View Full Version : Torry Holt and Tra Thomas
Raider Outlaw
02-08-2010, 06:58 AM
These two guys will be cut today. Do you think they'd be worth bringing in?
CrossBones
02-08-2010, 07:18 AM
After watching the Super Bowl and realizing how far the Raiders are from being worth a shit...not sure I care much anymore.
After watching the Super Bowl and realizing how far the Raiders are from being worth a shit...not sure I care much anymore.
Pretty much - as long as Jaba the Chosen is under center
I'll pass on both guys -- I dont want Holt taking playing time away from Murphy
DarthRaidor
02-08-2010, 08:04 AM
WTF do you guys mean no? A vet WR and OL and you guys don't want them? As long as they don't ask for crazy money, I say yes. Then again, now that I think about it, I might only go with TT.
YodasBeast
02-08-2010, 08:18 AM
Wouldn't mind Thomas being brought in for a look-see, but I think Holt has regressed to a #3 or 4 WR at this point in his career.
RaiderJF
02-08-2010, 08:26 AM
No interest...
Diceq
02-08-2010, 09:13 AM
Holt at the right price or did you folks forget how our WR groups when Schillens is hurt?
Thing about Holt is that most of career was on turf...Don't want a guy who may not have lost a step to start with...even slower...
but at the right price ...unless no cap...then no worries!
RaiderRobert
02-08-2010, 09:59 AM
Holt would be a good pickup if we could do a 3 year, small contract built around playing time and incentives. He is a first class guy, and would do alot to mentor and instruct our young WR's. Holt is the reason Mike Sims-Walker exploded onto the scene last year. Holt can still play, although he isn't a #1 anymore. I wouldn't want him stealing too many reps from Schilens or Murphy, but I would rather have him on the field than DHB. If Walker can't get on the field, just get rid of him, he is wasting roster space. Bring in Holt to finish his career and mentor our young WR's. I would say hell yes to that. Tra Thomas? Not so much. He would be a good backup, better than our current depth, but would he do it? I'm interested to see what happens with Khalif Barnes first...
Langlier
02-08-2010, 10:25 AM
Holt is hardly worth much on the field anymore. Tra Thomas might hold the job at RT down for a year but not much longer. I'd say no on both as there are better alternatives in FA.
Raider Outlaw
02-08-2010, 10:27 AM
I'm on the same wavelength with you on Holt. Our receivers all have ability, but usually the young guys learn best from est teammates. I don't buy this nonsense about him taking time from the young guys. Hell, if they're good enough, they'll beat him out, especially when they were a lot of the problem this past year.
Jacksonville is moving on because their young guys developed alot over last year, and Holt's contract doesn't justify staying with how much those players developed and where that franchise is (youngest roster in the league). I'd like to have that problem before proclaiming Schillens, Murphy, and DHB ready for primetime when they barely had 60 catches between them this year. We tried that shit this year and you see where it got us. He's a class professional from all accounts and has been part of a Super Bowl franchise that was awful for a long time (sound familiar).
Thomas, I'd like to get in to see if he can help out. He's always been a good pass blocker, which wasn't Jacksonville's preference, so his play there might have been misleading. We surely won't find 3 starting linemen in the draft for opening day, so he's one of the better options on the open market and should be cheap. Sounds better than this nonsense of depending on the Langston wAlkers and Kalif Barnes of the world to come through.
Holt would be a good pickup if we could do a 3 year, small contract built around playing time and incentives. He is a first class guy, and would do alot to mentor and instruct our young WR's. Holt is the reason Mike Sims-Walker exploded onto the scene last year. Holt can still play, although he isn't a #1 anymore. I wouldn't want him stealing too many reps from Schilens or Murphy, but I would rather have him on the field than DHB. If Walker can't get on the field, just get rid of him, he is wasting roster space. Bring in Holt to finish his career and mentor our young WR's. I would say hell yes to that. Tra Thomas? Not so much. He would be a good backup, better than our current depth, but would he do it? I'm interested to see what happens with Khalif Barnes first...
RaiderRobert
02-08-2010, 10:43 AM
Holt is hardly worth much on the field anymore. Tra Thomas might hold the job at RT down for a year but not much longer. I'd say no on both as there are better alternatives in FA.
Would you rather have Tory Holt or Javon Walker as our team's "vet wr" mentoring our young wr's? I know Walker restructured and has guaranteed money to be here or not. If there is a legit reason he isn't on the field at all, then give him his money and send him away. Holt would be a definite upgrade as our vet mentor...
