McNabb or Kolb can be had for 2nd rd pick?

[DarthRaidor]

Eagles QB Donovan McNabb, once considered untouchable, is being mentioned in trade talks.
Posted on Wed, Mar. 24, 2010
Ashley Fox: Eagles' QB situation creating a stir
By Ashley Fox
Inquirer NFL columnist
ORLANDO - A rumor spread among the NFL's top executives yesterday: Donovan McNabb to Buffalo for draft picks.

Turns out that the trade rumor was false, or perhaps just not yet true.

Still, after the NFL's new overtime rule, approved yesterday by a 28-4 vote, the hottest topic at the league's meeting here was what the Eagles would be willing to accept for one of their three quarterbacks.

The Eagles certainly aren't divulging their plans, but it's growing ever unlikely that they'll have McNabb, Kevin Kolb, and Michael Vick by the time next month's draft is complete.

Coach Andy Reid told me yesterday that the team is entertaining offers for the quarterbacks, and despite his assertions after the last season that McNabb would be his guy going into the 2010 season, that doesn't appear to be a given anymore.

"This is the truth: Our three quarterbacks are Philadelphia Eagles," Reid said yesterday morning from a table in the lobby of the Ritz Carlton, site of the NFL's annual meeting in Orlando. "People are entertaining us with offers. Nothing's been done, but we're evaluating all of them. That's the truth. There's not a lot really going on other than entertaining."

Nevertheless, the buzz over Philadelphia's quarterback situation - and much speculation over what price each of the three would command - cannot be ignored.

According to numerous front-office people from around the league, there is little-to-no market for Vick as a starting quarterback, and teams are hesitant to trade for Vick, given his publicly stated ambition of wanting to start this season.

There is, however, a market for the 33-year-old McNabb, a six-time Pro Bowler, and the 25-year-old Kolb, who has thrown 130 passes in his three-year career with the Eagles.

What's more, the Eagles apparently have lowered their price for either McNabb or Kolb. Once thought to be insistent on a first-round pick, the Eagles now are looking for a "fair" price - a second-round pick or a combination of high picks, a league source with knowledge of the team's thought process said.

One NFC general manager who is not looking for a starting quarterback said yesterday that if he were looking, he would be willing to offer a second-round pick for either McNabb or Kolb.

Seattle recently swapped second-round picks with San Diego and gave up a third-round pick in 2011 to get career backup Charlie Whitehurst, who has never thrown a pass in four NFL seasons. The Seahawks reportedly signed Whitehurst, a restricted free agent, to a two-year, $8 million contract, with $2 million more in incentives.

Also it is believed that, after much deliberation, the Eagles have decided to pursue an aggressive plan of action regarding the quarterbacks rather than wait for offers on all three to decide which way to go.

League sources yesterday offered varying opinions about what the Eagles may have decided.

One source with ties to the team suggested that the Eagles would keep McNabb and move Kolb, because to do the opposite would signal the official end of an era and would take the Eagles out of the NFC East title race and a Super Bowl chase.

Another from an NFC team said that the Eagles would move McNabb and go with Kolb because the team trusts Kolb can take over the team and be successful.

Still another source hinted that Reid might stick with McNabb because he believes McNabb will be a successful starting quarterback for the next four years, which would take Reid through the life of the contract extension he signed late last season. At the end of the 2013 season, McNabb will be 37.

Reid refused to reveal the team's plans but did say, "I think it's a great situation to be in, from a coach's standpoint.

"There are coaches who dream to be in this situation," Reid said. "I'm not in any hurry to get rid of any of them. Have people talked? Yeah, people have talked. Have we listened? Yeah, we're in the process of listening. The bottom line is if I have all three of them, that's great."

But that is unlikely to happen. All three are entering the final year of their respective deals.

Whatever the decision, if indeed they have already made one, the Eagles certainly have no interest in tipping their hand because to do so would devalue the quarterback they are trying to move. One goal is to get the highest pick, or picks, in the draft. The other is to win as many games, and, ostensibly, the Super Bowl, and do so immediately. Those goals don't necessarily mesh.

As for who needs a quarterback, Buffalo definitely does, but they weren't talking last night.

St. Louis might, but they have the No. 1 overall pick in the draft and are high on Oklahoma quarterback Sam Bradford, who is scheduled to have his pro day Monday. Arizona recently signed Derek Anderson to compete with Matt Leinart for the Cardinals starting job, but neither is special. Cleveland signed Jake Delhomme off the street, but he's an aging, average veteran. And Oakland always seems amenable to adding a quarterback.

The Eagles quarterback picture won't clear for a while, but it will clear one of these days. Despite how people might feel about McNabb (59.0 career completion percentage) or Kolb (two starts, four touchdowns, seven interceptions in his brief career), one thing is true:

"You can never have too many quarterbacks," an AFC general manager said. "Until someone blows them out of the water with an offer, they'll keep them."

At least for today.

[RaiderNationUK]

I'd rather Sheldon Brown please.

[massraider]

If McNabb is on the block, it stands to reason that Kolb isn't.

[Raider Nation]

If McNabb is on the block, it stands to reason that Kolb isn't.

It sounds like they're both on the block. Or, at least, the Eagles are entertaining offers for both at this point.

[Jack's sore libido]

Why in the sam hell would the Eagles deal Kolb?

McNabb might be able to give them four years left. Unless they think Kolb isn't actually as good as he played last year (because he was playing the Saints -- 3 INTs -- and the shit-sucking Chiefs), and they want to sell high, I just don't see it.

[massraider]

It sounds like they're both on the block. Or, at least, the Eagles are entertaining offers for both at this point.

Right, and I think I am not sure I believe that.

I have to think Reid has a guy he wants moving forward. He either believes Kolb is the guy, or he doesn't. If he thinks Kolb is legit, then I don't believe Kolb is on the block.

Maybe it's a political stance, if they all get kept, it doesn't hurt McNabb's feelings, cause McNabb thinks Kolb was available as well.

I always believe that teams know what/who they want at QB. I don't think it's a situation where they think, "Eh, we'll go with whoever we don't trade...."

[Rupert]

Right, and I think I am not sure I believe that.

I have to think Reid has a guy he wants moving forward. He either believes Kolb is the guy, or he doesn't. If he thinks Kolb is legit, then I don't believe Kolb is on the block.

Maybe it's a political stance, if they all get kept, it doesn't hurt McNabb's feelings, cause McNabb thinks Kolb was available as well.

I always believe that teams know what/who they want at QB. I don't think it's a situation where they think, "Eh, we'll go with whoever we don't trade...."

I bet it's a very "six in one hand / a half dozen in the other" situation.

Kolb is not polished and needs work. The offense would struggle with him at times until he's fully acclimated. He's young and can be in place for a long time.

McNabb has proven what he's capable of. He's probably not going to take you to the promised land unless you get him some more help. He's old and will have to be replaced in a couple years.

There will be an immediate cost in W's for going with Kolb. No question. But long-term, you'll be better rewarded.

With McNabb, you can and will have to make sure the infrastructure around him is solid.

Either way, you'll need to draft a kid in the near future. If they keep McNabb, they'll need a high-round guy to step in soon. If they go Kolb, they can take a lower-round guy to develop over more years.

Of course this all assumes they like Kolb's upside. If you think he can do what McNabb does in a year or two, the decision is simple (for me at least). You keep him. If you don't think he can, it's also simple, you trade him while his perceived value is high.

There's definitely a lot of politics involved, but they might truly be facing a 50:50 proposition. If they can get a high enough pick for Kolb, it might be worth starting over with another rookie QB, especially if one they like falls to that pick on draft day.

[Postmaster]

Eagles Fielding Offers for McNabb – and Others

Wednesday, March 24, 2010
Posted: 10:28 a.m. | Updated: 11:20 a.m.
By Andy Schwartz
CSNPhilly.com

The Donovan McNabb Derby has begun.

The Eagles are fielding offers for their six-time Pro Bowl quarterback, and the price tag appears hefty.

Attending the NFL owners meetings in Orlando, CSN’s Derrick Gunn was told by one league source that the Eagles want a first-round pick and a couple of other picks for McNabb. He believed the Eagles would not have to reduce their price because trade talk was beginning to heat up.

However, another league source told Gunn that Eagles had reduced their price from a first-round pick and a third-round pick to just a third after failing to receive satisfactory offers.

But yet another league source said the Eagles have never asked for a definitive number of picks. They are currently weighing offers and deciding what to do next.

One of the sources also said that Buffalo and Oakland appear to be the leading candidates to acquire the 33-year-old McNabb, who wouldn’t be happy going to either team because neither is a contender.

Regardless, it appears everyone agrees on one thing: that the Eagles’ quarterback situation will change before the season starts. One of the sources said that eight teams have inquired about one of their quarterbacks.

Wednesday morning at the NFC media breakfast, head coach Andy Reid admitted that he is “listening” to offers and keeping his “ears open.”

Reid said the Eagles are in an “evaluation process” and said the depth chart remains the same as last season, with McNabb the No. 1, Kolb No. 2 two and Vick No. 3.

Hey now.....

[BigTron]

I seriously doubt the Eagles give up Kolb for a #2. They wanted 2 first last i heard. An Aging McNabb is worth a 2nd to me. But i bet the Eagles have their future QB in Kolb and wouldnt part with him for a 2nd only. Maybe 2 of them and a 3rd or something.

[system7]

Hey now.....

we will become a contender if we acquire McNabb :D

[Raidervinny]

Hey now.....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! If we are going to trade our 2nd round pick away I'd much rather trade for the younger Kolb than the past-his-prime McNabb. We have got to stop spending our draft picks on players older than 30!

[eleven]

Teams with ??? at QB:

St. Louis
Carolina
Minnesota
Washington
Oakland
Kansas City
Jacksonville
Buffalo

Carolina and Minny are about the only contenders he'd be likely to end up with. The Panthers would probably prefer to roll with Matt Moore and the Vikings are just waiting for Favre to make up his mind.

I just can't imagine McNabb would want to have anything to do with Al Davis....

He'll probably end up sulking for the Bills next year.

[Postmaster]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! If we are going to trade our 2nd round pick away I'd much rather trade for the younger Kolb than the past-his-prime McNabb. We have got to stop spending our draft picks on players older than 30!

I read it was a 3rd they were asking for McNabb. You wouldn't drop a 3rd on McNabb being with what we have at QB? I have high hopes for Grad but high hopes don't win games.

[massraider]

Big rumor in Philly radio that McNabb to St Looey for the 33rd pick.

From an emailer that has been right before. Supposed to be announced in a few hours.

[Postmaster]

Big rumor in Philly radio that McNabb to St Looey for the 33rd pick.

From an emailer that has been right before. Supposed to be announced in a few hours.

Damn...done deal??

Nice scoop.

[massraider]

Damn...done deal??


Nope, just a trusted source of a radio host in Philly. Far from confirmed.

[jatfly]

I read it was a 3rd they were asking for McNabb. You wouldn't drop a 3rd on McNabb being with what we have at QB? I have high hopes for Grad but high hopes don't win games.

IN A HEARTBEAT MCNABB WOLD BE OUR QB. Remember how old Warner was when he went to Arizona....Or Favre Last year in Minny. These old dudes can still play...Now I make the deal & then draft all OL.....

[massraider]

A friend with a friend in the Eagles org. just texted him saying, "You'll hear something soon" :eek:

[Postmaster]

A friend with a friend in the Eagles org. just texted him saying, "You'll hear something soon" :eek:

Raider related or Rams related???

[massraider]

Raider related or Rams related???

Rams. PFT has added a post on this just now, and included this:

That rumor heated up today, as Mike Missanelli of 97.5 The Fanatic in Philly was discussing it on the air. He eventually pointed out that Chris Mortensen of ESPN had informed him via text that he had checked out the story with both parties, and that there's nothing to it.

[Postmaster]

Sources: Bills, Raiders inquired about McNabb
Charles Robinson

ORLANDO, Fla. – Philadelphia Eagles coach Andy Reid said Wednesday the team is entertaining offers for Donovan McNabb(notes), and multiple sources told Yahoo! Sports the Buffalo Bills and Oakland Raiders have inquired about the quarterback’s availability.
McNabb has helped the Eagles earn eight playoff appearances and five NFC title game berths in his tenure.

However, one source with knowledge of McNabb’s interests said the 11-year veteran would favor a trade to a team with a contending roster, such as the Arizona Cardinals – a franchise that isn’t currently in the mix for his services. The source said McNabb likely wouldn’t sign a long-term deal in either Buffalo or Oakland, which could create a sticking point in any trade talks, as both franchises would expect a new deal in place before acquiring him. McNabb is due a $6.2 million roster bonus in May and is slated to become an unrestricted free agent in 2011.

Both Buffalo and Oakland are prohibited about talking about players on other teams. However, Buffalo coach Chan Gailey did say on Tuesday that he hadn’t ruled out adding an established, star-quality quarterback, similar to the move the Minnesota Vikings made last season with Brett Favre(notes).

“I don’t know, maybe,” Gailey said. “That hasn’t come up, but could we? Yeah. … We’re not looking at anything right now that is set in concrete. Because when you don’t have a proven starter, you’re open to every scenario.”

Meanwhile, the Raiders’ current starting plan at quarterback entails former starter JaMarcus Russell(notes) battling journeyman Bruce Gradkowski(notes) and Charlie Frye(notes) to retain his job.

Though Reid didn’t elaborate on which franchises had contacted the Eagles, he said that all three of the team’s quarterbacks – McNabb, Kevin Kolb(notes) and Michael Vick(notes) – had drawn trade interest

“We’ll go back and look through those [talks] and think through them a little bit once we’re away from this situation here,” Reid said. “[There is] nothing that, right now, that I can jump up and down about. But there has been some interest. … I’m listening to things out there. I’m not saying I’m doing anything. I’m just keeping my ears open, which we do on every player. This is no different.”

Pressed on whether he could guarantee McNabb wouldn’t be traded, Reid was evasive.

“I can tell you Donovan is our starter,” he said. “I can’t make it any clearer than that. We can get into semantics. Donovan is our starting quarterback.”

With teams firming up their scouting reports and the Eagles needing to seize on quarterback-needy teams before franchises have a chance to add one in the draft, several executives said they believe Philadelphia will act in the next several days if it chooses to deal McNabb. Another source with knowledge of McNabb’s situation said he believes a deal is coming “sooner than later” and said he believed the window extended “less than seven days.”

Whether that comes to fruition could depend on several factors. First is Philadelphia’s asking price, which is believed to be a package that would include at least a second-round NFL draft pick. Second is McNabb’s willingness to extend his contract with the club that acquires him – a detail that gives McNabb some power in the process. And third is the Eagles’ ability to reach an agreement on a new deal with Kolb, whom is favored within the organization but has a deal expiring after 2010.

Despite those considerable hurdles, other factors appear to be pressing a deal into motion now. McNabb’s age (33) has put him in Philadelphia’s crosshairs, along with the organizations intent on developing Kolb as its future starter. Combined with the contracts of both players expiring beyond 2010, and the team’s exercising the option of Michael Vick (who also is slated to earn $5.25 million in 2010), all signs point to the Eagles making a move now. And with the handful of quarterback-needy teams still seeking options, there may never be a better environment for Philadelphia to make a move with McNabb.

As one league general manager put it, “I can’t see any way they go to the draft with all three of their current [quarterbacks]. It doesn’t make much sense, just from the development end. What they’re doing with [Vick] sets them up to move out either Donovan or Kevin Kolb. And if they believe Kolb is their guy – and I think they really do believe in him – then there is your answer.”

[Langlier]

Raider related or Rams related???

