Walter?

[eastcoastraider]

I am looking for information on the Walter kid. Being on the east coast I never saw him play in college, and the only time I did get to see him was a preseason game against San Fran backups. While he did look good how reliable can that be? All I know about him is that he broke Elway's td record in the pac-10 (not really a defensive power conference) and that he finished his senior season injured, came to us in the 3rd rd and never finished preseason because he was injured again. I have listened to people on a lot of different sites and there are a lot of people out there praising the kid as the saviour of the franchise.

Like he is the next Stabler, Plunkett, or Gannon.

I just know our history lately with the draft has not been great. We get a good player every now and again, but more often the player turns out to be a disappointment. So this seems like extemely high praise for a third rd. pick who has been injured the last 2 years. I mean remember, Tui was a second round pick. And While I don't think he will be the starter, I don't think he was ever given a fair shot either. Any info anyone has would be appreciated.

[CrossBones]

Angry Pope posted a video of Walter when he was in college. I can't seem to find it right now. Pretty impressive.

Yeah the jury is out on this kid. He was hurt in his senior year and dropped to the third round as a result. I think he was projected as a mid first rounder before the injury. Then in his first seasonm with the Raiders he hurt hs groin and he wasn't even playing. Hard to tell and get a red on hhim at this point.. He has a [b]big arm[/]b which is something our owner loves as you know. The Raider Nation seems to be screaming for him to play but then you know the story about the backup QB always being the most lovable guy on the team!!!

Maybe AP can dig up that video for 'ya!

[Angry Pope]

Nice job CB. Here are some videos on Walter....


Hit it here.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EjcNSATX4E&search=andrew%20walter)



Press to play.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFvHQvH6eMU&search=andrew%20walter)



Here..... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPqxGnQOzTM&search=andrew%20walter)



Here...... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fse-57HwDk4&search=andrew%20walter)

[Angel]

Nice job CB. Here are some videos on Walter....


Hit it here.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EjcNSATX4E&search=andrew%20walter)



Press to play.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFvHQvH6eMU&search=andrew%20walter)



Here..... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPqxGnQOzTM&search=andrew%20walter)



Here...... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fse-57HwDk4&search=andrew%20walter)
AP's always got the right stuff!! :)

[Crow]

[b]big arm[/]b

Alright, Greg. :p

[gst8]

I'm a little skeptical that Walter's drop to the third round was due entirely to his injury and not in some part to the Kerry Collins comparisons. I've used the McGahee example before, but I truly believe that if he was a "first round" prospect then a team would have taken a chance on him earlier in the draft.

That said... he did look good last year in preseason and has some impressive credentials.

[Rupert]

gst8: Well there's a big difference in what sugeons can do for the knee ligaments and what they can do for the shoulder.

The knee isn't designed for lateral movement, it's basically a hinge. The shoulder is another matter. It's a ball in a socket and has a large range of motion.

Ligament replacement for the knee has become so good that the joint is more stable after the surgery than before. Shoulder sugeries have not been able to duplicate that kind of success.

So when a QB injures his throwing shoulder, a corresponding drop in draft position should be expected because he's guaranteed to be on the shelf for at least a year while strength is built up in the joint. Rushing a shoulder back into action is asking it to come back apart because there is no surgical procedure that makes the shoulder more stable than a healthy joint. (Note, this is contrary to what I said about Sapp's shoulder, but Sapp doesn't need power in the shoulder above the shoulder, which the throwing motion requires but a pass rush punch does not.) A RB who injures his knee can be back on the field in 6 months and back to full capability in 9 months with no perceptible drop off in production or fear of the surgical repair being weaker than a healthy joint.

[CrossBones]

Yeah I do think you're analysis of knee vs shoulder is pretty good.

It would kind of defy the logic of NO paying Brees $10 Million this coming season. True they have an out after one year (cut him with almost no penalty) but still. Guess it's just a gamble they felt they could take. I'd be pretty concerned with that shoulder. I think Miami was and took the knee case (culpepper) instead.

[gst8]

gst8: Well there's a big difference in what sugeons can do for the knee ligaments and what they can do for the shoulder.

The knee isn't designed for lateral movement, it's basically a hinge. The shoulder is another matter. It's a ball in a socket and has a large range of motion.

