What is the Raiders BIGGEST need? [Archive]

Rupert

12-29-2005, 03:59 PM

Where is OL?!?!?!

Give me a right tackle or right guard. When Walker comes back he'll be the other one. Grove back at center Gallery at LT and Sims at LG. Kick them in the ass and get this thing jumpin again.

I think the DL is good, a little old around the edges, but good. Sands is coming on bigtime. Kelly can play inside and out really well. Antajj Hawthorne will need to find a role, but I think he'll get some PT. Burgess is great. Brayton can do a good job in a DE rotation with Burgess. It would be nice to leave Kelly out at DE (or 5 technique DT - long story) what some call the base end. But with Sappington and Washington getting old he's going to have to move in at some point. We could go after a starting DE in the draft, but people looking at Kiwi are looking in the wrong direction, he's too freaking small to be a base end. Mario Williams is the right guy for the role, and I might jump at the chance to draft him, but I don't think that position is an immediate need. We can survive another season without a major infusion.

The Raider D made a nickel work pretty well as a base defense this season, and if necessary, could do it again next season. But my #2 NEED position is OLB. I know there are supposedly a LOT of guys available there, so let's get two, we're short at least that many.

Don't even talk to me about safety. Stu is ready. Not great, but improving. I'd take gibson back the way we were using the SS this season, and Cooper did a decent job in that same role. Gibson would be an improvement over Cooper though only slightly because of his size and speed. Cooper was better at taking on blockers and tackling while Gibson was better at manning up in pass defense. Neither guy made me hapy with their zone skills. An upgrade here is needed, but 3rd round is the earliest I would go.

I'd probably draft: best OL, best OLB, and another OLB before I'd go safety.
Alternately: I'd go DE (Williams), OLB, OG if I could grab a FA OT/OG. And thinking about it, I'd probably prefer to do it that way.

RaiderIVlife

12-29-2005, 04:08 PM

Good topic.

You know, even though I personally believe that the offensive line is the single biggest reason that this team stinks, and even though I also believe that you can NEVER have enough good defensive lineman, after much consieration......I'll say QB.

Again, I think Kerry Collins has been, to a large extent, a victim of poor circumstances around him, one thing is for certain: He is not and will never be a "great" QB. It's time. It's been time for years quite frankly to build this franchise around a talented young QB. Look no further than to Indy or Cinci as validation for this theory. Both are excellent football teams and both have the single most important position set for years to come. It's logical really.

Not trading up to nab Carson Palmer and passing on Ben Roethlisberger are and will continue to haunt this team for years. What am I saying?

If Matt Lienert is on the board, or we have an opportunity to trade up to draft him, I day we do it. I'm hearing a lot of comparison's to Tom Brady and frankly that IS worth the gamble.

Spend the FA dough on offensive Guards.

CrossBones

12-29-2005, 04:29 PM

Where is OL?!?!?!D'oh. I knew I'd blow it. Unfortunately I can't change the damn thing! :mad:

Good analysis Rupert. And RIVL brings up the big question of QB now and down the road. I don't think Al will go QB, however, if Leinart was around that would be a very difficult decision I think. As usual, Al builds the teams to win now and he isn't patient enough to wait for Matt Leniart or any other rookie QB for that matter to get his licks. Look at Stabler. The man rode the pine for almost 3 yeras before it just got to the point where it was time. I'm not saying it isn't time but I think the team can win by building strong in the trenches both offensively and defensively.

So, you all know I'm gonna vote for DE when I get a sec...I watched Kiwi more yesterday and agree with Rupeert that he may not be strong enough to play the base DE. Super Mario on the other hand could be the answer to my dreams. If he's there when the Raiders pick I say we take this cat.

The DT from Oregon (Ngata) looks to be a monster and I wouldn't be unhappy if we took him I know Crow has stared a Jihad for this guy. He's a mean looking SOB and strong as an ox. The perfect replacement for Big Ted.

