Gruden and Allen Back to Oakland?

[S and B Executioner]

I was just reading an article on Raiderbeat.com (I think) that talks about Fox's Tim Ryan interviewing Chucky and Bruce or sumsuch. Ryan suggested that without both ofn the guys saying as much, that BOTH would be open to returning to Oakland if Al wanted them.

INTERESTING!

I'd be open to that as well, as much as I hated Grudens conservative play calling, the cat won games. But who would be his Rich Gannon and his Ty Weatley?

Fuck I miss those days!!

[DarthRaidor]

I was just reading an article on Raiderbeat.com (I think) that talks about Fox's Tim Ryan interviewing Chucky and Bruce or sumsuch. Ryan suggested that without both ofn the guys saying as much, that BOTH would be open to returning to Oakland if Al wanted them.

INTERESTING!

I'd be open to that as well, as much as I hated Grudens conservative play calling, the cat won games. But who would be his Rich Gannon and his Ty Weatley?

Fuck I miss those days!!

That would be the best move Al's made in 7 years.

[Madturk]

It would but highly unlikely. I could see Chucky winding up in Sandy Eggo

[Raider Nation]

I think there's a much stronger chance Al would welcome Bruce Allen back before Chuckie.

[Swords]

Mike Lombardi has better odds of being on the Raiders payroll than the Chuckster.... Ol blue eyes will have his pick of teams to choose from.

Let's see:

Wash.... 5 mil is the only reason Zorn is still there
SD.... underachieving with loads of talent equals Turner being a OC next year
KC.... possibly but Pioli is riding a losing horse and isn't used to being this far back in the pack
Titans,.... Fisher needs a DB coach more than a QB
Buffalo,.... IMO Jauron is ending the road here
Cleveland,... Mangini's 15 min of fame are up... for the second time
Dallas,.... see ya Phillips you're a goner dude
Jax,.... I like Del Rio a lot but I believe that the writing is on the wall


Those are some of the heads that will roll by the end of the year. Even with Shanarat and the Spittah possibly coming back there will still be a bunch of teams throwing money at Gru..... which equals a no chance in hell he comes back.

[RaiderJF]

Al probably has too much ego to ever have these guys back. Instead he would probably look to bring in Fassel or Denny Green and continue to be the de-facto GM as you would expect a stubborn old man to do...

[hawaiianboy]

Nips posted something about this awhile back...

This is the actual Tim Ryan interview: http://www.knbr.com/common/global_audio/201/13381.mp3

[DarkDays]

I was just reading an article on Raiderbeat.com (I think) that talks about Fox's Tim Ryan interviewing Chucky and Bruce or sumsuch. Ryan suggested that without both ofn the guys saying as much, that BOTH would be open to returning to Oakland if Al wanted them.

INTERESTING!

I'd be open to that as well, as much as I hated Grudens conservative play calling, the cat won games. But who would be his Rich Gannon and his Ty Weatley?

Fuck I miss those days!!

YES WAR PIGEON. YES. You see Tampa without Chucky, he was the only thing holding that place together, OK maybe Lances dad had a smidgen to do with it as well but you see my point.

[BigTron]

The Chiefs HC is safe for another year. SO is Mangina

[RF34]

Here's what Ryan actually said when asked about a possible Gruden/Allen return:

Can you see Gruden doing a second act here?

Yes I could, I haven’t talked to Jon, I know Jon pretty well and I haven’t talked to him about this but I know he want’s to coach again. I know that there’s apart of him that really misses ball and I know over the years and I‘ve covered a lot of Tampa games in the last 5, 6, 7 years is he has never once...never once, he or Bruce Allen, I know Bruce real well, have never had one negative comment about Al Davis and the Raider organization on the record or off the record. Neither one of those guys have ever said one bad thing about the Raiders organization. So yeah I could see it happening again

He also mentioned the Redskins make a move for his services right after the above comment...

[RaiderRobert]

You would see Russell in a ProBowl before Al would ever invite them back. Although after Al dies (if possible) it could happen. Although I am still hoping for Al to succumb to reason and sanity by hiring Holmgren as a GM this offseason. He got his year off, he lives here permanently now. Do it Al. It's your only hope of ever seeing another trophy (or even the playoffs) before you go...