I can confirm we are in talks for McNabb - no word on what is being offered as they are doing the talking now...

[massraider]

Sal Pal said no deal has happened. But talks are happening now for McNabb and Kolb.

Said Rams, maybe Raiders, maybe Seattle.


Seattle?? :confused:

[doug7dust]

you guys are fucking idiots... you sit here and bitch and complain all day about jamarcus russell and a rumor comes out about us giving up a second round pick for perrenial pro bowl QB who gets his team to the playoffs nearly every year and you shoot it down? saying no way? 2nd round is too much? are you fucking serious?. a second round pick is a fucking small price to pay to get jamarcus out of here. Even if he stays he wont be under center. ANYTHING to get this guy out of our plans, I dont give shit just do it, we are a legit QB away from being a playoff team from what I saw last year when someone worth a fuck played QB in our offense. Just ask the Steelers and Bengals what this team can do with an actual QB. DO this shit now Mr Davis if your old wrinkely ass ever wants to see the playoffs again, you will make this move. You cant draft well in the first or second round anyways, pull the fuckin trigger already

[Jack's sore libido]

you guys are fucking idiots... you sit here and bitch and complain all day about jamarcus russell and a rumor comes out about us giving up a second round pick for perrenial pro bowl QB who gets his team to the playoffs nearly every year. a second round pick is a fucking small price to pay to get jamarcus out of here.

^ this ^

[massraider]

you guys are fucking idiots... you sit here and bitch and complain all day about jamarcus russell and a rumor comes out about us giving up a second round pick for perrenial pro bowl QB who gets his team to the playoffs nearly every year. a second round pick is a fucking small price to pay to get jamarcus out of here. ANYTHINBG to get this guy out of our plans, I dont give shit just do it, we are a legit QB away from being a playoff team from what I saw last year when someone worth a fuck played QB in our offense. Just ask the Steelers and Bengals what this team can do with an actual QB. DO this shit now Mr Davis if your old wrinkely ass ever wants to see the playoffs again, you will make this move. You cant draft well in the first or second round anyways, pull the fuckin trigger already

Switch to decaf, skippy. Only Vinny is against it, and we all know he is the (very) vocal minority.

[doug7dust]

I can confirm we are in talks for McNabb - no word on what is being offered as they are doing the talking now...

keep the info coming man, im awake now

[massraider]

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-eag..._the_table.html

McNabb to the Rams on the table
ORLANDO -- Donovan McNabb could be in a Rams uniform by the end of the day, possibly by the end of the week.

The Eagles have an offer on the table that would give them St. Louis' second-round draft pick (33d overall) in exchange for McNabb. That deal, however, is "not yet completed," according to a league source.

McNabb would be willing to go to the Rams if he was given a contract extension, according to a source close to the situation. He would not be willing to play for Buffalo or Oakland, two moribund franchises that might be willing to take McNabb without an extension.

McNabb has publicly stated that he wants to remain with the Eagles and retire with the only organization he has played for. McNabb released a blog post earlier today after coach Andy Reid said for the first time publicly that the Eagles were entertaining offers for McNabb and their three quarterbacks.

"I was asked to respond to statements made at the NFL owners meetings that the Eagles would entertain offers to trade any of their three QBs," McNabb wrote. "Here is my response: My position hasn't changed. I've said all along that I would like to win a Super Bowl and finish my career in Philadelphia.

"I understand the situation well and just hope whichever direction the Eagles decide to go in, they do it quickly. I think that would be best for me, Kevin [Kolb], Michael [Vick], the Eagles, and any other teams involved. No matter what happens, I've already begun preparing to have an outstanding season in 2010."

A trade could happen quickly.

The Eagles had no comment. Owner Jeffrey Lurie, coach Andy Reid and general manager Howie Roseman returned back to Philadelphia today after this week's NFL owners' meetings. Team president Joe Banner is still here.

McNabb, meanwhile, hasn't spoken to Reid in months, according to one source. While Reid said that the Eagles were listening to offers for all three of their quarterbacks, McNabb is the most likely to be dealt and be dealt soon. He has spent most of the off-season at his home in Arizona.

Rams offensive coordinator Pat Shurmur was previously McNabb's quarterbacks coach with the Eagles. Rams head coach Steve Spagnuolo was a defensive coach under Reid.

Posted by Jeff McLane @ 4:52 PM

[Postmaster]

I can confirm we are in talks for McNabb - no word on what is being offered as they are doing the talking now...

Let the biding begin......I wonder how much influence Nabby has in his potential destination?

[Langlier]

keep the info coming man, im awake now

i'm waiting for my guy to call me back if/when something goes down. right now... just waiting.

[Postmaster]

Moribund franchise.....wow. Nice kick in the nutz. :)

[massraider]

Morbid franchise.....wow. Nice kick in the nutz. :)

Yeah, maybe the one reason I am not excited about the chance.

I'd rather not force vets to come here, and watch them run first chance they get. Rather hope we draft better, and the team turns around with young guys that are still happy to be here. THEN it becomes attractive to vets.

[Postmaster]

Main Entry: mor·i·bund
Pronunciation: \ˈmȯr-ə-(ˌ)bənd, ˈmär-\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin moribundus, from mori to die — more at murder
Date: circa 1721

1 : being in the state of dying : approaching death
2 : being in a state of inactivity or obsolescence

[massraider]

Another Eagles homer mentioned 33rd and Atogwe for McNabb. We got nothing to compete with that.

[doug7dust]

morrison and our 2nd rounder do it!

[doug7dust]

id give up anything right about now to get a great QB here. if it took our first pick dunno bout yall but im doing that shit, would much rather have McNabb than Bruce Campbell or JPP

[Madturk]

McNabb would be willing to go to the Rams if he was given a contract extension, according to a source close to the situation. He would not be willing to play for Buffalo or Oakland, two moribund franchises that might be willing to take McNabb without an extension.



So the Rams in contrast are a dynasty?:pound:

[massraider]

So the Rams in contrast are a dynasty?:pound:

Nah, but there are former Philly coaches there. I dunno that any report about where he is willing to go is gospel, but if someone tells me Player X doesn't wanna go to Oakland, I am ready to believe it.

[Raidervinny]

I read it was a 3rd they were asking for McNabb. You wouldn't drop a 3rd on McNabb being with what we have at QB? I have high hopes for Grad but high hopes don't win games.

A 3rd? Maybe...but it depends what we do with our first two picks. If we address RG and RT then this makes sense. If we don't, then he will fare no better than Grads back there.

If we do wind up getting McNabb would that be the end of the Owens to the Raiders rumors? I know Davis doesn't put much stock in team chemistry but that would be a disaster.

[Raidervinny]

you guys are fucking idiots... you sit here and bitch and complain all day about jamarcus russell and a rumor comes out about us giving up a second round pick for perrenial pro bowl QB who gets his team to the playoffs nearly every year and you shoot it down? saying no way? 2nd round is too much? are you fucking serious?. a second round pick is a fucking small price to pay to get jamarcus out of here. Even if he stays he wont be under center. ANYTHING to get this guy out of our plans, I dont give shit just do it, we are a legit QB away from being a playoff team from what I saw last year when someone worth a fuck played QB in our offense. Just ask the Steelers and Bengals what this team can do with an actual QB. DO this shit now Mr Davis if your old wrinkely ass ever wants to see the playoffs again, you will make this move. You cant draft well in the first or second round anyways, pull the fuckin trigger already

Nobody's bitching...at least not me. My biggest complaint would be that, again, we are putting band-aids over our problems and looking to 're-load' rather than rebuild. We haven't shown yet that we have an actual plan in place. If we are going to draft a Trent Williams or somehow lucked into Russell Okung then this move would make much more sense. If we aren't, well, nothing will change...except that it will be McNabb leading us to a 5 win season instead of Grads.

We are NOT a legit QB away from being a playoff team. We are a legit QB, a legit Oline and a legit Defensive scheme away from being a playoff team.

[Langlier]

A 3rd? Maybe...but it depends what we do with our first two picks. If we address RG and RT then this makes sense. If we don't, then he will fare no better than Grads back there.

If we do wind up getting McNabb would that be the end of the Owens to the Raiders rumors? I know Davis doesn't put much stock in team chemistry but that would be a disaster.

i've heard nothing concrete that we are interested in owens. I think thats pure media speculation at this point.

[Raidervinny]

i've heard nothing concrete that we are interested in owens. I think thats pure media speculation at this point.

I know...I was just throwing it out there because I could actally see Al doing something like that just because he can.

[Jack's sore libido]

We are NOT a legit QB away from being a playoff team. We are a legit QB, a legit Oline and a legit Defensive scheme away from being a playoff team.

OK, but part of the OL is going to be addressed (it has to be, because Green is gone and Carlisle is 107 years old) and the defensive scheme is probably never going to be addressed, so there's no point in pining for that to change.

So at what point do you actually go for the legit QB?

Do you just never go for it because the defensive scheme?

And how much freaking rebuilding do we need to do before it's OK to go after the veteran leader at QB? The only players on the entire team who are at least 30 years old are the kicker, punter, backup tackle, backup tight end, Carlisle, Richard Seymour and Chris Johnson.

Seems like the rebuilding thing has been done. Now it's time to get those pieces we've rebuilt with working together.

[doug7dust]

OK, but part of the OL is going to be addressed (it has to be, because Green is gone and Carlisle is 107 years old) and the defensive scheme is probably never going to be addressed, so there's no point in pining for that to change.

So at what point do you actually go for the legit QB?

Do you just never go for it because the defensive scheme?

And how much freaking rebuilding do we need to do before it's OK to go after the veteran leader at QB? The only players on the entire team who are at least 30 years old are the kicker, punter, backup tackle, backup tight end, Carlisle, Richard Seymour and Chris Johnson.

Seems like the rebuilding thing has been done. Now it's time to get those pieces we've rebuilt with working together.

look at the run we had under rich gannon and he was not young when he got to oakland

[fade2black24]

Al Davis prefers veteran quarterbacks

[Raidervinny]

OK, but part of the OL is going to be addressed (it has to be, because Green is gone and Carlisle is 107 years old) and the defensive scheme is probably never going to be addressed, so there's no point in pining for that to change.

So at what point do you actually go for the legit QB?

Do you just never go for it because the defensive scheme?

And how much freaking rebuilding do we need to do before it's OK to go after the veteran leader at QB? The only players on the entire team who are at least 30 years old are the kicker, punter, backup tackle, backup tight end, Carlisle, Richard Seymour and Chris Johnson.

Seems like the rebuilding thing has been done. Now it's time to get those pieces we've rebuilt with working together.

I hear what you are saying but we have yet to see anything remotely resembling a long term plan in Oakland. Yes, we could use a good QB but I would be more excited about this possibility if we had shown 1) Any sense of direction last year. We did absolutely nothing in that draft to address the myriad of needs that this team has and 2) That we have a HC that can pursuade Al to let him do things his way (I like Cable but that's not who he is).

I would hate to see us trade for McNabb and then turn around and draft JPP in the first, Jacoby Ford in the 2nd and some DB in the 3rd. Unfortunately, that scenario is all too realistic. When that happens, we will all realize that McNabb can't help us passblock or runblock and that we are still no better than we were without him.

[Jack's sore libido]

But that's the same no matter who we have at QB. And those things you hate just aren't going to change, so what's the point?

[NIPS]

OK, but part of the OL is going to be addressed (it has to be, because Green is gone and Carlisle is 107 years old) and the defensive scheme is probably never going to be addressed, so there's no point in pining for that to change.



You get better with age- cuz you use to be a big pain in my ass - age comes with knowledge - welcome aboard

I wish some of you would read into what Libido has to say-- you may hate him-- but he's the best analyst on this board - he makes great points-- and I'm a fuckin hard head--

Now- you ladies gotta read what he said--- defensive "scheme" not defensive talent

And he's 100% correct - why?

Because he's referring to Al Davis

Read a little more into the posts ladies before you dopes go and blow a fuckin gasket

[Raidervinny]

But that's the same no matter who we have at QB. And those things you hate just aren't going to change, so what's the point?

My thoughts exactly, what's the point? All we would be doing is trading a 2nd for a guy on the last year of his contract and who would most likely not resign with us. Is that really the best move long term? Hell, I don't think it's the best move short term.

[Byron2112]

Hell, I'd give our 2nd and the safety of their choice, in a heartbeat.

[Langlier]

we've put up an offer of a something like a 3rd and a future pick based on pt. iggles didnt counter yet. nothing likely to get done today unless they make a late counter offer.

[Byron2112]

We could throw in Hboy too if they have need for an over-the-hill, male, cheerleader.

[Jack's sore libido]

All we would be doing is trading a 2nd for a guy on the last year of his contract and who would most likely not resign with us.

We've heard that song and dance before.

Remember how Eric Allen would never play for the Raiders?

Also, what are the chances you'd actually like the player the Raiders picked with that second-rounder?

[Byron2112]

We just need to get him in here so Al can run his magic on him... he knows how to make these players love him.

Prolly never even talked to Al before.

[Langlier]

We just need to get him in here so Al can run his magic on him... he knows how to make these players love him.

Prolly never even talked to Al before.

i've heard nothing official thats come from mcnugget - likely just a tactic for the iggles to drive his price up - lots of the "reports" i've heard smell of that.

[Langlier]

ok so the way this is going down is slightly interesting - al isn't at the owners meetings. but he's involved in this via phone to a rep (not sure who) and that rep is passing back info on what they want etc. al has called some philly representation directly and is hearing... different information on what they want. its kind of a clusterfuck at this point.

[Raidervinny]

We've heard that song and dance before.

Remember how Eric Allen would never play for the Raiders?

Also, what are the chances you'd actually like the player the Raiders picked with that second-rounder?

C'mon Jack...having a DB end his career with a crappy team is a LOT different that having a QB, who's career may be defined by his never winning a Super Bowl, end up on a moribund (dig that word) team. Do you really think that Donovan would rather spend the few remaining seasons that he does have on a team that 1) Can't keep him upright and 2) Doesn't have a hope in hell of reaching the Super Bowl? I know you like to be contrary but even you have to see that renting McNabb for one year doesn't do a damn thing for this team.

Probably about 50/50 that we would end up with a solid player...but if we do, we'd have that player locked up for the next 4-5 years. I'd much rather take my chances that we would end up with another Zach Miller than spend that pick on a guy that won't be here next year.

Look, I like McNabb and on most teams he would be an upgrade at the position and would likely give them a chance to make the playoffs. But we aren't most teams, we are the Raiders.

[Byron2112]

ok so the way this is going down is slightly interesting - al isn't at the owners meetings. but he's involved in this via phone to a rep (not sure who) and that rep is passing back info on what they want etc.

Kinda like Paul Cicero in Goodfellas? :D

[Crow]

Decisions made from desperation; no way to go...


Another ridiculous move in the making? Fucking christ. Surely not.

[Byron2112]

C'mon Jack...having a DB end his career with a crappy team is a LOT different that having a QB, who's career may be defined by his never winning a Super Bowl, end up on a moribund (dig that word) team. Do you really think that Donovan would rather spend the few remaining seasons that he does have on a team that 1) Can't keep him upright and 2) Doesn't have a hope in hell of reaching the Super Bowl? I know you like to be contrary but even you have to see that renting McNabb for one year doesn't do a damn thing for this team.

The big news is that he'll supposedly accept the Rams.... so.... WTH is your argument exactly?

[Jack's sore libido]

I know you like to be contrary but even you have to see that renting McNabb for one year doesn't do a damn thing for this team.

Who said anything about having McNabb for one year?

If I was going to trade a second-rounder for him, I'd be working on a three-year extension from Day 1.

