Michael Crabtree "CONS"

[GRIM]

We've all heard the pros, so now let's look at the cons of M.Crabs.

Is not a flat-out burner although he does have adequate speed so he can be caught from behind and dragged down. Texas Tech doesn't employ a full route tree so he hasn't run all the routes an NFL team will require so he'll need to learn the nuances of his position throughout training camp.

Average 40 time, but NFL game speed is MUCH faster.

Gun shy when going low in zone, hips on quick short routes are slow to get in position.

Feel free to add some... Like mine.

Injury was serious enough to keep him out of ALL SF OTA's

[BigTron]

Not DHB!

[Birdwell]

The Niners are going to have to make a quick decision -- is Crabtree a good enough playmaker in the NFL to allow us to line him up behind the line to help free his release. No CB in the league is gonna be scared by his speed, so look for a lot of press coverage. NFL rules rquire 7 guys on the line of scrimmage, so in a standard pro set the QB, FB, and HB are already not on the line. If the TE is on the line (which is usually the case), one receiver can be off.

Usually, the receiver who lines up off the line is the deep guy, just because a slow release almost eliminates any chance to get deep. Watch Crabtree at Texas Tech, and you'll seldom see him lining up on the line and fighting through anything for his release. In the NFL, his speed is not going to get him open, and I don't recall any other serious WR threats on the other side of the Bay. Until they get a speedster with reliable hands opposite him, Crabtree is a square peg in a round hole. It's gonna be even harder to run for the Niners this year if they give Crabtree the advantage off the line.

[Freakshow]

Dude had a major foot injury and now runs on pins and screws...how's that for a con. It's been my experience over the years that players don't recover quickly/if at all from serious foot injuries.

No quarterback to get him the ball and a shakey o-line. Add those to his list too.

[Rupert]

Likes to make his own outfits.

The NFL has uniform rules.

Dude will be fined almost weekly.

The payroll staff will need to have that deduction on speed dial.

[hawaiianboy]

The "Let's feel better about Heyward Bey" thread...

I think Crabtree can play...

I think Bey can play...

I think BJ Raji can play...

I think Eugene Monroe can play...

The big issue for me is not Bey vs Crabtree, as IMO we took Bey over Tree because Al is looking for the next Randy Moss rather than the next Anquan Boldin... the issue for me once again is taking a good small guy over a good big guy when we still have issues on both lines... I feel the same way now as when we took Huff over Kiwi, Marcus McNeil and Ngata... We're still the guy who goes to the gym and trains nothing but arms every day...

I hope Bey blows up as it will be great for us and put it right in Cris Carter and companies face... but I also hope Crabtree does relatively well as it will help ease the stigma of players coming out of a spread offense and ensure a guy like Davonne Bess doesn't go undrafted in the future...

[Freakshow]

... We're still the guy who goes to the gym and trains nothing but arms every day...

So true! :lmao:

[Random Dude]

We're still the guy who goes to the gym and trains nothing but arms every day...

That's still better than wacking your penis on the bedpost every night until it swells to nine inches.

[CrossBones]

I really don't give a damn about Michael Crabtree.

He's a Whiner.

He's not a Raider.

If I were him I'd steer clear of Castro Street. Just sayin'.

[GRIM]

That's still better than wacking your penis on the bedpost every night until it swells to nine inches.

IN HIS DREAMS!

HB claims it's 9 inches, and that his wife screams and hollers a lot during intercourse. But what he fails to explain is the fact that she is screaming and hollering so much to keep from laughing in his face. :pound:

How about a new name for your Fantasy team this year HB? Like, ummm, something more realistic... Say, "HB's 1/2 inch penito." Or," HB's baby penis", or something more true to life. (Not that I've seen it or anything.) Gawd, that's so gross.

I imagine it's probably like Stewie's little dick on Family Guy more than some 9 inch beat up piece of pork tenderloin. :eek:

[Blackened]

How did this thread go from Crabtree to HB's mythological penis size?

[RaiderRobert]

How did this thread go from Crabtree to HB's mythological penis size?

Same as too many other threads here...

[GRIM]

It's an inside joke.

Don't try to understand us. We've been doing this for over a decade.

[s.dot88]

Dude had a major foot injury and now runs on pins and screws...how's that for a con. It's been my experience over the years that players don't recover quickly/if at all from serious foot injuries.



Jonathon Stewart had the same surgery around the same time of last year, but i think he recovered a lot faster, im not sure. point being; stewart had the same problem and had a pretty nice year at a position that takes way more of a pounding.

i think Crabtree will be good, and that doesnt really bother me, personally.

[DarkDays]

wow this thread went south in a hurry:eek:

[YodasBeast]

It usually does when HB is involved.

[GRIM]

It's not like every thread here gets like this. The razzing we all do is part of knowing eachother for so long and some people don't get it. It's ok.

Maybe I do go off on HB on too many threads. I'll curb my HB razzing' so as not to offend those who may not get it.

I really don't think "Too many other threads" are riddled with our banter. We just like to keep it fun, but this is a football forum, so I'll tone it down. Doesn't matter to me.

I'll save it for when I beat his ass down in the league in a few weeks. ;)

[Blackened]

It's not like every thread here gets like this. The razzing we all do is part of knowing eachother for so long and some people don't get it. It's ok.

Maybe I do go off on HB on too many threads. I'll curb my HB razzing' so as not to offend those who may not get it.

I really don't think "Too many other threads" are riddled with our banter. We just like to keep it fun, but this is a football forum, so I'll tone it down. Doesn't matter to me.

I'll save it for when I beat his ass down in the league in a few weeks. ;)


Oh I get it and I'm all for razzing. Some good humor takes the edge from too long of a off season. I wasn't trying to be asshole about it not my thing. I get some good laughs from this forum even though I'm mostly a lurker around here.

[CrossBones]

Same as too many other threads here...

wow this thread went south in a hurry:eek:I get it..it's better to have 36 threads and post after post about how shitty Russell is beating that to death day in and day out. That's what I call interesting reading.

It's the friggin' off season. They just played thded MLB All Star game. It's the dog days of summer.

:rolleyes:

[hawaiianboy]

People are arguing over my Penis again... Put some cheerleader outfits on and it'll be just like my SR year in high school... :D


I suggested a long time ago that there should be a sub-forum dedicated to my Penis... While Bones loved the idea, he felt it would require too much resources and necessitate the need to upgrade the server a few notches... Trojan offered to kick in some sponsor money to promote their Magnum line (http://www.trojancondoms.com/Product/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=32), but Bones didn't want to go corporate at the time...

For the record, my Penis also feels we should have targeted the O-line harder in this draft, that the JaMarcus subject is played out, that Cable should have hired an OC and that Grims fantasy teams suck harder than Jeff Garcia in a Castro District back alley... My Penis will also be signing autographs and posing for pictures Sunday in the Blackreign lobby from 9am-2pm, with prices varying... To avoid the problems we had with Natty and 007 camping over last time, Bones has come up with a token system... Please call for more information...

[YodasBeast]

People are arguing over my Penis again... Put some cheerleader outfits on and it'll be just like my SR year in high school... :D


So they started chanting things like this?:
"One and Two and Maybe Three. That's all HB has for me!"
"Pull it out! Stretch it out! Way out! C'moooooooon Fourrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!"
"HB thinks that he has nine, but when he shows it he'll just whine!"
"Years ago he mixed up age with length and now you know he has no strength"

That last one was one of their weaker cheers, but they still went with it.

[Blackened]

People are arguing over my Penis again... Put some cheerleader outfits on and it'll be just like my SR year in high school... :D


I suggested a long time ago that there should be a sub-forum dedicated to my Penis... While Bones loved the idea, he felt it would require too much resources and necessitate the need to upgrade the server a few notches... Trojan offered to kick in some sponsor money to promote their Magnum line (http://www.trojancondoms.com/Product/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=32), but Bones didn't want to go corporate at the time...

For the record, my Penis also feels we should have targeted the O-line harder in this draft, that the JaMarcus subject is played out, that Cable should have hired an OC and that Grims fantasy teams suck harder than Jeff Garcia in a Castro District back alley... My Penis will also be signing autographs and posing for pictures Sunday in the Blackreign lobby from 9am-2pm, with prices varying... To avoid the problems we had with Natty and 007 camping over last time, Bones has come up with a token system... Please call for more information...



Now that's some funny shit :rotf:

[RaiderRobert]

I get it..it's better to have 36 threads and post after post about how shitty Russell is beating that to death day in and day out. That's what I call interesting reading.

It's the friggin' off season. They just played thded MLB All Star game. It's the dog days of summer.

:rolleyes:

I rather enjoy the jokes and banter you vets carry on. I just wish a thread about a topic would stay on topic. When I click on a thread about something, I expect to read about that, so why does it so often contain other links material? Is it so difficult to start a new thread? I really like this forum, but if a thread goes off topic, it should die, or someone should keep it on the topic. That's all. Had nothing to do with you old guys...

[GRIM]

People are arguing over my Penis again... Put some cheerleader outfits on and it'll be just like my SR year in high school... :D


I suggested a long time ago that there should be a sub-forum dedicated to my Penis... While Bones loved the idea, he felt it would require too much resources and necessitate the need to upgrade the server a few notches... Trojan offered to kick in some sponsor money to promote their Magnum line (http://www.trojancondoms.com/Product/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=32), but Bones didn't want to go corporate at the time...

For the record, my Penis also feels we should have targeted the O-line harder in this draft, that the JaMarcus subject is played out, that Cable should have hired an OC and that Grims fantasy teams suck harder than Jeff Garcia in a Castro District back alley... My Penis will also be signing autographs and posing for pictures Sunday in the Blackreign lobby from 9am-2pm, with prices varying... To avoid the problems we had with Natty and 007 camping over last time, Bones has come up with a token system... Please call for more information...

HB, This is all I have to say about the EXACT TRUTH involving you...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-e9YD18d-M

[Postmaster]

Crabtree beginning to win over teammates
Posted by Aaron Wilson on July 18, 2009 7:15 PM ET

Does San Francisco 49ers rookie wide receiver Michael Crabtree have a bit of an attitude problem?
And, if that's the case, has Crabtree changed his ways?

According to Matt Maiocco of the Santa Rosa Press-Democrat, Crabtree angered his teammates when he showed up late for a team meeting this offseason.

And Crabtree's trangression caused 49ers coach Mike Singletary to punish the entire team with additional running. Per the report, which cited a team source, Crabtree never said he was sorry to his teammates.

However, Crabtree may have learned something from that incident.
"Since that episode, Crabtree has come around and his teammates are warming up to him," Maiocco wrote.

During a subsequent June 8 practice, Crabtree took part in some full-team sprints that were caused by Singletary's displeasure at several miscues.

During that instance, Crabtree, who's recovering from a stress fracture in his foot that required surgery in March, had finished his rehab workout and wasn't required to do the extra running period. However, he opted to run anyway.

The Cleveland Browns reportedly soured on Crabtree during an official visit prior to the draft because of his alleged diva behavior.

Plus, as Mike Florio pointed out recently, Crabtree has a tendency to get a bit emotional considering how he reacted to being scolded by Singletary on the practice field this offseason for jogging when he hadn't been cleared yet by doctors.

As for Crabtree's medical outlook, the former Texas Tech standout is reportedly on schedule to be able to practice by August 1.

[Limee]

Crabtree ending up the other side of the bay could well end up being a good thing, I guess we will soon find out.

I rather enjoy the jokes and banter you vets carry on. I just wish a thread about a topic would stay on topic. When I click on a thread about something, I expect to read about that, so why does it so often contain other links material? Is it so difficult to start a new thread? I really like this forum, but if a thread goes off topic, it should die, or someone should keep it on the topic. That's all. Had nothing to do with you old guys...
Some forums get so over moderated that it ends up being discussions about what should and shouldn't go in each thread. I like the conversational style here, it is more like walking into your local pub of an evening. The regular characters are all there the one with the fisherman's tales, the weirdos, some decent folk and the old man who has sat in the same seat for years and always falls asleep at the bar long before closing time.

[RaiderRobert]

Point taken. I surrender...

[CrossBones]

...and the old man who has sat in the same seat for years and always falls asleep at the bar long before closing time.Wait a minute. Was that a shot at ME? :pound:

[Sleet]

Limee: Rep.

[DarkDays]

It's not like every thread here gets like this. The razzing we all do is part of knowing eachother for so long and some people don't get it. It's ok.

Maybe I do go off on HB on too many threads. I'll curb my HB razzing' so as not to offend those who may not get it.

I really don't think "Too many other threads" are riddled with our banter. We just like to keep it fun, but this is a football forum, so I'll tone it down. Doesn't matter to me.

I'll save it for when I beat his ass down in the league in a few weeks. ;)

It's all good this time a year any post is a good one. Besides a little smack is good for ya

[DarkDays]

Hate tos ay it but crabbs is going to be a baller and it is going to suck having to listen to the ferywhiner fans gloat

[GRIM]

Crabs has a lot of adjusting to do. This is the NFL, not a gimmick. JJ Stokes was supposed to be the second coming of Jerry Rice too...:rolleyes: Just sayin.

[GRIM]

And, who's gonna be throwing to Crabs? Alex Smith? Hill?

There's a lot of questions on the other side of the bay. Probably more than over in Oakland. Crabtree doesn't exactly go into the most perfect situation over in SF.

[Rupert]

Never saw film of Rice before the draft, but I watched Stokes play in person. Dude was strictly a possession receiver. Had protoypical size, and TE speed. He was able to muscle through Pac-10 CB's like an NBA power forward, but could not do the same thing in the NFL because he could not separate.

