support, wish for, or approve of people with obviously low morals. And I have a special place in my heart for high profile sports players who like to rape drunk girls...

[Crow]

And, now, it is apparent that the DA, having investigated the issue, finds this women's story credible, just not strong enough to convict in court, but certainly strong enough to influence public opinion (although, apparently, not yours).

I've been on the wrong end of a bogus charge or two. I need a little more than some parting shots from a DA who doesn't even have the confidence to take this thing to court to impress me. There's a lot more to the system than right & wrong and truth & lies.

(No. No rape charges. But I've seen the "Are you fucking kidding me?" side of our alleged justice system.)

[Crow]

You are an avid supporter of trading for Ben and bringing him here to Oakland to be our Franchise QB, correct?

Yes.

Is it too much of a reach to assume that if you like the player, and want him to be the face of our team, you like the man?

It's very much a reach, yes. I'll likely never meet any of these players. Liking the public perception of them is the least of my worries.

If Jimmy Clausen came in and lit it up, I'd sing his praises. I think the guy's an idiot, but that opinion rates a very distant 2nd to on the field production. It's all about that dubya.

Maybe it is just more black and white for me. I really shouldn't assume you approve of his behavior, but it seemed logical to me. I just don't root for, support, wish for, or approve of people with obviously low morals.

You mormon? Pentecostal? You really think you're in a place to judge morality? I personally consider your determination to convict a man of rape who hasn't been charged with such pretty immoral. That's just me.

And I have a special place in my heart for high profile sports players who like to rape drunk girls...

There's a difference between influencing a drunken party girl to let you peel her panties to one side and actually raping her.

There's a difference between persistence and actually taking the pussy.

You're a grown man. You know this stuff.

[Sleet]

I've been on the wrong end of a bogus charge or two. I need a little more than some parting shots from a DA who doesn't even have the confidence to take this thing to court to impress me. There's a lot more to the system than right & wrong and truth & lies.

(No. No rape charges. But I've seen the "Are you fucking kidding me?" side of our alleged justice system.)

Not sure what you're point is here. Its not what the DA said, but what the DA disclosed, that is damning to Big Ben. And it was pretty damning to a NFL, 2-time SB champion, who's 28 and you'd think could get laid without me ever hearing about it. But, now, I've heard him being accused of rape, twice. Something gives. At minimum, this guy needs a better bedside manner.

[Sleet]

There's a difference between influencing a drunken party girl to let you peel her panties to one side and actually raping her.

There's a difference between persistence and actually taking the pussy.



There's a difference between a 19-year-old college kid, and a 28-year-old man, who you think could find a girl who actually liked him sober.

Funny how I don't hear about Derek Jeter's exploits. I doubt he has to so "influence a druncken party girl to . . . peel her panties to one side . . . ," at least where he is later accused of rape, more than once.

[Crow]

He's almost assuredly a piece of shit. I wouldn't dispute that. It's hard to call the man a rapist without looking like a dink, though. If the evidence were there, he'd have been charged. It wasn't, so he wasn't.

Now, had he been a 20K per year type of guy who couldn't afford a good lawyer, yeah. He'd be well on his way to a railroading right now. The DA saw that he didn't have a case against someone who could actually afford council, so the case wasn't pursued. That's how it works.

[Crow]

There's a difference between a 19-year-old college kid, and a 28-year-old man, who you think could find a girl who actually liked him sober.

Who goes to a bar looking for a sober chick? :confused:


Funny how I don't hear about Derek Jeter's exploits. I doubt he has to so "influence a druncken party girl to . . . peel her panties to one side . . . ," at least where he is later accused of rape, more than once.

I don't watch baseball. Don't know a thing about anyone who plays it. Last I heard about Jeter, he was fucking Madonna.

Or was that A-Rod?

[Sleet]

Who goes to a bar looking for a sober chick? :pound:

I don't think Goddell wants him at bars looking to get laid in bathrooms. :nono:

[RaiderRobert]

If Jimmy Clausen came in and lit it up, I'd sing his praises. I think the guy's an idiot, but that opinion rates a very distant 2nd to on the field production. It's all about that dubya.