Probably about 50/50 that we would end up with a solid player.

You think the Raiders have a 50/50 chance to draft a solid player in the second round? Really?

But we aren't most teams, we are the Raiders.

And my point is that with that attitude, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD MOVE.

It can't be done.

Why draft a player who's just going to want to walk as soon as his contract is up?

Why trade for anyone who isn't going to want to be here?

Why do anything since we're not going to be able to keep anyone upright and we're not going to be able to defend the run with this defensive scheme?

[Langlier]

i'll put this here

Donovan McNabb-QB-Eagles Mar. 24 - 8:16 pm et

Citing "several executives" around the league, NFL.com's Jason La Canfora reports that the Raiders may be the team in heaviest pursuit of Donovan McNabb.
McNabb would obviously be a huge upgrade for an Oakland team poised to start Bruce Gradkowski. However, he's not believed to be willing to play for the Raiders, let alone sign a multi-year extension with Al Davis' franchise.
Source: NFL.com
Related: Raiders

[SoCalRaider]

I've been secretly jihading for McNabb since last offseason.... Getting him for a 2nd would be a bigger steal than getting Seymour last year.

This is a no brainer.... He instantly gives us a passing game and a leader.... No offense to Grad... but I think McNabb would get a lot of guys to rally around him on both sides of the ball. He could get a lot of guys to finally play up to their potential.

I'd trade a 1st for him without batting an eye. A 2nd would be a steal.

[SoCalRaider]

And they said the same shit about Seymour not wanting to be here... and it turns out he grew up a Raider fan.

I'm tellin ya right now... Seymour's on the phone with McNabb right now.

Somebody have a McNabb jersey... I'm buying one right fucking now.

[system7]

i'll put this here

Donovan McNabb-QB-Eagles Mar. 24 - 8:16 pm et

Citing "several executives" around the league, NFL.com's Jason La Canfora reports that the Raiders may be the team in heaviest pursuit of Donovan McNabb.
McNabb would obviously be a huge upgrade for an Oakland team poised to start Bruce Gradkowski. However, he's not believed to be willing to play for the Raiders, let alone sign a multi-year extension with Al Davis' franchise.
Source: NFL.com
Related: Raiders

well fuck him then

but if Al really wants him, he will get it done and donovan will change his tune just like Seymour did. :spank:

[Crow]

I've been secretly jihading for McNabb since last offseason.... Getting him for a 2nd would be a bigger steal than getting Seymour last year.
Exactly what I'm afraid of.
And they said the same shit about Seymour not wanting to be here... and it turns out he grew up a Raider fan.

So did every other player who's signed with Oakland and been given their requisite talking points. :rolleyes:

Randy Moss was "committed to excellence" and "ready to just win, baby" when he was acquired. Words sure don't mean much, I've noticed.

[Crow]

well fuck him then

but if Al really wants him, he will get it done and donovan will change his tune just like Seymour did. :spank:

So Seymour signed a new contract? What did I miss?

[DarthRaidor]

I don't think The Eagles would go for this but if all they require is a 2nd, well how about we give them our 1st rd pick for McNabb and the Eagles 1st rd pick?

[CrossBones]

Al Davis prefers veteran quarterbacksAnd apparently he's been right. We suck at developing anything especially a QB. I stand corrected and check to the Dark Lord on this one!

We've heard that song and dance before.

Remember how Eric Allen would never play for the Raiders?

I used to think this too about players never wanting or willing to come to Oakland. Been proven wrong a few times. Money talks and Al is evidently a pretty good salesman.

And they said the same shit about Seymour not wanting to be here... and it turns out he grew up a Raider fan.

I'm tellin ya right now... Seymour's on the phone with McNabb right now.

Somebody have a McNabb jersey... I'm buying one right fucking now.SoCal back in the fold? :^

[Raider Bill]

I always thought McNabb would be more successful in an offense where he doesnt have to pass every down.


I like the move, but am hearing that there's no way in hell he'll play for Oakland.

[DarthRaidor]

I always thought McNabb would be more successful in an offense where he doesnt have to pass every down.


I like the move, but am hearing that there's no way in hell he'll play for Oakland.

Agreed. Part of the reason why McNabb is hurt so much is because of the pass happy offense in Philly. Don't know if that would change much here, but were a 9-7 plus team if we can swing this.

[Raidervinny]

Who said anything about having McNabb for one year?

If I was going to trade a second-rounder for him, I'd be working on a three-year extension from Day 1.



You think the Raiders have a 50/50 chance to draft a solid player in the second round? Really?



And my point is that with that attitude, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A GOOD MOVE.

It can't be done.

Why draft a player who's just going to want to walk as soon as his contract is up?

Why trade for anyone who isn't going to want to be here?

Why do anything since we're not going to be able to keep anyone upright and we're not going to be able to defend the run with this defensive scheme?

1) At this point in time the word on the street is that he won't sign a long-term deal with the Raiders if he is traded here. IF we do trade for him and we DO manage to get him to sign a long-term contract then I would say that the trade would look better.

2) Yes, I do believe we have a 50/50 chance of drafting a solid player with our 2nd round pick.

3) Get real, Jack. I'm not saying that there's no point in doing anything. My point is that until we stop spinning our wheels and making bad picks and even worse FA moves, we are better off not making a trade like this. It reminds me of when the Rangers signed A-Rod. It looks great on paper but the move made no sense when you factored in the fact that they still had the worst pitching staff and they repeatedly made horrible draft choices and they had no farm system to speak of.

I am tired of the Raiders making moves just to make moves. We repeatedly make trades and sign players with no thought to the big picture. The last time we did this with any success was when Gruden was here. If Al were to get a strong coaching guy (like Harbaugh) and allow him to build the team as he see fit then this would be a great move. But we don't have that situation here at this time.

[system7]

I don't think The Eagles would go for this but if all they require is a 2nd, well how about we give them our 1st rd pick for McNabb and the Eagles 1st rd pick?

throw in howard or morrison and i think that could work

[Jack's sore libido]

1) At this point in time the word on the street is that he won't sign a long-term deal with the Raiders if he is traded here. IF we do trade for him and we DO manage to get him to sign a long-term contract then I would say that the trade would look better.

Well, I don't think it's smart business to let "the word on the street" decide for you whether to make a trade.

2) Yes, I do believe we have a 50/50 chance of drafting a solid player with our 2nd round pick.

Ooooooooooook.

3) Get real, Jack. I'm not saying that there's no point in doing anything.

Sure you are, because the argument you're making can be made to oppose any move.

My point is that until we stop spinning our wheels and making bad picks and even worse FA moves, we are better off not making a trade like this.

Who gets to make that determination? Al Davis? Is he supposed to say to himself, "Self, now that we've stopped spinning our wheels, we can be competitive again. So I hereby give you permission to trade for a veteran, winning QB."

[Byron2112]

.

This is a no brainer.... He instantly gives us a passing game and a leader.... No offense to Grad... but I think McNabb would get a lot of guys to rally around him on both sides of the ball. He could get a lot of guys to finally play up to their potential.

Yeah... not an awesome QB, but another Jeff Hostetler.

[Armyr8rfan]

Well, here's how its likely to go down...McNabb would indeed probably not want to go to Oakland, and the Eagles org. owes him some loyalty. So, we'd have to overpay. I would trade, Russell, McFadden, DHB, Huff...for McNabb...our recent 1st round picks...Eagles couldnt pass our 1st rounder up...he'd come here, be a man, and play. Because he would get paid. I'd rather be here than Afghanistan this summer, but i'm gonna go, because its my job, and I will get paid. Same with him. .....So....Al.....please overpay for McNabb instead of overpaying for a first round bust....thank you...

[007]

Sign me up. I mean, we could get Mike Mitchell/Teyo Johnson/Thomas Howard redux, or we could get a 5 time Pro Bowler, top 10 NFL QB AND keep our first rounder.

I would give them 40, Mike Huff and Thomas Howard. Or we could swap first and second rounders. That equates to roughly a first round pick anyways.

[Jack's sore libido]

I just wonder what happened to the idea that bringing in a veteran QB, a proven leader and a proven winner ... might actually, I don't know, IMPROVE the team enough to make people want to be here, want to stay here, want to work hard.

Why wouldn't you want to make a move that gives players on your own team and free agents who might otherwise not come here reason to think positively about the team?

[Raider Bill]

At least our QB wouldn't be wearing (diamond studded) clown shoes.

[Crow]

1 year rental, people. Hard to get excited.

[007]

Throw on two franchise tags, and it's probably still worth it.

Hell if we can trade a second rounder for 8 terrible performances from DeAngelo Hall, I have NO PROBLEM with taking a shot on Donovan McNabb. He automatically makes us a better team.

[Crow]

Throw on two franchise tags, and it's probably still worth it.

Will there be a franchise tag with the new CBA? We don't know.

Even if there is, do you know what it would cost to franchise a QB twice? There's going to be a salary cap in place sooner or later. Giving a guy like McNabb a quarter of your cap space for one season is just retarded.

If Al can't bribe Seymour to re-sign, you're looking at a high 1st round pick and a high 2nd round pick traded for 1-2 year rentals. That is absolutely unacceptable, and it blows my mind that anyone could be in favor of such god awful team management.

Hell if we can trade a second rounder for 8 terrible performances from DeAngelo Hall, I have NO PROBLEM with taking a shot on Donovan McNabb. He automatically makes us a better team.

Yes, because pointing out an extremely stupid move justifies making a run of the mill stupid move. Not seeing your logic here.

An unhappy McNabb on a 1 year rental is not an upgrade. It does nothing but possibly impact New England's 1st round pick they raped Al for last year. Other than that, I just don't see an upside. Not unless more interviews on NFLN where he's asked about the miserable situation he's in, where he responds with a mocking positive spin, and gets a "Good answer! Good answer!" applause from Eisen and Deion qualifies as something positive.

Maybe just once the team could trade for someone with more than a year on their contract and maybe even work out an extension before consummating the trade?


I swear, this team's idiocy is boundless.

[MasterRaider]

I just copied this from an article on NFL.com

League sources indicated to La Canfora that the Oakland Raiders, Buffalo Bills and Arizona Cardinals are interested in McNabb. Several executives on other teams pointed to the Raiders as being in the heaviest pursuit.

WOW...Really? This would turn into a REALLY interesting season if we seriously trade for McNabb...this just came out of no where...well have to wait and see I guess...

[RaiderJF]

Let's see... would you rather have McNabb for a year or two or have DHB or JRuss for a career? With the way Al squanders his draft picks - especially early ones - might as well trade the picks away...

[Raider Bill]

What I'm hearing is not that he has to go to a contender, but he wants to go somewhere with at least a half decent offense... this is his FA year and he wants to showcase his talents.

[Crow]

Let's see... would you rather have McNabb for a year or two or have DHB or JRuss for a career? With the way Al squanders his draft picks - especially early ones - might as well trade the picks away...

Sad that the team has fallen so far that a post like this passes for sound logic.


I'd rather give the coaches a chance to persuade Al into drafting Zach Miller than wasting a pick on someone who's not going to be part of the team's turnaround.

[massraider]

Maybe just once the team could trade for someone with more than a year on their contract and maybe even work out an extension before consummating the trade?



Yeah, trading draft picks for rentals is the definition of spinning your wheels.

[SoCalRaider]

If Al can't bribe Seymour to re-sign, you're looking at a high 1st round pick and a high 2nd round pick traded for 1-2 year rentals. That is absolutely unacceptable, and it blows my mind that anyone could be in favor of such god awful team management.


Being in favor of bringing on the best offensive player we've had since Gannon, Rice, Brown and co retired is not in any way a show of support for Al Davis or the way he manages this team. You put a QB of McNabb's caliber on this team.... and we are a playoff contender over night. I don't see how anybody of sane mind or awakened consciousness could not be absolutely ecstatic about being a playoff contender in spite of Al Davis' outrageous mismanagement of the Raiders.

I'll never understand your love affair with Al Davis draft picks. Are you saying you would take dummy over Seymour? Or Fabian Washington over Seymour? What about Stanford Routt over McNabb?

Let's take a look at the decade of Al Davis 1st and 2nd round abortions... just for some context:

1st round abortions: DHBust, Dummy, Huff, Fabian Washington, Tyler Brayton, Gallery, Buchanon, Derrick Gibson..... McFadden..... Aso.

So out of 10 picks.... you have 8 misses, 1 to be determined (McFadden), and 1 great player in Aso. Personally, I would take Seymour over an 80% miss rate any day of the week. Maybe the more appropriate questions would be who in the hell would favor an 80% miss rate over a proven guy like Seymour.

2nd round abortions: Mitchell, Routt, Grove, Teyo, Walker, Jolley, Tuis..... Howard..... Miller.

So out of 9 picks.... you have 7 misses, and 2 solid guys.... Again, the numbers are brutal. I don't know how anybody would take a 75-80% miss rate over a proven QB like McNabb.... especially after what a guy like Favre showed a QB can do later in his career.

[SoCalRaider]

This is interesting:

McNabb would be willing to go to the Rams if he was given a contract extension, according to a source close to the situation. He would not be willing to play for Buffalo or Oakland, two moribund franchises that might be willing to take McNabb without an extension.

.
.
.

McNabb, meanwhile, hasn’t spoken to Reid in months, according to one source.

.
.
.

The Eagles are reportedly in search of a second-round draft pick for McNabb, but they may have to take something less with the list of potential suitors drying up. Early in the off-season they set the bar high. They were asking for two first-round draft picks and a third-round draft pick, according to a league source.

.
.
.

The Bills and Raiders, two teams in need of a spark, could be likely matches. They could trade for McNabb, who is the last year of his contract, without asking for an extension. If they wanted an extension, McNabb could simply refuse to negotiate.


http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/inq-eagles/McNabb_to_the_Rams_on_the_table.html

[Crow]

Being in favor of bringing on the best offensive player we've had since Gannon, Rice, Brown and co retired is not in any way a show of support for Al Davis or the way he manages this team.
Being in favor of dropping a high pick on a 1 year rental, however, is. And that's exactly what's being discussed here.

You put a QB of McNabb's caliber on this team.... and we are a playoff contender over night.
That's absolutely comical.

I don't see how anybody of sane mind or awakened consciousness could not be absolutely ecstatic about being a playoff contender in spite of Al Davis' outrageous mismanagement of the Raiders.

When McNabb learns to block and tackle, let me know.

Actually, don't. He'd just take those new found abilities to his next team.

I'll never understand your love affair with Al Davis draft picks. Are you saying you would take dummy over Seymour? Or Fabian Washington over Seymour? What about Stanford Routt over McNabb?

I'd take the opportunity to take a decent player in the draft over a 1-2 year rental on an unhappy veteran who has no desire to play for this shit team. Every single time.

Let's take a look at the decade of Al Davis 1st and 2nd round abortions... just for some context:[/QUOTE]

Or, let's look at the absolute lack of impact Seymour had. Let's look at his spotty play while at DE (save for 2 or 3 games). Let's look at the ridiculous notion that you can build a winner by forcing veterans to play out 1-2 year incarcerations on your team. Please, show me an example of when this has worked before. It hasn't. It can't. It won't.

A trade for McNabb is nothing more than a desperation move that's only tangible impact will be to send McNabb's career down the toilet. The notion that adding McNabb makes this piss poor roster a playoff contender is a trip to Fantasyland that mushrooms and LSD just can't compete with. Reaching .500 might be possible, but it would take some really good vanishing acts by the other teams in the division.


This Little Dutch Boy approach to team building is as fruitless for this team as it is hilarious to everyone else. But, hey. I guess desperation makes fools of us all.