Unless the QB was willing to throw a half dozen jump balls his way (and in the NFL those don't get completed as often as people think they do) he just wasn't going to be effective. NFL CB's also will punish your ribs if you embarrass them too often on jump balls. And Stokes took his share of punishment which really effected his willingness to sacrifice for the team.

[Birdwell]

Never saw film of Rice before the draft, but I watched Stokes play in person. Dude was strictly a possession receiver. Had protoypical size, and TE speed. He was able to muscle through Pac-10 CB's like an NBA power forward, but could not do the same thing in the NFL because he could not separate.

Unless the QB was willing to throw a half dozen jump balls his way (and in the NFL those don't get completed as often as people think they do) he just wasn't going to be effective. NFL CB's also will punish your ribs if you embarrass them too often on jump balls. And Stokes took his share of punishment which really effected his willingness to sacrifice for the team.

I saw some highlights on TV of Rice in college. He played in a base 5 WR set at Mississippi Valley State. Not a run and shoot, just a conventional passing tree with 5 WRs. To get big numbers in that scheme, you have to be really good at running your routes, and in shape, or you won't get more than 20% of the balls. But nobody thought Rice would be a pro bowl WR but maybe once or twice. He had good speed, legit WR, but not great. And he never was very big. He just absolutely got the max outta what he had, in his body and in his head.

[GRIM]

Crabtree: Height & Weight: 6'3 - 214 lbs.

JJ Stokes: Height/Weight: 6' 4"-219 lbs.


Remarkably close in height and weight.

[BigTron]

Calvin Johnson was a freak coming out of college. He had the same rookie stats as Zach Miller basically.... I wouldnt expect much out of our passing game this season either. Its still a work in progress. We need to run the ball and D up. Converting 3rd downs is the thing we need to focus on.

I wouldnt expect DHB or Crabtree to blow up. It will be some random ass WR like Devon Bess last year. WR production has alot to do with the particular offense.

[Rupert]

Crabtree: Height & Weight: 6'3 - 214 lbs.

JJ Stokes: Height/Weight: 6' 4"-219 lbs.


Remarkably close in height and weight.

But Crabtree can run.

They weren't throwing WR screens to Stokes. He typically went into soft zones and pulled down jump balls. UCLA also ran a lot and did a lot off of play action fakes. Stokes was often manned up on a tiny DB who was playing catchup on a deep rainbow, or let go deep because the D was looking run. Stokes also worked the middle of the field by walling off defenders. He could man up against smaller college LB's. That same trick didn't work in the NFL.

[Sleet]

I think Hill did a good job last year for the 49ers (far better than I certainly expected). While Hill doesn't have a big arm, Crabtree isn't fast enough to go catch it, either. However, Hill is a good short-passer, and that is Crabtree's game. My guess is that they will work well together.

[GRIM]

Stokes also had Steve Young.

Steve Young > Alex Smith/Shaun Hill. Crabtree will struggle. I think we can all agree. The QB situation across the bay is nowhere near WR friendly. Esp. for a rookie with expectiations like Crabs has.

I'm not saying he won't be good, I don't know. But I can say honestly that SF does not have a decent QB in the ranks. That can make it difficult for Mike Crabtree. Simple, yet profound.

[CrossBones]

One thing I do know is that if Crabteree had ended up a Raider our tune would be significantly different. In fact we'd be measuring him for his HOF induction jacket! ;)

As with Bey and Mitchell we have no idea how Crabteree will do in the NFL. He has yet to play in even a single pre-season game.

As with most drafts and draftees we really won't have a clear view of the entire thing until 2-3 years from now. Of course there will be a few instant busts. I must hope none of those are in Silver & Black.

http://www.blackreign.net/forums/images/icons/oakland_raiders2.gif

[GRIM]

One thing I do know is that if Crabteree had ended up a Raider our tune would be significantly different. In fact we'd be measuring him for his HOF induction jacket! ;)

As with Bey and Mitchell we have no idea how Crabteree will do in the NFL. He has yet to play in even a single pre-season game.

As with most drafts and draftees we really won't have a clear view of the entire thing until 2-3 years from now. Of course there will be a few instant busts. I must hope none of those are in Silver & Black.

http://www.blackreign.net/forums/images/icons/oakland_raiders2.gif


My intention was to focus on the reasons "Why Oakland passed" on Crabtree.:confused: What the "Cons" each of us feel there were for the Raider franchise to pass on what seemed to be the "Sure Deal" in Crabs. Who will now, for all intents and purposes according to some Raider fans, become the next "Jerry Rice." ;)

Nor was this to be what was called the, "Feel better over the DHB pick" thread.

I guess my thinking goes deeper. I want to know EXACTLY why the Oakland Raiders passed on the kid. What were those "cons" in his game? Was it merely the foot? Is there something there no one of us sees? Is the kid soft? Was it the offense he came out of ?

Anyway, not to beat a dead crab into the sand... Just wondering.

[DonkeyKilla]

for those bashing on Shaun Hill... he played a lot better than JR did last year.
Crabtree has a lot more opp to get the ball in SF than DHB does in Oakland. Not that it matters.

[gst8]

for those bashing on Shaun Hill... he played a lot better than JR did last year.

Um... no.

[GRIM]

I wasn't bashing him actually. I only said he's not a great QB.

[hawaiianboy]

One thing I do know is that if Crabteree had ended up a Raider our tune would be significantly different.

Ohmygod, in the past 3 years we drafted the #1 ranked QB, the #1 ranked RB and the #1 ranked WR.... We got our triplets bitch!




I guess my thinking goes deeper. I want to know EXACTLY why the Oakland Raiders passed on the kid.

I think it's simple... Bey ran the blistering 40, Crabtree didn't... Had they both run the similar times, Al would have probably taken the two time Belitnikoff Trophy winner IMO...

[DonkeyKilla]

Um... no.

his numbers and win/loss record would say he did... well maybe just better not a lot better.

Hey, i'm not saying he has near the upside JR does, but the numbers SH had are hard to argue against
SH- 9Games= 13 TDs 8 Ints QB rating 87.5 2,000 yards 62.8 %
JR- 15 Games 13 TDs 8 Ints QB rating 77.1 2,400 yds 53.8%

Shaun was also 5-3 as starter.

[RaiderRobert]

Please... Crabtree excelled only because he played against the inferior DB's in a weak conference in college. He does not have the speed and size to break away and separate from NFL corners. He will be marginal. A #2 at BEST. DHB has the size and speed to be better. He has the "potential" that Crabtree will never have. THAT is why we took him. END of discussion... I thought Raji would be our best pick in round 1, and didn't want a WR until Robiskie (my #1 NFL rated WR). But since we were going WR #1, DHB was the the pick all the way. Crabtree will get eaten alive by NFL DB's, and his 2 cent head won't allow him to get past that, mark my words...

[RaiderRobert]

his numbers and win/loss record would say he did... well maybe just better not a lot better.

Hey, i'm not saying he has near the upside JR does, but the numbers SH had are hard to argue against
SH- 9Games= 13 TDs 8 Ints QB rating 87.5 2,000 yards 62.8 %
JR- 15 Games 13 TDs 8 Ints QB rating 77.1 2,400 yds 53.8%

Shaun was also 5-3 as starter.

SF threw ALOT more than we did...

[Rupert]

I guess my thinking goes deeper. I want to know EXACTLY why the Oakland Raiders passed on the kid. What were those "cons" in his game? Was it merely the foot? Is there something there no one of us sees? Is the kid soft? Was it the offense he came out of ?

Several things:

1) We LOVE fast guys. DHB blows the doors off Crabtree. Advantage DHB.

2) We're going to use the deep pass and play action as much as possible because we're going to run the ball a lot. Crabtree is an underneath receiver who can take it all the way, DHB is an over the top receiver who can take it all the way. Advantage DHB.

3) The Raider don't really believe in balance on offense (Gruden years aside). The Raiders believe in lightning strikes and a fierce ground attack. DHB is a lightning strike, Crabtree would have been the complementary underneath receiver to the deep game (which I why I would have liked the pick). Advantage DHB.

Character? I would like to think the Raiders are the last place to question character off the football field. They have demonstrated a desire to stay away from those with legal troubles, but freaks and wierdos? Bring 'em on. Crabtree being a fashionista diva might have been a problem if anyone knew about it. We didn't hear about it until after he met with Singletary (which still cracks me up, "You mean like dressing up and dolls and stuff? Clothes? You're shitting me right? Tell me you're kidding! Tell ME!" "No no, it's alright." "Stop crying. And stay off that foot until it stops being an owie or I'll kick the living sh..., I mean, send you to bed without dessert.")

That's how I see it.

You can say pro-style offense all you want, and that means something, but not that much. It's not like DHB will come in and be pro bowl from day one and Crabtree won't. They're both going to have to work their way in. DHB also has the luxury of Schillenz and JLH going in with experience and Walker (who sounds almost like a mentor from time to time) knowing the ropes so he can grow without too much pressure from within (the media is another animal altogether).

[hawaiianboy]

Please... Crabtree excelled only because he played against the inferior DB's in a weak conference in college. He does not have the speed and size to break away and separate from NFL corners. A #2 at BEST. DHB has the size and speed to be better.


Sounds like the exact arguments people were using a few years ago as reasons why we should take Roy Williams over Larry Fitzgerald when it was rumored that Al loved the speedy Williams...

[Limee]

DHB also has the luxury of Schillenz and JLH going in with experience and Walker (who sounds almost like a mentor from time to time)
a mentor or a mental?

[Rupert]

a mentor or a mental?

Why "or"? I think he's an "and".

[Madturk]

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/07/will-hefty-demand-lead-to-crabtree-contract-stalemate.html


Question: Do you think Michael Crabtree is going to hold out or you think he'll sign before the start of training camp? (Andrew W.)



Answer: There is still a week before the practices begin, so it's difficult to predict. Up until now, I thought the sides would be able to hammer out a contract to get Crabtree into training camp without too much difficulty.



However, there are indications that it will be a challenge for the 49ers to get Crabtree signed before the start of training camp. Again, there is still a lot of time to get something accomplished - and only two first-round picks have signed deals -- but the 49ers and Crabtree are currently far apart in their negotiations.



If history tells us anything it's that Crabtree's agent, Eugene Parker, does not mind engaging in holdout tactics. (Technically, an unsigned rookie is not a "holdout" because no contract has been agreed upon. I'll try my best to refrain from calling it a holdout. Rather, it's a contract stalemate.)



At least four of Parker's clients had contract issues last season. Bills tackle Jason Peters skipped 43 days and missed the season opener. Rams running back Steven Jackson held out for 27 days before signing a new contract. Bears return man Devin Hester did not report for the first two days of camp before signing a new deal. And Cardinals rookie cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie missed two practices before signing his contract.

[NIPS]

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/07/will-hefty-demand-lead-to-crabtree-contract-stalemate.html


Question: Do you think Michael Crabtree is going to hold out or you think he'll sign before the start of training camp? (Andrew W.)



Answer: There is still a week before the practices begin, so it's difficult to predict. Up until now, I thought the sides would be able to hammer out a contract to get Crabtree into training camp without too much difficulty.



However, there are indications that it will be a challenge for the 49ers to get Crabtree signed before the start of training camp. Again, there is still a lot of time to get something accomplished - and only two first-round picks have signed deals -- but the 49ers and Crabtree are currently far apart in their negotiations.



If history tells us anything it's that Crabtree's agent, Eugene Parker, does not mind engaging in holdout tactics. (Technically, an unsigned rookie is not a "holdout" because no contract has been agreed upon. I'll try my best to refrain from calling it a holdout. Rather, it's a contract stalemate.)



At least four of Parker's clients had contract issues last season. Bills tackle Jason Peters skipped 43 days and missed the season opener. Rams running back Steven Jackson held out for 27 days before signing a new contract. Bears return man Devin Hester did not report for the first two days of camp before signing a new deal. And Cardinals rookie cornerback Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie missed two practices before signing his contract.

Good stuff - lets all get ready to hear the reason why he didnt put up big numbers is because he held

I said the guy always got hurt - constantly being help off the field or hopping after a catch

Now I'm hearing he wants top 5 money

He wants to be paid more than DHB

Fuckin funny

Good luck with that shitbag Niners

[DarthRaidor]

Good stuff - lets all get ready to hear the reason why he didnt put up big numbers is because he held

I said the guy always got hurt - constantly being help off the field or hopping after a catch

Now I'm hearing he wants top 5 money

He wants to be paid more than DHB

Fuckin funny

Good luck with that shitbag Niners

Something told me this would happen. This would've been a headache that we didn't need.

[raiderdog]

I personally don't have anything to say about this Craptree debate but I did want to say this is some funny shit...

Crabtree being a fashionista diva might have been a problem if anyone knew about it. We didn't hear about it until after he met with Singletary (which still cracks me up, "You mean like dressing up and dolls and stuff? Clothes? You're shitting me right? Tell me you're kidding! Tell ME!" "No no, it's alright." "Stop crying. And stay off that foot until it stops being an owie or I'll kick the living sh..., I mean, send you to bed without dessert.")

Now that's funny and I don't care who you are. That's fuckin funny. Hate the Niners...love Singletary!

Keep on bringin the good stuff Rupert!

[Xplosive]

there is a story out now that crabtree wants to get paid like a number 1 pick lmao... he wants the same salary as Stafford and more than any top 5 pick lol...

glad we didnt select him

Geaux Raiders

X

[TommyGirl]

Wait. Crabtree hasn't signed yet?

I need to get out more.

[Crow]

You knew Oakland didn't draft him, right? Just checking.

[Rupert]

I was wondering why we were worrying about Cabtree's contract status.

And DHB's contract status?