Although our OL has been total crap I still believe we can fix it through FA or in the second or third rounds. There have been a lot of gems coming out of the lower rounds and we really need to address the front seven with our first round pick. I also like A.J. Hawk but I know that is never going to happen as Al will not take a linebacker that high. So I'm back on the Sam Williams bandwagon and hope this kid can shake the injury bug and fill the OLB slot for us. The guy showed something towards the end of last season and then promptly got hurt. But Burgess has been hurt his whole career and he's made it the full season and look what happened. Could happen with Sam too..and remember Sam was an Al Davis hand picked project.

The quarterback thing is another subject but frankly like I said somewhere earlier I think we're going to have Kerry Collins as our starter next year. I don't see a lot of options out there.

The OL looks like this:

Gallery
Sims
Grove
FA
Walker (or Sims)

I'm in for this and I think it will be better. It has to get better.

Get me Super Mario to anchor this DE for the next 10 years...the pressure this guy will bring will make our secondary better immediately. Throw in some cover 2 (I know Rupert hates that idea) and we can improve this defense a lot. If the OL can improve which I think it will, Collins will be better. Jordan will be better. Add in a healthy Randy Moss and we're on our way back.

Rupert

12-29-2005, 04:41 PM

Close the polls, all 3 votes are in.

Rupert

12-29-2005, 04:45 PM

CrossBones is right. If we draft a QB, there's no way we're starting him. Al Davis lost his freaking mind when Tui had the ball knocked out of his hands a couple times. Imagine what happens when a rook QB gets a yellow spot on his trousers. Al will blow a freaking gasket.

RaiderIVlife

12-29-2005, 08:07 PM

You both are probably right. What I think should be done and what Al will likely do are two different things entirely !!!!

He might shock us all and draft that Debrikesha Fergueson (OT) kid as well. Sims is looking worse by the nano-second, Walker may or may not be a starter and Gallery & Grove need to step up in 2006. So, picking up another supposedly Blue Chip OT wouldn't suprise.

I would be pleased with Fergueson, Lienert, Williams or Ngata for different reasons and you could probably make a case for any one of them.

Rupert

12-30-2005, 10:14 AM

CrossBones

12-30-2005, 10:59 AM

WHAT!?!? None of us expects a linebacker??? But we need at least 1 starter (I'll accept Williams as a starter and not complain about injuries). But after him???

Ryan Riddle? He's a hybrid DE/OLB more in the 3-4 mold than in the 4-3 mold. We desperately need more backers as evidenced by our using the nickel as our base defense for the majority of the season.

But we're ALL right, it's not our biggest need. A close second to OL I think. So why would I draft a DE before an OLB, cuz we got a starter in the 3rd last season and we can get one there again. Imagine getting a better one in the 2nd. WOW!Bottom line is we have some issues. It's like you don't know which way to turn first --- OL, DL, QB, LB, SS....YIKES! :eek:

The more I look around the more I think RIVL might have something. The Raiders might just take that Ferguson kid to bookend Gallery. As I understand it, Fergie is another natural LT. That might leave Gallery at RT, slide Sims to LG and find ourselves a decent RG in FA...we might be set. Al is more likely to take another OL first rather than a linebacker.

It's true that the defense did better but I'm not sure how much better. (I think it seemed a lot better than it was because we were so frustrated with the offense it was the only thing of a positive nature we could hang our hat on). Burgess helped with the pass rush but it was pretty one dimensional...i.e., if Burgess didn't get some heat the QB had a lot of time to pick our man secondary apart. And most games they did a good job of it. That's why I say we still need that stud base DE and the kid Mario Williams might be our man. He's on TV this Saturday in the morning. Dude is 6'7", 290 and apparently can bring the heat hard. :eek:

Tough problem in the War Room this year. Maybe it'll be more clear after FA and we see what shakes out there. ;)

Rupert

12-30-2005, 02:54 PM

If Al Davis likes someone, the NFL will know and force him to trade up to get him. So if we like Super Mario, word on the street will be the Dolphins are going to trade up to #2 to get him, so Al will make the deal, and then someone else will trade into #1 and draft him and we'll pick up Bush as a consolation prize. Then behind our stellar OL Bush will get clobbered, blow out an ACL or two, and be lost for a couple seasons, never returning to the form he showed in college.

There's the ticket.

Rupert

12-30-2005, 02:56 PM

Remember, this wasn't just about the draft. It was about FA too.