[s.dot88]

I keep hearing the arguements against trading for mcnabb, but they seem to be coming from the people who tend to hate the way we draft the most. I understand that it's April and everybody has this sense of draft-optimism, but let's be serious; it's highly unlikely that any player taken in the second round could impact a team the way McNabb could

I'm not saying he'd come in and take us to the playoffs, but I'd bet good money that he'd make this team better than Russel/Gradkowski + a 2nd round pick

1-year, 2-years? Fuck, after 7 years of losing, all I want is a shot at respectability or at least faking the facade of a respectable team to possibly get some goodfree agents in 2011, at the very least.

Over the past few years, I've lost count of how many games have been lost SOLELY due to poor QB play. And how many times have we seen players throw in the towel midway thru the 2 quarter because of poor QB play? Those two problems alone have got to count for at least 4 or 5 games a year.

I'm not saying wanting mcnabb is the right answer or that not wanting him is wrong, but I'd willing to be wrong and lose a 2nd round pick rather than be wrong and lose out on a good qb for 2 years.

[BigTron]

Throw on two franchise tags, and it's probably still worth it.

Hell if we can trade a second rounder for 8 terrible performances from DeAngelo Hall, I have NO PROBLEM with taking a shot on Donovan McNabb. He automatically makes us a better team.

True. McNabb could QB this team better than anyone since Gannon. Is that not worth a 2nd? A 2nd we will shit the bed on anyway. Mike Mitchell or D.McNabb hmmmmmm? Id rather have McNabb running shit here for three years (2 tags at worst) getting us back to .500 than some wasted 2nd rounder and JR/BG/CF'NF.

McNabb has the best TD to INT ratio in NFL history or some crazy shit right? I would love an old vet like Donovan are you crazy! Our second round picks are usually more like 4th rounders anyway haha. Im doen aiming for the stars.. can we get back to .500 1st? Im tired of being the laughing stock of the NFL. McNabb may offer a chance back to repsectability. Sad thing is i would feel TERRIBLE for #5 if he got traded here. The guy deserves a few more shots a ring. He is NOT done.

Edit: The Eagles also mis-used McNabb. They passsed the ball WAY too much and didnt play D or ever establish a running game. Thats why they never won a SB trophy. The Eagles didnt have a problem scoring against the Pats either. Their D couldnt stop the Pats at all. Nobody seems to mention that or the fact that the Egales D was very good all year up until that game. People only mention McNabbs performance and him barfing haha. I watch alot of Philly ball and McNabb is scapegoated alot. He does have accuracy problems and skips some easy passes, but true Eagles fans remember who played QB after Randall C and it wasnt prety until McNabb. Andy Reid is a pass happy mofo. Bad match if you ask me. McNabb would be sick on the Vikings if Farve hangs it up.

[Raider Outlaw]

Trading for McNabb would be a great move. He's not an okay player, he's exceptional considering what he's done for that ungrateful Philly fan base and franchise. He has the best TD/int ratio in NFL history, and he has only played with Jackson, Maclin, and T.O. a total of 3 and a half years in an offense where he passes 65% of the time. No brainer to me. The Eagles brass have been reading too many of their own press clippings because outside of Elway, I've never seen a QB shoulder more of his offense's responsibility than this guy. Those dipshits must think QB's grow on trees. Had they actually gotten him a strong, imposing running game over the years instead of solely relying on a scat back as their running game, they could have easily won a Super Bowl already in that weak ass NFC that's produced Super Bowl representatives like the REx Grossman led Chicago Bears and Arizona Cardinals.

Hell, it took them until he was 32 before they finally decided they'd draft and develop the young receivers for him to work with. This is the same franchise that thought James Thrash and Todd Pinkston were starting caliber receivers for 5 years, lol. However, their stupidity would be our gain because I can't think of any player I'd want to hold onto a 2nd or 3rd round pick for over McNabb in this draft.

I've already said this off-season, unless we open this fall with someone other than our collection of misfits, we'll be in this same posiiton again. We've been drafting in the same place for 8 fucking years, we need a leader for this offense yesterday. Let Jackson sit down with McNabb and design a top flight offense with his strengths in mind, upgrade this line, and let's get back into the game. I'm tired of losing every fucking year. Don't you think trading for McNabb would fire up vets like Asomugha and Seymour, both of who aren't long for this team in it's current state? Shit get T.O. too if that's what it takes, they've been seen yucking it up this off-season. CAll it "unfinished business" or some shit in the season ticket ads. Tell Russell, he needs to take a pay cut or you're releasing him yesterday, Gradkowski is already undder contract, and cut Frye...simple. We could actually build something for the first time since the late 90's. Somebody get Al McNabb's cell phone number so that he can weave his voodoo magic that he seems to captivate people with when they talk to him.

[NIPS]

McNabbs always been one of my favorite QB's

However-- eh a 2nd? after furher review- not so sure-- much rather sit back and try and pry BigBen away from the Steelers

I think Grads has earned his right to start this year - McNabbs got a offseason home in Zona and ya gotta believe he's thinking Fitz all the way

[RaiderNationUK]

Trading for McNabb would be a great move. He's not an okay player, he's exceptional considering what he's done for that ungrateful Philly fan base and franchise. He has the best TD/int ratio in NFL history, and he has only played with Jackson, Maclin, and T.O. a total of 3 and a half years in an offense where he passes 65% of the time. No brainer to me. The Eagles brass have been reading too many of their own press clippings because outside of Elway, I've never seen a QB shoulder more of his offense's responsibility than this guy. Those dipshits must think QB's grow on trees. Had they actually gotten him a strong, imposing running game over the years instead of solely relying on a scat back as their running game, they could have easily won a Super Bowl already in that weak ass NFC that's produced Super Bowl representatives like the REx Grossman led Chicago Bears and Arizona Cardinals.

Hell, it took them until he was 32 before they finally decided they'd draft and develop the young receivers for him to work with. This is the same franchise that thought James Thrash and Todd Pinkston were starting caliber receivers for 5 years, lol. However, their stupidity would be our gain because I can't think of any player I'd want to hold onto a 2nd or 3rd round pick for over McNabb in this draft.

I've already said this off-season, unless we open this fall with someone other than our collection of misfits, we'll be in this same posiiton again. We've been drafting in the same place for 8 fucking years, we need a leader for this offense yesterday. Let Jackson sit down with McNabb and design a top flight offense with his strengths in mind, upgrade this line, and let's get back into the game. I'm tired of losing every fucking year. Don't you think trading for McNabb would fire up vets like Asomugha and Seymour, both of who aren't long for this team in it's current state? Shit get T.O. too if that's what it takes, they've been seen yucking it up this off-season. CAll it "unfinished business" or some shit in the season ticket ads. Tell Russell, he needs to take a pay cut or you're releasing him yesterday, Gradkowski is already undder contract, and cut Frye...simple. We could actually build something for the first time since the late 90's. Somebody get Al McNabb's cell phone number so that he can weave his voodoo magic that he seems to captivate people with when they talk to him.

Where as I agree that McNabb is a great QB and would do wonders here, he is on limited time with his career.

It's the age old reload and go vs rebuild. But I don't think this team is ready for a McNabb to step up and shoulder the offense on the premise that he will lead us to the promised land. He may be able to, but, what happens 2-3 years down the line when McNabb calls it a day? Who steps up then or do we just fall back to the arse end of the AFC West because we don't have a QB worth a shit?

McNabb woudl be nice, but, I think I'd rather put this on Bruces shoulders and see if he was a flash in the pan or if he could be the real deal. If he's the real deal then we can move forward with a young trigger man to anchor the offense for years to come.

Just my 2 pence.

[CrossBones]

I'd take the opportunity to take a decent player in the draft over a 1-2 year rental on an unhappy veteran who has no desire to play for this shit team. Every single time.That's a big 'chance' bro. No matter who we select you're going to complain that it isn't the right guy so taking a 'chance' on a first or sedond round draft pick over a proven pro bowl caliber QB isn't a good idea. McNabb would make us a playoff contender immediately. He'd be a huge upgrade over Gradbackup and obviously The Big Dummy or Frye. There is no argument on that. The whole "I won't want to go to Oakland" is another matter completely.

[YodasBeast]

McNabbs always been one of my favorite QB's

However-- eh a 2nd? after furher review- not so sure-- much rather sit back and try and pry BigBen away from the Steelers

I think Grads has earned his right to start this year - McNabbs got a offseason home in Zona and ya gotta believe he's thinking Fitz all the way

Is it a no mainly because it takes away from your Toby possibilities or because you really think that Grads is the answer?

[S and B Executioner]

you guys are fucking idiots... you sit here and bitch and complain all day about jamarcus russell and a rumor comes out about us giving up a second round pick for perrenial pro bowl QB who gets his team to the playoffs nearly every year and you shoot it down? saying no way? 2nd round is too much? are you fucking serious?. a second round pick is a fucking small price to pay to get jamarcus out of here. Even if he stays he wont be under center. ANYTHING to get this guy out of our plans, I dont give shit just do it, we are a legit QB away from being a playoff team from what I saw last year when someone worth a fuck played QB in our offense. Just ask the Steelers and Bengals what this team can do with an actual QB. DO this shit now Mr Davis if your old wrinkely ass ever wants to see the playoffs again, you will make this move. You cant draft well in the first or second round anyways, pull the fuckin trigger already

I gotta agree here.

McNabb would be an instant upgrade over any Qb we have on this roster or have had since Rich Gannon. Ahhh, yes, that Gannon. The one that came to us as a journeyman QB with little on his resume as far as a starter goes and who led us to two AFC Championship games and a Super Bowl. Ahhh, the same guy who instantly made our 4-12 team a contender and made our WR's, OL and RB's batter.

Well, McNabb is younger than Gannon was when we aquired him and turned out to be our best QB since Jim Plunkett. I'd make this move in aheart beat, even if it means giving up a second and Mike Bush!

[NIPS]

Is it a no mainly because it takes away from your Toby possibilities or because you really think that Grads is the answer?

Not at all- I give myself about a 2% chance I'll hear Tobys name come our 2nd pick - I'll be disappointed- But why stop now? We been sucking cock in the draft the last 10 years - I've become use to laughing when our card is submitted to the podium

Grads the answer?

Not sure - But I thinks theres a real possibilty - Toby or no Toby - theres gonna be a good player at 2 we could use -

Even with McNabb, 3 years hes got at most left-- he might take us 8-8 but lets not be gay into thinking he's gonna take us and win a SB in 2 years - Thats simply not going to happen

I'd hate to blow a 2nd rd pick, piss of Grads whos only on a 1 year contract - McNabb comes in- we win 8 games- miss the playoffs- Grads leaves next year - McNabb starts his 2nd year and we sneak in and get bounced in rd 1

McNabb starts his 3rd years - We miss the playoffs by 1 game- McNabb retires- are young guys are now hauling ass and were back to square fuckin 1 AGAIN in 3 years

Start Grads- give him a shot - If he faceplants - then by all means go hit the FA next year and get a vet QB - Or draft Zac Robinson in rd 5 and maybe he pans out his 2nd year if Grads fails

If we were a McNabb away from making a serious run - I'd say hell yeah-- fact is we aint -- If we were a 8-8 team, got bounced in rd 1 -- yeah-- I'd do it

Winning 5 games last year gives me no reason to think McNabb will just turn us into the Saints 2009 - wont happen

Only good thing I would see as a benefit with McNabb coming here is that---

We'd certainly get out from being the laughing stock of the NFL - and become a more respectible team

5-11 - 8-8. 9-7 no playoffs-- its the same shit

Like I say

1) Run the ball
2) Stop the run

And you get as many wins with Grads under center than you would McNabb if we dont fix those two areas

[Madturk]

Where as I agree that McNabb is a great QB and would do wonders here, he is on limited time with his career.

It's the age old reload and go vs rebuild. But I don't think this team is ready for a McNabb to step up and shoulder the offense on the premise that he will lead us to the promised land. He may be able to, but, what happens 2-3 years down the line when McNabb calls it a day? Who steps up then or do we just fall back to the arse end of the AFC West because we don't have a QB worth a shit?

McNabb woudl be nice, but, I think I'd rather put this on Bruces shoulders and see if he was a flash in the pan or if he could be the real deal. If he's the real deal then we can move forward with a young trigger man to anchor the offense for years to come.

Just my 2 pence.

I think I'm leaning towards this reasoning, especially in light of the fact that McNabb really doesn't want to be here and the whole contract situation. I certainly don't want a one year rental. I have no problem parting with a second round pick but I just don't see him being happy here.

[RaiderNationUK]

I'd make this move in aheart beat, even if it means giving up a second and Mike Bush!

Why, in a draft where we desperately need other positions do you wanna give us less picks and force us to draft an RB? Fair enough, if we need a QB, but the fact is we have 4 on the roster and who knows what we have at if we can keep them upright...

Give them the tools to succeed this year and if need be look for our "McNabb" next year.


Even with McNabb, 3 years hes got at most left-- he might take us 8-8 but lets not be gay into thinking he's gonna take us and win a SB in 2 years - Thats simply not going to happen

McNabb starts his 3rd years - We miss the playoffs by 1 game- McNabb retires- are young guys are now hauling ass and were back to square fuckin 1 AGAIN in 3 years


Exactly!

[NIPS]

I gotta agree here.

McNabb would be an instant upgrade over any Qb we have on this roster or have had since Rich Gannon. Ahhh, yes, that Gannon. The one that came to us as a journeyman QB with little on his resume as far as a starter goes and who led us to two AFC Championship games and a Super Bowl. Ahhh, the same guy who instantly made our 4-12 team a contender and made our WR's, OL and RB's batter.

Well, McNabb is younger than Gannon was when we aquired him and turned out to be our best QB since Jim Plunkett. I'd make this move in aheart beat, even if it means giving up a second and Mike Bush!

Gannon had an all pro OL - a great RB tandem in Whealty and Garner and Tim Brown and Jerry Rice

[BigPoppaPump]

I would love to get McNabb in a heartbeat.

He would improve our O a ton. Murphy would become that much nastier, as would Miller. On top of that, we could use that pick on a beast OL and pick up another vet and the O would be a ton better than last year. In fact, I would be willing to bet that we would easily be 7 points better than last year.

Picking up a stud QB like this as our division seems to be sliding....you never know what could happen.

I also think that Donovan's attitude would change once he played for a fan base that actually would be behind him.

Imagine being able to use McFadden as a Westbrook kind of player? Also, McNabb has the arm to actually maybe make a guy like DHB be worthwhile?

I think Nabby is tough as nails and could have a 5 year run left in him. JMO

[Crow]

McNabb would make us a playoff contender immediately.

Get back to me when you wake up from this daydream.

[NIPS]

Get back to me when you wake up from this daydream.

I dont think thats that far fetched

He'd get the Raiders 3-4 wins just by having him in the lineup

With him in Oakland - it'll be close to get in - they certainly wont have the divsion locked up by week 13 or anything

But damn sure close enough to get in

Close enough I mean by having things fall their way -- backing in if'n ya will- hell they won 5 last year -- McNabb could get them to 8-9 wins- absoluelty

But they dont have the team to "compete" in the playoffs

They'll be bitches like the Chiefs always are

Bounced out in rd 1 by 30 points

[DarkDays]

Get back to me when you wake up from this daydream.

nab will get killed behind our line, once again the cart before the horse. We need look no further than the jets for a blueprint on how to turn things around. They drafted and acquired a damn good oline and lo and behold they have an incredibly potent run attack and a rookie QB who out-shined rivers in the playoffs his first year. I know Al is snake bit from Gallary and grove but he needs to get over it and build the fucking line.