Yep, both guys are signed, sealed, and delivered.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

[s.dot88]

Crabtree has a lot more opp to get the ball in SF than DHB does in Oakland. Not that it matters.

i disagree

singletary has stated over and over that they wont just be a run-first team, but that theyll be closer to a run-only team.

Gore and the new rookie RB they got will eat a lot of touches, and SFO has a stable of young WRs that are all pretty decent with Hill and Morgan with vets like Battle and Bruce, so I dont think Crabs opportunity is all that great, especially when you take into account that he's missed out on a lot of the offseason activities and isnt very popular.

[Crow]

i disagree

singletary has stated over and over that they wont just be a run-first team, but that theyll be closer to a run-only team.

Gore and the new rookie RB they got will eat a lot of touches, and SFO has a stable of young WRs that are all pretty decent with Hill and Morgan with vets like Battle and Bruce, so I dont think Crabs opportunity is all that great, especially when you take into account that he's missed out on a lot of the offseason activities and isnt very popular.

Sounds identical to Carlos Francis-Bey's situation in Oakland.

Run first, run often: Check
Stable of HBs that need feeding: Check
Other young WRs with a year or two of experience that the rook doesn't have: Check
Missed a lot of time due to injury: Check

From where I sit, the opportunity is about equal.

Neither has a QB who can hit the broad side of a barn from the inside, so it'll come down to how they're used. Francis-Bey is a clear-out receiver. The gimmick monkey from TTU is a possession guy. Odds are, the possession guy will get far more looks than the clear-out guy.

[Birdwell]

Francis-Bey is a clear-out receiver. The gimmick monkey from TTU is a possession guy. Odds are, the possession guy will get far more looks than the clear-out guy.

While premise is quite true, it depends upon the possession receiver being able to get open. Don't know that the gimmick monkey (I really like that term, mind if I use it?) can reliably do that in this league. Normally it's the clear out guy who gets to line up off the line. If Crabtree has to fight through press coverage, he's shown nothing so far to suggest he'll be any good at it.

[Crow]

I have my doubts about Crabtree as well. Nevermind the 'tude or the cracked foot, although they do warrant mentioning. You said it yourself: Can he get off the jam? There's not a lot of man press being played against those gadget offenses, and even if you wanted to, how do you jam a guy on a bubble screen?

If San Fran is smart, and I don't personally take Singletary to be a dummy, they'll use a lot of motion, the way the offense here used to do with Timmah. Not so easy to jam a moving target. And, of course, throw him a bone. Bubble screens here and there, a quick hitch, maybe.

Then again, he's not exactly a small fella. Maybe with some practice, he'll learn to use his hands to get off the line and run pro routes. I don't look for that to happen this season, but I've been surprised before.

All that being said, Eugene Monroe and B.J. Raji are the guys I'll be watching with interest. Those were the wagons I got on. Never wanted Crabtree, so the joining at the hip with DHB bores the hell out of me.

[s.dot88]

Sounds identical to Carlos Francis-Bey's situation in Oakland.

Run first, run often: Check
Stable of HBs that need feeding: Check
Other young WRs with a year or two of experience that the rook doesn't have: Check
Missed a lot of time due to injury: Check

From where I sit, the opportunity is about equal.

Neither has a QB who can hit the broad side of a barn from the inside, so it'll come down to how they're used. Francis-Bey is a clear-out receiver. The gimmick monkey from TTU is a possession guy. Odds are, the possession guy will get far more looks than the clear-out guy.

Which is basically my point. I never said DHBs situation was better, I was just pointing out that crabtree isn't in the best position either.

[DonkeyKilla]

i disagree

singletary has stated over and over that they wont just be a run-first team, but that theyll be closer to a run-only team.

Gore and the new rookie RB they got will eat a lot of touches, and SFO has a stable of young WRs that are all pretty decent with Hill and Morgan with vets like Battle and Bruce, so I dont think Crabs opportunity is all that great, especially when you take into account that he's missed out on a lot of the offseason activities and isnt very popular.

well- let's just call it a gentlemen's be then... i bet you Crabs gets a lot more catches/yards than DHB does this year.
Funny how all of a sudden crabtree doesn't have what it takes in the NFL because we didn't take him... he was the consensus best WR in the draft, find me a draft board that had anyone above him besides Al's. Also his situation is much better suited to getting more touches in SF even if they lean more run.
I think DHB will be good too but will take longer to develop, but I think a lot of people here want to bash on crabs just to try and justify Al's thinking...

[Random Dude]

The more I read about Crapfoot, the more I am glad Al passed. I would have loved to see Raji in Silver and Black, but I ain't crying over this dude. He didn't want to be a Raider anyway. Fuck em.

[BigTron]

well- let's just call it a gentlemen's be then... i bet you Crabs gets a lot more catches/yards than DHB does this year.
Funny how all of a sudden crabtree doesn't have what it takes in the NFL because we didn't take him... he was the consensus best WR in the draft, find me a draft board that had anyone above him besides Al's. Also his situation is much better suited to getting more touches in SF even if they lean more run.
I think DHB will be good too but will take longer to develop, but I think a lot of people here want to bash on crabs just to try and justify Al's thinking...

Granted. But if we took Crabtree everyone would say he is the next Mike Williams and he is a Diva and he is injured etc. People just spin everything negatively when it comes to the Raiders. Crabs foot injury and the crying thing would have 42 threads in here by now.... lets be honest. All the Wr's had their flaws

Crabs - Diva? Injuries? Gimmick Offense? How fast is he 4.5 or 4.6/4.7?

DHB- Little production, questionable hands

Maclin - undersized, gimmick offense, major knee injury history, not a true #1 body

Its still a guessing game no matter who people had ranked #1. Just be happy we got the tallest fastest guy with the least character flaws. Hopefully the kid can play football and works to use all his ridiculous talent. Lets be honest, most big college football fans have heard of DHB for years. He is a CJohnson type specimen... not as sick as CJ but in the ballpark. I mean he is faster than Megatron. Just because Al Davis is obsessed with speed doesnt make it worthless. Speed Kills. Lets give the kid some TC reps before we cut him OK haha. This guy is on a short leash and WR's take time to grow in this league.

[Raider Nation]

I just read a blurb that said Crabtree's agent has asked the 49ers for "top-3" money. Now I'm sure this is mostly a negotiating ploy but given the fact that these salaries are slotted pretty tightly, I find this amusing.

[DonkeyKilla]

Granted. But if we took Crabtree everyone would say he is the next Mike Williams and he is a Diva and he is injured etc. People just spin everything negatively when it comes to the Raiders. Crabs foot injury and the crying thing would have 42 threads in here by now.... lets be honest. All the Wr's had their flaws

Crabs - Diva? Injuries? Gimmick Offense? How fast is he 4.5 or 4.6/4.7?

DHB- Little production, questionable hands

Maclin - undersized, gimmick offense, major knee injury history, not a true #1 body

Its still a guessing game no matter who people had ranked #1. Just be happy we got the tallest fastest guy with the least character flaws. Hopefully the kid can play football and works to use all his ridiculous talent. Lets be honest, most big college football fans have heard of DHB for years. He is a CJohnson type specimen... not as sick as CJ but in the ballpark. I mean he is faster than Megatron. Just because Al Davis is obsessed with speed doesnt make it worthless. Speed Kills. Lets give the kid some TC reps before we cut him OK haha. This guy is on a short leash and WR's take time to grow in this league.

I like DHB- could definitely turn out to be the better player in the long run... i was just refuting whether or not he'd have a better season and if he's in a better situation than DHB to have an impact. I would have preferred we drafted Raji personally. However, i disagree that people would have beat us up for drafting crabtree- they would have applauded the pick. Every board had him as the top rated reciever- again that don't mean shit. People applauded when we drafted Gallery.

[massraider]

well- let's just call it a gentlemen's be then... i bet you Crabs gets a lot more catches/yards than DHB does this year.
Funny how all of a sudden crabtree doesn't have what it takes in the NFL because we didn't take him... he was the consensus best WR in the draft, find me a draft board that had anyone above him besides Al's. Also his situation is much better suited to getting more touches in SF even if they lean more run.
I think DHB will be good too but will take longer to develop, but I think a lot of people here want to bash on crabs just to try and justify Al's thinking...

There was a lot of people round here that didn't want Crabtree before the draft (I did). You are having a case of selective memory, there wasn't a massive groundswell of Crabtree support in March/April.

[Crow]

Which is basically my point. I never said DHBs situation was better, I was just pointing out that crabtree isn't in the best position either.

Exactly. They're in the same situation. The difference being that Crabtree will get more looks/opportunities just by the nature of his game compared to DHB's.

If Russell had the accuracy of the town drunk with a scatter blaster, the track guy Al drafted might have a fighting chance to make a couple plays as a rookie. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

[Crow]

He is a CJohnson type specimen...

Say wuh?

[raiderdog]

Can you say Prima Donna. That's Ballet talk for "could be gay".


Crabtree contract screwing up the top ten?
Posted by Mike Florio on July 27, 2009 6:48 PM ET
NFL_crabtree.jpgA league source tells us that the attempt by agent Eugene Parker to bust the slotting system for receiver Michael Crabtree, the tenth overall pick in the draft, is contributing to the sssslow pace of contracts at the top of the draft.

Per the source, other agents are watching and waiting the Crabtree negotiations, curious as to whether Parker busts the formula. (Mike Klis of the Denver Post made a similar observation earlier today.)

The reason is simple. If Crabtree gets more than what he's supposed to get at No. 10, then other players will try to get even more, based on the contract Crabtree actually gets at No. 10.

And this gets back to the reality that CAA and Athletes First represent, between them, 14 of 32 first-round picks. Success by Crabtree would have a magnified impact for these two mega-agencies.

And so those two mega-agencies could be inclined to hold their guys out until Crabtree signs.

The only problem? As we hear it, the Niners won't flinch on this one.

Then again, it's hard to believe much of anything that we hear when it comes to first-round contracts.

[Crow]

Divas. Trash, all of 'em.

[Rupert]

Say wuh?

Maybe he means well hydrated with no drugs. :shrug:

[Crow]

Maybe he means well hydrated with no drugs. :shrug:

Really white teeth, maybe?

[BigTron]

Say wuh?

First off I said "He is a CJohnson type specimen... not as sick as CJ but in the ballpark."




DHB / CJ

Both of these WR's have great size:

CJ is a monster at 6'5 235 / DHB is a hair off 6'3 215



40 Yard Dash : 4.3 seconds / 4.35 seconds
Bench Press : 16.0 reps / N/A
Vertical Jump : 38.5 inches / 42.5 inches
3 Cone Drill : 6.8 seconds / N/A
20 Yard Shuttle : 4.18 seconds / 4.19 seconds

Calvin Johnson is one of the best prospects ever. So comparing anyone to him is kinda tough. But there has not been many guys with Heyward-Bey's size and athleticism. I understand he is not polished and is going to take some time to develop. If I'm the coach and hardworking kid with that kind of freakish talent is on my team... im thinking about making him the focus of the passing game.

[Crow]

First off I said "He is a CJohnson type specimen... not as sick as CJ but in the ballpark."




DHB / CJ

Both of these WR's have great size:

CJ is a monster at 6'5 235 / DHB is a hair off 6'3 215



40 Yard Dash : 4.3 seconds / 4.35 seconds
Bench Press : 16.0 reps / N/A
Vertical Jump : 38.5 inches / 42.5 inches
3 Cone Drill : 6.8 seconds / N/A
20 Yard Shuttle : 4.18 seconds / 4.19 seconds

Calvin Johnson is one of the best prospects ever. So comparing anyone to him is kinda tough. But there has not been many guys with Heyward-Bey's size and athleticism. I understand he is not polished and is going to take some time to develop but if I'm the coach and hardworking kid with that kind of freakish talent is a great chance to develop of great WR.

He looks more like an Alvis Whitted type specimen. Fast, decent size, minimal route tree, inconsistent hands.

Seriously, raising the bar that high with your comparisons is good for shock value, but that's about it. The only guy I'd compare with CJ right now is Fitzgerald, and Johnson is currently trying to reach that level himself.

[BigTron]

I like DHB- could definitely turn out to be the better player in the long run... i was just refuting whether or not he'd have a better season and if he's in a better situation than DHB to have an impact. I would have preferred we drafted Raji personally. However, i disagree that people would have beat us up for drafting crabtree- they would have applauded the pick. Every board had him as the top rated reciever- again that don't mean shit. People applauded when we drafted Gallery.

They would of applauded the pick. Then said our coach made him cry and our franchise is so stupid we already are destroying M.Crabtree's career! Then when they got wind of Crabtree not getting enough money they would spin it directly to Al Davis and bash him. Meanwhile all the posters on here would be screaming about the gimmick offense and his nagging injuries. The also would point out that JaMarcus isnt an accurate short passer and AL wants to go deep and Crabtree doesnt fit etc....


come on... You think things are ever good for a Raiders fan in the offseason? We can do no right by the media and most fans are fed up with losing. I believe this is what the term "losing culture" refers to.

[Jack's sore libido]

Seriously, raising the bar that high with your comparisons is good for shock value, but that's about it. T

Just as dropping it so low with your comparison to Alvis bygod Whitted -- a 7th-round pick, never a legit first-round prospect -- is good for shock value, but that's about it.

[DonkeyKilla]

They would of applauded the pick. Then said our coach made him cry and our franchise is so stupid we already are destroying M.Crabtree's career! Then when they got wind of Crabtree not getting enough money they would spin it directly to Al Davis and bash him. Meanwhile all the posters on here would be screaming about the gimmick offense and his nagging injuries. The also would point out that JaMarcus isnt an accurate short passer and AL wants to go deep and Crabtree doesnt fit etc....


come on... You think things are ever good for a Raiders fan in the offseason? We can do no right by the media and most fans are fed up with losing. I believe this is what the term "losing culture" refers to.

yeah.. maybe. Either way, i'll be pissed as long as we contine to address neither the O-line or the defensive line in a meaninful way every draft. i don't care who we have at WR and RB and DB... they are pretty much worthless when we get manhandled every sunday at the line of scrimmage. we and everyone else should be bashing on the Raider draft until they figure that shit out.