RaiderIVlife

12-30-2005, 03:58 PM

I would really like to see us package some picks (or player combination) to obtain two top 10 picks in the first round. What what that take? Our 2nd & 4th rounders, maybe?

It will probably never happen, but how about getting say Fergueson and Williams, or Ngata and AJ Hawk? I would love to see us play it that aggresively.

San Diego landed Merriman (what a player !!) and the DT who looks pretty solid as well (name escapes me?).

Rupert - I assume you like AJ Hawk, if you we're Al, would you take him if Williams was already off the board?

Crossbones - My thoughts exactly about we could take Fergueson. I still believe that Al believes that having a dominant O-line is the way to go on offense. He assembled a pretty damn good line during the Gannon era and the drafting of Grove & Gallery in 2004 support this philosophy, regardless of the results this far. It could happen..

RaiderIVlife

12-30-2005, 04:01 PM

Typo City above !!!

Rupert - What do you think of Spencer Havner (LB) from UCLA? He might be a bit smallish at OLB in the NFL, but Odell Thurman is looking pretty good in Cinci in the same role. Havner is fast and makes big plays. I think he will be available in the 3rd...

RaiderIVlife

01-05-2006, 09:01 PM

The more I think about this (forget the coaching topic. That is harder to predict than the 1st pick IMHO) the Raiders will almost assuredly go OT or DT with this pick - meaning that Fergueson or Ngata will be the next Raider.

Bush, Lienert, Williams will be gone before we pick. We don't need antother CB either.

Whether or not Gallery develops as hoped is almost immaterial. Sims is DONE (or better be !!) at LT so we need a new one. Perhaps Chad Slaughter might get a look-see, but c'mon, our plans can't be based on Slaughter or Sims IMHO.

As for Ngata, he makes equal sense. Washington & Sapp are done or nearly done. Kelly is sort of a tweener and Sands is still probably a depth player.

BUT, having Ngata, Kelly, Burgess and TBD wouldn't look too shabby would it?

CrossBones

01-05-2006, 10:03 PM

Well personally I'm A Mario William guy. Ngata looks like a beast but I'd prefer to solidify our pass russ by getting this guy Williams. He's a stud and would fix us up for a while at DE. With Burgess playing his role, moving Brayton back to DE for good, and Hamilton there too I think we'd have our selves a really good pass rush.

Kelly slides down into the UT position and either replaces Sapp or rotates with him. Ted Washington maybe around one more year...

Problem: I don't think Williams is goping to last until the 6th pick. :mad:

That is going to leave us with a chocie (probably) of A.J. Hawh whom Al will never take that hight, Ngata, or even Kiwi.

I'm a little off Kiwi as I wasn't so impressed with his play in that bowl game the other night. But really can't grade him on one game. The other time I saw him he play he looked pretty good to me but then hurt his leg in the seond quarter of that game and I didnt see him again until last week. He's got a motor though. My fear is that Al is going to reach for somebody we might be able to get later.

As Rupert and I discussed the other day, however, this is one reason Al doesn't trade down. When he's say in the 20's he's more likly to reach and try and find that diamond in the rough, that super star, the glitz player than nobody else thinks is that good. Towards the top of the draft Al is a little more predictable because he thinks he's going to get the glitzy player there anyway. So he's not as apt to "reach" up high.

Vince Young? My predication is that Al moves up to draft Young and then converts him into a TE. :p (Just kidding).

I think Young is copming out after that monster game in the Rose Bowl. Why not? His stock will never be as high.

Maybe Houston will take him and they can trade David Carr to us. Personally I think Carr is still going to be a good NFL quarterback. But there is no reason to think he's gonna be any better in Oakland than he has been in Houston. Reason? He's getting zero protection in Houston and the way things are right now he's get no more in Oakland. Still I like the kid.

And for the record, in spite of all the ogling of Vince Young, give me Mat Leinart anytime. That kid is going to be great in the NFL!

Late!

RaiderIVlife

01-05-2006, 11:42 PM

Right, Williams won't be there at #6 so I'm not discussing him at this time.