[DarthRaidor]

All of your opinions are well thought out and I agree with them but try and put yourselves in Al's position on this. How much time do you guys think Al's got left? 2 maybe 3 more years of life? He wants/ needs to win now. I'm sure that's where he's at so I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen.

[Jack's sore libido]

McNabb actually has the ability to avoid the rush, which is something Russell simply hasn't had.
So to say McNabb would get killed behind our OL (particularly given the fact that we don't even know what our OL is going to look like on the right side, as of right now) is jumping the gun.

[Madturk]

The good thing is that signing McNabb would most likely mean the end of the Ja Dummy era in Oakland as Al isn't going to pay him 6 mill to sit on the bench.

[Raider Outlaw]

The status quo at QB people are delusional. Have you been here for the last 7, 4-5 win seasons? Common denominator, even when we had a decent line those first couple of years...no good QB play, period.

Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit about the future. If we keep looking toward the future, it's going to be 2016 around this bitch. McNabb, a RT and RG in the draft, hell a trade for Justin Smiley from the Dolphins, this team can take this division next year, not in 2012, next year. It's time, I'm tired of this shit.

[Crow]

All of your opinions are well thought out and I agree with them but try and put yourselves in Al's position on this. How much time do you guys think Al's got left? 2 maybe 3 more years of life? He wants/ needs to win now. I'm sure that's where he's at so I wouldn't be surprised to see this happen.

If he'd kick over after this season, it'd be worth all the bad trades he could make.

[Crow]

The status quo at QB people are delusional. Have you been here for the last 7, 4-5 win seasons? Common denominator, even when we had a decent line those first couple of years...no good QB play, period.

Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit about the future. If we keep looking toward the future, it's going to be 2016 around this bitch. McNabb, a RT and RG in the draft, hell a trade for Justin Smiley from the Dolphins, this team can take this division next year, not in 2012, next year. It's time, I'm tired of this shit.

The common denominator is the owner. Let's just be honest.

Taking the division with no defense. Ha! Good luck with that.

[doug7dust]

looks the the 49ers are getting involved with this mcnabb thing and they have 2 first round picks...so if they are serious about him they would beat our second rounder with one of thier firsts. I dont give a shit what u all think, Al Davis will not draft someone we should in the first round so if it takes beating the niners to it with our first pick for him, im making this move now. I would much rather have a QB who is proven over Bruce Campbell or JPP. I would love to use the 8th pick on Trent Williams or Bryan Bulaga or even suh or mccoy if for some odd reason one of them fall, but reality is Davis is going to draft Campbell if we stay in rd1. If SF comes to them with one of thier first rounders, Davis has got to counter with either the 8th pick or our second and maybe Morrison or Howard, who have fallen out of favor here.

Dont get all crazy with me just a die hard raider fan who wants a proven winner over yet another combine hero

[Raider Outlaw]

How long have we been rebuilding man? I argued this very point when we drafted Russell. Outside of Snake, the Raiders have never developed a QB successfully. You worry about 3 or 4 years, in 3or 4 years. The Vikings sure aren't regretting bringin in Brett. Fuck who's feellings it hurts, they're not getting the job done, and I can't see them getting it done anytime soon.

If the CArdinals had that attitude, they wouldn't have been 2 minutes from a Super Bowl win last January. If we had that attitude 10 years ago, we wouldn't have had the only success that the younger cats have ever seen the Raiders have in their lifetime. McNabb is younger and more accomplished than Gannon when he came to Oakland, but you'd rather hold onto a 2nd round pick? Sorry, I'm all in for this move if Al can make it happen. No brainer.




Where as I agree that McNabb is a great QB and would do wonders here, he is on limited time with his career.

It's the age old reload and go vs rebuild. But I don't think this team is ready for a McNabb to step up and shoulder the offense on the premise that he will lead us to the promised land. He may be able to, but, what happens 2-3 years down the line when McNabb calls it a day? Who steps up then or do we just fall back to the arse end of the AFC West because we don't have a QB worth a shit?

McNabb woudl be nice, but, I think I'd rather put this on Bruces shoulders and see if he was a flash in the pan or if he could be the real deal. If he's the real deal then we can move forward with a young trigger man to anchor the offense for years to come.

Just my 2 pence.

[Jack's sore libido]

Well said, Outlaw.

We've done the rebuilding.

Robert Gallery, Mario Henderson, Thomas Howard, Trevor Scott, Kamerion Wimbley, Nnamdi Asomugha, Michael Huff, Tyvon Branch, Chaz Schilens, Michael Bush, Samson Satele, Darren McFadden, Louis Murphy, the great Nick Miller, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Matt Shaughnessy ... that's your rebuilding.

Now it's time to get these guys a leader.

[Crow]

Mortgage the future for a one year shot at reaching .500.


Y'all have at it. Desperation just doesn't suit me.

[Raider Outlaw]

Yeah, because the Chefs, Chargers and Broncos have great defenses. Ours is just as good as theirs, and that's all we need to worry about right now. A top 10 pass defense with some changes to the run defense can be fixed. That QB position is the disaster and ahs been since Rich Gannon cracked his neck against Tampa.


The common denominator is the owner. Let's just be honest.

Taking the division with no defense. Ha! Good luck with that.

[Langlier]

back to the grind today. we "should" hear something by Friday on a yay or nay. It sounds like Philly at least has the negotiators in a row today.

[RaiderNationUK]

How long have we been bringing in veteran FAs in the hope that this year is the year?

Gradkowski, Frye, Losman and to a lesser extent Russell... It's time to get these guys some protection.

At what point in the 2-3 years McNabb has left do we give him any OLine to make him an upgrade over what we have?

[CrossBones]

How long have we been rebuilding man? I argued this very point when we drafted Russell. Outside of Snake, the Raiders have never developed a QB successfully. You worry about 3 or 4 years, in 3or 4 years. The Vikings sure aren't regretting bringin in Brett. Fuck who's feellings it hurts, they're not getting the job done, and I can't see them getting it done anytime soon.

If the CArdinals had that attitude, they wouldn't have been 2 minutes from a Super Bowl win last January. If we had that attitude 10 years ago, we wouldn't have had the only success that the younger cats have ever seen the Raiders have in their lifetime. McNabb is younger and more accomplished than Gannon when he came to Oakland, but you'd rather hold onto a 2nd round pick? Sorry, I'm all in for this move if Al can make it happen. No brainer.REP.

Mortgage the future for a one year shot at reaching .500.


Y'all have at it. Desperation just doesn't suit me.Negative Rep.

[Jack's sore libido]

Wait, did you just put Gradkowski, Frye, Losman and Russell in the same implied breath as McNabb?

Look, we're not going to redo the entire line. It's not going to happen. So we can either get a good QB to work with Henderson/Gallery/Satele, or a bad QB to work with them. Myself, I'd rather have a good QB.

[RaiderNationUK]

Yeah, I guess you're right.

We signed Losman in the last few weeks of the season because 2 out of 3 QBs were dead, but to be fair it was their fault for not being good enough to get out of the way.

[CrossBones]

I don't see why we can't get McNabb AND continue to fix the OL. If Barnes works out as an average RT we might be a RG away from being adequate. Add McNabb with his mobility and experience and we might have the makings of something. Sure we're not going to have four pro bowl players on the OL like the Jets but who really has that in this league?

I agree, that at this point we'll worry about 4 years down the line in four years. Time to start competing. The rebuilding has been going on. The team is young and we need one or two vet leaders.

[Madturk]

Looks like the 49ers are making a strong push for McNabb as well.

[Jack's sore libido]

Yeah, I guess you're right.

We signed Losman in the last few weeks of the season because 2 out of 3 QBs were dead, but to be fair it was their fault for not being good enough to get out of the way.

Well, in the case of Russell, it was often his fault he couldn't get out of the way.

I honestly don't know who was at fault for Gradkowski's and Frye's injuries -- educate me, please.

But I doubt McNabb would have thrown three picks against the Browns -- even behind our OL.

[Madturk]

Lot of Iggle fans seem very happy to let him go.

[Rupert]

I don't see why we can't get McNabb AND continue to fix the OL. If Barnes works out as an average RT we might be a RG away from being adequate. Add McNabb with his mobility and experience and we might have the makings of something. Sure we're not going to have four pro bowl players on the OL like the Jets but who really has that in this league?

I agree, that at this point we'll worry about 4 years down the line in four years. Time to start competing. The rebuilding has been going on. The team is young and we need one or two vet leaders.

That's cuz the 2nd round pick was the only pick they allocated to OL this draft. :rolleyes:

[Rupert]

Lot of Iggle fans seem very happy to let him go.

He's never been able to take them over the top. They see him as the roadblock. They view his talents as a QB as being limited, and that's who they place the blame for their lack of a trophy.

[Langlier]

He's never been able to take them over the top. They see him as the roadblock. They view his talents as a QB as being limited, and that's who they place the blame for their lack of a trophy.

iggles fans have always had a skewed view of mcnugget - they wanted sticky ricky.

[massraider]

Lot of Iggle fans seem very happy to let him go.

Bill can probably give you a better assessment, he's in Eagle fan country (S. Jersey, isn't he?), but my buddy is a Philly fan, and I can tell you it's about 50/50. And has been since he was drafted.


I wouldn't read too much into Eagles fans reactions, there is no consensus, and they are miserable little fuckers on the best of days.

Rupert sums up the anti-McNabb bandwagon, they figure he never got them over the top.


My attitude about McNabb always was that he was very good, not elite. I also thought that no team relied on the passing game and the QB more than Philly, except Indy. And McNabb is no Manning. They had Westy, but he was about 60/40 receiving. Andy Reid has always chucked it around, and never got that team a bruising RB.

McNabb has wilted under pressure occasionally, but only Peyton has had MORE pressure since McNabb came into the league.

[massraider]

iggles fans have always had a skewed view of mcnugget - they wanted sticky ricky.

Yeah, I'm gonna throw the flag here for too many stupid nicknames.

[Raider Outlaw]

And you're taking their word for it? Some of those geniuses wanted Vick to take over last year, so you're not dealing with rocket scientists. A lot of those morons have very bad memories and don't recall the Randall Cunningham, Jim McMahon, and Koy Detmer eras. Bottom line, McNabb is this generation's Elway. Had his organization built their team to support him rather than look to him to be Superman, they'd have 1 or 2 championships already. Honestly, name a squad who had worse receivers, expecting to make a playoff push every year in recent memory. They got him one, and he took them to the Super Bowl.

Even now, those young guys aren't true number one receivers because Jackson is so small, and Maclin was still green last year. He still took them to the playoffs and racked up numbers. People are killing him because the Cowboys were a bad matchup for them, get out of here. Just because they're being stupid wouldn't stop me from fleecing them, cause I personally don't think Kolb will be half the player in this league. They've depended on Westbrook for half a decade as their main running back...that's crazy. Still he has gotten them close damn near half his career in probably the toughest town in this league to play in.



Lot of Iggle fans seem very happy to let him go.

[SilvernBlack]

If all we are looking for is to win our division I don't see any reason why Grads can't do that for us in our division. Personally I would rather have a QB who wants to be here and could be here for 7 or 8 years rather then one who would be here against his will and only for 2 or 3 years. If this team could run the ball or stop the run we would already be a contender and I am not just talking about for our division. I think we should give Grads a full year and see what he can do I am not saying he is the answer but lets find out first before we just let him walk. If he leaves us and becomes a pro bowler then you guys would be calling for Al's head for letting him go. We have to build our lines first on both sides of the ball. If we don't I don't see Mcnabb having much success here either. Just my opinion.

[NIPS]

Word is its all but over for McNabb in Philly- he's def going somewhere - word I'm hearing now are the Niners are making a strong strong push for the guy

[eleven]

Word is its all but over for McNabb in Philly- he's def going somewhere - word I'm hearing now are the Niners are making a strong strong push for the guy

That would be the best fit IMHO. They started out strong last year. They probably think he can put them over the top.

And of all the options that's probably his preference.

[DonkeyKilla]

i'm in if there's a deal in place with the trade- otherwise i'm against it.

[eleven]

Raiders interested in Frank Walker, Ravens CB. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Apznv8iYSGp3t8VGFhRdQmpDubYF?slug=nfp-source_frank_walker_drawing_more_interest_html-2010324&prov=nfp&type=lgns)

[Raider Outlaw]

Man, get your head out of the sand. Bruce Gradkowski isn't Rich Gannon. I know alot of you want him to be the next Gannon, but he ain't, he is a backup QB in this league. He had one good game last year. I'm going to be pissed the fuck off if the 49ers get this done, and we're still sitting here talking about Gradkowski and Russell this fall waiting on another 4 win season. None of these QB's on our roster are taking us to the playoffs next year or anytime soon. they're not good enough. You're delusional if you can't see that by now. This team went from 9 ppg with Russell to 15 with Gradkowski/Frye...fuck that shit. That isn't getting you shit but another 4 win season if you expect to go into the season pinning your faith on that. We've been doing this dance for damn near 10 years.

People act like a 2nd round pick would crush the draft, fuck that. We need a RT, C, and guard. I don't see those picks going too high in the draft often. We need a fat ass DT and a MLB. Unless you're getting one of those two elite DT's, everyone else between rounds 2-5 are interchangable. Man, wake up, we need a QB in the worst fucking way, and we can get a good one now.




If all we are looking for is to win our division I don't see any reason why Grads can't do that for us in our division. Personally I would rather have a QB who wants to be here and could be here for 7 or 8 years rather then one who would be here against his will and only for 2 or 3 years. If this team could run the ball or stop the run we would already be a contender and I am not just talking about for our division. I think we should give Grads a full year and see what he can do I am not saying he is the answer but lets find out first before we just let him walk. If he leaves us and becomes a pro bowler then you guys would be calling for Al's head for letting him go. We have to build our lines first on both sides of the ball. If we don't I don't see Mcnabb having much success here either. Just my opinion.

[Madturk]

Raiders interested in Frank Walker, Ravens CB. (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Apznv8iYSGp3t8VGFhRdQmpDubYF?slug=nfp-source_frank_walker_drawing_more_interest_html-2010324&prov=nfp&type=lgns)



The Ravens haven’t ruled out re-signing Walker, an aggressive, physical cornerback whose primary drawback is being prone to a lot of penalties.

Should fit right in:pound:

[Raider Outlaw]

Why would he? They just fired their GM and even with Al in the league, they've rivaled him as some of the worst ownership in football since York took over with the team.

McNabb would come here. Obviously, he'd rather play with the CArds, but they don't even seem interested, nor could they rival our compensation. Between us, the Bills, and 49ers, we're as good as those other two, hell he'd make the biggest impact on our team.



That would be the best fit IMHO. They started out strong last year. They probably think he can put them over the top.

And of all the options that's probably his preference.

[Langlier]

inching closer - iggles are holding out trying to raise his price - but the guy i spoke with is "confident" a deal will get done. no word on final compensation - but it sounds like one of our LBs could be involved.

[RaiderRobert]

inching closer - iggles are holding out trying to raise his price - but the guy i spoke with is "confident" a deal will get done. no word on final compensation - but it sounds like one of our LBs could be involved.

Please let it be Mo. At least Howard has some use...

[eleven]

Why would he? They just fired their GM and even with Al in the league, they've rivaled him as some of the worst ownership in football since York took over with the team.

McNabb would come here. Obviously, he'd rather play with the CArds, but they don't even seem interested, nor could they rival our compensation. Between us, the Bills, and 49ers, we're as good as those other two, hell he'd make the biggest impact on our team.

Sorry Outlaw, I'm just kinda meh about McNabb.

If Al signed him up I wouldn't complain, but it doesn't rock my world either...for all the reasons other people have stated.