Ligament replacement for the knee has become so good that the joint is more stable after the surgery than before. Shoulder sugeries have not been able to duplicate that kind of success.

So when a QB injures his throwing shoulder, a corresponding drop in draft position should be expected because he's guaranteed to be on the shelf for at least a year while strength is built up in the joint. Rushing a shoulder back into action is asking it to come back apart because there is no surgical procedure that makes the shoulder more stable than a healthy joint. (Note, this is contrary to what I said about Sapp's shoulder, but Sapp doesn't need power in the shoulder above the shoulder, which the throwing motion requires but a pass rush punch does not.) A RB who injures his knee can be back on the field in 6 months and back to full capability in 9 months with no perceptible drop off in production or fear of the surgical repair being weaker than a healthy joint.

Point well taken. I was always under the impression that a knee was more serious... especially one that was shredded as badly as McGahee's. But if this IS true, doesn't it also defy the logic against trading for Culpepper?

[Rupert]

In my eyes, the logic against trading for Culpepper was his contract amount. Granted, that can be worked with. I was never worried about his knee.

[Rupert]

Yeah I do think you're analysis of knee vs shoulder is pretty good.

It would kind of defy the logic of NO paying Brees $10 Million this coming season. True they have an out after one year (cut him with almost no penalty) but still. Guess it's just a gamble they felt they could take. I'd be pretty concerned with that shoulder. I think Miami was and took the knee case (culpepper) instead.
Bones: The one thing that's improved with shoulders is the rehab. They can do wonderful things with exercises to stabilize the joint. None of which anyone does until there's a problem. Strange huh?

But yeah, it's a freaking gamble. I personally wouldn't be worried if he wasn't going to get hit. I know he can be babied during the season if he gets sore. I know he can be put on a regimen to maximize the strength and stability.

What I don't know, is what's going to happen if he falls on it wrong when he's tackled. What's going to happen if it's in a bad position when he hits? What if it gets wrenched? There are no guarantees on the football field. If you can protect him in the pocket, good. Otherwise, you've screwed yourself.

[Angel]

In my eyes, the logic against trading for Culpepper was his contract amount. Granted, that can be worked with. I was never worried about his knee.
Never? Even when reports are saying he won't be ready to practice till August? I think the Raiders dodged a bullet by not going for Culpepper.....but that's JMO. :)

[Rupert]

Never. Like I said, I've seen miraculous recoveries. Seemingly every new surgery takes less recovery time. Soon they'll just be waiting for the swelling to go down, and they'll have drugs for that.

[Crow]

I don't know what turned me off more. Culpepper's knee, or his head. The guy looked awful when he didn't have Moss out there dictating coverages. I'm really pleased that we didn't let the Vikings hose us two years in a row.

[RZ]

I don't know what turned me off more. Culpepper's knee, or his head. The guy looked awful when he didn't have Moss out there dictating coverages. I'm really pleased that we didn't let the Vikings hose us two years in a row.

Ditto. It will be interesting to watch him in Miami tho. Just glad we didn't give up the house for him.

[Crow]

Chambers is good, but I wonder if he can be the bail out Pep needs to look competant...

[RZ]

Chambers is good, but I wonder if he can be the bail out Pep needs to look competant...

He made Ferrotte look good at times lol, but then again, Ferrotte looked good with Moss as well. Its hard to say, but will be fun to watch.

[CrossBones]

Looks like there is stil a chance McNair might be an option. But with the signing of Brooks I rather doubt it woujld be in the cards for the Raiders.

I'm just wondering what Al has in mind for the draft. There was an article that AP posted where Art Shell talked about bolstering the OL even more. You think Al has D'Brick on the radar somehow?

[Angry Pope]

Looks like there is stil a chance McNair might be an option. But with the signing of Brooks I rather doubt it woujld be in the cards for the Raiders.

I'm just wondering what Al has in mind for the draft. There was an article that AP posted where Art Shell talked about bolstering the OL even more. You think Al has D'Brick on the radar somehow?

I know for certain that Al and Art like D'Brick a lot but I don't think we can get him now. We were having ongoing discussions with the Saints where Porter was part of the deal. The latest is that the Saints don't want to go below the number five spot.