Idiot is one thing, rapist is quite another. The NFL is full of idiots...

You mormon? Pentecostal? You really think you're in a place to judge morality? I personally consider your determination to convict a man of rape who hasn't been charged with such pretty immoral. That's just me.

Not religious at all. But I know right from wrong, and believe in such things. I've done my fair share, (and more) of bad things, but nothing like what we are discussing here. Our legal system is an absolute mess. It started out great, but has become warped and ruined. The DA said he had credible evidence, but not enough to win the case. Let's just agree to disagree what that means.

There's a difference between influencing a drunken party girl to let you peel her panties to one side and actually raping her. There's a difference between persistence and actually taking the pussy.

No, there's not. Rape is rape. Taking advantage of a woman, and forcing her to your will whether using alcohol and persistence, or a gun, it is still the same thing. I can't believe you just said that. By the way, vaginal tearing is pretty much a sign that the pussy was "taken" by force.

You're a grown man. You know this stuff.

Two of my closest friends have been raped. One of them was raped by a current NBA player in view of and with the support of his "posse". Yes, she was drunk. Yes she used poor judgment. But putting yourself in a vulnerable position doesn't authorize other people to take advantage of that situation. Especially when you have no way to protect yourself against certain types of individuals who thrive in this type of behavior.

I do know this stuff, because I have been there for my friends. Unfortunately I wasn't there when I was needed most. Had I been, it never would have happened. I know the behavior, and anyone who has ever been a part of the recovery of someone who has gone through this, knows the behavior. You should maybe learn a little about this. Maybe it would do you some good. If you could see the psychological damage, pain, and struggles that some rape victims experience often for YEARS after, maybe you would see things a little differently. Maybe not.

[Crow]

:pound:

I don't think Goddell wants him at bars looking to get laid in bathrooms. :nono:

I think Goodell has banged a receptionist or two in some non-bedroom type surroundings. It's all CYA.

"Ben, if you don't cover your own ass, you force me into a position where I have to cover mine. I don't care what you do, just keep it out of the fucking headlines."

[Crow]

Idiot is one thing, rapist is quite another. The NFL is full of idiots...

There you go again. Convicting without evidence.

Not religious at all. But I know right from wrong, and believe in such things. I've done my fair share, (and more) of bad things, but nothing like what we are discussing here. Our legal system is an absolute mess. It started out great, but has become warped and ruined. The DA said he had credible evidence, but not enough to win the case. Let's just agree to disagree what that means.

If you knew right from wrong, I'd expect that you'd know what "guilty until proven innocent" means.

Oops. I mean "innocent until proven guilty." See? Even I get those two confused sometimes. You're not alone.


No, there's not. Rape is rape. Taking advantage of a woman, and forcing her to your will whether using alcohol and persistence, or a gun, it is still the same thing.

So persistence is akin to forcible rape? Are you holding a candle for this chick, or what? If achieving sex through persistence, or guiding a drunk chick towards a bad decision is rape, most men either of us know are fucking felons. Literally. Fucking felons.

I can't believe you just said that. By the way, vaginal tearing is pretty much a sign that the pussy was "taken" by force.

Or that the sex was rough. Or Ben is rocking the big 10 inch...disc. Or that Ben wasn't the first guy she'd hooked up with that night. Check her panties. She might be trying to give Ben the Kobe treatment.

Vaginae bruise. They tear. They sometimes bleed. Go ask one of your white friendgirls about the first time they laid down with a black guy. Damage was done. Probably enough to get some unfortunate results via rape kit.

Sometimes, for various reasons, a woman won't...or can't...self-lubricate properly. That can lead to some tearing. Tis sensitive tissue in there, man.

Why do I feel like I'm telling you things your dad should have explained when you were first sprouting crotch flowers?

Two of my closest friends have been raped. One of them was raped by a current NBA player in view of and with the support of his "posse". Yes, she was drunk. Yes she used poor judgment. But putting yourself in a vulnerable position doesn't authorize other people to take advantage of that situation. Especially when you have no way to protect yourself against certain types of individuals who thrive in this type of behavior.