[Madturk]

I think Homgren was recently asked if he'd ever consider working for Al and he unequivocably said No.

[TheMadStork]

I think Homgren was recently asked if he'd ever consider working for Al and he unequivocably said No.

Any proven coach/GM who wants even a smidgen of autonomy would rather have a crackhead in withdrawal circumcise them with a rusty knife instead of working for Al. Denny Green said he wouldn't even pick up the phone if he knew Al was calling.

[RaiderRobert]

I think Homgren was recently asked if he'd ever consider working for Al and he unequivocably said No.

Most likely wouldn't happen, but IF Al decided that it was time to change his ways, and IF he decided that he needed help, and asked Holmgren to come in and be the GM and do what it takes and run this franchise, Holmgren would be in Alameda in the time it takes to drive from Santa Cruz...

[TheMadStork]

Most likely wouldn't happen, but IF Al decided that it was time to change his ways, and IF he decided that he needed help, and asked Holmgren to come in and be the GM and do what it takes and run this franchise, Holmgren would be in Alameda in the time it takes to drive from Santa Cruz...

IF? Why would Holmgren have any reason to believe that Al would keep his word? He might intend to, but given his track record, I'm sure Holmgren would have to have something really concrete written into the contract giving him an out if Al started stripping his authority from the get-go. Who needs to deal with that kind of headache when there are other teams with less baggage or even a cushy job as a talking head?

[Madturk]

IF? Why would Holmgren have any reason to believe that Al would keep his word? He might intend to, but given his track record, I'm sure Holmgren would have to have something really concrete written into the contract giving him an out if Al started stripping his authority from the get-go. Who needs to deal with that kind of headache when there are other teams with less baggage or even a cushy job as a talking head?

Good point. I can see Al at the overhead discussing Holmgren's breach of services or some shit like that:pound: I wouldn't trust Al unless he completely distances himself from the organization and that ain't happening. The best thing that we can wish for is that Bruce Allen comes back and acts as the much needed buffer we've been so severely lacking since he split a few years back.

[CrossBones]

I think Homgren was recently asked if he'd ever consider working for Al and he unequivocably said No.I believe that definitive "no" was from Bill Cowher.

As it stands here are the hot head coaches who would or could be available...


Bill Cowher
Jon Gruden
Mike Shanahan
Mike Holmgren
Marty Schottenheimer (maybe)


Here are teams very likley to have an opening:


Washington
Oakland
St. Louis
Buffalo
Carolina
Jacksonville
Dallas
San Diego
Tampa Bay


A few of these like Cleveland and Tampa may give their new HC another year. But things have been such a mess in Cleveland I don't think Mangini survives. San Diego is iffy but if they fail to make the playoffs Norval may get the gas pipe. Same with Dallas. Oakland? Anybody's guess but I say unless the Raiders somehow get to 5-6 wins Cable would be in trouble.

Seems a lot of folks think Carolina would be a landing spot for Cowher. The Dallas gig would be interesting but I wonder who would be willing to give up the control Jones might want. However, Jones (unlike Al Davis) has given up control before. Mike Holmgren? Gruden? Possibility. Holmgren wants another crack at GM duties although I seriously doubt he'd jump in bed with Al. In fact of those listed only Gruden would be an outside possibility.

[RaiderRobert]

IF? Why would Holmgren have any reason to believe that Al would keep his word? He might intend to, but given his track record, I'm sure Holmgren would have to have something really concrete written into the contract giving him an out if Al started stripping his authority from the get-go. Who needs to deal with that kind of headache when there are other teams with less baggage or even a cushy job as a talking head?

Al talked about a GM last offseason, and it didn't happen. And look where we are again. Al has to know, and will eventually learn, that he needs help. After last year there were 2 candidates for the job Al was saying he wanted to hire. Parcells re-upped with Miami, and Holmgren said he wanted a year off. Cable was retained to see what he could do with the progress he made at the end of the year. We know how that is turning out. This offseason more than any other, the situation is just RIPE for change. Potential player and salary dumps. Coaching inefficiencies. Potentially disastrous season. This is a rock bottom situation, that also has a massive potential for dramatic and immediate improvement given certain changes. Imagine the possibilities that could come with Holmgren at the helm. He could effect a dramatic turn around in just 1 year. Don't underestimate the power of EGO. That might be enough to bring Holmgren (and Davis) to the table...