Really, if he said he wanted to be a Raider I'd love the idea.

[Madturk]

inching closer - iggles are holding out trying to raise his price - but the guy i spoke with is "confident" a deal will get done. no word on final compensation - but it sounds like one of our LBs could be involved.

I have to believe it's got to include more than just one of our backers

[Langlier]

I have to believe it's got to include more than just one of our backers

when i say involved - that would mean they are included as part of a package. really i don't know for sure - this is mostly 4th hand info in this case

Original source -> my guys source -> my guy -> me -> you guys

[eleven]

Sorry Outlaw, I'm just kinda meh about McNabb.

If Al signed him up I wouldn't complain, but it doesn't rock my world either...for all the reasons other people have stated.

Really, if he said he wanted to be a Raider I'd love the idea.

Well maybe not love the idea but I'd be cool with it. I've just never been a big fan.

[Langlier]

OK gleaned what a deal might look like at this point

#8, Kirk, X(miscellaneous details) for
#24, McNabb, X

contingent on 2 things

1. Kirk needs to sign his tender and pass a physical
2. make sure mcnabb is at least amenable to signing long term or having a contract in place that lasts at least 3 years.

deal will happen by friday if it happens and there are no hangups. Bills, Jax, 49ers are also rumored to still be involved.

[scootertramp]

OK gleaned what a deal might look like at this point

#8, Kirk, X(miscellaneous details) for
#24, McNabb, X

contingent on 2 things

1. Kirk needs to sign his tender and pass a physical
2. make sure mcnabb is at least amenable to signing long term or having a contract in place that lasts at least 3 years.

deal will happen by friday if it happens and there are no hangups. Bills, Jax, 49ers are also rumored to still be involved.
I kinda figured they'd have to swap #1's to get a deal done. Raiders can't afford a #8 anyway! I'd take it if it can get one.

[Raider Bill]

Bill can probably give you a better assessment, he's in Eagle fan country (S. Jersey, isn't he?), but my buddy is a Philly fan, and I can tell you it's about 50/50. And has been since he was drafted.




You basically have

"Reid's an idiot"

"McNabb sucks"

and not a lot of middle ground. I can't help but wonder if there's a racial angle to it.. they still love Jaworski.

[Raider Outlaw]

It's times like this when Al comes in handy because he's one of the few owners with balls to pull the trigger on a deal like this.



inching closer - iggles are holding out trying to raise his price - but the guy i spoke with is "confident" a deal will get done. no word on final compensation - but it sounds like one of our LBs could be involved.

[RaiderRobert]

I kinda figured they'd have to swap #1's to get a deal done. Raiders can't afford a #8 anyway! I'd take it if it can get one.

I like swapping #1's instead of giving up a #2... Save money, get better value, and keep the pick.

So, who is looking good for a pick at #24 in the 1st? Changes everything for us. Also, wonder who the mystery person is to be included as well.

[Raider Outlaw]

Just a swap, even better. We could still get the DT or LT everybody is bitching about, and we wouldn't lose the 2nd rounder, which can be used to get more offensive line help. Please let this happen.



OK gleaned what a deal might look like at this point

#8, Kirk, X(miscellaneous details) for
#24, McNabb, X

contingent on 2 things

1. Kirk needs to sign his tender and pass a physical
2. make sure mcnabb is at least amenable to signing long term or having a contract in place that lasts at least 3 years.

deal will happen by friday if it happens and there are no hangups. Bills, Jax, 49ers are also rumored to still be involved.

[Madturk]

So what 3rd round prospect will Al reach for with the 24th pick?:p At least it won't sting as bad as reaching with a top 10 pick. Probably have an outside shot at Iupati here which would make sense.

[Raider Outlaw]

Shit going on what everybody wants you to believe, Bruce Campbell should still be there at 24.




So what 3rd round prospect will Al reach for with the 24th pick?:p At least it won't sting as bad as reaching with a top 10 pick. Probably have an outside shot at Iupati here which would make sense.

[Raider Outlaw]

Sounds like Al's the one putting on the full court press.


Report: Raiders in hottest pursuit of McNabb
Posted by Mike Florio on March 25, 2010 3:55 PM ET
For more than two months, the Eagles played it coy regarding the possibility of trading quarterback Donovan McNabb, hoping for an offer they couldn't refuse.

And then when the offer never came, they needed a Plan B.

Plan B has unfolded far more haphazardly, with coach Andy Reid publicly acknowledging that offers have been made for McNabb and then smoldering rumors of a trade to the Rams becoming a report from Jeff McLane of the Philadelphia Inquirer that the trade could happened by the end of the week, if not by the end of the day.

(The Rams strongly denied the report, and McLane has since backed off dramatically. But the damage may already have been done. We're hearing that McLane had been hoping to become the new Eagles beat writer for the Inquirer, replacing Bob Brookover, who now covers the Phillies. We're also hearing that the swing and the miss on the McNabb-to-Rams story may have kept that from happening.)

So if the Rams aren't doing a deal, which team will? Jason La Canfora of NFL.com reports that the Raiders are "in heaviest pursuit." Other possibilities are the Bills and Cardinals. (However, one media source with whom we spoke is convinced that Buffalo owner Ralph Wilson would never pay McNabb an eight-figure salary.)

Even though McNabb reportedly prefers Arizona to Buffalo or Oakland, the Raiders have shown that they're not afraid to trade for a reluctant player with only one year left on his contract. They did it last year with defensive end Richard Seymour, who now carries the exclusive level of the franchise tag.

So stay tuned. As explained in the latest edition of PFT Daily, we now think it's just a matter of time before the Eagles move McNabb.

[Byron2112]

As far as the 9ers are concerned, I'm sure Philly would much prefer to trade him outta the conference...

[DarthRaidor]

OK gleaned what a deal might look like at this point

#8, Kirk, X(miscellaneous details) for
#24, McNabb, X

contingent on 2 things

1. Kirk needs to sign his tender and pass a physical
2. make sure mcnabb is at least amenable to signing long term or having a contract in place that lasts at least 3 years.

deal will happen by friday if it happens and there are no hangups. Bills, Jax, 49ers are also rumored to still be involved.

Damn, when I typed this suggestion earlier I did it tongue in cheek. I didn't think it had a hope of actually happening. If it does, I'm all over it!!!

[doug7dust]

ive been sayin we should throw in morrison or howard lets go al do it

[Postmaster]

First rumbles of McNabb-to-Raiders trade terms emerge
Posted by Mike Florio on March 25, 2010 6:37 PM ET

Every once in a while, we develop a tipster who builds a track record of providing tips that end up being true.

And one of our latest tipsters who has been accurate with past tips (for the most part) has now given us a tip regarding the trade terms that possibly would send Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb to the Raiders.

Per the tip -- uncorroborated but nevertheless intriguing -- McNabb and cornerback Asante Samuel would go to Oakland, and cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha would go to Philadelphia.

We don't know whether an offer of this nature has been made. We suspect that the Eagles would, at a minimum, want to replace Samuel with Sheldon Brown.

Anyway, stay tuned. This is all uncorroborated, but we know that our friends in Philly are desperate for information, and that our friends in Oakland are desperate for hope.

[Postmaster]

RAIDERS EXPLORE POSSIBILITY OF ADDING MCNABB, T.O.

RaiderBeat.com Staff Report

A Raiders official called RaiderBeat.com to pass on a juicy little tidbit that piqued our attention. After dropping the phone, we regrouped and processed the information: We were told not to discount the possibility of the Raiders trading for Philadelpia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb and then signing free agent wide receiver Terrell Owens.

The official cautioned that it’s just a thought being bandied about at Raiders central right now but that it’s very real. It seems pretty farfetched until you break down the components.

The Eagles have tired of McNabb and want to clear the way for Kevin Kolb to take over. Trading for McNabb also would free the Eagles from paying McNabb a $6.2 million roster bonus in May. The Eagles also have Michael Vick on the roster, which gives them an experienced backup in case Kolb struggles as a full-time starter for the first time.

So, that makes perfect sense and seems rather doable. From there, the Raiders could give Owens the kind of offer he has yet to receive from any other team the first three weeks of free agency. The longer he goes without a contract to his liking, the more itchy he becomes to jump at the first attractive offer.

Raiders managing general partner Al Davis has a thing for receivers who have been productive over a long stretch, even if they do come with baggage. Within the past decade or so, Davis has signed Andre Rison, Jerry Rice and Javon Walker, to name a few.

Rison and Rice panned out fine. Signing Walker was a colossal mistake. Davis doesn’t care about past mistakes. He just moves on to the next bold move.

Trading for McNabb and signing Owens would pass as one of his boldest strokes, for sure. It would give coach Tom Cable a proven quarterback and a No. 1 receiver, something he lacks on his roster today.

Owens caught 124 passes for 1,963 yards and 20 touchdowns in 21 games for the Eagles in 2004 and ‘05, when he and McNabb were one of the top tandems in the league.

Talk about creating incredible buzz and excitement for the upcoming season. As it stands, fans are just about through with quarterback JaMarcus Russell, and they weren’t moved by the play of receiver Darrius Heyward-Bey last season. Trading for McNabb and signing Owens solves both issues with two strokes of the pen.

We remain unconvinced that this will happen. Just the same, the Eagles seem intent upon trading McNabb and Owens hasn’t received an offer three weeks into free agency, so it remains possible.

Perhaps this helps explain why the Raiders have been so quiet in free agency this offseason. Davis has been lying low, working the phones and waiting for the opportune time to strike. If so, this will send ripples through the league and Raider Nation.

[RaiderNationUK]

Per the tip -- uncorroborated but nevertheless intriguing -- McNabb and cornerback Asante Samuel would go to Oakland, and cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha would go to Philadelphia.


:shakehead: please no...

[system7]

Aso better not be part of the deal or i'll be pissed. Why not swap first round picks and give them either mitchell, huff, howard, or morisson and maybe another mid round pick.

[DonkeyKilla]

Al Trades Aso and drafts Haden?

[RaiderNationUK]

Al Trades Aso and drafts Haden?

you gotta think that is what's behind this. Al's gotta get his draft jollys off somehow!

[Raider Outlaw]

I'd still do the deal. What have you won with Asomugha on this team? He's a terrific player, but CB's aren't making you a contender. Plus, you get Samuel in return and keep the pick. hell, next year will probably be his last here anyway if shit doesn't drastically change around here.

People need to stop being in love with players, this roster needs to change for us to get where we need to be. Sometimes, you have to give something to get something. I like the first scenario better, but I'd still do it under the latter circumstances, too.

[Raider Outlaw]

In what world? He didn't run fast enough.




Al Trades Aso and drafts Haden?

[Langlier]

In what world? He didn't run fast enough.

he ran much better at his pro day (4.4 range)

[RaiderNationUK]

And what have Philly won with McNabb on their team?

[Langlier]

And what have Philly won with McNabb on their team?

the NFC Champ game?

gotten to it numerous times?

[RaiderNationUK]

Cool... Always the bridesmaid eh.

[Postmaster]

And what have Philly won with McNabb on their team?

Bro they have been contenders for as long as I can remember. We have been pretenders for as long as I can remember.

Oh what it would feel like to be playing for something in December.

[system7]

And what have Philly won with McNabb on their team?

at this point, i'm desperate for a winning season, a playoff appearance....mcnabb has done that pretty much every season he's been in the nfl.

[Raider Outlaw]

More than 4 or 5 wins every year. I think he's been either in the Super Bowl or one step from it half of his career, I'll take that one.




And what have Philly won with McNabb on their team?

[Raider Outlaw]

Guess you weren't much of a Stabler fan, huh?



And what have Philly won with McNabb on their team?

[Jack's sore libido]

Cool... Always the bridesmaid eh.

Better to be the bridesmaid than the ugly chick who isn't invited to the wedding at all.

[Langlier]

we've made contact with McNabb's agent from what I'm hearing. deal not done but still inching closer.

[Postmaster]

we've made contact with McNabb's agent from what I'm hearing. deal not done but still inching closer.

Keep the info flowing Bro........

[Raider Outlaw]

For Al to draft a CB that high, he has to have 4.3 type speed. They never even looked at Malcolm Jenkins last year, and he actually ran his 4.4 at the combine. I'd be shocked if he took him. You have to have the numbers, or Marshall's putting his ass on the line lobbying for that pick if it's made.



he ran much better at his pro day (4.4 range)

[TheNextStep]

I love Nnamdi. Everyone who has been posting with me for a while knows that, going all the way back to the build up the draft that year.

But...

I would trade him for McNabb & Samuel in a fucking heartbeat. You bet your ass.

[RaiderNationUK]

Of course I'd love to get a .500 at this point and even a playoff apperance would be nice. But not 2-3 years and then nothing especially at the expense of one if not the best corner in the game. That's even if he wants to come here, what if he comes here and pouts his way through his contract?

I'd rather turn this thing over to Grads who wants to be here and see what he can do with an improved line.

[007]

I love Nnamdi. Everyone who has been posting with me for a while knows that, going all the way back to the build up the draft that year.

But...

I would trade him for McNabb & Samuel in a fucking heartbeat. You bet your ass.

Didnt you pick him in the 2003 contest?

Some old school KFFL'er picked him and was mocked for doing so.

Eternal bragging rights, but I forget. (Maybe S&B Ex?)

I would make the move in a heartbeat, although it would hurt to lose a good soldier.

[Jack's sore libido]

For Al to draft a CB that high, he has to have 4.3 type speed.

Charles Woodson ran a 4.44 at the combine, IIRC.

[RaiderNationUK]

we've made contact with McNabb's agent from what I'm hearing. deal not done but still inching closer.

yeah thanks for keeping us in the loop man

[Postmaster]

Of course I'd love to get a .500 at this point and even a playoff apperance would be nice. But not 2-3 years and then nothing especially at the expense of one if not the best corner in the game. That's even if he wants to come here, what if he comes here and pouts his way through his contract?

I'd rather turn this thing over to Grads who wants to be here and see what he can do with an improved line.

I am a huge Grad supporter but Nabby is a sure thing that can turn this team around immediately. Can you imagine the energy from the young guys if McNabb is throwing for 3 TD's, 300 yards every other week? Miller makes the Pro-Bowl, Chaz and Murph probably triple their production from last year. The defense won't be on the field for 75% of the game and might actually get to defend a lead.

It is a no-brainer.

[Postmaster]

MoveTheSticksWhat's the over/under on Raiders wins if they get McNabb? I asked an exec tonight and he said 8-9 wins

[system7]

I am a huge Grad supporter but Nabby is a sure thing that can turn this team around immediately. Can you imagine the energy from the young guys if McNabb is throwing for 3 TD's, 300 yards every other week? Miller makes the Pro-Bowl, Chaz and Murph probably triple their production from last year. The defense won't be on the field for 75% of the game and might actually get to defend a lead.

It is a no-brainer.

i hear you bro but we must fix the LINE as well, McNabb would get killed behind our current line as did every QB last season.

[Postmaster]

i hear you bro but we must fix the LINE as well, McNabb would get killed behind our current line as did every QB last season.

We have to fix the line with or without McNabb don't we?

[Raider Outlaw]

You'd rather roll with a hopeful, never has been instead of a borderline Hall of Famer with at least 3-4 more years left in the tank. You'r crazy, man.

People were actually talking about Garcia being able to make this team a contender last year....well, McNabb truly can. Everything changes if we swing this deal. It raises our profile to being an immediate contender is our weak ass division cause the Chargers not only are losing pieces on defense, they currently have no RB. nobody is beating down the door to play with Gradkowski and definitely not Jamarcus. McNabb is a winner.