And here it is. If you prod someone long enough, they'll expose the source of their unwarranted bias. Thank you.

I do know this stuff, because I have been there for my friends. Unfortunately I wasn't there when I was needed most. Had I been, it never would have happened. I know the behavior, and anyone who has ever been a part of the recovery of someone who has gone through this, knows the behavior. You should maybe learn a little about this. Maybe it would do you some good. If you could see the psychological damage, pain, and struggles that some rape victims experience often for YEARS after, maybe you would see things a little differently. Maybe not.

So, if I knew someone who'd been raped (doesn't everyone?), I'd join your illogical "Hang him, then have the trial!" mob? Um...no. I'll leave that failed mutation of logic to you and the Tea Partiers.

If there were any actual evidence that would stand up in court, they'd be talking about a court date.


Now, who's setting up the pool guessing when the civil suit hits?

[Sleet]

I think Goodell has banged a receptionist or two in some non-bedroom type surroundings. It's all CYA.

"Ben, if you don't cover your own ass, you force me into a position where I have to cover mine. I don't care what you do, just keep it out of the fucking headlines."

It is in the headlines b/c he's been accused of rape. Goodell, banging the receptionist or two in the non-bedreoom type surroundings, apparently did not result in a rape allegation. It has for Ben, twice. The first time he got the benefit of the doubt. The second time (which, for all we know, is the 20th time), he's been thrown under the bus.

"Fool [Ben] once, shame on you. Fool [Ben] twice, shame on [Ben]."

[DarthRaidor]

There you go again. Convicting without evidence.



If you knew right from wrong, I'd expect that you'd know what "guilty until proven innocent" means.

Oops. I mean "innocent until proven guilty." See? Even I get those two confused sometimes. You're not alone.



So persistence is akin to forcible rape? Are you holding a candle for this chick, or what? If achieving sex through persistence, or guiding a drunk chick towards a bad decision is rape, most men either of us know are fucking felons. Literally. Fucking felons.



Or that the sex was rough. Or Ben is rocking the big 10 inch...disc. Or that Ben wasn't the first guy she'd hooked up with that night. Check her panties. She might be trying to give Ben the Kobe treatment.

Vaginae bruise. They tear. They sometimes bleed. Go ask one of your white friendgirls about the first time they laid down with a black guy. Damage was done. Probably enough to get some unfortunate results via rape kit.

Sometimes, for various reasons, a woman won't...or can't...self-lubricate properly. That can lead to some tearing. Tis sensitive tissue in there, man.

Why do I feel like I'm telling you things your dad should have explained when you were first sprouting crotch flowers?



And here it is. If you prod someone long enough, they'll expose the source of their unwarranted bias. Thank you.



So, if I knew someone who'd been raped (doesn't everyone?), I'd join your illogical "Hang him, then have the trial!" mob? Um...no. I'll leave that failed mutation of logic to you and the Tea Partiers.

If there were any actual evidence that would stand up in court, they'd be talking about a court date.


Now, who's setting up the pool guessing when the civil suit hits?

Go ask one of your white friendgirls about the first time they laid down with a black guy. Damage was done.

This is true. Many a white girl has fallen before the power of DarthRaidor. Crow, I commend your astuteness regarding black cock.

[Crow]

It is in the headlines b/c he's been accused of rape.

No he wasn't. Sexual assault. Not at all the same charge.

[Crow]

This is true. Many a white girl has fallen before the power of DarthRaidor. Crow, I commend your astuteness regarding black cock.

And with that, I believe I should take my leave for the evening...

[Crow]

for all we know

Key words, because we don't know shit. Yet, somehow, the lack of actual knowledge isn't preventing anyone from branding the guy a rapist. Damn shame.

[DarthRaidor]

And with that, I believe I should take my leave for the evening...

:pound: Just kiddin man.

[CrossBones]

One thing everybody can agree on is that Roethlisberger acted like and is guilty of being a completely irresponsible douche. Is he a rapist? Don't think so based on what we know for sure. Unless some of you folks were there you're only operating under assumptions you've heard or read and then filled in the blanks. That's fact. None of us were there.