[BigTron]

Crow "He looks more like an Alvis Whitted type specimen. Fast, decent size, minimal route tree, inconsistent hands."

"Seriously, raising the bar that high with your comparisons is good for shock value, but that's about it. The only guy I'd compare with CJ right now is Fitzgerald, and Johnson is currently trying to reach that level himself."


Wow really you just did the exact opposite haha. Alvis Whitted should have been a 1st round draft pick then...? Give me a break.
The combine broadcast said DHB was the fastest WR in 6 years... the dude is 6'3.

Im comparing the rareness of a prospect in Bey against another former rare prospect in CJ. They are not the same style of player or skill level just to make that clear. I dont expect DHB to become Calvin Johnson. What I am saying is our young WR has undeniable physical prowess and god given talents that make him a rare specimen like CJ. These guys dont come and go every year... DHB just happens to be a boom or bust pick where CJ was a lock. I am very thrilled our WR core has a very young player with this much talent on the roster. Its exactly what the Wr core needed. A young player with tons of potential who can develop into a #1 WR.

Im not sure how much MD football you watch, but living in MD I see plenty. I even attend the occasional one. DHB was the best prospect at MD and I have watched him specifically play for years. He is a good football player but he does need some work. However its not entirely his fault he was stuck in a terrible run 1st offense getting doubled. Its no different than inflated stats like T.Tech Wr's have? Its the opposite as well. DHB doesnt have bad hands he just doesnt have great natural ones. That is some re-spewed garbage from copy and paste draft websites.

I liked Crabtree and Maclin just as much as DHB also. Just for the record. But It was always clear who had the highest ceiling and floor as a #1.

[BigTron]

yeah.. maybe. Either way, i'll be pissed as long as we contine to address neither the O-line or the defensive line in a meaninful way every draft. i don't care who we have at WR and RB and DB... they are pretty much worthless when we get manhandled every sunday at the line of scrimmage. we and everyone else should be bashing on the Raider draft until they figure that shit out.

No problems with that its long overdue. We need to address that shit next year b/c there is a ton of beef in the draft.

[Jack's sore libido]

The biggest physical difference between Calvin Johnson and DHB is Johnson's body control. The things he did at Ga. Tech to make catches were just sick. Combine that with his muscular superiority to Bey (who is a much skinnier version), and the considerable gap in their productivity, and you have to expect people to laugh you out of the room for putting them in the same sentence.

[BigTron]

The biggest physical difference between Calvin Johnson and DHB is Johnson's body control. The things he did at Ga. Tech to make catches were just sick. Combine that with his muscular superiority to Bey (who is a much skinnier version), and the considerable gap in their productivity, and you have to expect people to laugh you out of the room for putting them in the same sentence.

You must be overlooking the 4.2 40 he ran at MD. The dude might be the fastest WR in the NFL. If not he is up there. That 4.3 flat at the combine was not his best work. I just dont sleep on that kind of size and speed. I understand what kind of prospect CJ was, key word prospect. Im thinking about the future and what kind of weapon this guy could be. That what the draft is all about IMO. Maclin was small, Carbtree was slow we needed a #1 in a vertical offense. It makes sense. DHB is could have stayed another year at MD in that dreadful offense to help his stock i guess...

[Jack's sore libido]

I'm not overlooking it. His speed is great, but it's not any better than Calvin Johnson's.

[Crow]

Crow "He looks more like an Alvis Whitted type specimen. Fast, decent size, minimal route tree, inconsistent hands."

"Seriously, raising the bar that high with your comparisons is good for shock value, but that's about it. The only guy I'd compare with CJ right now is Fitzgerald, and Johnson is currently trying to reach that level himself."


Wow really you just did the exact opposite haha.

Caught that, did ya? ;)

Im comparing the rareness of a prospect in Bey against another former rare prospect in CJ. They are not the same style of player or skill level just to make that clear. I dont expect DHB to become Calvin Johnson. What I am saying is our young WR has undeniable physical prowess and god given talents that make him a rare specimen like CJ.

And you're still overstating his skillset. There's no reason to invoke the name of Mighty Megatron when referring to DHB. He's a tall, fast guy. That's it. There's nothing all that special about his being tall and fast. Tall and fast does not make you a football player.


I liked Crabtree and Maclin just as much as DHB also. Just for the record. But It was always clear who had the highest ceiling and floor as a #1.

I didn't want any of the three, if that means anything.

[BigTron]

I'm not overlooking it. His speed is great, but it's not any better than Calvin Johnson's.

Look I dont want to beat a dead horse here haha. I admitted that CJ was mayeb the best WR prospect of all time and im pointing out that DHB skill set is in the same ballpark. That was the original quote. DHB actually is and was faster he was 4.3 flat to CJ's 4.35 and also had a better cone drill. He also is 6'3 so that gets him into the "Ballpark: IMO. fastest Wr in 6 years at 6'3 = special physical specimen.

CJ is like fucking tight end size so Its hard to even bring that beast up b/c he is lie and unreal madden creation.

AP, DMC, CJ, DHB, V.Davis, M.Williams.... shit even J.Russell are all in this category IMO. Boom or bust players who have unreal potential. On the flip side players like Vick, V.Young, T.Williamson etc bust all the time.

DHB has potential to be a great #1 or a complete bust. Im not sure which one it will be but the potential and work ethic are a go.

[Crow]

I believe what we have here is an inability to separate speed from football talent. DHB has rare speed, yes. But is he a rare football prospect? I would say no. I think most, maybe not here, would agree.

[Jack's sore libido]

Look I dont want to beat a dead horse here haha. I admitted that CJ was mayeb the best WR prospect of all time and im pointing out that DHB skill set is in the same ballpark.

Except it's not. It's nowhere near CJ's skill set.

His speed and height is in the same ballpark. But that's very different than "skill set," now isn't it?

[BigTron]

Except it's not. It's nowhere near CJ's skill set.

His speed and height is in the same ballpark. But that's very different than "skill set," now isn't it?

Olympic speed is a skill? Vertical jumping isnt a skill? I think his WR's skills are being dismissed here and im not sure where the opinion comes from? Kiper? McShay? Dude has skills... like i said i feel confident in this opinion because I actually watch MD football.

Im using the term "ballpark" to express the obvious difference between the players. Not to state I feel they are equal obviously.
I think we are at the part of the convo where we agree to disagree. Its kinda going in circles here... We can pick it up when the pads go on soon enough.


Boom or bust pick.

[Jack's sore libido]

"Skill set" implies more than "height-40-vert" ...

For what it's worth, though, as an FSU guy, I've watched my share of Maryland games, as well.

I watch them every time they play us, and whenever they're playing a game that's meaningful to us (if we're not on at the same time).

[BigTron]

The context of the conversation was based off them being "physical specimens"not football players. Im comparing them as athlete's because both have amazing combine #'s and ideal height/weight/speed/vertical #'s... not many athlete's at WR come thru with those kind of #'s. When DHB is labeled as the fastest WR in 6 years that means he is a special athlete. The guy has WORLD CLASS speed. That is the type of athleticism that is in the same ballpark as CJ IMO. Not equal to but doesnt come along but every 5 years type of attributes.

I totally agree that DHB is not a polished receiver and have never said he was. In fact CJ had a shitty qb @ GT and he put up big #'s... my point is coaching a kid with off the charts talent is fucking exciting to me. He is young and needs work but he could very well be a top % NFL WR with his ability.

His highlight tape is a highlight tape, but it shows him adjusting to ball, running reverse's, winning jumpballs and flat out flying thu the defense's. I cant here all this talk about how he is a bad WR and just tall and fast. What is that based off of? He holds good #'s in MD receiving records and had 5 different QB's on a pathetic run all day offense.

We hire coaches to teach young men how to play the game? What better student than a kid with a good work ethic/huge chip on his shoulders and speed/size to burn?

Crow you argued we have the worst WR core in the league... I agree and we had to address it? This guy fits the vertical O A.Davis wants... problem addressed.

[Crow]

The context of the conversation was based off them being "physical specimens"not football players.

What's the point? :D

[Rupert]

I believe what we have here is an inability to separate speed from football talent. DHB has rare speed, yes. But is he a rare football prospect? I would say no. I think most, maybe not here, would agree.

I think he's a rare football talent. Rare in that he works hard at his craft.

Does he have football skills? Some, but right about average for an entry-level WR.

I separate football skills from athletic skills. He's a rare athlete in that he has football size and olympic athletics.

He's got average body control, average hands (they don't even approach below average and could be considered above average - but just barely), knows the NFL route tree but hasn't had a lot of reps with them (that's where I really think his being in a run-first offense hurts him, not the "lack of production" shit people keep trotting out).

So from a football skills perspective, he's average.

Put it together and he could really be a top 10 WR in the NFL in a couple seasons. But unless everything else on offense gets sorted out (read that QB and pass blocking become above average too) he'll never have Pro Bowl production. And if we stay run-first, whether it's by necessity or not, and Schilenz and JLH deliver on their potential, not to mention Miller staying healthy, there just aren't going to be enough balls to go around for any of our pass-catchers to get Pro Bowl production.

But then again, I dream of the Raiders having that kind of problem.

[BigTron]

What's the point? :D

We are discussing a draft pick who hasnt played a snap in the NFL. Some people are already hating on the guy. Im just pointing out that he is a rare athlete and some people might end up with egg on their face.

Crow your already about to have some served to you by DMC. :D

[Crow]

.

I'll buy that, save for maybe the "top 10 WR" part. For that, he'll need a lot more than what he's got, IMO.

[Crow]

We are discussing a draft pick who hasnt played a snap in the NFL. Some people are already hating on the guy. Im just pointing out that he is a rare athlete and some people might end up with egg on their face.

And I'm just saying that being an athlete is a loooooooong way from being a football player. He may well become a decent player. I just don't see the point of trying to mask the fact that he's more track guy than WR.

Crow your already about to have some served to you by DMC. :D

I doubt it. If it happens, I'd like some grits as well.

[Rupert]

I'll buy that, save for maybe the "top 10 WR" part. For that, he'll need a lot more than what he's got, IMO.

I think for him to get into the top 10, that the passing offense needs to be top 10. And I don't see that happening if we stay run-first, and/or Russell never dials it in.

[Crow]

I think for him to get into the top 10, that the passing offense needs to be top 10. And I don't see that happening if we stay run-first, and/or Russell never dials it in.

I wouldn't say that, unless you're meaning "top 10 in receptions/yards/scores" in a given year. I was thinking along the lines of top 10 overall player at the position.

Either way, to be top 10, he'd have to be the #1 here. First and foremost.

If he reaches that milestone, playing on a run heavy offense will be to his advantage. Lots of play action from 2, or even 1 WR sets. A lot of off coverage (which I expect he'll see if he proves to be someone you don't want to jam for fear of his getting behind you) could give him some weekly RAC opportunities.

Steve Smith is a top 10 WR, and the Panthers aren't exactly a pass first team.

That right there will be what makes or breaks him. Can he work the short areas successfully? If he's just a 7, 8, 9 guy, then his upside probably more resembles Alvin Harper. If he can learn how to work the slant and some crossing routes, he'll have a chance.

[Rupert]

I wouldn't say that, unless you're meaning "top 10 in receptions/yards/scores" in a given year. I was thinking along the lines of top 10 overall player at the position.

Either way, to be top 10, he'd have to be the #1 here. First and foremost.

If he reaches that milestone, playing on a run heavy offense will be to his advantage. Lots of play action from 2, or even 1 WR sets. A lot of off coverage (which I expect he'll see if he proves to be someone you don't want to jam for fear of his getting behind you) could give him some weekly RAC opportunities.

Steve Smith is a top 10 WR, and the Panthers aren't exactly a pass first team.

That right there will be what makes or breaks him. Can he work the short areas successfully? If he's just a 7, 8, 9 guy, then his upside probably more resembles Alvin Harper. If he can learn how to work the slant and some crossing routes, he'll have a chance.

Yeah, but that's really subjective anyway.

I think he will become more than just a 7,8,9 guy. But it's going to take him a couple or three seasons.

It really has a lot to do with coaching and the other players on offense. He's got the raw tools and work ethic. I think he'll stay relatively healthy. The rest falls into the rough category of projection.

The only I guy I see potentially holding him out of the #1 spot at WR here is Schilenz. Schilenz has better body control, better hands, and a little more size. He's a hair slower, maybe not as sudden, but at that level it's splitting hairs. Schilenz has already proven to have added some of the finer points of route running to his skill set. Now if DHB can duplicate that kind of learning rate, we're really set at WR for a while.

All DHB has to do now is prove it. Potential is one thing, delivering another.

[Crow]

I want to him struggle at first, just to compare the posts about JLH's rookie season to DHB's. Is that wrong?

[raiderdog]

This is really going to fuck shit up. This is why Maclin hasn't reported to camp either.

No offer yet from Crabtree camp
Posted by Mike Florio on July 27, 2009 10:52 PM ET
So with the 49ers and receiver Michael Crabtree hunkering down for what could be an extended holdout, how far along have the negotiations progressed?

Um, they haven't.

Per multiple league sources, agent Eugene Parker hasn't even communicated an offer to the team, even though rookies are due to report tomorrow.

There's a theory making the rounds that Crabtree's injured foot hasn't completely healed. And since he couldn't practice anyway, it isn't hurting him to hold out.