Raider Outlaw
02-08-2010, 10:52 AM
REally? He's not explosive anymore, but he had more catches than our entire receiving corp combined in a run first offense. Sounds like an upgrade to me.
Holt is hardly worth much on the field anymore. Tra Thomas might hold the job at RT down for a year but not much longer. I'd say no on both as there are better alternatives in FA.
Langlier
02-08-2010, 10:58 AM
REally? He's not explosive anymore, but he had more catches than our entire receiving corp combined in a run first offense. Sounds like an upgrade to me.
he also had david garrard throwing to him instead of JaRuss...
could he help? certainly
but at his age he helps for a year or 2 at best.
think about it this way. he was the 2nd best WR on the jags last year... and yet they are releasing him this year. (I'd also take Schilens or Murphy over thier #1 guy Sims-Walker). He just has little to no explosion left. If this was 2002 and we had Gannon as our vet QB and were making a run? sure bring him in as a 3rd WR. But as is we need guys that can actually contribute in a few years not just immediately.
Holt is hardly worth much on the field anymore. Tra Thomas might hold the job at RT down for a year but not much longer. I'd say no on both as there are better alternatives in FA.
Yeah, that...
RaiderRobert
02-08-2010, 11:13 AM
he also had david garrard throwing to him instead of JaRuss...
could he help? certainly
but at his age he helps for a year or 2 at best.
think about it this way. he was the 2nd best WR on the jags last year... and yet they are releasing him this year. (I'd also take Schilens or Murphy over thier #1 guy Sims-Walker). He just has little to no explosion left. If this was 2002 and we had Gannon as our vet QB and were making a run? sure bring him in as a 3rd WR. But as is we need guys that can actually contribute in a few years not just immediately.
As I said before, he would be better for our young wr's than Javon Walker. For some reason, Walker is never going to see the field, Holt would. Kick Walker to the curb, pay him his money, and be done with him. Get Holt in here and for the next couple years (crucial years for our young wr's), give them a very good mentor to learn from and develop. And in case of injury to one of our top 3, Holt is not a bad backup to come in for a bit. He is a first class guy, with mad skills to teach, and is willing to do so. As long as we could get him relatively cheap, I would do it. If we were able to spread his cash out over 3 years, it would be feasible. And I am a big opponent to bringing in anyone over 30. This is a special case. And I would do it now before he gets any other offers to consider...
Langlier
02-08-2010, 12:41 PM
As I said before, he would be better for our young wr's than Javon Walker. For some reason, Walker is never going to see the field, Holt would. Kick Walker to the curb, pay him his money, and be done with him. Get Holt in here and for the next couple years (crucial years for our young wr's), give them a very good mentor to learn from and develop. And in case of injury to one of our top 3, Holt is not a bad backup to come in for a bit. He is a first class guy, with mad skills to teach, and is willing to do so. As long as we could get him relatively cheap, I would do it. If we were able to spread his cash out over 3 years, it would be feasible. And I am a big opponent to bringing in anyone over 30. This is a special case. And I would do it now before he gets any other offers to consider...
better then walker is subjective at this point. consider walker produced around Nil last season we could bring in Hank Baskett and he'd produce more then walker.
Just saying. I like Holt but the guy isn't the jolt that our WRs need.
Raider Outlaw
02-08-2010, 01:16 PM
Russell was bad this year, but you guys are giving these receivers far too much credit. We have one of the 5 worst receiving units in football and have had that distinction for years. potential doesn't count.
You'd like Schillens and Murphy over Sims-Walker? Well, that's you. Give me the production over potential, that guy can play. He's big, fast and explosive...their only other explosive offensive weapon besides Jones-Drew. Also, saying that Garrard was better than Russell isn't saying much. Hell, his HC sat on national TV last week and basically called him a glorified game manager, so maybe their numbers weren't all they could be because of him, not vice versa.
Jacksonville isn't keeping Holt because he's under contract as a number one receiver, which he's not anymore. I'd debate whether he ever really was one because he has never had elite speed to dictate coverage, but racked up numbers in that Rams offense, and his numbers dropped after Bruce left.
However, at the least, he's a tremendous possession receiver, something it would be nice to get in here since we haven't had one since the legends left.