If the DA didn't charge Roethlisberger with a crime you have to believe there was something wrong with the girl's story whether it be inconsistencies or something else. Why? Because there have been lots of he said/she said cases that have been successfully prosecuted. In this case something with the girl's story was amiss.

I'm not taking Roethlisberger's side or calling the girl a slut but again something is inconsistent. I'll leave it at that. I wasn't there. I don't know for sure and neither do any of you who label Roethlisberger a rapist or 100% innocent.

[Sleet]

Key words, because we don't know shit. Yet, somehow, the lack of actual knowledge isn't preventing anyone from branding the guy a rapist. Damn shame.

No it is not. He brought it on himself. Its now his job (being a public figure) to win back his name. Two years from now, if he has kept his nose clean, he'll be given the keys to the city again if he keeps winning SBs. He has to take the bad with the good. Right now, he is getting what he deserves.

[Crow]

:pound: Just kiddin man.

You cut me, man. Ya cut me deep.


...and it occurs to me that, due to the context of our last couple posts, that comment is probably only making things worse for me.

Doh.


Was actually talking to a female friend today. She's preggers and a little unsure of the dad. She said she'll know who the daddy is by what color the baby is. Hey, it saves her money on a paternity test.

She's an old school country girl. The type who just could never see herself banging a brutha.

"When he showed me his junk, that rule was out the window."

Maybe not what MLK had in mind, but whatever works.

Says she got pregnant because during her fling with this dude, he knocked her IUD loose. Twice. I'm man enough to admit that I'm not man enough to pull that off.


But, to steer this back on topic (mercifully), suffice to say that some bruising and tearing does occur during regular intercourse.

[Postmaster]

You cut me, man. Ya cut me deep.


...and it occurs to me that, due to the context of our last couple posts, that comment is probably only making things worse for me.

Doh.


Was actually talking to a female friend today. She's preggers and a little unsure of the dad. She said she'll know who the daddy is by what color the baby is. Hey, it saves her money on a paternity test.

She's an old school country girl. The type who just could never see herself banging a brutha.

"When he showed me his junk, that rule was out the window."

Maybe not what MLK had in mind, but whatever works.

Says she got pregnant because during her fling with this dude, he knocked her IUD loose. Twice. I'm man enough to admit that I'm not man enough to that off.


But, to steer this back on topic (mercifully), suffice to say that some bruising and tearing does occur during regular intercourse.

Sounds like an episode of Trailer Park Boys.

[Jack's sore libido]

Oh, by the way, for those who don't know ... a woman cannot legally give consent to sex if she is legally intoxicated.

In the eyes of the law, if you have sex with a drunk woman, you have raped her. Period. End of story.

I ain't sayin' it's right, but it is the law.

[Crow]

No it is not. He brought it on himself. Its now his job (being a public figure) to win back his name. Two years from now, if he has kept his nose clean, he'll be given the keys to the city again if he keeps winning SBs. He has to take the bad with the good. Right now, he is getting what he deserves.

He brought your self-righteous bullshit on himself? Wow. I'm sure that'll be what really sets him back on the right path.

Didn't she willingly go into a bathroom with the guy? What? Did she fall for the old "I hurt my back at work and the doc says I can't lift anything over 20 pounds. Hold this for me?"

She BS'd her way into a bar. Underage. She met a celeb. Willingly went into a room alone with him. She went in there expecting the dick. I don't care what she says now. I've seen many a slut try to save face with more believable stories than this one. In the end, she's an underaged college girl who did what underaged college girls do.

[Jack's sore libido]

Didn't she willingly go into a bathroom with the guy?

Who knows?

We weren't there, right?

She BS'd her way into a bar. Underage. She met a celeb. Willingly went into a room alone with him. She went in there expecting the dick. I don't care what she says now.

Interesting, considering you just said a few posts ago that we don't know shit about this case.

[Crow]

Sounds like an episode of Trailer Park Boys.