If he's healthy, however, he's hurting himself badly by not being there.

Or, as one source delicately put it, "He needs to get his ass in there."

[Crow]

Hahaha! Damn it, boy.

Let's draft ourselves a diva. What could go wrong?

There's a theory making the rounds that Crabtree's injured foot hasn't completely healed. And since he couldn't practice anyway, it isn't hurting him to hold out.

This only makes sense if you don't value mental reps and class study. I kinda think he'll be missing a lot.

[RaiderRobert]

Hahaha! Damn it, boy.

Let's draft ourselves a diva. What could go wrong?



This only makes sense if you don't value mental reps and class study. I kinda think he'll be missing a lot.

Don't kid yourself. Crabtree isn't the type of guy to value mental reps and class study. He thinks he's got more than enough talent and that is all he needs... I got killed in here when saying Crabtree would be a bust because he didn't have it in him. I said I saw it in his eyes. People laughed at me. He is a 1st rate clown. And I said no to him from the very beginning... And he wants top 5 (even top 3, I just heard) money? Forget that guy. I will take DHB and his speed, effort, and work ethic over that douschebag any day. Glad that nutjob went to SF...

[Crow]

I wasn't buying the hype, either. The guy does have some natural talents that you can fall in love with, but I never saw him as a top 10 type of prospect. He's no Fitzgerald/Calvin Johnson. Not be a longshot.

[Madturk]

This is really going to fuck shit up. This is why Maclin hasn't reported to camp either.

No offer yet from Crabtree camp
Posted by Mike Florio on July 27, 2009 10:52 PM ET
So with the 49ers and receiver Michael Crabtree hunkering down for what could be an extended holdout, how far along have the negotiations progressed?

Um, they haven't.

Per multiple league sources, agent Eugene Parker hasn't even communicated an offer to the team, even though rookies are due to report tomorrow.

There's a theory making the rounds that Crabtree's injured foot hasn't completely healed. And since he couldn't practice anyway, it isn't hurting him to hold out.

If he's healthy, however, he's hurting himself badly by not being there.

Or, as one source delicately put it, "He needs to get his ass in there."

I honestly don't think this will impact the DHB negotitations much. I'm sure the Raiders will make him a more than reasonable offer. This Crabtree thing is beginning to sound more and more like sour grapes to me.

[Rupert]

I want to him struggle at first, just to compare the posts about JLH's rookie season to DHB's. Is that wrong?

Well, wrong if you just want to compare posts.

I'd kind of prefer DHB (not struggle) but have to work his way into being a solid player, just like JLH. Guys that have to earn it (unlike some clown named Moss) respect it that much more and are less likely to turn it on and off when they feel like it.

[Raider Bill]

You better have some room on that Crabtree= Fail wagon for me.

[Crow]

You can ride the hump.

[Postmaster]

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/07/heyward-bey-deal-has-brought-49ers-crabtree-no-closer.html

The Raiders have signed Darrius Heyward-Bey, the top receiver chosen in the draft, to a contract. That means the 49ers' deal for Michael Crabtree can't be far behind, right?

Wrong.

Heyward-Bey was the No. 7 overall pick. Crabtree's agent is still seeking a contract commensurate to what a player selected in the top five picks in the draft should receive. Surely, agent Eugene Parker is going to want a deal that exceeds Heyward-Bey's contract.

And, surely, the 49ers are not going to accept those demands any time soon.

Parker is working on the premise that Crabtree should have been a top-five selection. That is one of those if-ifs-and-buts-were-candy-and-nuts-every-day-would-be-Christmas theories. Coincidentally, Parker also represents the No. 3 selection in the draft, defensive lineman Tyson Jackson, whom the Chiefs drafted.

If Parker is working under the should-have-been scenario, does that mean that he feels he should negotiate Jackson's deal as if he were the No. 10 overall pick? (By the way, Jackson remains unsigned, too. The Chiefs open camp tomorrow.)

The fact of the matter is, you are what you are. Nine teams passed on Crabtree and not one team traded up to get him. He was the No. 10 overall pick in the draft, and there's no changing that.

Parker has nobody to blame but himself for Crabtree's drop in draft stock. When word started getting around the league that Crabtree's attitude was a concern, Parker sat around and did nothing to combat that general perception.

Today is Day 3 of Crabtree's absence from training camp. The first practice is scheduled for Saturday. The longer this stalemate lasts, the more damage will be done to Crabtree's rep.

[GRIM]

http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2009/07/heyward-bey-deal-has-brought-49ers-crabtree-no-closer.html

:nono: Shoulda, coulda, woulda... :pound:

[NIPS]

Imma be honest here - I rate Crabtree a tad higher than DHB, talent wise - But the MF'er is a cancer, the next T.O

I gotta figure if stupid didnt get booted outta a couple pre draft interviews like he did from different teams, he might just went top 5-

But the prima Donna my posse, tricked out fuckin Escalade, my shit dont stink Im the next Jerry rice shit aint sittin' well

I'm glad we past on that MF'er

DHB is a great kid - He'll have a longer career than Crabtree- he might not put up the Numbers- but he's a kid thats gonna stick on this team for a long time - sorta like our next Tim Brown.

So much shit pre-draft about college hacks we never hear about - its a hush hush passing only circling the inner NFL GM's and coaches

Crabtree's gonna be a big fuckin headache, a smartass. making it rain, bitches, mansion, 10 cars, 2 full closets full of fag shoes- you get the Nips drift

Much rather have a good clean athelete like Heyward-Bey. To be honest - I really kinda see him in a Torry Holt kinda player with Schillens being Issac Bruce

Safe pick - No problems here with the Nips at all

Dont care about what numbers he puts up - Did he pull the safety over on his speed to open up a huge lane for Zach Miller?

Ya fuckin A right

[Rupert]

Imma be honest here - I rate Crabtree a tad higher than DHB, talent wise - But the MF'er is a cancer, the next T.O

I gotta figure if stupid didnt get booted outta a couple pre draft interviews like he did from different teams, he might just went top 5-

But the prima Donna my posse, tricked out fuckin Escalade, my shit dont stink Im the next Jerry rice shit aint sittin' well

I'm glad we past on that MF'er

DHB is a great kid - He'll have a longer career than Crabtree- he might not put up the Numbers- but he's a kid thats gonna stick on this team for a long time - sorta like our next Tim Brown.

So much shit pre-draft about college hacks we never hear about - its a hush hush passing only circling the inner NFL GM's and coaches

Crabtree's gonna be a big fuckin headache, a smartass. making it rain, bitches, mansion, 10 cars, 2 full closets full of fag shoes- you get the Nips drift

Much rather have a good clean athelete like Heyward-Bey. To be honest - I really kinda see him in a Torry Holt kinda player with Schillens being Issac Bruce

Safe pick - No problems here with the Nips at all

Dont care about what numbers he puts up - Did he pull the safety over on his speed to open up a huge lane for Zach Miller?

Ya fuckin A right

I'm getting a distinch Phillip Buchanon vibe from him.

[GRIM]

Imma be honest here - I rate Crabtree a tad higher than DHB, talent wise - But the MF'er is a cancer, the next T.O

I gotta figure if stupid didnt get booted outta a couple pre draft interviews like he did from different teams, he might just went top 5-

But the prima Donna my posse, tricked out fuckin Escalade, my shit dont stink Im the next Jerry rice shit aint sittin' well

I'm glad we past on that MF'er

DHB is a great kid - He'll have a longer career than Crabtree- he might not put up the Numbers- but he's a kid thats gonna stick on this team for a long time - sorta like our next Tim Brown.

So much shit pre-draft about college hacks we never hear about - its a hush hush passing only circling the inner NFL GM's and coaches

Crabtree's gonna be a big fuckin headache, a smartass. making it rain, bitches, mansion, 10 cars, 2 full closets full of fag shoes- you get the Nips drift

Much rather have a good clean athelete like Heyward-Bey. To be honest - I really kinda see him in a Torry Holt kinda player with Schillens being Issac Bruce

Safe pick - No problems here with the Nips at all

Dont care about what numbers he puts up - Did he pull the safety over on his speed to open up a huge lane for Zach Miller?

Ya fuckin A right


It's like, DHB pulls a hamstring, (As if that's "unusual" for athletes to do in any sport), and all of a sudden he's labeled a "bust".

I'm siding with Nips here. I see a young, talented receiver corps, much like the "Greatest Show On Turf" was and there's nothing saying the Raider organization screwed up by picking DHB at #7 instead of Crabs.

I'm a Raider. Not a hater.

[Postmaster]

It's like, DHB pulls a hamstring, (As if that's "unusual" for athletes to do in any sport), and all of a sudden he's labeled a "bust".

I'm siding with Nips here. I see a young, talented receiver corps, much like the "Greatest Show On Turf" was and there's nothing saying the Raider organization screwed up by picking DHB at #7 instead of Crabs.

I'm a Raider. Not a hater.

"The Greatest Show on Infield Dirt"

[Crow]

It's like, DHB pulls a hamstring, (As if that's "unusual" for athletes to do in any sport), and all of a sudden he's labeled a "bust".

I don't think anyone has said that...

[Raidervinny]

Imma be honest here - I rate Crabtree a tad higher than DHB, talent wise - But the MF'er is a cancer, the next T.O

I gotta figure if stupid didnt get booted outta a couple pre draft interviews like he did from different teams, he might just went top 5-

But the prima Donna my posse, tricked out fuckin Escalade, my shit dont stink Im the next Jerry rice shit aint sittin' well

I'm glad we past on that MF'er

DHB is a great kid - He'll have a longer career than Crabtree- he might not put up the Numbers- but he's a kid thats gonna stick on this team for a long time - sorta like our next Tim Brown.

So much shit pre-draft about college hacks we never hear about - its a hush hush passing only circling the inner NFL GM's and coaches

Crabtree's gonna be a big fuckin headache, a smartass. making it rain, bitches, mansion, 10 cars, 2 full closets full of fag shoes- you get the Nips drift

Much rather have a good clean athelete like Heyward-Bey. To be honest - I really kinda see him in a Torry Holt kinda player with Schillens being Issac Bruce

Safe pick - No problems here with the Nips at all

Dont care about what numbers he puts up - Did he pull the safety over on his speed to open up a huge lane for Zach Miller?

Ya fuckin A right

I hear all this talk about how much of a diva that Crabtree is and how we don't want that. Riiiiiiight...he he was ultra productive and helped lead us to a Super Bowl then every single poster in here would be singing his praises. There have been LOADS of 'look at me' WR's in the NFL that were Pro Bowlers and Hall of Famers. Give me a prima donna that can play (Chad Ocho Cinco, Steve Smith, Michael Irvin, T.O.) over a very nice guy that can't....every freakin' day of the week! Look, I actually like DHB...he seems like a really nice kid and he appears to have his head on straight...but the league is littered with nice guys that worked hard and didn't make it. You gotta have the talent too. Would I rather have a talented nice guy over a talented jerk? You bet. But I would also take the talented jerk over the mediocre nice guy every single time.

And please, please please stop saying that if he opens the field for the underneath routes that he is worth it...because that's just insane. We just spent 23 mill guaranteed...he better do a whole hell of a lot more than allow our TE's and RB's to get a few more receptions.

[Rupert]

I hear all this talk about how much of a diva that Crabtree is and how we don't want that. Riiiiiiight...he he was ultra productive and helped lead us to a Super Bowl then every single poster in here would be singing his praises. There have been LOADS of 'look at me' WR's in the NFL that were Pro Bowlers and Hall of Famers. Give me a prima donna that can play (Chad Ocho Cinco, Steve Smith, Michael Irvin, T.O.) over a very nice guy that can't....every freakin' day of the week! Look, I actually like DHB...he seems like a really nice kid and he appears to have his head on straight...but the league is littered with nice guys that worked hard and didn't make it. You gotta have the talent too. Would I rather have a talented nice guy over a talented jerk? You bet. But I would also take the talented jerk over the mediocre nice guy every single time.

And please, please please stop saying that if he opens the field for the underneath routes that he is worth it...because that's just insane. We just spent 23 mill guaranteed...he better do a whole hell of a lot more than allow our TE's and RB's to get a few more receptions.

I'd pass on the bigger jerks cuz of the shit they'd do to the lockerroom (remember, I'm one of the few, if not the only, guys who hated the Moss trade). I'd let T.O. walk on by, the others, ehh, maybe.

If that's all DHB does his rookie season it's still too little, and that's if he was drafted in the 4th and making rookie minimum. I don't think it's ever wise to essentially play with 10. If a guy is a straight up decoy, defenses will soon ignore him and you're playing 10 on 11.

Decoys ride the bench until you're up big or have a role in an accomplished offense. We're unlikely to be up big and we're not an accomplished offense.

Now, add in the cash. Dude better have 35-50 catches this season and a 14+ YPC average.

[GRIM]

I don't think anyone has said that...

They did. You weren't around. Nor were you paying attention. I can quote over 100 people who said it. Pay attention Crow. :p

[Crow]

They did. You weren't around. Nor were you paying attention. I can quote over 100 people who said it. Pay attention Crow. :p

You ask for too much!

[Postmaster]

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Sunday-at-the-Post-7704.html

2. Speaking of wideouts in the first round, it appears that Michael Crabtree, picked No. 10 by the 49ers, doesn’t want to be the highest-paid player in the draft, just the highest-paid wide receiver. He wants to be paid more than Heyward-Bey, feeling he’s better.

This will get ugly by Sept.

[CrossBones]

Dumbass doesn't understand how the slotting works in the NFL. Good luck with that Michael. :chucle:

[BigTron]

I think Crabtree's attitude would have beena bad fit here. We need guys who are ready to work. Crabtree seems to think he has already done enough in college to prove himself. Not the case...