Sure it would be for 2 years, but what has Walker been doing n the roster beside wasting space? We have 3 developmental receivers with little or no production in this league, and a guy in Higgins who will never be a consistent receiving contributor in my opinion. Holt can only help on and off the field. Unless it's Dez Bryant (I can dream can't I), we can't add another young receiver can we?
he also had david garrard throwing to him instead of JaRuss...
could he help? certainly
but at his age he helps for a year or 2 at best.
think about it this way. he was the 2nd best WR on the jags last year... and yet they are releasing him this year. (I'd also take Schilens or Murphy over thier #1 guy Sims-Walker). He just has little to no explosion left. If this was 2002 and we had Gannon as our vet QB and were making a run? sure bring him in as a 3rd WR. But as is we need guys that can actually contribute in a few years not just immediately.
Postmaster
02-08-2010, 01:25 PM
Also, saying that Garrard was better than Russell isn't saying much.
Raider Outlaw coming at you from Bizarro World. Again.
Raider Outlaw
02-08-2010, 01:34 PM
What the hell are you talking about? Do you have anything constructive to add to this discussion? If not, shut up.
Raider Outlaw coming at you from Bizarro World. Again.
RaiderRobert
02-08-2010, 02:16 PM
better then walker is subjective at this point. consider walker produced around Nil last season we could bring in Hank Baskett and he'd produce more then walker.
Just saying. I like Holt but the guy isn't the jolt that our WRs need.
Maybe I got it all wrong. Let me explain my thoughts. I am NOT looking for a vet WR to come in here and play. That would be grossly negligent spending. We need our money to go elsewhere. We are going to roll with our WR's that we have. That won't change. I want a vet to come in here, and teach these kids how to play, how to study, how to run routes, and how to catch the ball. Somebody to mentor them, develop them, make them learn faster than they are. And if that guy can get on the field every now and again, bonus. Tory Holt knows he is done, he isn't looking for another payday, he wants to keep contributing. He would be a perfect addition to our WR corps. I am not comparing him to Walker, really. Walker is a zero because he doesn't, and isn't going to, play. And I don't think he is half the mentor that Holt would be.
I think he could be had at a good price, for the next few years, until he is completely done. He would be a great fit for what we truly need him to do and to be.
Or, we could just forget about it altogether. I mean, Sanjay Lal is the best WR Coach ever. I forget how many SuperBowls he was in and how many Pro Bowls he was voted into... Dude is a STUD... Glad it is him teaching our young, talented, group of WR's...
Langlier
02-08-2010, 03:01 PM
Maybe I got it all wrong. Let me explain my thoughts. I am NOT looking for a vet WR to come in here and play. That would be grossly negligent spending. We need our money to go elsewhere. We are going to roll with our WR's that we have. That won't change. I want a vet to come in here, and teach these kids how to play, how to study, how to run routes, and how to catch the ball. Somebody to mentor them, develop them, make them learn faster than they are. And if that guy can get on the field every now and again, bonus. Tory Holt knows he is done, he isn't looking for another payday, he wants to keep contributing. He would be a perfect addition to our WR corps. I am not comparing him to Walker, really. Walker is a zero because he doesn't, and isn't going to, play. And I don't think he is half the mentor that Holt would be.
I think he could be had at a good price, for the next few years, until he is completely done. He would be a great fit for what we truly need him to do and to be.
Or, we could just forget about it altogether. I mean, Sanjay Lal is the best WR Coach ever. I forget how many SuperBowls he was in and how many Pro Bowls he was voted into... Dude is a STUD... Glad it is him teaching our young, talented, group of WR's...
If our WRs aren't developing it "is" the fault of the WRs coach. That said we got pretty decent rewards from a 2nd year 7th round pick and a 1st year 4th round pick. If he can coach up DHB this coming year then I see no reason to waste a roster spot on a vet. Hell bring Timmy Brown in for free to teach the kids how to study.
Langlier
02-08-2010, 03:04 PM
and I'm not saying we don't need a veteran presence... but lets get one that can play and that will be here for a while. I'd rather gamble on someone like Nate Burleson or even Donte Stallworth then pay Holt.
RaiderRobert
02-08-2010, 03:15 PM
and I'm not saying we don't need a veteran presence... but lets get one that can play and that will be here for a while. I'd rather gamble on someone like Nate Burleson or even Donte Stallworth then pay Holt.
Stallworth might be worth it. Wonder how he is doing these days?
