Samson Satele

[GRIM]

No lock at C positon.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/09/01/SPVM19GI8J.DTL

[RaiderIVlife]

I simply love revisionist history.

We are talking about Jake "Junkyard Dog" Grove, right?

The same Jake Grove that was healthy about 50% of the time?

The same Jake Grove that that played mediocre, but never consistently well at any point in his career?

The same Jake Grove that normally got his ass handed to him by Large, talented DT's?

The same Jake Grove that we expended a 2nd round pick on?

The same Jake Grove that Miami grossly overpaid for?

That dude?

Please. We were wise to let him go in my estimation given the risk/limited reward of the contract amount.

Wether or not Satele becomes a "player" for us it's secondary. Or put differently, one does not equate to the other. We paid a relatively low price for young player that fits well in our system according to most of the opinion's that I've read & heard.

I'm frankly not convinced that Grove will ever play a full season. If Al Davis gave that type of money to this player, I'd bet we'd see the same level of derision that we do iwith regard to the Tommy Kelly contract. From the same people that are lamenting Grove's loss no less. Bwahahahahaha

If ya'll can give Jake "The Junkyard Bust" Grove a 4-5 year grace period, certainly Satele can get at least half a season, no?

I want a dominant Center as much as the next guy, but in the larger context, I think our decision to let Grove walk was wise.

[RaiderIVlife]

Put another way, this is as much about pinning EVERYTHING on Al Davis as it is about our Center position. The same AD that gave big money to Tommy Kelly & Javon Walker is the same guy that retained Asomugha & Lechler.

If you closely enough at the Zapruder film, I'm fairly certain that you can find visual evidence of Al Davis firing the fatal shot on JFK. Go look, you will see it.

Sheesh, forget the "The Media", and "ESPN", I hope the Raiders start to win games just to silence the constant negativity from many "Raider Fans".

Can we not attempt to enjoy the moment of the looming season?

[Xplosive]

Satele is acting like he doesnt know any of the plays..

X

[RaiderIVlife]

Satele is acting like he doesnt know any of the plays..

X

That may be the case. Wade & Morris, while not world beaters, have been here for 2 years (or longer in Morris' case) and they certainly know the plays. If Satele is not ready, so be it, that doesn't mean that we should have overpaid Jake Grove. That is my basic point.

[Xplosive]

we also need terdell sands to start.


X

[gannoncannon]

we also need terdell sands to start.


X

HA! That'll be the day!

[Crow]

I might consider changing my "Let Grove walk" tune if I hadn't seen the reports of what Miami paid to get him.

Personally, and I've said it before, I'd love to see the team draft a big, gnarly ass guard in the 320+ range (two of them, really) and see if his ass can handle the pivot. Zone scheme or not, this team needs a brute at center, especially now that the entire division runs a 3-4 and the two teams that don't have a Jamal Williams will be actively searching for one.

[Diceq]

Satale has not looked good. In the niner game, he avoided contact...John Wade is an NFL level center and we didn't sign him by accident. He was brought in to replace Grove...Grove responded with a career year in his walk year...Wade does not need to apologize for outplaying Satale

[Madturk]

That may be the case. Wade & Morris, while not world beaters, have been here for 2 years (or longer in Morris' case) and they certainly know the plays. If Satele is not ready, so be it, that doesn't mean that we should have overpaid Jake Grove. That is my basic point.

I'm ok with Wade or Morris if Satele doesn't pan out. Besides, its not like we paid a lot to get him, however I think we were badly remiss in passing on a center this draft.

[CrossBones]

Well there it is. RaiderIVlife runs around the world for months, comes back and knocks Jake "Nasty" Grove the fuck out. And it's the truth. Grove was a complete bust in Oakland. Case closed.

And so far I'm not impressed with Satele. Not one bit impressed. So yes, the bottom line is if Wade or Morris beats him out -- so be it.

[DonkeyKilla]

well Grove may have sucked for most of his time in Oakland but he did play pretty well last year. Our run offense sure looks like they miss him right now...
I also agree that we were relatively smart to not overpay him like we did with TK and others, but all the more reason we should have addressed the OL in the draft...

[RaiderRobert]

Satale has not looked good. In the niner game, he avoided contact...John Wade is an NFL level center and we didn't sign him by accident. He was brought in to replace Grove...Grove responded with a career year in his walk year...Wade does not need to apologize for outplaying Satale

I don't believe Wade was brought in to REPLACE Grove. He was insurance for when Grove got hurt again, AND as insurance for Newberry.

I think Satele is going to be fine... As soon as we replace the major problem, which is Carlisle. Put a beefier, stronger RG next to Satele, and we will be fine.

[DonkeyKilla]

i am also holding out hope that Satele will be ok...

[Rupert]

Personally, and I've said it before, I'd love to see the team draft a big, gnarly ass guard in the 320+ range (two of them, really) and see if his ass can handle the pivot. Zone scheme or not, this team needs a brute at center, especially now that the entire division runs a 3-4 and the two teams that don't have a Jamal Williams will be actively searching for one.