[Jack's sore libido]

It's too early to judge Crabtree just like it's too early to judge DHB. Hell, Barry Sanders and LaDainian Tomlinson were holdouts right up until the first game of the season.

But I'm sure glad our guy is signed and in camp, working.

[Postmaster]

Crabtree talks still not progressing
Posted by Aaron Wilson on August 2, 2009 7:35 PM ET

The stalemate between the San Francisco 49ers and first-round wide receiver Michael Crabtree continues with no signs of a compromise in sight at this time.

According to Matt Maiocco of the Santa Rosa Press-Democrat, Crabtree's agent, Eugene Parker, and the 49ers remain at an impasse in ongoing contract negotiations.

Citing a league source, Maiocco reports that the 49ers aren't inclined to give in to the Crabtree camp's demands.

Per the report, Crabtree is seeking a contract that rates among the top five selections in the draft.

However, Crabtree, a former Texas Tech star and consensus All-American selection, was drafted 10th overall.

Hence, there's a basic disconnect between the two sides.

So it doesn't look like Crabtree will be reporting to training camp anytime soon, barring some kind of major breakthrough in talks.

[Madturk]

Like Bones alluded to in an earlier post, I guess no one told Crab and his agent about draft slotting. The Raiders weren't the only team to pass on this guy.

[BigTron]

Like Bones alluded to in an earlier post, I guess no one told Crab and his agent about draft slotting. The Raiders weren't the only team to pass on this guy.

Great point. The Jags needed a WR worse than they needed OL. They had just signed a high quality stop gap in Tre Thomas who can still play LT. Then they took another OT in Rnd2. 9 teams passed the "best player in the draft" and thats odd...

[Crow]

Kinda makes you wonder where the agent's head is. You think they like having a client who wants them to push the envelope and try to get way more than they're supposed to get, or do you suppose the agent is quietly thinking "Oh, for fucks sake..."?

Or do you figure the agent is the one pushing this idiocy?

"Trust me, Michael. This will work."

[Rupert]

Kinda makes you wonder where the agent's head is. You think they like having a client who wants them to push the envelope and try to get way more than they're supposed to get, or do you suppose the agent is quietly thinking "Oh, for fucks sake..."?

Or do you figure the agent is the one pushing this idiocy?

"Trust me, Michael. This will work."

You never know in these situations. We all speculated what was going on with Russell too. Sometimes this business of rookie contracts is just too stupid for words.

[Crow]

Ten...twenty...thirty million guaranteed...on stupid.


Where was I when the market on stupid skyrocketed? Someone should have let me know so I could have bought in.

[Rupert]

Ten...twenty...thirty million guaranteed...on stupid.
Any idea what the next CBA talks are going to focus on?

Someone's going to have to give up something substantial to get a rookie salary structure in place.

[Crow]

And there's going to be a mutiny when it happens.

[DarthRaidor]

Man, thank goodness we didn't pick this prick!

http://blogs.usatoday.com/thehuddle/2009/08/rep-michael-crabtree-ready-to-sit-out-09-season-and-reenter-nfl-draft.html

[Crow]

Beat me to it.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/06/source-parker-tells-niners-that-crabtree-will-re-enter-draft/

Source: Parker tells Niners that Crabtree will re-enter draft
Posted by Mike Florio on August 6, 2009 11:52 AM ET
The situation in San Francisco between the 49ers and receiver Michael Crabtree is quickly going from bad to worse.

Per a league source, agent Eugene Parker is telling the 49ers that Crabtree will sit out the season and re-enter the draft in 2010, unless the team gives Crabtree what he wants.

Of course, what Crabtree specifically wants isn't known, since Parker (as multiple sources tell us) still hasn't made a proposal.

There's also a growing chorus of league insiders who are speaking out against the widely-believed effort by Parker to blow up the slotting process with Crabtree. Teams obviously would contend that the unwritten rules of draft-pick negotiation ritual should be honored; however, some of the agents who arguably would benefit from the introduction of chaos privately have described efforts to blow the curve as "inappropriate" and "unacceptable" and "wrong."

And if Crabtree opts to re-enter the draft next year, the current thinking is that he wouldn't be the first receiver drafted. For now, the guy who is regarded as likely to be the first wideout (and possibly the first overall pick) is Illinois junior Arrelious Benn.

Then again, if Crabtree is picked any higher than No. 10 after having a chance to engage in pre-draft workouts, he'd likely end up with more money than the slotting process currently would pay.

After, of course, waiting a year to get it.

[Crow]

Classic.

[DarthRaidor]

Classic.

I love it! I was no fan of the DHB pick, but that brotha's lookin better and better by the day. If Crabs sit's out this season and re-enter's next year's draft, I predict he will not be a 1st rounder and wouldn't be surprised if he went undrafted.

[Crow]

He won't go undrafted, but he certainly won't go top 10 imo.

I wonder what happens when the next team that drafts him offers less than what the 9ers are offering now.

Teehee.

[NIPS]

He won't go undrafted, but he certainly won't go top 10 imo.

I wonder what happens when the next team that drafts him offers less than what the 9ers are offering now.

Teehee.

I got a good mind to run a 30 minute show and just blast that fool

[Crow]

Sounds like a good way to test drive the nipples to me.

[Jack's sore libido]

Man, I am sooooo glad the Raiders didn't draft this headache.

Next time raider bill starts going off on diva receivers, I'm going to give him a pass.

[Raidervinny]

Man, thank goodness we didn't pick this prick!

http://blogs.usatoday.com/thehuddle/2009/08/rep-michael-crabtree-ready-to-sit-out-09-season-and-reenter-nfl-draft.html


But, if we would have picked him at 7 would he still be wanting more money?

The whole arguement his agent has is that he SHOULD have gone higher. If he had, then he wouldn't have any reason to demand more money.

I think he would have been signed and in camp if we would have picked him.

[Crow]

But, if we would have picked him at 7 would he still be wanting more money?

The whole arguement his agent has is that he SHOULD have gone higher. If he had, then he wouldn't have any reason to demand more money.

I think he would have been signed and in camp if we would have picked him.

Greedy diva bitches always find a reason to demand more money.

[Jack's sore libido]

But, if we would have picked him at 7 would he still be wanting more money?

The whole arguement his agent has is that he SHOULD have gone higher. If he had, then he wouldn't have any reason to demand more money.

I think he would have been signed and in camp if we would have picked him.

He wants No. 3 money, not No. 7 money.

Plus, if the bitch hadn't said he didn't want to play for the Raiders, maybe he would have been picked higher.

He knows the score going in. If you dump on a team in the top 7, you diminish your chances of getting top-7 money.

[Raidervinny]

Greedy diva bitches always find a reason to demand more money.

I'm not saying he's not being greedy...cuz I don't know. But, I will say that I belive this is more about his agent trying to make a splash than it is about Crabtree being a baby. I think his agent is trying to force a bigger deal that is slotted in order to pull in more players in the upcoming years. If you can show a prospective client that you have the balls, and the clout, to pull off the kind of contract he's angling for that will go a long way in their decision making process.

[Raidervinny]

He wants No. 3 money, not No. 7 money.

Plus, if the bitch hadn't said he didn't want to play for the Raiders, maybe he would have been picked higher.

He knows the score going in. If you dump on a team in the top 7, you diminish your chances of getting top-7 money.


Maybe...but we won't know until it becomes knows exactly what is agent is requesting. If that number turns out to be miles away from what we signed DHB for then you're right, he wouldn't have signed with us either. If it turns out to be fairly close to what we offered our pick then it would be reasonable to believe we would have been able to sign him.

Just think he's getting a lot of undue criticim.

[EZRaider]

Oh well, he's not our problem.

T.O. was a problem child for the Niners, too. Maybe they deserve it. Afterall, they got so lucky with Jerry Rice.

[jatfly]

I called this douche bag would pull some BS, like this. I am SO glad we didn't draft him. I hope he goes and sits, and then just to piss him off the 49ers take him again! LOL that would be great.

Also all these rookies still sitting out is just another example of the NFL needed a salary cap for the rookies. Then you don't have to worry about signing these guys, "Here's what you get dummy now get to camp, if you work hard your gonna get that fat deal in 3 or four years"

[DarthRaidor]

But, if we would have picked him at 7 would he still be wanting more money?

The whole arguement his agent has is that he SHOULD have gone higher. If he had, then he wouldn't have any reason to demand more money.

I think he would have been signed and in camp if we would have picked him.

Vinny, bro come on. Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't count when your a rookie. Using your logic, hell there were at least 6 other WR's that had better production than DHB in college. You don't see any of those guys saying " I should've been drafted higher so, I'm going to sit out if they don't pay me as if I had been". When your a rook who didn't work out, didn't run the 40 and cries when your coach gives you an earful you're not going to have the respect going in that Crabs delusionally thinks he's somehow earned.

[Crow]

I'm not saying he's not being greedy...cuz I don't know. But, I will say that I belive this is more about his agent trying to make a splash than it is about Crabtree being a baby. I think his agent is trying to force a bigger deal that is slotted in order to pull in more players in the upcoming years. If you can show a prospective client that you have the balls, and the clout, to pull off the kind of contract he's angling for that will go a long way in their decision making process.

If this was all on his agent, the agent would have been fired by now. If Crabtree re-enters the draft, it's because that's what he wanted to do.

[Jack's sore libido]

Finally, the agent works for the player.

If the player doesn't agree with what the agent is saying, the player makes something else happen.

[DarthRaidor]

I'm not saying he's not being greedy...cuz I don't know. But, I will say that I belive this is more about his agent trying to make a splash than it is about Crabtree being a baby. I think his agent is trying to force a bigger deal that is slotted in order to pull in more players in the upcoming years. If you can show a prospective client that you have the balls, and the clout, to pull off the kind of contract he's angling for that will go a long way in their decision making process.

It wasn't Crabs agent that made this announcement today about sitting the season. It was one of Crabs closest family members and advisors which inclines me to believe that there's truth behind this. Most NFL agents no matter how much of a ball buster he is wouldn't be dumb enough to say this in the media this early on.

[SBISR8RGOAL]

Finally, the agent works for the player.

If the player doesn't agree with what the agent is saying, the player makes something else happen.

Exactly, & this guy has made way too many bad decisions since the Combine!

[Armyr8rfan]

Mike Crabtree = Mike Williams...Reaching for DHB sounds better each and every day. But then again, so does taking Monroe now that Barnes is out. MH and Monroe at T would have been nice.

[Raidervinny]

Vinny, bro come on. Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn't count when your a rookie. Using your logic, hell there were at least 6 other WR's that had better production than DHB in college. You don't see any of those guys saying " I should've been drafted higher so, I'm going to sit out if they don't pay me as if I had been". When your a rook who didn't work out, didn't run the 40 and cries when your coach gives you an earful you're not going to have the respect going in that Crabs delusionally thinks he's somehow earned.


I think ya misunderstood me bro...I wasn't saying that I agreed with the agent on the slotting vs. value aspect. I was just pointing out that his agent believed he should have been taken higher and the fact is that we drafted higher than the 49ers. I was just raising the question of whether his agent would have still wanted the money deserving of a higher pick if we would have picked him at No. 7.

[Raidervinny]

If this was all on his agent, the agent would have been fired by now. If Crabtree re-enters the draft, it's because that's what he wanted to do.

Not necessarily. Scott Boras has made a very comfortable living in using the holdout as leverage with his baseball clients. Reentering the draft is the only leverage a drafted player has. It now comes down to who blinks first.

The guy is a rookie...it's not unthinkable that he would be listening to his agent and trying to let him get the most money that he can for him.

It is going to be interesting to see how this plays out. Will the 49ers allow him to walk and have nothing to show for their 1st round or will Crabtree's agent back down on his demands once the college season begins and some of the WR's demonstrate that they are worthy of a top 10 pick.

[DonkeyKilla]

this hold out is crabs fault just like JR's was his fault.

[Raidervinny]

Finally, the agent works for the player.

If the player doesn't agree with what the agent is saying, the player makes something else happen.


What a crap blanket statement that was. If Crabtree's agent thinks he can get more money for him and has convinced Crabtree that he can make it happen if he's patient then he's wise to allow his agent to do his job.

It's like trusting your broker rather than panic and selling a briefly underperforming stock. Or, trusing your union and going on strike when they tell you that holding out will get you better benefits.

Sometimes it pays to place your trust in someone that knows their job a hell of a lot better than you. Sure, it's a bit of a risk. He could wind up sitting out and getting drafted in an even lower slot. However, the 9ers could panic and give into the agent's demands rather than have nothing to show for their 1st round pick.

[Jack's sore libido]

Not necessarily. Scott Boras has made a very comfortable living in using the holdout as leverage with his baseball clients.

Yes, and every one of his clients had the option to fire him.

They didn't, which illustrates that their priorities lie with a bigger contract ahead of being part of of the team.

I'm not judging them for that choice. It's their right, and often it works out fine.

But these things are NEVER solely the agent's call. Never. The player ALWAYS has a say.

[CrossBones]

If this was all on his agent, the agent would have been fired by now. If Crabtree re-enters the draft, it's because that's what he wanted to do.Right you are brother Crow. I'm not putting this soley on the agent.

Another thing -- don't worry -- he's not sitting out the entire year and re--entering the draft. That is such BS. It's just not going to happen.

And my final thought -- fuck him.

[Raidervinny]

They didn't, which illustrates that their priorities lie with a bigger contract ahead of being part of of the team.

Sorry...don't buy that rationale. Anyone that signs a huge contract is admitting that getting paid is a bigger priority than the team. Otherwise they would all understand that taking up a huge chunk of the cap room makes it more difficult to fill the rest of the roster with talented players.