It's all bullshit anyway you slice it
No vet WR is gonna come in here and win us anymore games than we are capable of winning anyways
Theres nothing wrong with Schillens/Murphy - Id take Mike williams from Syracuse in rd 4 - not fast but runs great routes and catches fuckin everything
How's about we fuckin lineup in a bunch formation every 2 fuckin blue moons eh?
Schillens/Murphy/McFadden on one side with DHB on the other one on one and let Miller block
Toss the ball to DHB downfield and see what he can do - oops-- thats right-- nevermind
How's about a toss to DMC in that 3 WR bunch and have him make a play -- oh yeah -- thats right-- we got stupid under center-
Never mind my post -- I was thinking to clearly
Stallworth might be worth it. Wonder how he is doing these days?
Browns make roster move (http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/article.php?id=10463)
The Browns announced Monday they have terminated the contract of wide receiver Donte' Stallworth.
Stallworth played one season with the Browns in 2008 after spending time with the Patriots (2007), Eagles (2006) and Saints (2002-2005). In his 11 games with the Browns, Stallworth made 7 starts with 17 catches for 170 yards.
Stallworth caught a 3-yard touchdown pass from Derek Anderson in the Browns' 23-17 win at the Jaguars on October 26, 2008.
Raider Outlaw
02-08-2010, 03:48 PM
REp.
Maybe I got it all wrong. Let me explain my thoughts. I am NOT looking for a vet WR to come in here and play. That would be grossly negligent spending. We need our money to go elsewhere. We are going to roll with our WR's that we have. That won't change. I want a vet to come in here, and teach these kids how to play, how to study, how to run routes, and how to catch the ball. Somebody to mentor them, develop them, make them learn faster than they are. And if that guy can get on the field every now and again, bonus. Tory Holt knows he is done, he isn't looking for another payday, he wants to keep contributing. He would be a perfect addition to our WR corps. I am not comparing him to Walker, really. Walker is a zero because he doesn't, and isn't going to, play. And I don't think he is half the mentor that Holt would be.
I think he could be had at a good price, for the next few years, until he is completely done. He would be a great fit for what we truly need him to do and to be.
Or, we could just forget about it altogether. I mean, Sanjay Lal is the best WR Coach ever. I forget how many SuperBowls he was in and how many Pro Bowls he was voted into... Dude is a STUD... Glad it is him teaching our young, talented, group of WR's...
Raider Outlaw
02-08-2010, 04:00 PM
Did you see the Seahawks and Jags play this past year. I'd still argue that Holt is better even at his diminished state. Burleson has an extensive injury history himself and has never been that good for me to consider him for the mentor role. Maybe if the Seahawks cut Deion Branch loose, I'd be more inclined to go with that one.
Stallworth, I wouldn't be opposed to, but he's never been that great in this league for me to justify him as the mentor veteran receiver for the roster. We need more leaders on this team that have been on top before, especially on offense. Seymour and Ellis had a good effect on the younger guys on their side of the ball, we need the same on offense.
and I'm not saying we don't need a veteran presence... but lets get one that can play and that will be here for a while. I'd rather gamble on someone like Nate Burleson or even Donte Stallworth then pay Holt.
PDX Raider
02-08-2010, 04:34 PM
Put me in the don't sign those guys camp. Young receivers get better w/ two things: reps and good QB play. Jerry Porter played with two of the best ever here and never realized his potential, b/c he was a surly undisciplined player with a sense of entitlement. Young receivers on other teams thrive w/o "veteran presences" all the time. I think if you look at this roster, there are two potentially very good WRs- in Murphy and Schillens. These guys will get better with more experience and anyone other than the Russell as QB. DHB will only get better by spending every fucking day of the offseason in front of a jugs machine.
My view of free agency is go after guys who are relatively young and who can produce for you unless you're a Superbowl contender looking for a missing piece. We know the Raiders aren't the latter. Veteran leadership is over-rated. Production is not. As Tra and Holt no longer produce, their value is minimal at this point. And for what it's worth, it's not quite fair to blame Lal for the deficiencies at that position. We had a young inexperienced group who had terrible quarterback play for most of the season. It's not all on him. These guys will get better. I could live w/ two very good WRs who can get 50-60 catches, with Miller nabbing another 70. This position is not a worry. And enough w/ re-tread tackles. Stop f-in around and draft a stud and forget about it for 7 years.
PDX
Nope on both guys, personally.