Ink it. Cuz it's true.

[Random Dude]

Ink it. Cuz it's true.

I wanted Al to draft Duke Robinson to play RG. He fits the mold that Crow is talking about. I think he was taken in Rd 5 too. The line needs some beef bad.

[GRIM]

Barrett Robbins anyone?

[Rupert]

I wanted Al to draft Duke Robinson to play RG. He fits the mold that Crow is talking about. I think he was taken in Rd 5 too. The line needs some beef bad.

No doubt. The draft seemed like a foregone conclusion the way we handled the FA acquisitions. I think Marshall and Board thought there was enough talent at DT for what they wanted to do. They drafted a DE (and picked up Ellis when Burgess wasn't going to play well here). All of which made sense considering the players in the draft and FA.

I think they overestimated the ability of the FA guys to help the OL. But it looked like they thought they had enough and went WR and D in the draft.

I think they were waiting for next year's draft for DT.

Sure we can argue against the strategy, but it seems sound. Now they'd just better follow through.

[Crow]

Barrett Robbins anyone?

Spoiled me for life. Like a petite white girl getting deflowered by Mandingo. After that, nothing short of 12" will do.

[Crow]

Sure we can argue against the strategy, but it seems sound.

No it doesn't. Not at all.

[Rupert]

No it doesn't. Not at all.

To your jaundiced eyes. But you're not used to peering past your sphincter.

[RaiderJF]

we also need terdell sands to start.


X

Maybe to start the bus, but that is about it. The Terd is done. He had his chance. He is a mountain of a man, but he just has not learned to play football after what, 5 years in the league. At what point do people finally realize that what you see is what you got. I have seen nothing that would lead me to believe otherwise.

[RaiderJF]

Grove was a decent player for us. Of course that is when he was healthy and could stay on the field. No, he wasn't close to being an all-pro as he was overmatched by the bigh DTs as well. But he could move and did a pretty nice job in the ZBS especially getting out to the second level. But the question is whether he was worth the megabucks that the Dolphins paid him? Personally, I don't think so. Is he better than anyone we have right now? Probably. We still have to see how Satele can develop in this system. He obviously has not had a good start whether it be due to coming off injury or just lack of familiarity with the system, but we are still only in his first TC with the team. Lets at least see where he stands come mid-year. But, I agree, Samson's slow start still is no reason to have overpaid for Grove (not that we would have known this anyway). I still would have loved for us to draft Mack or Wood to cover our bases and have some options at both C and RG, but that too is water over the bridge now as Al had to instead have his "swing for the fences" picks this year... C'est le vie.

[RaiderIVlife]

Grove was a decent player for us. Of course that is when he was healthy and could stay on the field. No, he wasn't close to being an all-pro as he was overmatched by the bigh DTs as well. But he could move and did a pretty nice job in the ZBS especially getting out to the second level. But the question is whether he was worth the megabucks that the Dolphins paid him? Personally, I don't think so. Is he better than anyone we have right now? Probably. We still have to see how Satele can develop in this system. He obviously has not had a good start whether it be due to coming off injury or just lack of familiarity with the system, but we are still only in his first TC with the team. Lets at least see where he stands come mid-year. But, I agree, Samson's slow start still is no reason to have overpaid for Grove (not that we would have known this anyway). I still would have loved for us to draft Mack or Wood to cover our bases and have some options at both C and RG, but that too is water over the bridge now as Al had to instead have his "swing for the fences" picks this year... C'est le vie.

EXACTLY my point. If I could trade the Mike Mitchell pick for Mack, I probably would, but the primary point was about Jake Grove and his salary. Not worth it. Period. We made the right choice given the circumstances.

BTW, Satele still MIGHT pan out for us. It's way too early to cast him out IMO.

[gst8]

BTW, Satele still MIGHT pan out for us. It's way too early to cast him out IMO.

Meh.

I don't have the patience to wait for these guys to pan out anymore.

Either put up or "next".

Satele is turing out exactly as advertised.

Bye the way... good seeing you around R4L.

Hope things are going well.

[CrossBones]

Meh.

I don't have the patience to wait for these guys to pan out anymore.

Either put up or "next".

Satele is turing out exactly as advertised.

Bye the way... good seeing you around R4L.

Hope things are going well.Tuna 1 Al Davis 0


;)

[RaiderIVlife]

Tuna 1 Al Davis 0


;)


Ahh come on Bones, it's an "incomplete" at this juncture. Let's see if Grove justifies the contract first. I still say we got over in the end. Grove won't play well enough or long enough in my estimation.

Gst8 - Been a long time dude. Things are pretty well. Hope it's the same on your end.

Here we go.....another campaign......Can we at least be competitive into November..........

[RaiderRobert]

Tuna 1 Al Davis 0


;)

Put the money issue into the equation and it's a draw. Tie goes to Al...

[GRIM]

NP

[DarkDays]

Tuna 1 Al Davis 0


;)
After tonight and seeing him struggle against scrubs we have to bench him opening day. Sam will get Russ killed bottom line. We have got to rebuild our Oline from center to right tackle.