It's all a pipe dream anyway. But it is sure as shit what I would do...

[RaiderRobert]

I believe that definitive "no" was from Bill Cowher.

As it stands here are the hot head coaches who would or could be available...


Bill Cowher
Jon Gruden
Mike Shanahan
Mike Holmgren
Marty Schottenheimer (maybe)


Here are teams very likley to have an opening:


Washington
Oakland
St. Louis
Buffalo
Carolina
Jacksonville
Dallas
San Diego
Tampa Bay


A few of these like Cleveland and Tampa may give their new HC another year. But things have been such a mess in Cleveland I don't think Mangini survives. San Diego is iffy but if they fail to make the playoffs Norval may get the gas pipe. Same with Dallas. Oakland? Anybody's guess but I say unless the Raiders somehow get to 5-6 wins Cable would be in trouble.

Seems a lot of folks think Carolina would be a landing spot for Cowher. The Dallas gig would be interesting but I wonder who would be willing to give up the control Jones might want. However, Jones (unlike Al Davis) has given up control before. Mike Holmgren? Gruden? Possibility. Holmgren wants another crack at GM duties although I seriously doubt he'd jump in bed with Al. In fact of those listed only Gruden would be an outside possibility.

Read my thoughts and imagine Holmgren as a GM, and him bringing in Gruden as the HC...

[eleven]

Read my thoughts and imagine Holmgren as a GM, and him bringing in Gruden as the HC...

"Let me tell you something my friend. Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane."

But seriously ....now you got me thinkin.......

[CrossBones]

Actually when Holmgren was GM he wasn't all that. Maybe that's because he tried to wear both hats of GM and HC.

In the end I don't think there is a chance in hell that Holmgren would want to take on a 4-12 team, work for Al Davis and try and fix this train wreck. Dallas would seem a better place for him if he could wrestle control away from Jerry Jones. Also don't see Holmgren wanting to tacking the problem that is JaMarcus Russell. Just don't see it. He took on Hasselback but he had a little history with Hass. So, he knew what he was getting.

Hey it's all good. In true Raider fashion we're trying to recreate the past with Allen/Gruden. Isn't that what this organization loves to do -- recreate the past?

[gannoncannon]

A return of Gruden and Allen would be very interesting.

Some concerns: After the Super Bowl year, Gruden's Buccaneers have been pretty average. Also, the draft track record under Gruden was pretty bad.

[Freakshow]

A return of Gruden and Allen would be very interesting.

Some concerns: After the Super Bowl year, Gruden's Buccaneers have been pretty average. Also, the draft track record under Gruden was pretty bad.

Very interesting indeed. Open-arms brother...
I'm less concerned about the Bucks' post-superbowl avg. years. The chuckster took us from horrible to the big-time so I know he's got it in him. Now, drafting is something that concerns me. As long as he sticks to the plan...BLA in every round (best lineman available) for the next 5-drafts we're golden!

[Postmaster]

Very interesting indeed. Open-arms brother...
I'm less concerned about the Bucks' post-superbowl avg. years. The chuckster took us from horrible to the big-time so I know he's got it in him. Now, drafting is something that concerns me. As long as he sticks to the plan...BLA in every round (best lineman available) for the next 5-drafts we're golden!

The Bucs were handicapped by the Gruden trade. They gave up a ton of high picks that could of really helped that team.

[hawaiianboy]

Actually when Holmgren was GM he wasn't all that. Maybe that's because he tried to wear both hats of GM and HC.

Unless it's Bill Belichick, I wouldn't want any part of a dual GM/HC set up...



Bill Cowher
Jon Gruden
Mike Shanahan
Mike Holmgren
Marty Schottenheimer (maybe)


I doubt he would want to work for Jerrah Jones after his experience working for Snyder, but Marty to Dallas would make a lot of sense... Hell would freeze over first, but so would Marty to Oakland... Both teams could use the toughness Marty always manages to instill in his teams..