QUOTE=Jack's sore libido;107761]I'm not judging them for that choice. It's their right, and often it works out fine.[/QUOTE]

That's definitely not what's happening here. People ARE casting judgment, you included, on Crabtree simply because he's choosing to listen to his agent. An agent, by the way, who happens to represent quite a few players.

QUOTE=Jack's sore libido;107761]But these things are NEVER solely the agent's call. Never. The player ALWAYS has a say.[/QUOTE]

You are correct...I'm merely pointing out that choosing to listen to your agent doesn't automatically make you a greedy evil diva either.

[Jack's sore libido]

When you're talking about drawing THIS line in the sand, I think it does make you a diva.

A diva has a right to choose this path, but that don't mean he ain't a diva.

[Raidervinny]

When you're talking about drawing THIS line in the sand, I think it does make you a diva.

A diva has a right to choose this path, but that don't mean he ain't a diva.

Opinion...and one you are entitled to...but not one that I share.

[Xplosive]

AL davis looks like a Genius AGAIN

[Jack's sore libido]

Opinion...and one you are entitled to...but not one that I share.

Fine, but understand that you are in the severe minority.

[Rupert]

I think he's holding out for spur-of-the-moment fashion jaunts to New York, London, and Paris to be excluded from punishable offenses for missing practice.

[Raider Bill]

AL davis looks like a Genius AGAIN

Only if DHB can play, which as of this point, is a big question mark.

If he sucks than the 49ers and Raiders look equally dopey for wasting high picks on a perephial position.

[DarkDays]

Fuck Crabtree I really wanted that bitch I'm glad we did not get her

[Rupert]

Only if DHB can play, which as of this point, is a big question mark.

If he sucks than the 49ers and Raiders look equally dopey for wasting high picks on a perephial position.

I don't think DHB is a BIG question mark, but in the end, yeah, he has to pan out or that pick is as bad as San Fran not landing Crabtree.

[CrossBones]

Agree Rupe.

I don't see how we can evaluate Bey just yet. He had a couple of lousy days at camp following by one terrific day and one OK day. Not sure how we can definitively come to any conclusion on the guy based on anything we've seen so far.

September 14th. That is when the real evaluation day comes or at least starts. I hope like hell this guy is the real deal.

[london raider 2]

AL davis looks like a Genius AGAIN

Oh do fuck off - no-one will know if hes done right until end of this season &
beyond.

You might think DHB is the dogs bollocks but i for one think Crabtree will be a better player.

The proof will be in gametime

Agree?

[Raidervinny]

Fine, but understand that you are in the severe minority.

Sometimes it's lonely being the only one that's right. :D

[DarthRaidor]

Oh do fuck off - no-one will know if hes done right until end of this season &
beyond.

You might think DHB is the dogs bollocks but i for one think Crabtree will be a better player.

The proof will be in gametime

Agree?

The dog's bollocks??? :pound:

[DarkDays]

The dog's bollocks??? :pound:

They say Brits speak English but some of the shit they say is crazy:) now I am sure they say the same about us

[Sabers]

Agree Rupe.

I don't see how we can evaluate Bey just yet. He had a couple of lousy days at camp following by one terrific day and one OK day. Not sure how we can definitively come to any conclusion on the guy based on anything we've seen so far.

September 14th. That is when the real evaluation day comes or at least starts. I hope like hell this guy is the real deal.

If Cliff Branch had been around during the Twitter era, he'd have had Raider fans jumping off of bridges in his first three seasons, never mind his first three practices.

Is DHB a lock for Canton? Of course not. His first few practices won't tell us that. His first few practices won't tell us anything. The kid is raw, but we knew that going in, and so did Al Davis. Meanwhile, he's in camp, putting out effort, putting in work and showing by his attitude that he wants to be here...while the fashionista on the other side of the bay is a camp no-show and threatening to holdout for the season and return to the 2010 draft. Which would you rather have now, Raider brethren? Sounds to me like Al did his homework...on both of them.

Folks need to get a grip.

G.
'09 for COOP and 'CANE!

[Freakshow]

I hope like hell the brass in S.F. don't cave in to this little bitch. Let's see the primadonna back up his words and really sit out the entire year. His stock should be sky high by next April! Classic.

[massraider]

Only if DHB can play, which as of this point, is a big question mark.

If he sucks than the 49ers and Raiders look equally dopey for wasting high picks on a perephial position.

It's a question mark for all rookies, Crabtree, Sanchez, Raji, Monroe, all of them.

I wanted Crabtree as much as anyone, but starting after the Raiders passed on him, and his family basically high-fived, to now getting his adviser/cousin (:rolleyes:) threatening to hold out, it sure is making it easier to root for DHB.



From picks 6-12, there is one guy that isn't waiting to see what Crabtree gets, to see if he can cash in. One guy out there practicing, learning his teams' offense. DHB. Our guy.

And make no mistake, that's what Monroe, Raji, and those other knuckleheads are doing. Waiting to see if Crabtree breaks the slotting system. If you are a Packer fan, you gotta be bullshit that YOUR guy isn't signed because Crabtree wants more money than DHB.


No idea about talent, none of us do, but on the character/hard work scoreboard, it's DHB is crushing Crabtree.

[DarthRaidor]

They say Brits speak English but some of the shit they say is crazy:) now I am sure they say the same about us

Yeah, they spawned the damn language but none of em seem to speak it.

[Limee]

Oh do fuck off - no-one will know if hes done right until end of this season &
beyond.

You might think DHB is the dogs bollocks but i for one think Crabtree will be a better player.

The proof will be in gametime

Agree?
I would rep you for the dog's bollocks comment, but it says I have to give some to some yanks first.:pound:

[Xplosive]

Oh do fuck off - no-one will know if hes done right until end of this season &
beyond.

You might think DHB is the dogs bollocks but i for one think Crabtree will be a better player.

The proof will be in gametime

Agree?

you have to be kidding. the only way crabtree is going to be any good is this 2010 madden, until the updates. he is trying to get matt stafford money, being picked at number 10... lol Singletary will quit before the niners fold to that crap

Not Only Does DHB have crabtree beat in the NFL, he has him beat in brains, WR Ability and Right Now. Crabtree just marice clarrett his carrer unless he signs with san fran.

Because if he does enter the 2010 Draft he will still be the 3rd or 4th good receiver. I know 2 already better than him and they are still in college.



X

[massraider]

you have to be kidding. the only way crabtree is going to be any good is this 2010 madden, until the updates. he is trying to get matt stafford money, being picked at number 10... lol Singletary will quit before the niners fold to that crap

Not Only Does DHB have crabtree beat in the NFL, he has him beat in brains, WR Ability and Right Now. Crabtree just marice clarrett his carrer unless he signs with san fran.

Because if he does enter the 2010 Draft he will still be the 3rd or 4th good receiver. I know 2 already better than him and they are still in college.



X

Tap the brakes. Crabtree could sign in the next two weeks, and play week 1.

Do you have any idea how many holdouts said they would holdout all year, and how few actually do?

Maurice Clarett? Come on, dude.

[Rupert]

Tap the brakes. Crabtree could sign in the next two weeks, and play week 1.

Do you have any idea how many holdouts said they would holdout all year, and how few actually do?

Maurice Clarett? Come on, dude.

He's saying he'd do a Maurice Clarett to his career by sitting out a year.

[CrossBones]

Mentioned it earlier...that "I'll sit out the entire year and re-enter the draft" is a hollow threat if you ask me. Sure. And throw millions away? Not going to happen. SF isn't gonna risk breaking the draft pick slotting formula I don't think. That would just enrage all the other 31 teams and not be a good thing in the end. As if these players aren't making outrageous money already.

[massraider]

Mentioned it earlier...that "I'll sit out the entire year and re-enter the draft" is a hollow threat if you ask me. Sure. And throw millions away? Not going to happen. SF isn't gonna risk breaking the draft pick slotting formula I don't think. That would just enrage all the other 31 teams and not be a good thing in the end. As if these players aren't making outrageous money already.

If Crabtree is still sitting out when the season opens, I will take this threat seriously. Things can change in negotiations in a single day. I am sure there are a lot of agents willing to try and break the slotting system, but you need a player to agree to dig in, and sit out. Maybe parker thinks he has that guy.

To miss a year of earnings, plus a year that gets you closer to free agency, takes some big balls. And some serious stupidity.

BTW, anyone notice that Crabtree's cousin specifically mentioned DHB's contract? Seems they want more than him, just out of principle. God, I hope this lasts forever.

[RaiderRobert]

Yeah, they spawned the damn language but none of em seem to speak it.

But it is wicked HOT when chicks speak it...

[hawaiianboy]

It'll be good if he reenters the draft... That way we can pass on some of those fat linemen and take him with the 15th pick...

[Xplosive]

Tap the brakes. Crabtree could sign in the next two weeks, and play week 1.

Do you have any idea how many holdouts said they would holdout all year, and how few actually do?

Maurice Clarett? Come on, dude.


I wouldnt Give clubfeet, the big money he is asking for. he will regain some respect if he signs with them....

I could respect when Russell did it.

But crabtree has coaching, they have a super weak divsion just like when he was at college lol.. he just knows that foot is done and they want money to cover when he is like Mike williams...

peace...

BEY AREA

X

[massraider]

I wouldnt Give clubfeet, the big money he is asking for. he will regain some respect if he signs with them....

I could respect when Russell did it.

But crabtree has coaching, they have a super weak divsion just like when he was at college lol.. he just knows that foot is done and they want money to cover when he is like Mike williams...

peace...

BEY AREA

X


Nice. That clears everything up. Moving on:

Multiple sources say Parker threatened year-long holdout
Posted by Mike Florio on August 6, 2009 8:37 PM ET

I'll admit that I got a little pissy earlier today regarding the proliferation of reports that accepted at face value the denials from the 49ers that agent Eugene Parker threatened the team that receiver Michael Crabtree will sit out the entire 2009 season if the Niners don't cave in to Parker's demands.

But I'm not sorry for how I responded. I'm sorry for putting myself in position that I had to respond the way I had to respond. (Hey, Antonio Pierce should sell that one to Hallmark. Unless and until he does, it's fair game.)

And given the lingering confusion on this issue, let me be clear. Three sources have now said that Parker made the threat.

One source says that Parker specifically tied a season-long holdout to a contract that exceeds the package that the Raiders gave to Darrius Heyward-Bey with the seventh overall pick in round one.

It previously was believed that Parker was looking for a top-five deal. Apparently, he is aiming two spots lower.

If he'll move only three more spots lower, maybe Crabtree can get to work and prove that he's worth his contract, and more.

Regardless, the threat was made. It would be beyond stupid for Parker to follow through on it, but the threat was made.

Now, if any of you keep sending me links to reports to the contrary, I'm gonna turn this car around and drive home.


Totally awesome. My god, if the reason Crabtree holds out is DHB's contract, well..........that would just be awesome. :koolaid:

[DarthRaidor]

But it is wicked HOT when chicks speak it...

This is true.

[Sleet]

Mentioned it earlier...that "I'll sit out the entire year and re-enter the draft" is a hollow threat if you ask me. Sure. And throw millions away? Not going to happen. SF isn't gonna risk breaking the draft pick slotting formula I don't think. That would just enrage all the other 31 teams and not be a good thing in the end. As if these players aren't making outrageous money already.

Ultimate "agent"/"experts" know best. Because the Mel Kippers of this world said that Craptrip was the best WR in the draft, the agent wants #1 WR money? Who's running this ship. Kipper or 9 teams who passed on the fucker.

SF's fucked. Every day this guy holds out, the less chance he has to start, the fewer tickets they sell, etc., Craptrip's value to the 49ers goes down. But, at the same time, the worst Craptrip can do is being slotted between 8 and 10. Thus, other than being a good teammate and improving his chances to start, he has nothing to lose. He's bending the 49ers over. I guess the kid might know something about that. He's in the right City.

[GRIM]

Glad we steered clear of this crap. He is screwing SFO soooooo bad!
Just think... It could have been us.

[Crow]

Mass sounds like he's getting some romantic tinglings from this carnival of stupidity. Can't blame him. It's pretty fucking amusing.

I just hate seeing a class guy like Singletary having to deal with such garbage.

[Madturk]

I'm wondering if Mike Mitchell is hoping Crab signs before our exhibition game against SF:p

[Crow]

Why? Will Crabtree be returning kicks? ;)

[CrossBones]

Why? Will Crabtree be returning kicks? ;)Maybe that'll be his reward for being such a Diva. Singletary might just kick his ass in the locker room and then banish him to return duties.

Enter MM.

Kick his ass brother! :D

[Crow]

I'm surprised Mike didn't cut loose a little more when asked about the situation. He's become quite mellow in his advanced age.

[Rupert]

I'm surprised Mike didn't cut loose a little more when asked about the situation. He's become quite mellow in his advanced age.

Nah, he knows as a Head Coach you have to be a little more diplomatic. He's seen plenty of today's players just crumble under in-your-face pressure, and Michael "Jesus Juice" Crabtree is one of them. I think Michael Jackson was tougher.

[RF34]

A great editorial/opinion of the Craptree/Niner dilemma

Michael Crabtree going down a dangerous path with holdout (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jeff_pearlman/08/07/crabtree/index.html?eref=sihpT1)

[Crow]

Nah, he knows as a Head Coach you have to be a little more diplomatic. He's seen plenty of today's players just crumble under in-your-face pressure, and Michael "Jesus Juice" Crabtree is one of them. I think Michael Jackson was tougher.

You gonna make that man cry again...