I think that's why they're talking to his agent. They need to hammer out the extension before making the deal. In addition, Samuel isn't too shabby a CB and only one year older than Asomugha himself. I'd hate to see him go because he's represented us nobley during the darkest moments of this franchise, but I want to win. Also, that contract gets outrageous after next year...he probably wouldn't be here past next off-season anyway if we still aren't a contender.


Of course I'd love to get a .500 at this point and even a playoff apperance would be nice. But not 2-3 years and then nothing especially at the expense of one if not the best corner in the game. That's even if he wants to come here, what if he comes here and pouts his way through his contract?

I'd rather turn this thing over to Grads who wants to be here and see what he can do with an improved line.

[jatfly]

I just hope we aren't dealing Aso. Other then that get it done Old Man.......!!!!!!

Then spend the first 3 picks on O-Linemen.

[Raider Outlaw]

He was the most heralded CB since Deion. Hell, he was the last defensive player to win the Heisman. I don't think he has those credentials to make up for that tenth of a second, lol. Like I said, I'd be shocked.



Charles Woodson ran a 4.44 at the combine, IIRC.

[Raider Outlaw]

Why does everyone act like we can't do both? The line needs fixing whoever the qB is. They need to spend the whole fucking draft on the offensive and defensive lines.




i hear you bro but we must fix the LINE as well, McNabb would get killed behind our current line as did every QB last season.

[brick]

McNabb, hell yeah, Samuels... well if that is what they are throwing in to get Aso... better than nothing.

His gambling style reminds me of DeAngelo hall pre Raiders. Sure he looks great in the Eagles Fire Zones, and in NE ever shifting coverages, but put him 1on1 all day the way the Raiders will and... well it is a good thing that the offense should score more with McNabb at the helm.

[TheNextStep]

Didnt you pick him in the 2003 contest?

Some old school KFFL'er picked him and was mocked for doing so.

Eternal bragging rights, but I forget. (Maybe S&B Ex?)

I would make the move in a heartbeat, although it would hurt to lose a good soldier.

That was me. I had us trading up in round 2 to take him, so I didn't nail the pick perfectly... but, yeah, Nnamdi was my guy. That's nothing compared to the guy who nailed a late 7th round pick on the money though. I forget who that was?

[CrossBones]

People need to stop being in love with playersAgreed. I am not in love with anybody on the team. Winning is just a little more important. Kirk Morrision? Fuck him. Aso...well if it helps turn the ship around and he has to be moved so be it.

Better to be the bridesmaid than the ugly chick who isn't invited to the wedding at all.Word. I'm worn out with the losing and the no hope option. Ha...yes we can. :rolleyes:

I love Nnamdi. Everyone who has been posting with me for a while knows that, going all the way back to the build up the draft that year.

But...

I would trade him for McNabb & Samuel in a fucking heartbeat. You bet your ass.Agreed. Can you please stop in a little more often?

[Raidervinny]

Why does everyone act like we can't do both? The line needs fixing whoever the qB is. They need to spend the whole fucking draft on the offensive and defensive lines.

Because we haven't shown that we are capable of doing that yet. I still don't trust this team to draft an OT or a G...at least not ones that can actually play. The draft will be crucial if this proposed move has any chance in hell of actually making this team better.

[DonkeyKilla]

Maybe we can get them to give us a RT or RG too? I thought they had an extra that was good

[Raider Outlaw]

They cut one of the Andrews brothers the other day. He's a head case and has a back problem. If the Raiders want him they can just sign him.



Maybe we can get them to give us a RT or RG too? I thought they had an extra that was good

[007]

Opens up the door to Darren Howard, Shawn Andrews and other FA's maybe coming here too...

It's a lot more appealing having a legit QB at the helm.

[CrossBones]

All this run the ball and stop the run is nice to talk about BUT the NFL has evolved into a passing league. I'm like to have a QB who can pass.

Hey that Gradwoski dude is prolly one of the "guests" reading this thread. Sleep tight grasshopper. :D

[Raider Outlaw]

So what does standing pat at QB have to do with drafting offensive linemen? We'll still need a RG, RT, and C regardless. I'd rather have a good QB to go with whoever they bring hin.



Because we haven't shown that we are capable of doing that yet. I still don't trust this team to draft an OT or a G...at least not ones that can actually play. The draft will be crucial if this proposed move has any chance in hell of actually making this team better.

[DonkeyKilla]

i would rather trade Aso keep our first and draft either OT, DT, or MLB at 8. Though maybe Aso might want to stay if we had McNabb

[Postmaster]

i would rather trade Aso keep our first and draft either OT, DT, or MLB at 8. Though maybe Aso might want to stay if we had McNabb

I would rather keep Aso, swap 1st rounders, loose Capt. Kirk and draft Iupati, Pouncy, Weatherspoon, D. Morgan, K. Wilson, Etc.

[Raidervinny]

So what does standing pat at QB have to do with drafting offensive linemen? We'll still need a RG, RT, and C regardless. I'd rather have a good QB to go with whoever they bring hin.

Until we show that we are committed to building this team the right way & are capable of drafting quality linemen then we are no better off then we were before. That line was directly responsible for getting not one but TWO QB's killed last year...and we're talking about two guys that were very mobile.

IF we draft wisely (oxymoron?) & address the line then this looks like a good trade. If we don't...then it's another stupid trade in a long line of stupid trades. As for me...i'll believe it when I see it...and I ain't holdin' my breath.

Criticise me all you want but we both know that we haven't done anything over the last 7 years that shows we are capable of doing the things necessary to make this trade a successful one.

[Raider Outlaw]

I don't think he's the one clamouring to get out. The Eagles might want him to complete the deal.




i would rather trade Aso keep our first and draft either OT, DT, or MLB at 8. Though maybe Aso might want to stay if we had McNabb

[Stanny]

Samuels in a "Man" defense:eek: Guy's been a zone scheming corner his entire career...I'm not saying he's Larry Brown but I would think we'd have to taylor the defense a little bit to fit his strengths which man is not one of them. I'd rather trade 1st rounders, and give up one of our LB's and keep Scrabble...

Grab Oline in round's one and two and then LB in round three......

[system7]

I don't think he's the one clamouring to get out. The Eagles might want him to complete the deal.

i think the only way eagles make the deal with us is if Aso is included otherwise they will go back to rams, the team McNabb apparently wouldn't mind playing for.

[Postmaster]

Report: Eagles want a top 42 pick for McNabb
Posted by Mike Florio on March 25, 2010 8:37 PM ET

As further proof that a trade of Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb has become inevitable, the Associated Press reports that the team will consider only an offer than includes a pick among the top 42 in the 2010 draft.

It's unclear why or how 42 became the cutoff point, especially since the 42nd selection, held by the Buccaneers, falls 10 picks into round two.

Under the official draft order, the Bills own the 41st pick, the Raiders have the 39th selection, the Browns hold the 38th pick, and the Redskins possess the 37th pick. (We'd be shocked if the Eagles would be willing to trade McNabb within the division, and there's no indication that the Redskins would want him. But, you know, Jason Campbell and Rex Grossman.)

It previously was believed that the Eagles wanted at least a first-round pick, possibly more. But with no one offering a first-round pick three weeks into the 2010 league year, the Eagles have had to relax their expectations.

Now that the cat is fully out of the bag, the Eagles might have to relax their expectations even further.

[Jack's sore libido]

Until we show that we are committed to building this team the right way & are capable of drafting quality linemen then we are no better off then we were before.

We're no better off with McNabb than with Russell?
:eek:
:confused:
:pound:

[Postmaster]

AP Source: Eagles want a top 42 pick for McNabb

By ROB MAADDI

PHILADELPHIA - Teams interested in acquiring Donovan McNabb will have to part with a high draft pick to get him.

A person familiar with trade discussions involving McNabb told the Associated Press the Philadelphia Eagles will only consider a deal for the six-time Pro Bowl quarterback if it includes a pick among the top 42 in next month's NFL draft.

The person spoke to the AP on condition of anonymity Thursday because the team doesn't comment on potential trades.

After months of saying McNabb would return for another year, Eagles coach Andy Reid acknowledged Wednesday he was listening to offers for McNabb, Kevin Kolb and Michael Vick.

Oakland, Buffalo and St. Louis are considered to be most interested in McNabb. Each team has two picks in the top 42.

It's unlikely any of those teams would give up a first-round pick for McNabb. The Rams have the first overall selection, the Raiders pick eighth and the Bills are ninth. In the second round, however, the Rams have the 33rd pick, Raiders are 39th and Bills are 41st.

A rumored deal that would've sent McNabb to St. Louis for the 33rd pick and safety Oshiomoghe Atogwe was strongly denied by several Rams officials, including coach Steve Spagnuolo.

The Raiders are now considered the front-runner for McNabb if a deal is made. It's still possible the Eagles would accept a pick outside the top 42 if a team sweetened the offer with other picks and/or players.

McNabb is expendable because he's entering the final season of his contract and Kolb is considered the quarterback of the future. The 33-year-old McNabb has led Philadelphia to five NFC championship games in 11 seasons, winning one NFC title.

McNabb had an outstanding season last year until the final two games — consecutive losses at Dallas. The first loss to the Cowboys cost the Eagles the NFC East title and a first-round bye in the playoffs. The next one came in the wild-card playoff.

[NIPS]

The Nips likes that deal - *raises eyebrow*

We aint done dick with Aso and to give up Aso for McNabb and samuel and keep our 2nd?

Gotta say -- I wouldnt hesitate to sign off on that deal

[Postmaster]

michaelombardiYou think the fact the Eagles want top 42 pick has something to do with the Buffalo is at 41 and the Raiders 39? I think so.

[CrossBones]

We aint done dick with Aso and to give up Aso for McNabb and samuel and keep our 2nd?Truth. Doesn't mean he's not a very good player it's just that we need more than a great corner to get this thing turned around.


Gotta say -- I wouldnt hesitate to sign off on that dealI'm for it.

[Raidervinny]

We're no better off with McNabb than with Russell?
:eek:
:confused:
:pound:

Russell isn't the current starter...Grads is. And no...with the way things stand at the moment McNabb isn't going to make much of a difference. Is he a better QB? Sure...no one is arguing that. McNabb by himself isn't going to tunr us into a contender...we'll still be picking in the top 10.

[Postmaster]

Russell isn't the current starter...Grads is. And no...with the way things stand at the moment McNabb isn't going to make much of a difference. Is he a better QB? Sure...no one is arguing that. McNabb by himself isn't going to tunr us into a contender...we'll still be picking in the top 10.

McNabb and Hue Jackson baby!

[Jack's sore libido]

Russell isn't the current starter...Grads is. And no...with the way things stand at the moment McNabb isn't going to make much of a difference.

:pound:

[system7]

if charlie Frye and Grad can have 300 yard games, think what McNabb can do...

think what it means for a locker room to know that you have a legit, pro bowl level QB

just sayin'

[Raidervinny]

:pound:

I agree...you have to laugh at this proposed trade. it's either that or cry. Glad you're finally embracing the harsh reality of this situation.

[Jack's sore libido]

I'm laughing at the absurd notion that McNabb isn't any better than Gradkowski.

[Raidervinny]

McNabb and Hue Jackson baby!

I like that hire. I really hope that we upgrade that line...i'd like to see what he could do with this team if we had a real NFL offense.

[Raidervinny]

I'm laughing at the absurd notion that McNabb isn't any better than Gradkowski.

There you go again...failing to actually read what I wrote. I said McNabb was the better QB. I also said that the way the team is currently constucted, McNabb isn't going to make much more of a difference than Grads.

I guess you'd rather look for opportunities to make snarky comments than take the time to actually read what I wrote. Yay you.

[NIPS]

Theres a counter offer to Al from the Eagles

Gotta believe this

And he's blowing a gasget like the whole stupid Hitler youtube thats been making the rounds

[Jack's sore libido]

There you go again...failing to actually read what I wrote. I said McNabb was the better QB. I also said that the way the team is currently constucted, McNabb isn't going to make much more of a difference than Grads.

If McNabb is better than Gradkowski, then the Raiders are better with McNabb than with Gradkowski.

It's not that complicated.

[Raidervinny]

If McNabb is better than Gradkowski, then the Raiders are better with McNabb than with Gradkowski.

It's not that complicated.

And it's not that black & white. Puttin a better player in the same horrible situation doesn't make us a better team. All we would be doing is upgrading the guy that suffers the season ending injury.

As usual, we don't see eye to eye...no biggie. At the very least you made my flight delay at the Ontario airport somewhat bearable.

[Raidervinny]

Theres a counter offer to Al from the Eagles

Gotta believe this

And he's blowing a gasget like the whole stupid Hitler youtube thats been making the rounds

Yo Nips...you got some inside info or is this just a feeling you have?

[Jack's sore libido]

And it's not that black & white. Puttin a better player in the same horrible situation doesn't make us a better team. All we would be doing is upgrading the guy that suffers the season ending injury.

But you can't wait until you sign an OT or draft an OT before you trade for McNabb. You have to trade for McNabb WHEN THE EAGLES WANT YOU TO.

[jatfly]

And it's not that black & white. Puttin a better player in the same horrible situation doesn't make us a better team. All we would be doing is upgrading the guy that suffers the season ending injury.

As usual, we don't see eye to eye...no biggie. At the very least you made my flight delay at the Ontario airport somewhat bearable.

Sorry Vin there is no doubt we are a better team with McNabb....a good qb can do a lot of things like read def better, get rid of ball quick, and those things are gonna make us better then with out him......its really that simple.

[BigPoppaPump]

Sorry Vin there is no doubt we are a better team with McNabb....a good qb can do a lot of things like read def better, get rid of ball quick, and those things are gonna make us better then with out him......its really that simple.

Not only that, he can communicate better and teach the young kids as well as read the D.

One other thing, he can have plays that include both sides of the field.


Honestly, I like the idea of Asante and McNabb with the draft of Joe. We'd have two corners that overall would be better than what we had this last season. We also appear to be actually looking at generating more pressure, which can make any corner look a little better too.

The overall facelift of this trade to our team would make it too good to pass up.

[TheNextStep]

Say what you will about McNabb, but the undeniable fact is that the guy is a real professional. Hearing boos at the draft... Rush Limbaugh... Terrell Owens... the guy handled it as a professional. It is also undeniable that the guy is more accomplished and decorated than any person on this team not named Richard Seymour.

Adding a guy like that to be the leader of the offense and the face of the team cannot be a bad thing... particularly when you consider that we're not talking about Emmitt Smith, the Arizona Cardinal... or Tony Dorsett, the Bronco... or any other guy who stayed until the wheels fell off. This cat was producing last year. This guy can still get it done.

You don't think a proven professional who has won multiple accolades and still produces on the field would be a good addition? You don't think that what he brings to the team in terms of work ethic and the way that carries himself would have a positive influence on a relatively young roster - particularly on the offensive side of the ball?

I completely disagree with anyone who thinks that. Like I said, Nnamdi is my guy and I think he's the best corner in the league... but if it meant adding McNabb, I'd have to let him go. I wouldn't be happy to lose him and I'd wish him all the best... but I'd have to let him go all the same.

[Rupert]

iggles fans have always had a skewed view of mcnugget - they wanted sticky ricky.

Just putting the ideas in their proper context.

[RaiderRobert]

If you had to choose, what would you give up? Our 2nd round pick or Nnamdi? I'd sure love it to just be swapping the 1sts plus Morrison, but I guess we have to give up more. Asking us to give up Nnamdi is a little much, and I don't think Samuels is fair compensation in return. But I sure would like to get McNabb at the right price... But he would have to have a long term deal in place. Otherwise, not sure it is such a good idea...