David Carr - I'm right there with you. Young, but experienced, good mobility, good arm - Houston would be crazy to dump and we would be crazier not to sign him at almost any cost IMHO.

Vince Young - Hard to say, but what an amazing performance. I think his throwing motion would prove disaterous at the next level for some reason. Still, I wouldn't be opposed to taking a risk, maybe?

Lienert? Agree. This guy is the real deal. The NFL is and always will be a 'system' game and Lienert would be an awesome building block for Oakland. Did you see that strike to the tall WR? Exactly what Collins & Moss should/could have been doing all year. Even better than that was a throw he made to the sideline late in the game while being flushed out. Was looking to PASS the whole time and put in the most perfect of spots when he did throw - total poise. Small play in the scheme of things, but that showed me a lot.

Problem? The Jets or Saints will take him.

So, I'm back to Ngata or Fergueson and you're right about Al playing it safe when drafting this high:

Darrell Russell
Charles Woodson
Robert Gallery

All we're considered, logical & safe picks at the time.

I'd still like to see us trade multiples to get another top 15 first round pick. The Charger draft in 04' was awesome.

Abelardo

01-06-2006, 11:08 AM

Two offensive linemen in the first two picks. We have to try cos we know the root of an effective offence is the line.

Sims will be 33 or 34 next year and seems a little bit heavy. Fast DE put him in a lot of trouble. Gallery must grow up and assume his impact player role. So the right side may be the place to locate these picks.

RaiderIVlife

01-07-2006, 07:05 PM

I see that Michael Vick's younger brother is entering the NFL draft after being booted out of VT for essentially being a jackass.

I'm praying that Al Davis isn't thinking this is the guy he should draft. This has AD Pick written all over it IMO. Fuck.

Vick would boost merchandise sales and would create a lot of press about him & the Raiders. Moroever, if Vick Jr. pans out, he can be labeled a "genious" again. Frankly, I've never seen the dude play, but everything I've heard or read causes me concern. I say PASS on this dude, but like I said, Al Davis pick written all over it....

Conquistadita

01-08-2006, 01:35 PM

Biggest need is a coach who doesn't fall asleep the instant he starts looking at game film.

The Executioner

01-08-2006, 07:10 PM

Well I think our biggest need is a quarterback who is a leader, has a winning attitude and plays smart. I don't know if I would use our 1st round pick on a quarterback, and I doubt Mr. Davis would use his 1st pick on a quarterback either. Getting rid of Kerry Collins will be the best move we can make this season. He has proven he is not a winner!

XLRaider

01-10-2006, 07:27 PM

Put me down for a linebacker, make it a double. There's no way you can make the playoffs (unless you're coach's name is Belichek) playing a nickle as your base defense. I'd sign one and draft another. There are several that will go in the first couple of rounds, so we don't need to use our top pick on Hawk. If we strike out in FA on the O-line, I'd go after Ferguson with our #1, if he's still available. If not, Williams or Ngata would do nicely. We should be able to draft an impact player with that pick, hopefully we don't screw it up.

Even with how bad the O-line is, it will be easier to fix than if we neglect the D in the offseason. Our defense is starting to turn the corner, so we need to continue to get younger and faster as a unit. You can win in this league with a caretaker at QB, but only if you've got a stellar defense.

Rupert

01-13-2006, 12:52 PM

Rupert - I assume you like AJ Hawk, if you we're Al, would you take him if Williams was already off the board?

You know, I haven't seen much of him except the bowl game and my initial impression was that he reminded me a LOT of Rob Fredrickson. Rob played better than another guy who reminded me of him Napoleon Harris. Maybe Hawk can surpass both of them. If he does, he won't have been drafted by the Raiders. Backers either come here fully formed or they hardly develop, just an general observation, not a universal truism.

Rupert

01-13-2006, 12:56 PM

Rupert - What do you think of Spencer Havner (LB) from UCLA? He might be a bit smallish at OLB in the NFL, but Odell Thurman is looking pretty good in Cinci in the same role. Havner is fast and makes big plays. I think he will be available in the 3rd...

I get the impression Havner is more of a forward player. In other words, if it's in front of him he will see it and destroy it. I see him as a Morrison-type with more speed.