[RZ]

I know for certain that Al and Art like D'Brick a lot but I don't think we can get him now. We were having ongoing discussions with the Saints where Porter was part of the deal. The latest is that the Saints don't want to go below the number five spot.

Do you know if it was swapping picks and porter or was there other picks involved as well?

[Angel]

Ditto. It will be interesting to watch him in Miami tho. Just glad we didn't give up the house for him.
I agree...will be interesting to see how Pep does there! :)

[Plunkett16]

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http://blogs.foxsports.com/NFL_Czar

Despite reports to the contrary, the Oakland Raiders are not considering trading up from the seventh spot in the first round for any of the three quarterbacks. Now that they have ex-New Orleans quarterback Aaron Brooks and with second-year quarterback Andrew Walter throwing a better ball than Brooks in the club's first mini-camp, there is no desperate need for a quarterback.

If one falls to them, yes, they may take Vince Young, but otherwise they are focused on players like Texas safety Michael Huff while wondering if San Francisco is really going to select Maryland tight end Vernon Davis.

[Raiders_Rock]

Good - I hope that means Brooks won't be starting and we won't draft Vince Young

[Rupert]

Doubleplusgood!

[Angel]

Doubleplusgood!
Awwwwwwwww Rupert, you don't like Vince either? ;)

[Rupert]

As Bones would say, "Just say NO to Vince." We've brought several option-style QB's through the doors as backups, and none of them are still here. Why? The guy needs to follow a progression and stick the throw from in the pocket. If he can't do that, we move on. Vince can't do it. Move on before we bring him in.

[Crow]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://blogs.foxsports.com/NFL_Czar

Despite reports to the contrary, the Oakland Raiders are not considering trading up from the seventh spot in the first round for any of the three quarterbacks. Now that they have ex-New Orleans quarterback Aaron Brooks and with second-year quarterback Andrew Walter throwing a better ball than Brooks in the club's first mini-camp, there is no desperate need for a quarterback.

If one falls to them, yes, they may take Vince Young, but otherwise they are focused on players like Texas safety Michael Huff while wondering if San Francisco is really going to select Maryland tight end Vernon Davis.

Funny how logic-based reporting like this never finds its way to TV or mass internet discussion, eh?

[Angel]

I have heard the Raiders are most likely to take Huff if he's there at no. 7.....but also heard they really didn't want to use that high of a draft pick for him....Oh well, the torture is almost over....just 5 more days and you'll know for sure :p

[Crow]

Huff is entirely likely. I also wouldn't be surprised in the least if we reached a little for Ngata or Bunkley. If Vernon Davis makes it past San Fran, he's our guy. Bank on it.

Still, I'm not certain that we don't trade up. Rumors or no rumors, I'm pretty sure we're trying to. If we can get up to #2, that'd be great. Mario or Bush. Whoever Houston doesn't take is ours.

Granted, I'm not all that sure how much help Bush will provide a team this bad...but screw it. Just another guy to help Brooks look competant and to help ease Walter's development.

[Rupert]

I don't like all the Ngata comparisons to Russell/McGlockton, of course that wouldn't deter Al Davis. Bunkley is another Kelly/Sapp/Hawthorne penetrator, and we need more of a NT than 3-technique.

Bush certainly wouldn't be a very good fit. Hell, he's not a great fit for Houston either. They've got a good back, just no line for him to run behind. But how can you pass up the concensus #1 overall pick and projected hall of famer (I'm just saying a concensus #1 should be a sure fire HOF guy shouldn't he?).

[Crow]

Bunkley is more than strong enough to hold two gaps. He may not be the typical 320lb nose, but he could handle the job and still get good penetration when asked.

A rich man's Ed Jasper (A much younger version of course) might be a reasonable way of putting it.

I haven't heard the Chet/Cameraman comparisons, but he does have the rep of taking a play off here and there and getting tired late in games. At 340 pounds, I guess that's inevitable. But, that's the beauty of having a strong rotation. Sapp and Ngata on the front line, with Kelly and Terd in heavy rotation.

Just a thought.

[Rupert]

Well, a rich-man's Ed Jasper does sound nice. Still, I don't know about him holding up against 2 NFL linemen. 2-gaps, I don't question. Double-teams, I do.

I made the Chet/Cameraman comparison, but I've heard everything they've said about those two: Takes plays off, wears down (although no-one said that of Russell to my recollection), doesn't have good work habits, etc.