Oddly enough, I've never seen that show. I should probably watch. I could probably relate. :D

[Crow]

One thing everybody can agree on is that Roethlisberger acted like and is guilty of being a completely irresponsible douche. Is he a rapist? Don't think so based on what we know for sure. Unless some of you folks were there you're only operating under assumptions you've heard or read and then filled in the blanks. That's fact. None of us were there.

If the DA didn't charge Roethlisberger with a crime you have to believe there was something wrong with the girl's story whether it be inconsistencies or something else. Why? Because there have been lots of he said/she said cases that have been successfully prosecuted. In this case something with the girl's story was amiss.

I'm not taking Roethlisberger's side or calling the girl a slut but again something is inconsistent. I'll leave it at that. I wasn't there. I don't know for sure and neither do any of you who label Roethlisberger a rapist or 100% innocent.

Get that voice of reason shit out of here! We're havin' ourselves a witchhunt!

[Postmaster]

http://www.schemamag.ca/archives/Trailer%20Park%20Boys.jpg

[CrossBones]

Who knows?

We weren't there, right?



Interesting, considering you just said a few posts ago that we don't know shit about this case.This is the point. We're arguing about facts (both ways) when we really don't know what they are. Yet each side of this argument is pretty certain they know what's right; what exactly happened. We don't.

Again the only thing we can say for certain is that Roethlisberger is guilty of being an idiot. Being irresponsible. There is no doubt about that. Clearly something happened. Beyond that we don't know the exact circumstances, what was said and what really happened. We think we do but we really don't --- isn't that right people?

[Sleet]

He brought your self-righteous bullshit on himself? Wow. I'm sure that'll be what really sets him back on the right path.

Didn't she willingly go into a bathroom with the guy? What? Did she fall for the old "I hurt my back at work and the doc says I can't lift anything over 20 pounds. Hold this for me?"

She BS'd her way into a bar. Underage. She met a celeb. Willingly went into a room alone with him. She went in there expecting the dick. I don't care what she says now. I've seen many a slut try to save face with more believable stories than this one. In the end, she's an underaged college girl who did what underaged college girls do.

Has nothing to do with me, righteous BS or just right (altough I've apparently struck a cord with you again). However, it does has everything to do with public opinion, and the NFL's PCP follows (rightly or wrongly).

If you've read the police reports, no, she did not go willingly into the bathroom. According to her, she sought to leave the VIP room, where she found herself alone with Ben. Instead of trying to push passed Ben, she went through the door next to her, but she was too drunk to realize it was the bathroom. Ben followed her into the bathroom.

That is where the he said/she said comes in.

As to her being an underaged college girl, have you stopped to think maybe Ben, at age 28 and with all his advantages, should leave the underaged college girls to underaged college boys?

[Crow]

Wait? Are you actually defending this little tramp? She's probably just setting up the parameters for a civil suit to pay for her schooling and new Camaro. If anyone, she's the sexual predator here.

[Raidermania12]

This is the point. We're arguing about facts (both ways) when we really don't know what they are. Yet each side of this argument is pretty certain they know what's right; what exactly happened. We don't.
Oh no dont throw me in there. The last thing i've given kudos to is facts being thrown around in this thread. Prejudging theories, extended truth stretching, and even the old "what if were your daughter" bullshit has snuck it's way in here. But facts? No way has that been a big part of this thread no matter how many of them are made up as if anybody here was in that virtuous bathroom, VIP, or whatever that night.

[CrossBones]

If you've read the police reports, no, she did not go willingly into the bathroom. According to her, she sought to leave the VIP room, where she found herself alone with Ben. Instead of trying to push passed Ben, she went through the door next to her, but she was too drunk to realize it was the bathroom. Ben followed her into the bathroom.

That is where the he said/she said comes in.

Again I'm trying to be objective here. Assuming all that is true is there any reason the DA wouldn't have busted Roethlisberger's balls? I think not. There had to be something in the girl's story that didn't ring true. Something that a grand jury or jury wouldn't buy and the DA must have know it.

Yes something happened but to completely absolve either side in this is not right either.