[Raider Outlaw]

If Waide weren't hurt, I think he'd be in danger of being cut and still might be when Waide does shake that stinger off. he's been awful.

[CrossBones]

Bill Parcells knew this guy can't play. He was manhandled by Seattle's 4's. He played almost the entire game. He's not an upgrade to Grove and Grove was garbage. Oh well. Hope Wade can answer the bell.

[Xplosive]

chris morris Will be the starter for the Chargers game. Murphy and DHB will also be starters.

Satele will rotate in. 700 players will be free saturday, and we have a week to get a few players if we aquire them up to speed before next monday.

X

[RaiderNorth]

Bill Parcells knew this guy can't play. He was manhandled by Seattle's 4's. He played almost the entire game. He's not an upgrade to Grove and Grove was garbage. Oh well. Hope Wade can answer the bell.

Certainly, wouldn't defent Satele at this point ... been a major disappointment. But not sure if Seattle's 4s saw much of the field. Aaron Curry played the entire first half. The Hawk LB that got a lot of playing time when Tatupu went down (can't remember his name) was still playing at the end of the 3rd. Looked to me like the Raiders 2s and 3s were playing against 1s and 2, and the 3s and 4s were playing against 2s and 3s. I think Mora is playing to wrestle the pre-season world title away from Art Shell.

[RaiderNorth]

Which brings up another point. I thought it was Morris who was running with the 1s. What does this mean?

[Madturk]

I thought Satele played the entire game?

[Postmaster]

I thought Satele played the entire game?

Morris started.

[RaiderNorth]

Don't watch the lines that closely to be sure. But saw Morris listed when they were scrolling through the starting rosters.

[CrossBones]

Why are we hanging on to a "hope" that this Satele clown is gonna do the job? We're making excuses. He has played horribly the entire preseason, been banged up a little and looks lost out here all the time. He played basically the entire game and got his ass handed to him. Other than Curry Seattle didn't play any front line player after the first series! :eek:

[RaiderNorth]

But Curry was a beast. He was everywhere. That said, I think Cable put Satele with the 2s to get a good look. How much of a cap hit if we cut him loose? If not too much, maybe we can put that money to better use if we are servicable with Wade and Morris. I don't see how they could be that much worse.
Never for a minute wanted to defend Samson. Didn't really like him at first sight -- if you're gonna draw attention to yourself with some crazzy-ass hair, you better back it up.

[Madturk]

It wouldn't surprise me if Morris starts against the Chargers. He's got a good grasp of the offense and the fact that we're looking to bring in Sean Mahan doesn't appear to instill a vote of confidence for Satele.

[Madturk]

But Curry was a beast. He was everywhere. That said, I think Cable put Satele with the 2s to get a good look. How much of a cap hit if we cut him loose? If not too much, maybe we can put that money to better use if we are servicable with Wade and Morris. I don't see how they could be that much worse.


IIRC, I think Satele's cap hit would be minimal. It would piss me off if we passed on one of the centers in the draft because we thought this guy was going to be the next big thing. :shakehead: Maybe this ZBS thing isn't for him. I just assume cut bait now than drag this thing out a la Kwame Harris.

[Rupert]

Don't watch the lines that closely to be sure. But saw Morris listed when they were scrolling through the starting rosters.

Saw Morris play the 1st series. Looked good as well as you can judge in 3 plays. No Satele moments.

[Rupert]

IIRC, I think Satele's cap hit would be minimal. It would piss me off if we passed on one of the centers in the draft because we thought this guy was going to be the next big thing. :shakehead: Maybe this ZBS thing isn't for him. I just assume cut bait now than drag this thing out a la Kwame Harris.

Maybe his shoulder isn't fully healed and IR-ing him might be worth something. But other than that, he plays 300lbs like Burgess played 260 last season. Not very convincingly.

[RaiderRobert]

Maybe his shoulder isn't fully healed and IR-ing him might be worth something. But other than that, he plays 300lbs like Burgess played 260 last season. Not very convincingly.

So, do we think Morris and/or Wade are any better? I don't think so. But if we can find a good C on Saturday we should jump at that. IR Satele, and have him spend the whole year between now and next offseason with whoever Alston worked out with. Get Satele up to about 310 with all muscle... Works for me. But I just don't see Morris as starting caliber. He is a versitile lineman that can play all 3 interior positions, thats why he is on this team. Wade is still hurt. Hasn't even practiced in a month. Think he is ready for Jamal Williams after 1 week of practice at the most? I think we may be screwed here...

[Diceq]

It's hard to Gage Morris vs. 2nd stringers...but Satale's not right...IR may be correct on that thought

[Madturk]

Morris albeit unspectacular is serviceable. I kind of see him in the Adam Treu mold. Wade has been a starter most of his career so I don't see a huge dropoff here. Michalzyk will have to do a better job of adjusting the schemes for the opener.

I thought center was somewhat a position of strength coming into the season. Now it appears we'll be scrambling a bit.