I'd expect Terd to start the show unless Ngata really impressed in practice, but it wouldn't surprise me if Terd came off the bench. He surprised me last season, but he didn't have the endurance to be a starter. This season? Maybe he'd be better, who knows.

I like the rotation though. Sounds good. Wouldn't hurt

[Crow]

Well, a rich-man's Ed Jasper does sound nice. Still, I don't know about him holding up against 2 NFL linemen. 2-gaps, I don't question. Double-teams, I do.

I question any rookie in that regard until I see him do it, so...ya know.

I made the Chet/Cameraman comparison, but I've heard everything they've said about those two: Takes plays off, wears down (although no-one said that of Russell to my recollection), doesn't have good work habits, etc.

I still blame D-Russ' downfall on two things: Chet's influence and the release of Russell Maryland. Everything started to go downhill for him when Maryland got cut. The third problem would obviously be that he had some fuck up in him to begin with, but having Chet's behavior show him it was alright to be a loaf because you'd still get paid the same, and then the loss of RM's leadership...

Eh. Water under the bridge, I guess.

I'd expect Terd to start the show unless Ngata really impressed in practice, but it wouldn't surprise me if Terd came off the bench. He surprised me last season, but he didn't have the endurance to be a starter. This season? Maybe he'd be better, who knows.

I like the rotation though. Sounds good. Wouldn't hurt

I still prefer Terd coming off the bench. Kelly is the guy I think could likely start. But they're both stout coming off the bench.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Rupert
Well, a rich-man's Ed Jasper does sound nice. Still, I don't know about him holding up against 2 NFL linemen. 2-gaps, I don't question. Double-teams, I do.
I question any rookie in that regard until I see him do it, so...ya know.
Rightly so. Still a guy with Ngata's size is more likely to be able to handle the beef.
I made the Chet/Cameraman comparison, but I've heard everything they've said about those two: Takes plays off, wears down (although no-one said that of Russell to my recollection), doesn't have good work habits, etc.
I still blame D-Russ' downfall on two things: Chet's influence and the release of Russell Maryland. Everything started to go downhill for him when Maryland got cut. The third problem would obviously be that he had some fuck up in him to begin with, but having Chet's behavior show him it was alright to be a loaf because you'd still get paid the same, and then the loss of RM's leadership...

Eh. Water under the bridge, I guess.RM's influence was huge for the entire line. I think we'll also see how much Ted Washington's influence meant.
I'd expect Terd to start the show unless Ngata really impressed in practice, but it wouldn't surprise me if Terd came off the bench. He surprised me last season, but he didn't have the endurance to be a starter. This season? Maybe he'd be better, who knows.

I like the rotation though. Sounds good. Wouldn't hurt
I still prefer Terd coming off the bench. Kelly is the guy I think could likely start. But they're both stout coming off the bench.
I wouldn't prefer Terd to start either. Because of the double-team question, I would expect him to be the starter out of the gate. Kelly is a penetrator. And while I'm certain he would do the work as the NT, I think it might ruin him as a DT.

I know you hate Hawthorne, but he's been getting experience at NT over in Europe and has been decent. I think the Raiders are planning on him competing for the NT job. He's got the bulk and some quicks at the snap (a little inconsistent though) and could be a valuable NT if he works at it. Terd took years before he really started to contribute well (just last season). I think Hawthorne could be a good guy (yeah, I know you're going to say he sucks) if he puts in the work. Psst, Anttaj there's money to be made playing NT, lots of money.

[Crow]

RM's influence was huge for the entire line. I think we'll also see how much Ted Washington's influence meant.

That's a great point. I hadn't thought of that.

As for Fluff, he hasn't shown much ability to handle NFLE doubleteams. In the real game? He has no chance. Taj just isn't wired to be a NT.

I like Kelly on the nose based mostly on what I saw of him as a rook. As our nickle rusher from the nose, he had 4 sacks and got good pressure. I dig the guy. That's not to say he'd be a great anchor. But if we ran a penetrating, attacking defense, he'd make for a nice nose, I think.

[Rupert]

I agree about Hawthorne not being wired as a nose. I keep seeing him try to split the doubleteam, even when he should set and hold.