[CrossBones]

Oh no dont throw me in there. The last thing i've given kudos to is facts being thrown around in this thread. Prejudging theories, extended truth stretching, and even the old "what if were your daughter" bullshit has snuck it's way in here. But facts? No way has that been a big part of this thread no matter how many of them are made up as if anybody here was in that virtuous bathroom, VIP, or whatever that night.Yes I agree but you only bolded part of what I said...

We're arguing about facts (both ways) when we really don't know what they are.

[Raidermania12]

Again I'm trying to be objective here. Assuming all that is true is there any reason the DA wouldn't have busted Roethlisberger's balls? I think not.

The DA sounded like he was suggesting that Cheeseburger was dumb to get caught in a bathroom with a groupie both drunk and plenty of gray area going on in whats right and wrong fr both of them. Thus the "grow up", he didn't say if it were his son he'd calling him a rapist, just childish and dumb. Psychos take stuff way further in their interpretation of that.

[Crow]

If only Ben had read this, he wouldn't catch so much flack from these ungrateful whores.

http://www.therawr.com/Random/lolarticlelf4.jpg

[Jack's sore libido]

is there any reason the DA wouldn't have busted Roethlisberger's balls?

Well, there is money ...

This kind of thing is tough to prove anyway ...

[Postmaster]

"Pearl Necklace"? Weak.

If you really want to degrade her, ATM is the way to go.

[Crow]

"Pearl Necklace"? Weak.

If you really want to degrade her, ATM is the way to go.

I'd have that in the pre-nup, to be honest.

[Raidermania12]

Yes I agree but you only bolded part of what I said...

I get that you said that, but both ways? Most of the extended bs'n is coming from one way, the "burn him because i dont like him he must be a rapist" crowd. Crow is probably the only one truly prejudging the girl a lil bit. Personally I think anyone who accuses you of supporting some guy's behavior because you're ok with him on the team is a fucking hypocrite. RaiderRobert w/o hesitation wanted Pacman Jones, should i stretch out and say that he supports beating women in strip clubs and making it rain?

[Crow]

Crow is probably the only one truly prejudging the girl a lil bit.
Someone had to.

Personally I think anyone who accuses you of supporting some guy's behavior because you're ok with him on the team is a fucking hypocrite. RaiderRobert w/o hesitation wanted Pacman Jones, should i stretch out and say that he supports beating women in strip clubs and making it rain?
Ruh roh.


"Beat the shit out of them. Just don't touch their hoo-hoo." -RaiderRobert :pound:

[Sleet]

Wait? Are you actually defending this little tramp? She's probably just setting up the parameters for a civil suit to pay for her schooling and new Camaro. If anyone, she's the sexual predator here.

I doubt it. But if a drunk girl could be that smart (again, you haven't read the police reports have you), then good for her. If Ben would have simply paid for some ass, he wouldn't have to be paying for it now, would he?

Not sure why you are giving Ben a free pass. Ben can defend himself. He has all the resources. And, if he plays well and keeps his nose clean, two years from now he can talk about how this incident (and the similar ones like it) made him look at himself in the mirror, grow up, and change his life for the better. Then he'll get featured on ESPN, and all will be right in Steeler land (or where ever Ben gets traded). The girl, yea, maybe she can get some money. But she won't get her reputation back, or her psychi, if she was, in fact, raped. Seems to me, she's looking at more downside (if she's telling the truth) than Ben (if she's not). The fact that you are going after the (likely) victim, though, is telling.

[Langlier]

let me bring up the fact that a lot of people who are very willing to convict ben at this moment seem to be passing over

the girl admitted to having consensual sex with ben before this incident - this is the reason that no dna evidence, etc was allowed (or asked for).

again we don't know what happened but we do know that

1. having sex with ben was not something she was against
2. both parties had been drinking a lot

did she possibly make a bad decision? quite a few by my count
did he? again quite a few (supplying alcohol to minors being the one I can convict him of)

that said I'm not sure a "rape" occurred. I think if she really didn't want to have sex with him... she wouldnt have the first time and would have prevented it the 2nd.