Here are teams very likley to have an opening:


Washington
Oakland
St. Louis
Buffalo
Carolina
Jacksonville
Dallas
San Diego
Tampa Bay



My guesses:
Washington: Jon Gruden and Bruce Allen since Bruce is buds with Cerrato... Gruden trades for Brady Quinn
Oakland: Tom Cable
St. Louis: No Change
Buffalo: No idea
Carolina: Bill Cower
Jacksonville: Mike Tice
Dallas: Mike Shanahan
San Diego: Mike Holmgren
Tampa Bay: No change


Unless Al steps aside completely, I don't see us getting a "big name"... I believe he likes Cable and at the end of the year Cable will have been right about enough things from the draft to the approach to games, even if Al didn't listen to him, that he'll get another year... Best case scenario for us is if Al can play to Norv's Raider fandom and bring him in as Cable's offensive coordinator...

[london raider 2]

Sorry guys but you can forget Holmgren.

He was on tv here as a studio analyst 2 sundays ago & said he wanted to go back into coaching next year but he would be selective & didnt want to build a team up from bottom like in Green Bay/Seattle.

When someone sent an email asking if he would consider Oakland it took him all of 1 second to say no.

From the horses mouth

[Madturk]

My guesses:
Washington: Jon Gruden and Bruce Allen since Bruce is buds with Cerrato... Gruden trades for Brady Quinn
Oakland: Tom Cable
St. Louis: No Change
Buffalo: No idea
Carolina: Bill Cower
Jacksonville: Mike Tice
Dallas: Mike Shanahan
San Diego: Mike Holmgren
Tampa Bay: No change


Unless Al steps aside completely, I don't see us getting a "big name"... I believe he likes Cable and at the end of the year Cable will have been right about enough things from the draft to the approach to games, even if Al didn't listen to him, that he'll get another year... Best case scenario for us is if Al can play to Norv's Raider fandom and bring him in as Cable's offensive coordinator...

Your scenario looks pretty plausible. I'd hate to see Cowher coming to the AFC West but I do believe there's a strong chance he'll get the Carolina gig. I believe he lives there. I'd say Shanny and Chucky will be the front runners for the Dallas gig. Interesting to see where Del Rio will wind up especially being a bay area kid. Wonder if he'd have any interest in the Raider gig?

I'm ok with your Cable/Turner scenario. I'm just not sure a four win season will keep Cable in Oakland and I think Turner would be a pretty hot commodity as OC for one of these openings.

[doug7dust]

Gruden coming back here instantly makes this team an 8-8 team atleast. just his intensity and work ethic as a coach which we all loved and admired from him while he was here, that guy would not take this shitty fucking play and woulde let his guys have it, you just dont see it from this coaching staff, and we need that attitude back now.

now guys if Gruden does come back I belive we does stick with JaMarcus atleast for a year, and its not because Al tells him to.

Gruden LOVES Russell. Ive seen him numberous times on TV, whether it be an interview Russels pro day or his interview at the 07 scouting combine, or his coverage at the 2009 combine and draft or his interview with the bay area media before oakland played tampa last year, He is in awe with his physical talents so i think he would give him and shot and be on his ass like stink on shit. I also belive he would bring in a chucky type of guy, a veteran whole can grasp his playbook and come in and play if jamarcus doesnt get it quick.


all this being said just yesterday i was going to post this next thing about gruden but didnt have time so here it goes

[doug7dust]

If the Raiders want to stay in Oakland, theyre last chance is re-hiring Jon Gruden.
By Doug L(doug7dust)

Oakland-Alameda Colisieum. All the history, the glory, all the great wins, championship games, unforgettable plays and some some pretty darned good tailgating to go with it. Since the 1960's with the exception of a few years in los Angeles, The Raiders have called this great yet aging stadium home. Its a great place to watch a game for us fans, because of its a pretty easy stadium to get to and get out of after games, it has BART access on the site and has one of the most unique tailgating experiences you will ever see.