[DarthRaidor]

I like this deal either way it comes. Yeah I would hate to lose Aso too but having the best CB in the NFL hasn't helped us get past 5 wins a season for 7 years straight. Aso IMHO deserves a chance to win too and if he stays and we don't get drastically better soon, we'll probably lose him to FA after next year anyway. If we get McNabb, even if he wants out after 2 years he'll be pushing 36 which I doubt there will be much of a market for his services by then anyway if he doesn't kick ass while he's here. With this being Fatback's last year it means in a year at the most we would've been looking for a new q.b. anyway and if the team improves then it'll be a helluva lot easier attracting better talent than it is now. So I say.... get er done Al!

[Langlier]

other then PFT - I'm not hearing Nnamdi as part of this deal. I've heard 3 different things from pick scenarios

our first and morrison for mcnabb and thiers (plus some lower round swaps)

our 2nd straight up

our 3rd and morrison for mcnabb with an escalating pick next year (not to go higher then 3rd)

so far - thats all i've heard. if a deal is done - expect it to be done tomorrow.

[Postmaster]

other then PFT - I'm not hearing Nnamdi as part of this deal. I've heard 3 different things from pick scenarios

our first and morrison for mcnabb and thiers (plus some lower round swaps)

our 2nd straight up

our 3rd and morrison for mcnabb with an escalating pick next year (not to go higher then 3rd)

so far - thats all i've heard. if a deal is done - expect it to be done tomorrow.

I'll take option #3. Next years draft will be weak.

[Langlier]

I'll take option #3. Next years draft will be weak.

our third was what i heard was our initial offer to them. i'm expecting they balked at it. per the latest rumor (previously mentioned in the thread) they want a top 42 pick

[RaiderRobert]

our third was what i heard was our initial offer to them. i'm expecting they balked at it. per the latest rumor (previously mentioned in the thread) they want a top 42 pick

Switch 1sts and give them Morrison. Done deal. I'm not sure the point value difference from 8 to 24, but it has to be bigger than the point value for #40, right? But I am sure they want the extra pick, not the trade up. Come on Al, use the last little bit of your magic, and make it happen for the swap and Morrison...

[007]

Judging by the fact that Morrison hasnt even had any interest so far this year, and the Eagles have a better MLB on their roster in Stewart Bradley...

I doubt he's going to be s big part of this deal.

I say swap 1st rounders and throw in a conditional 2011 pick. If that doesnt work, I might throw in Huff as he would have legitimate value for the Eagles.

[massraider]

You know, it's funny that people won't want to give up a 2nd rounder for him. I mean, this is OUR 2nd rounder. Would you trade Mike Mitchell for him? If we gave up a 2nd, and got a 5th back, chance are whoever we would have taken in the 2nd would still freakin' be there.


I like both deals. Our 2nd for him, or Nnamdi for McNabb and Samuels. Nnamdi is a rental himself. Have to assume he moves on at the end of his deal. And we can't stop him, that's part of his deal. But if all it takes is a 2nd, do it. Everyone loves the idea of draft picks, but we are constantly disappointed. So fuck it, get a QB.

And McNabb doesn't just improve the QB position. He makes everyone better. The running game, Zach, Chaz. How much better would our defense have looked with 24 points on the board last year? And McNabb wouldn't be unhappy forever. He'd be playing for a fan base that would LOVE him, for the first time, and for a coach that runs the ball.

Give the team a little taste of success, and you'd see a better effort, all year long, from all the players. Maybe if it's only for two years, assuming we franchise him.

I am sooooo on board with this.

[Byron2112]

Switch 1sts and give them Morrison. Done deal. I'm not sure the point value difference from 8 to 24, but it has to be bigger than the point value for #40, right?

It's late 1st round value.

[Jack's sore libido]

You know, it's funny that people won't want to give up a 2nd rounder for him. I mean, this is OUR 2nd rounder. Would you trade Mike Mitchell for him? If we gave up a 2nd, and got a 5th back, chance are whoever we would have taken in the 2nd would still freakin' be there.


I like both deals. Our 2nd for him, or Nnamdi for McNabb and Samuels. Nnamdi is a rental himself. Have to assume he moves on at the end of his deal. And we can't stop him, that's part of his deal. But if all it takes is a 2nd, do it. Everyone loves the idea of draft picks, but we are constantly disappointed. So fuck it, get a QB.

And McNabb doesn't just improve the QB position. He makes everyone better. The running game, Zach, Chaz. How much better would our defense have looked with 24 points on the board last year? And McNabb wouldn't be unhappy forever. He'd be playing for a fan base that would LOVE him, for the first time, and for a coach that runs the ball.

Give the team a little taste of success, and you'd see a better effort, all year long, from all the players. Maybe if it's only for two years, assuming we franchise him.

I am sooooo on board with this.

Sho' nuff.

[RaiderNationUK]

I'm starting to warm up to this: Our first and morrison for mcnabb and thiers (plus some lower round swaps)

I'm not 100% on board because I think we need to find something longer term and FWIW I think we may have found him already, but I guess we'll never know will we.

Bottom line is, I want to get back to winning ways again and McNabb will at least drag us out of the 11+ loses pit we are in.

We won't see a Superbowl under McNabb, but, we may see the post season at a push.

[Limee]

Judging by NFL Draft Countdowns chart:

our 2nd round pick is worth 510 pts.

a swap of our first round picks is 660 pts which puts at the 28th pick in the draft.

Even if we have to throw in some extras then I really like the move as long as we can get McNabb on longer term contract.

[SilvernBlack]

I never said Grads was the next Gannon or anything like that. The only reason I am not big on the McNabb deal is because he doesn't want to be here. If he was to get on board and decide he wants to be here (like Grads does) then I wouldn't care. I wouldn't get excited or anything about it unless I felt we do more to build our OL but wouldn't be upset either.

I do think Grads could get us to the playoff but only because of how weak our division is. If we where in a stronger division would I feel that way no. But if it came down to just swapping our 1st rd picks and sending one of our LB over there it would be worth a shot whether he wants to be here or not.



Man, get your head out of the sand. Bruce Gradkowski isn't Rich Gannon. I know alot of you want him to be the next Gannon, but he ain't, he is a backup QB in this league. He had one good game last year. I'm going to be pissed the fuck off if the 49ers get this done, and we're still sitting here talking about Gradkowski and Russell this fall waiting on another 4 win season. None of these QB's on our roster are taking us to the playoffs next year or anytime soon. they're not good enough. You're delusional if you can't see that by now. This team went from 9 ppg with Russell to 15 with Gradkowski/Frye...fuck that shit. That isn't getting you shit but another 4 win season if you expect to go into the season pinning your faith on that. We've been doing this dance for damn near 10 years.

People act like a 2nd round pick would crush the draft, fuck that. We need a RT, C, and guard. I don't see those picks going too high in the draft often. We need a fat ass DT and a MLB. Unless you're getting one of those two elite DT's, everyone else between rounds 2-5 are interchangable. Man, wake up, we need a QB in the worst fucking way, and we can get a good one now.

[fade2black24]

After much debate, I am officially on board with bringing McNabb in. The guy has been a good quarterback in this league for a long time. He is a leader and I think he could do alot for this young team. I love Gradkowski but McNabb is far better a quarterback than Gradkowski will ever be. McNabb has the intagibles along with the ability. He can throw the deep ball very effectively. Our young groub of receivers will flourish with McNabb at qb. Look at how solid McNabb's numbers have been over his career. He has done so with far superior players at WR, much like he will have here. Really the only exception would be the last year with Desean Jackson and the years with Terrell Owens. I believe in the group of receivers we have but lets face facts that none of them are a true #1 receiver in this league. McNabb can get it done with these guys. With a few right moves (RT, RG, DT, MLB), we can compete in this league.

If we can score more points, I believe in Marshall's aggressive style of defense. I believe with the personel we have that we will get after the quarterback more. We need a pro bowl level competitor at QB. If we don't have it then we will continue to struggle. It would take a heroic effort week in and week out with Gradkowski at QB. Think about the wins Gradkowski was apart of last year (Pittsburgh and Cincinnati). Both were heoric efforts. I don't think you can expect that every sunday. The kid will get end up getting hurt and we will see Jamarcus again. Trust me, I am not getting down on Grad. I'm just trying to be realistic here. Grad is an awesome guy and real competitor but he may not be a consistent starting caliber quarterback in this league.

[Raidermania12]

The guy spreads the ball around like no other, McNabb would be great for McFadden, Bush, Miller, Schilens, and Murphy. They would all be targets and all need someone who knows how to get them the ball in space.

[Postmaster]

Vikings tops on McNabb's trade wish list

By Jeff McLane
Inquirer Staff Writer

If Donovan McNabb had his say, and he may very well have it, he would prefer to be traded to Minnesota.

After Andy Reid announced Wednesday that the Eagles were "entertaining offers" for all three of their quarterbacks, McNabb reiterated that he wants to remain in Philadelphia. But if the team were to ship its franchise quarterback elsewhere, the Vikings would be his first choice, according to sources close to the situation.

There are obstacles to this even remotely happening.

For one, the Vikings technically already have a starting quarterback in Brett Favre, and indications are that the 40-year-old is coming back for another season.

And even if Favre were to retire, a decision on his replacement isn't likely to be made until training camp - and the Eagles probably can't wait that long.

So in the meantime, the Eagles will solicit offers from other teams, most of whom McNabb has no desire to play for.

Citing a source, the Associated Press reported last night that in a trade for McNabb, the Eagles would not accept anything less than a top-42 pick in this year's draft.

Although he cannot veto a trade per se - there isn't a no-trade clause in his contract - he can refuse to negotiate a contract extension, and most teams wouldn't trade away draft picks or players unless they had McNabb locked up long-term.

McNabb, likewise, would want an extension. He is in the last year on his contract. But the 11-year veteran has reservations about playing for a losing team years from contending for a championship, according to the sources.

McNabb, who remains at his home in Arizona, is not talking about this matter. On Wednesday, however, he released a statement saying that he hoped "whichever direction the Eagles decide to go in, they do it quickly."

The Eagles and Rams had discussions, according to league sources, possibly involving St. Louis' second-round pick in exchange for McNabb. But those talks apparently have lost momentum for the time being. The Eagles had no comment and the Rams have issued a flat denial.

Oakland and Buffalo have inquired about McNabb, according to a Yahoo! Sports report. Reid said that he has received inquiries from teams not only about McNabb, but also about backup Kevin Kolb and third-stringer Michael Vick.

McNabb, though, appears to be the most likely to be dealt. If a deal were to be made, there is a large incentive to do it soon, considering that the college draft is fast approaching and McNabb is due a $6.2 million roster bonus on May 5.

Here's a look at the Eagles' most likely trade partners and whether McNabb might be willing to couple up with one those teams:

Vikings. Minnesota's recent success, its West Coast offense and the fact that McNabb once played under coach Brad Childress are all reasons why it would be the perfect match. Any discussion about a deal would be premature with Favre still in the picture.

49ers. San Francisco coach Mike Singletary has given Alex Smith the nod at quarterback, but that didn't stop the 49ers from acquiring David Carr, who previously backed up Eli Manning with the Giants. Neither quarterback could be labeled a winner.

McNabb would be open to a move to San Francisco, one source said. The 49ers, coming off an 8-8 season, do have two first-round draft picks (Nos. 13 and 16) and could use one to get him. But McNabb is unfamiliar with the 49ers' offense.

Panthers. When they released Jake Delhomme earlier this month, the Panthers seemingly had an opening at QB. But the team immediately promoted Matt Moore as the starter. That doesn't mean they aren't interested in McNabb. Carolina, though, doesn't have a first-round draft pick and may need as much to barter with the Birds.

St. Louis. The Rams probably won't make any final decisions about quarterback until they watch Oklahoma quarterback Sam Bradford work out on Monday. They hold the No. 1 overall pick in the draft and are believed to be interested in the former Heisman Trophy winner. If they aren't sold on Bradford they may look to McNabb.

McNabb hasn't completely ruled out the Rams, according to a source. But even the presence of his former quarterbacks coach, Pat Shumur, might not be enough to offset the fact that St. Louis is coming off a 1-15 season.

Bills. Buffalo coach Chan Gailey said at the owners' meetings that he was open to adding another quarterback, even though he already had three: Trent Edwards, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Brian Brohm. McNabb, however, does not want to play for the Bills. The only way a deal could work would be if Buffalo was willing to take McNabb without an extension and a loyal Reid was willing to send his first draft pick to a dilapidated franchise.

Raiders. Coach Tom Cable said that JaMarcus Russell and Bruce Gradkowski would compete for the quarterback job. He didn't rule out a trade, but he's not the boss. Owner Al Davis is. He traded for Richard Seymour last year without giving him an extension. McNabb does not want to play for the Raiders and would Reid be that cruel?

There were several teams that could have been trade partners with the Eagles, but each one has apparently taken itself out of the bidding with off-season acquisitions. Cleveland signed Delhomme, Seattle brought in Charlie Whitehurst, and Arizona, which already has Matt Leinert, inked Derek Anderson to a contract.

Jacksonville, Washington and Denver are teams with shaky quarterbacks, but have the support of their coaches at least for now.

All things being equal, however, McNabb would rather be in Philadelphia.

"My position hasn't changed," McNabb wrote on his blog. "I've said all along that I would like to win a Super Bowl and finish my career in Philadelphia."

[S and B Executioner]

Forgive em if this has been posted elsewhere, but PFT and other outlets are reporting that the Raiders will trade Namdi Asomugha to the Eagles for Donovan McNabb and Asante Samuel.

I dont think I am down with that deal, if it happens, I am kinda "meh" on it actually.

Thoughts?

[RaiderNorth]

I can't help but think this would be a good move.
My preference would be Morrison and a 3rd, but I'd take any of the other possibilities listed above. Swapping firsts and we would still have a good shot to move up a couple spots to take McClain. Replace Russell with McNabb and Morrison with McClain, than add some help to the lines ... almost too good to be true.

[Raidermania12]

Forgive em if this has been posted elsewhere, but PFT and other outlets are reporting that the Raiders will trade Namdi Asomugha to the Eagles for Donovan McNabb and Asante Samuel.

I dont think I am down with that deal, if it happens, I am kinda "meh" on it actually.

Thoughts?
It's rumor monger, Langs and and Schefter both said it doesnt make sense.

Also thats a shitty article, no quote anywhere that he doesnt want to play here. Just pretending he said it. Same with the Vikings part.

Also i think the reason the bills and raiders are front runners is because they dont want to help another nfc playoff contender childress connection be damned.

[Postmaster]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Two-teams-that-make-sense-for-McNabb.html

Why Oakland?

Let’s be up front and honest about JaMarcus Russell. He hasn’t shown us anything that provides hope or future consideration as a franchise QB. Head coach Tom Cable has given Bruce Gradkowski the opportunity to become the starter in Oakland this offseason because Russell has not shown he’s capable of holding down the role of a No. 1. Yes, Russell could surprise us this offseason and into training camp by taking control of this Raiders offense, but would you take that chance — again — while a veteran like McNabb is available?

With McNabb, you start to look at the Raiders as a serious competitor in the AFC West. Think about the young receiving corps and how they would respond to a veteran QB who expects them to be accountable and prepare and play like professionals. I like the Raiders because that they can run the football and play defense — complete with a front seven that’s vastly underrated. But you can never count on them because of the QB position. Would Oakland possibly be willing to trade a first rounder for McNabb? Remember, there’s a reason teams like to trade with the Raiders.

[massraider]

It's rumor monger, Langs and and Schefter both said it doesnt make sense.



PFT has broken stories before, not too smart to dismiss them out of hand.