I don't see Havner or Morrison being too good in space (zones) yet (?) even though they have the physical tools to be.

Strange_Brew

01-13-2006, 04:03 PM

Way to keep that positive outlook Rupert! :D

-Brew

Strange_Brew

01-13-2006, 04:09 PM

I would be surprised if Ferguson dropped to the Raiders. I can see Al going after Hawk, the LB out of OSU or one of the stud defensive ends.

-Brew

CrossBones

01-13-2006, 04:23 PM

Mr. Brew...Welcome!

Al taking a linebacker at #6 (or #7) is a real shot in the dark. In their history the Raiders have never taken a linebacker hight than 17. Not saying it couldn't happen but it is very unlikely.

I'm just hoping Super Mario falls to the Raiders at #6...if we lose the coin flip I think that it is very unlikely he'll be around.

I wouldn't put it past Al to take Ferguson if he's there but to me Mario is our man.

We can't rule out the possibility of Al moving up in the draft. While he has NEVER traded down in the first round he has traded up a lot.

PS- Ok, OK, I'll get the draft forums opened up this weekend. Been busy procrastinating. :o

Rupert

01-13-2006, 04:48 PM

BREW! Welcome to the forums. And count on me for the positive spin. :D

Rob

01-13-2006, 08:14 PM

I'm back! How the hell are you..........CrossBones?

CrossBones

01-13-2006, 08:18 PM

I'm back! How the hell are you..........CrossBones?Well I'm good my friend. Glad you found your way here.

Where are all the Charger, Bronco and Chief fans?

And for Abelardo...

Il nostro amico dal Messico è visists corti effettuanti sicuri qui e la media lunga! :eek:

Rob

01-13-2006, 08:30 PM

What we need is to have our owner to get his head out of his ass. OOPs I mean past . And do something about the future. We need Defence and a running game that dominates. And a coach that has some time management skills. Not falling asleep while watching film...... thats good too.

gst8

01-13-2006, 08:50 PM

Rupert

01-13-2006, 09:12 PM

I see Rob's got the snake queued up.

You know, I think the biggest problem is the owner finding a way to get a coach who says the right things and does the right things.

Obviously, Mr. Turner said the right things but was unable to do the right things. Not on Monday thru Saturday, and even worse, not on Sundays. I can forgive Monday thru Saturday if your shit has four corners and stands at attention on Sunday. But when it isn't squared away on Sunday, it doesn't matter what you do with the rest of your time.

That's one thing I'll give Gruden, he kept his shit spit-shined and squared away. He didn't always know what to do with it on Sunday, but he never came to the party without a bottle of booze and a handful of rubbers.

Hide the kids mommies the soldier snuck out again.

RaiderIVlife

01-14-2006, 12:06 AM

Bronco fans should have plenty brag, err, talk about right about now.

ROB !!!!! Hey what's up dude? Welcome aboard. I think our biggest need is to have a coach with some attitude, charisma and consistency. Does Al Saunders strike anyone in that way? I'm not so sure. Hard to say, but I do know we need a "strong personality" at the HC position. Particularly with this franchise.

Crossbones - I demand that you remove "best player available" as an option. Total copout IMO. The thread question is basically a 'wish list', aint it? I doubt that we get a sniff at Matt Lienert, but I'd consider him our single biggest need.

BTW - I see QB has crept up on the polling?

RaiderIVlife

01-14-2006, 12:12 AM

I have a feeling that both Williams and Ferguson will be gone by our pick. If San Francisco wins the coin flip then Hawk might be gone as well. They run a 3-4 and two of their top LB's will be FA's this off season. In this scenario the obvious choice would be Ngata IMO. However my worst fear tells me that Al is foaming at the mouth for Kiwi as we speak. I would have been all over this last year but we have Burgess to fill the speed rush role now. Besides... He seems to have regressed somewhat since last season.

Dude !!! How'd you stumble onto this place?