So even though the aging stadium is reason to renovate on the current site or build a new one somewhere in the Oakland/San Leandro area or just anywhere in the easy bay, its the product on the inside of the stadium on sunday afternoons that could soon drive the Raiders not only out of the coliseium, but out of northern california.

In 2002, the Raiders were flying high. Winners of multiple division championships in a row, an AFC championship berth in 2000, a loser in one of the most controversial games in NFL history in the snow in New England and a Super Bowl berth in 2002, the Raiders were damn near on top of tyhe NFL again. The boasted an awesome offense who could move the ball on anyone, get the tough yards in short situations, could hit you deep whenever it needed to and just kepth the chains moving. in 2002, they had the leagues best offense and league MVP in Rich Gannon. If these winning ways had kept going and going, im sure there would have either been a new stadium built or would have plans set and stone waiting to break ground any day now. But that is not what has happened.

Over the last seven seasons(including 2009) the Raiders have fallen completely into the black hole they were once proud to boast. Week in and week out they struggle to sell tickets, as well as put a quality team on the field. Who can blame fans for staying away? Its almost embarressing to say Im a Raiders fan, but i am and always will be so i carry on. This low amount of ticket sales and merchandise sales has to be hurting the orginization a ton. IF the Raiders dont turn this thing around soon, Al Davis may not have any other choice but to move his team back to Los Angeles, for good. No Fans equals no cash flow. This team and coty needs a winner, and NOW.

As we all know, there is a current plan in place to build a state of the art stadium in Los Angeles, which has not had a NFL team there since the mid 90's. Of Course the Raiders come up as one possible team to play there, but I belive Al Davis wants his Raiders to stay here for good in Oakland.

Lets get to the solution, Jon Gruden. Yes I said it, Jon Gruden.

Now I am still a supporter of Coach Cable, I like the guy, but this team needs a General. It needs a drill sergeant. It needs a new face on this franchise. It needs someone this fan base can get behind knowing he will get the job done. Gruden just setting one foot in the building on 1220 harbor bay pkwy will get this fan base doing back flips. Season Ticket sales will pick up. Merchandise will pick up. The entire town and surrounding areas will be exploding in excitement. This one man would do that. Lets not forget that in 1998, Davis hired his as a little known QB coach who came here and took a former O-Line coach turned head coach(Joe Bugel)4-12 football team to 8-8 in one year. One season and the team is respectable instantly. The next season 8-8 again, but of those 8 losses, I believe 5-6 of them were by 7 points or less. That stat right there had the "experts" gushing over what the 2000 raiders could do. Then the next season bam 12-4, AFC championship and a heartbreaking loss to Baltimore. 2001 11-5 and snow jobbed. Gruden then was traded not too long after this game.

This one man, commands respect when he walks into a room. He gets players attention. He practices with the players and leads by example. In the Super bowl week preparing for the Raiders as head coach of Tampa, He himself played Scout QB, instead of his number 3 guy, yes he did know our QB here, but just his fire and will to win is hard not to notice.

If Gruden with Bruce Allen return to the silver and black, with the addition of a few vets like and WR and OL this team with JaMarcus Russell goes 8-8. Gruden has always said when asked about JaMarcus that he has unbeliveable talent and wanted him to fall to tampa in 2007. He also said last season that he would love to coach him because of his enormous ability. With a strong veteran back up in place and Gruden pushing and pushing him even more, Russell would either succeed or get out of the way. We all know Gruden has a complicated system so he would have to first install a work ethic in him like Gannon had and see what happens.

Raiders returning to glory is its only chance of staying on Oakland. Its gotta happen fast, and we have two old friends in Gruden and Allen who are both available and reportingly open to coming back, this has got to happen. We are sick and tired of losing. Sick and tired of not seeing them in January. Sick and tired of the media slamming us. Sick and tired of the circus. and we DONT want to see our team leave here again. We need a winning product and soon and the only way to achieve any of this is hiring Jon Gruden.