I don't want Holt taking snaps from Murphy/Schilens or DHB (I know, I know).
Tra Thomas is finished. If he wasnt finished, he wouldnt have been backing up two rookie tackles who become the two statistically worst bookends in the league last year. Britton and Monroe were damn shaky last year. Its expected for rookies, but still you would figure he could have made some noise on that team.
Stanny
02-09-2010, 09:02 AM
If Tory Holt is going to come in and "mentor" wide receivers, he's not going to do it for a losing squad like ours who's in complete dissaray. He's a friggen all pro and he's playing to win a championship not collect dollars. Thats not going to happen in Oakland. He's too proud to ride the pine let alone for a team with no QB and who plans on going 5-12 again.
He'll end up in Chicago with Martz or maybe even in Denver....Get 15 snaps a game, be brought in for 1st down conversions and perhaps be a target for the red zone. Sorry guys, no way would Holt come here.
RaiderJF
02-09-2010, 09:41 AM
Just not a good fit. This team is invested in its young players which must be developed. Already a shortage of wr snaps for Schilens and Murohy with DHB in the picture... and we know crazy Al is going to force DHB's snaps...
DonkeyKilla
02-09-2010, 04:38 PM
i would give Stallworth a shot at redeeming himself and resurrecting his career if he was willing to do it at league minimum.
Random Dude
02-09-2010, 04:48 PM
i would give Stallworth a shot at redeeming himself and resurrecting his career if he was willing to do it at league minimum.
I second that motion.
fade2black24
02-10-2010, 04:42 PM
I'd love to see us bring in Stallworth. The guy fits into our philosophy on offense. The man is a playmaker. He could give us a couple of good seasons. Definitely an upgrade and insurance in case of injury. Depth is very important, especially with so many question marks at wide receiver.
DarthRaidor
02-10-2010, 04:52 PM
No to Stallworth. Just coming off a drunk driving/ manslaughter conviction plus that hamstring injury that recurres every year he's been in the league. I like the talent but what good is it to bring in a guy and have him on the bench for a significant part of the year? I know his price tag is way lower than Javon's but essentially your getting the same player. Pass please.
Major durability issues and far from what you'd consider reliable. Stallworth is fool's gold at best.
Diceq
02-11-2010, 01:23 PM
If the cap is gone, why worry about the price? Holt and Stallworth should be evaluated on merits.
Cap or not, I want us to keep Kirk, Jano, Howard and Seymour...although a transitional tag on 92 would be an interesting move.
Louis Murphy is the best WR we've had since Tim Brown
Dudes got a big NFL future--- runs great routes, great hands- he's pumped up'd every time he catches a pass and works it
But it'd figure Al would take an up an coming WR in the NFL and bench him for a 40 year old
If the cap is gone, why worry about the price? Holt and Stallworth should be evaluated on merits.
Cap or not, I want us to keep Kirk, Jano, Howard and Seymour...although a transitional tag on 92 would be an interesting move.
1. What "merits" does Stallworth have exactly?
2. Why on earth would you want to keep Kirk Morrison?
Random Dude
02-11-2010, 08:53 PM
1. What "merits" does Stallworth have exactly?
2. Why on earth would you want to keep Kirk Morrison?
Let me answer #2.
We have no other options right now, unless one is drafted (unlikely IMHO). Free agents will be hard to come by. Thus, I think Morrison will be back by default.
I'm fine with Morrison coming back.
Just not as a starter.
He's an Oakland guy, loves the team, works hard, is durable and a leader. Good in the community, clean off the field.
Just not a good player, in all honesty. A fringe starter who got pumped up too hard by the fans.
Let me answer #2.
We have no other options right now, unless one is drafted (unlikely IMHO). Free agents will be hard to come by. Thus, I think Morrison will be back by default.
This isn't about whether we think he'll be back. Dude actually wants Morrison back. Personally, I'm bored with all these soft players. Take a chance on someone with some ass to him.
I'm fine with Morrison coming back.
Just not as a starter.
He's an Oakland guy, loves the team, works hard, is durable and a leader. Good in the community, clean off the field.
Just not a good player, in all honesty. A fringe starter who got pumped up too hard by the fans.
I rest my case.
Postmaster
02-12-2010, 07:38 PM
Holt is lobbying to play with Martz in Chicago.
I can't see him making a conscious decision to play here. How bad would that suck to end your career on the Raider's bench? i.e. Javon Walker
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