I'd also nab Ngata in a Hot second if Williams, Fergueson & the other top 4 players were off the board. I wouldn't hate the Kiwi pick, but Ngata fills a bigger need IMO. Burgess & Kiwi starting at DE would get us mashed in the run game. Though I doubt that we'd play both very often on run downs. Ngata would be an immediate upgrade over Washington IMO. Sands could b/u Ngata and Sapp, Hawthorne and possibly Tommy Kelly (still like him at End as well) would compete for the other DT spot.

BTW - Did that CD reach you?

RaiderIVlife

01-14-2006, 12:16 AM

Strange Brew !!!!!

Now that is a name I haven't heard in years. Welcome home.

gst8

01-14-2006, 06:44 PM

Dude !!! How'd you stumble onto this place?

I'd also nab Ngata in a Hot second if Williams, Fergueson & the other top 4 players were off the board. I wouldn't hate the Kiwi pick, but Ngata fills a bigger need IMO. Burgess & Kiwi starting at DE would get us mashed in the run game. Though I doubt that we'd play both very often on run downs. Ngata would be an immediate upgrade over Washington IMO. Sands could b/u Ngata and Sapp, Hawthorne and possibly Tommy Kelly (still like him at End as well) would compete for the other DT spot.

BTW - Did that CD reach you?

I was surfing the net last night and happened to come across this forum. Not to many Rupert's in cyber space ya know. ;)

We're on the same page regarding Ngata. Personally I would take him over Hawk even if he is available. We can get a LB in the later rounds IMO.

I got the cd. For some reason I can't get it to play but I'm still working on it. If there's ever anything I can get for you just ask.

Rupert

01-14-2006, 07:34 PM

Am I that conspicuous?

01-16-2006, 12:23 PM

I think something about a 6' 7", 290 LB DE name Mario Williams just seems to be a good fit here, he may even be able to go inside from time to time. I have only seen one live game of his, it was their bowl game, and he and his defensive mates lit up the QB and their running game. He had 2 sacks and a couple of tackles behind the line. Unfortunately, like every other supremely gifted DL, there are motor questions. If he's there for us at 6, pull the trigger, but my heart won't be broken in the motor department by AJ Hawk.

Rupert

01-16-2006, 01:20 PM

I like taking Williams in the draft too.

I don't know about those motor questions. I've only seen two games and the guy seems to bring it every play. Maybe it's about being challenged, and for damn sure he'll be challenged at the NFL level.

I still think our biggest need is OL, but I'd rather get a FA or two to make the line good in a hurry. With the prospect of having Collins under center again we need the protection to be effective. I'd also like to see Jordan get the oportunity to bust through some big holes and get up a head of steam.

Ghost Poster

01-30-2006, 05:26 AM

I'm going to go with the QB if you think back when we had Stabler and Plunkett the team believed in these guys. Who on this team believes in Kerry Collins and thinks he can get the job done. Sure Kerry can throw a few nice balls during the game but he loses his concentration during stretches of the game. Kerry is also getting old and with no mobility he is usesless. I say the Raiders find a a decent QB and build the offensive line around him. I think are defense will improve under Ryan and we only have to fill a few holes in the defense. I think the offense needs a lot more work and that starts with a QB that doesn't crumble when things are not going as planned.

Also a offensive line that can generate holes and stop getting false starts on first downs. What the hell was that all about this season?We go from first and ten to first and fifteen and it just seemed to multiply. We need a disciplined O-Line guys that know the snap count and ready to smash the other team in the mouth instead of getting worked.

In other news. I've come to the realization I'm not going pro damn!

CrossBones

01-30-2006, 09:02 AM

Welcome to the site Ghost Poster. :)

Well I've given my take on Collins seems like 1000 times but I still say he will be our starting QB in 2006. Not because I want him but because I don't think there are many options unless we're content to bring in a guy like Aaron Brooks. Don't see a whole lot of upgrade there. Steve McNair is probably a pipe dream although that would be the best possible 2 year bandaide until we get a good feel for Andrew Walter.

The best thing for the Raiders to do right now is fix that offensive line. We may not be as far off as we think. A different coaching philosophy and a little re-shuffling might do wonders for these hogs. If we can fix that mess the running game would take a lot of pressure off Collins and if our new coach can come up with more than 6-7 plays and have a little creativity we might be OK at QB. Not great but maybe OK.