[boknowsvt]

I may be wrong here, but weren't the players in Tampa fed up with Gruden for not having their backs last year? He would tell them all one thing, then turn around and do the exact opposite? I think that he was run out of Tampa by the players because they no longer had any respect for him

[Postmaster]

I may be wrong here, but weren't the players in Tampa fed up with Gruden for not having their backs last year? He would tell them all one thing, then turn around and do the exact opposite? I think that he was run out of Tampa by the players because they no longer had any respect for him

Yeah and look at where they are now.

[CrossBones]

Frankly I'm surprised the Raiders locker room hasn't gone sideways. With all this awful losing it's surprises me that the players seem to still be holding it together. The fact that so many have Russell's back is remarkable considering the situation.

[RaiderJF]

I may be wrong here, but weren't the players in Tampa fed up with Gruden for not having their backs last year? He would tell them all one thing, then turn around and do the exact opposite? I think that he was run out of Tampa by the players because they no longer had any respect for him

Gruden can only last about 5 years at a time with a particular team. He obviously "runs the roost" with a pretty heavy hand when he is a HC and that ends up rubbing the vets the wrong way after a while as they get sick of him kicking their ass all the time. With that said, he is a damn good coach who demands discipline (which this organization needs) and runs a great system (maybe with a little interpersonal skills training he could last 7 yrs!!!). Personally, I would be happy to get 5 years from the guy here. But, the well-documented issue, though, is Al's ego... Chucky got too big for Al last time so I would think it would be pretty doubtful that stubborn Al would swallow his pride and look to share the spotlight again. Actions speak louder than words, and its pretty obvious from the actions of this organization that it is all about Al, not about winning...

[Throne Raider]

As my dear old mother's ancestor's used to say after the most recent pogrom, "Next year in Israel."

[JohnQ]

IMHO there is one key thing.First you have figure if Gruden is even going to go back to coaching.Nevermind that I personally doubt that the planets would align such that he is the Raiders HC again.He has to decide the go back to coaching first.

Look at Gruden and the Chin.Both very intense individuals.Huge football guys.But look at their faces on TV.They're gettting paid a lot to be on TV.No it's not HC money but it's pretty good.But look at them.Laughing smiling.Gruden looks like he's the only guyt that knows a secret.Just having the greatest time of his life.

See because the thing is while some of these guys can't give it up Once they're out the pressure's off.You can use all that experience, all that knowledge have a good time and get paid.But at the end of the day it doesn't matter if you win or lose.Because you're not the head coach.So there is probably 1% of the stress pressure and bullshit.Of course some of these guys end up missing it.Understandable.But after all that time under the microscope
it's easy to see why they might be hesitant to jump right back into coaching.

Shit look at Madden.He got out of coaching because of the stress.Ulcers wasn't it ? And had a great career in broadcating for damn near 30 years.That's all I'm saying.

[Armyr8rfan]

it is all about Al, not about winning...

Exactly....we're not gonna see a big name coach....not until he retires, or passes.....He would rather have it his way and lose, than be proven wrong and win.....that motto is the biggest line of bullshit in sports.....Its only gotten worse with age....

[NIPS]

Gannon on Sirus radio yesterday said he knew for a fact that Gruden would come back to Oakland in a heartbeat if he could bring in Allen, if the old bastard asked him

Gannon said he would love to be Grudens QB coach and said he could sit down with JaStupid for 30 minutes and could tell if the guy has it or not--- Word Richie- would actually take ya 5 minutes

To me -

I really think DMAC has the potential to be as dynamic and even more than Charlie Garner was

With Zach Miller, Bush - Grudens got all the pieces to really excel with these players in a WC - Afterall - he did draft Gradkowski

That would be whats in the back of the old bastards mind tho'

It's sad really

With Ellis, Seymour, Aso -- fuckin A - Get Gruden to come in here and do what he did toTampas offense to win a ring

I know the reports no coach wants to come here

But on paper?

Man- theres some serious fuckin talent on offense that a creative coach like Gruden would love to get his hands on

Makes too much sense- and you know how old crusty fuckers get on the tail end of breathe in the lungs- Shit- Mark and Amy might walk into his lawyers office to read the final will and might find out that Al left the entire Raiders estate to fuckin JaMarcus's fuckin uncle