[Madturk]

Niners' draft pick could sit out season

Sunday, September 13, 2009 | Print Entry


At this time -- and that's an important distinction to be made -- there is every expectation that former Texas Tech wide receiver Michael Crabtree will not sign with the San Francisco 49ers and instead will sit out this season and reenter the draft in April, according to multiple sources. The 49ers still want Crabtree, they still think he can make an impact, it's just that no one in the organization can now envision a way in which it would happen. Each side has dug in, remained entrenched in its stance, and shown no signs of budging -- none.

Would be funny as shit if he re-enters the draft next season with a rookie cap in place. The dumbass.

[DarkDays]

Niners' draft pick could sit out season

Sunday, September 13, 2009 | Print Entry


At this time -- and that's an important distinction to be made -- there is every expectation that former Texas Tech wide receiver Michael Crabtree will not sign with the San Francisco 49ers and instead will sit out this season and reenter the draft in April, according to multiple sources. The 49ers still want Crabtree, they still think he can make an impact, it's just that no one in the organization can now envision a way in which it would happen. Each side has dug in, remained entrenched in its stance, and shown no signs of budging -- none.

Would be funny as shit if he re-enters the draft next season with a rookie cap in place. The dumbass.
Ahhh you beat me to it :pound: Where on Earth is Crabtree San Diego?

[RaiderIVlife]

So much for all those Crabtree Jihadists. Say what you will about DHB, I'm glad as hell that we didn't select Crabs.

[Xplosive]

we may give crabtree a look in the draft.

[DarkDays]

we may give crabtree a look in the draft.

In round four next year... :pound:

[Raidervinny]

So much for all those Crabtree Jihadists. Say what you will about DHB, I'm glad as hell that we didn't select Crabs.

Had we drafted him he would have received the contract DHB got...which is what he wants.

[DarthRaidor]

Had we drafted him he would have received the contract DHB got...which is what he wants.

No, had we selected him he would've wanted the contract that Jackson or Curry got.

[Xplosive]

In round four next year... :pound:

haa, good one


X

[Madturk]

No, had we selected him he would've wanted the contract that Jackson or Curry got.


Yeah no shit. He's getting some bad advice from Parker. Guy deserves to slip into the second round next draft if he decides to sit it out this season.

[raiderfreak7]

Yeah no shit. He's getting some bad advice from Parker. Guy deserves to slip into the second round next draft if he decides to sit it out this season.

It really doesn't seem like it' Parkers fault. From what I've heard from Parker is he does use holdouts often, but does end up getting good deals for his clients and typically doesn't make them miss much time.

And anytime a player is asking for top 5 money when he wasn't even drafted in the top 5.....you know its the player, not the agent IMO.

[DonkeyKilla]

and niners sure don't look like they need him...

[Birdwell]

It really doesn't seem like it' Parkers fault. From what I've heard from Parker is he does use holdouts often, but does end up getting good deals for his clients and typically doesn't make them miss much time.

And anytime a player is asking for top 5 money when he wasn't even drafted in the top 5.....you know its the player, not the agent IMO.

Yeah. But if you're the agent, what are you telling your client? If your client is using your time and resources and you know you're not going to get a deal (and commission), why the hell not cut him loose? This situation hurts Parker.

[Birdwell]

we may give crabtree a look in the draft.

What the hell for? I still don't see him getting separation from press coverage in the NFL. And with Schilens, DHB, Murphy and JLH, I don't think we need or can afford to make a pick on a WR in the first four rounds.

Not with the issues we have had for three years (or more) at TR, RG, C and SAM.

And hasn't he proven himself to be the very image of the knucklehead Cable wants no part of?

Better value for us in a guy like Jordan Shipley or Dez Bryant if we want to draft high. Later round picks Dexter McLuster of Jacoby Ford have just as good a chance to succeed in the NFL as the prima donna from Texas Tech. Then there's Russell's old buddy Brandon LaFell.

[raiderfreak7]

Yeah. But if you're the agent, what are you telling your client? If your client is using your time and resources and you know you're not going to get a deal (and commission), why the hell not cut him loose? This situation hurts Parker.

The same reason Jamarcus's agent didn't cut him loose when he was asking for somethiing the Raiders wouldn't give in to. The hope that the other side with flail and give in. And then you make alot of money. And worst case scenario is he goes into next years draft and gets late first round money. Still not terrible.

[YodasBeast]

Or he gets rounds 2-5 money, since teams are less likely to pick him for being a problem child before he ever started.

[Xplosive]

What the hell for? I still don't see him getting separation from press coverage in the NFL. And with Schilens, DHB, Murphy and JLH, I don't think we need or can afford to make a pick on a WR in the first four rounds.

Not with the issues we have had for three years (or more) at TR, RG, C and SAM.

And hasn't he proven himself to be the very image of the knucklehead Cable wants no part of?

Better value for us in a guy like Jordan Shipley or Dez Bryant if we want to draft high. Later round picks Dexter McLuster of Jacoby Ford have just as good a chance to succeed in the NFL as the prima donna from Texas Tech. Then there's Russell's old buddy Brandon LaFell.

whew!... ok bro I will never make that statement around you again... lol crabtree maybe a lil faster than javon walker that would be the only reason he would gett a look.... lol..

We will continue to bring in skill receivers and I know forsure the Raiders will focus on main needs, RG RT, and Defense. I can personally assure you that.

Besides dont be suprised at all if the Raiders make another quality move before the Trade deadline.

X

[Crow]

Had Al drafted Crabtree, he would have overpaid to get him into camp. That's what Al does now. That's part of why other 1st round picks took so long to sign. DHB's contract threw things off to the point where other rookies wanted that type of deal rather than what they had coming in a normal situation.

It's a wasted effort typing all this "I'm sure glad we didn't draft Crabtree." business. I'm glad too, but drafting DHB doesn't was not a superior decision by any means.

DHB signed as quickly as he did because 1) He was overdrafted and was going to get more money than he could have expected anyway, and 2) Al overpaid him (significantly, according to some) rather than giving him a contract more in line with what a 7th overall pick should get as compared to what last year's 7th overall got. Al essentially created holdouts for other teams by doing this. Kinda funny, really. But it's highly unlikely that money would be the issue for Crabtree had Oakland ruined his day by drafting him.

[CrossBones]

Had Al drafted Crabtree, he would have overpaid to get him into camp. That's what Al does now. That's part of why other 1st round picks took so long to sign. DHB's contract threw things off to the point where other rookies wanted that type of deal rather than what they had coming in a normal situation.

It's a wasted effort typing all this "I'm sure glad we didn't draft Crabtree." business. I'm glad too, but drafting DHB doesn't was not a superior decision by any means.

DHB signed as quickly as he did because 1) He was overdrafted and was going to get more money than he could have expected anyway, and 2) Al overpaid him (significantly, according to some) rather than giving him a contract more in line with what a 7th overall pick should get as compared to what last year's 7th overall got. Al essentially created holdouts for other teams by doing this. Kinda funny, really. But it's highly unlikely that money would be the issue for Crabtree had Oakland ruined his day by drafting him.
Bullshit. :mad:

[Crow]

Not really.

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Trenches/entry/view/30825/heyward-beys_deal_causing_ruckus

Heyward-Bey netted $23.5 million guaranteed as part of a player-friendly, five-year deal that will allow him to hit free agency at age 27. The guaranteed money represents a robust 21 percent increase over what the player that went seventh in the draft last year, Saints DT Sedrick Ellis, got.

It's not an astronomical increase in and of itself, but it shakes up what everyone else is trying to do. The standard increase from season to season is around 10%, give or take a little depending on how much finagling goes on. But 20-21%? That's overpaying, my friend. By more than a little bit.

[Crow]

Makes me no difference either way, though. Drafting a WR that high, any of the top 3, was a dumbass thing to do.

[BigTron]

Had Al drafted Crabtree, he would have overpaid to get him into camp. That's what Al does now. That's part of why other 1st round picks took so long to sign. DHB's contract threw things off to the point where other rookies wanted that type of deal rather than what they had coming in a normal situation.

It's a wasted effort typing all this "I'm sure glad we didn't draft Crabtree." business. I'm glad too, but drafting DHB doesn't was not a superior decision by any means.

DHB signed as quickly as he did because 1) He was overdrafted and was going to get more money than he could have expected anyway, and 2) Al overpaid him (significantly, according to some) rather than giving him a contract more in line with what a 7th overall pick should get as compared to what last year's 7th overall got. Al essentially created holdouts for other teams by doing this. Kinda funny, really. But it's highly unlikely that money would be the issue for Crabtree had Oakland ruined his day by drafting him.


Crow... come on buddy. You spin shit like Bahgdad Bob. You dont think that Crabtree is a diva yet? Who the fuck cares about him whining over money. A true baller who deserves to be a high first rounder should want to get into camp and play not sit a year out. I smell Mike Williams part 2. A big slow (by NFL standards) WR with a year of free time?

Its also funny how everyone talks shit about how F'd up Al Davis and the Raiders are, and then they go and use Al Davis's overpaying a pick for grounds to hold the " best player in the draft" out a year?

If AD and Oakland is so nuts, why use what they do as a sticking point? The 49ers have most likely told Eugen Parker to go fuck himself. They arent working on the Al Davis scale and good for them. Crabtree should take his millions STFU and play. I for one am thrilled we dont have a guy like him on this roster. What kind of warning signs of a problem WR do you need to see? DHB is working his ass off in camp and this dude is demanding he be paid more than his draft slot entails. Sounds like a HUGE red flag for Crabs... he needs to fire his agent and get on the roster.

Besides Dez Bryant >>>>>>>>>>>> Crabtree. So he aint going much higher next year. He will lose money before this is done.

Every other draft pick is signed too. SO its hard to blame Oakland for all this.

[Crow]

Crow... come on buddy. You spin shit like Bahgdad Bob. You dont think that Crabtree is a diva yet?

Where did I say, or even imply that? Who's doing the spinning?

Who the fuck cares about him whining over money. A true baller who deserves to be a high first rounder should want to get into camp and play not sit a year out. I smell Mike Williams part 2. A big slow (by NFL standards) WR with a year of free time?

I didn't bump the thread. I don't care about him either way. But the nonsense about DHB being the better pick or that Crabtree wouldn't have gotten his money here is just a little bit silly.

Its also funny how everyone talks shit about how F'd up Al Davis and the Raiders are, and then they go and use Al Davis's overpaying a pick for grounds to hold the " best player in the draft" out a year?

Why is it funny to say that Al is a fuckup, and then point to his specific fuckups?

If AD and Oakland is so nuts, why use what they do as a sticking point? The 49ers have most likely told Eugen Parker to go fuck himself. They arent working on the Al Davis scale and good for them. Crabtree should take his millions STFU and play. I for one am thrilled we dont have a guy like him on this roster. What kind of warning signs of a problem WR do you need to see? DHB is working his ass off in camp and this dude is demanding he be paid more than his draft slot entails. Sounds like a HUGE red flag for Crabs... he needs to fire his agent and get on the roster.

There's a slotting process in the draft. You know this. The basic parameters are already in place from year to year, but the exacts are usually dictated by the contracts that are signed early. When Al gave DHB that ridiculous contract, he threw off the whole slotting process. Most teams managed to not get completely fucked by it. Jacksonville, at #8, gave Monroe a 13% increase over last year's #8 pick, rather than the standard 10-11%. Kudos to the Monroe camp for not trying harder to use Al's idiocy any farther than what they did.

Besides Dez Bryant >>>>>>>>>>>> Crabtree. So he aint going much higher next year. He will lose money before this is done.

He's already lost money. He apparently lost his damn mind before that.

Every other draft pick is signed too. SO its hard to blame Oakland for all this.

Not really. When someone, in this case Al, steps outside the standard operating procedure and gives a rookie a contract that defies everything the rookie slotting system is set up to do, it throws negotiations off for other teams. It's not a hard concept to grasp, unless you're just deliberately trying to defend Al because you're a Raider fan. If that's the case, you may as well just quote scripture. You'll sound just as silly. ;)

[Crow]

No one, least of all me, would imply that Crabtree is anything other than a fucking fool.


My only point of interest in his situation is debating what I would do in San Fran's shoes. Trade him for a #1 pick and try to recoup as much of my losses as I can, or do the spiteful thing and let the little bastard rot for a year, and just charge that lost draft pick to the game.

I lean towards the latter, though a team in SF's situation would do well to try to get some picks for the idiot.

[Birdwell]

No one, least of all me, would imply that Crabtree is anything other than a fucking fool.


My only point of interest in his situation is debating what I would do in San Fran's shoes. Trade him for a #1 pick and try to recoup as much of my losses as I can, or do the spiteful thing and let the little bastard rot for a year, and just charge that lost draft pick to the game.

I lean towards the latter, though a team in SF's situation would do well to try to get some picks for the idiot.

Which team, exactly, do you think would be silly enough to take that trade for Crabtree's sighning rights? The problem remains the same, and very few teams have that kind of cap room -- and most of them for the reason thatthey're not willing to spend.

Choice 1 effectively equals choice 2.

[RZ]

No one, least of all me, would imply that Crabtree is anything other than a fucking fool.


My only point of interest in his situation is debating what I would do in San Fran's shoes. Trade him for a #1 pick and try to recoup as much of my losses as I can, or do the spiteful thing and let the little bastard rot for a year, and just charge that lost draft pick to the game.

I lean towards the latter, though a team in SF's situation would do well to try to get some picks for the idiot.

I don't think Crabtree is tradable at this point. I think that window has passed... don't quote me on it tho.. just something I recall hearing a few weeks ago during one of those debates on an NFL Network segment..

[RaiderRobert]

I don't think Crabtree is tradable at this point. I think that window has passed... don't quote me on it tho.. just something I recall hearing a few weeks ago during one of those debates on an NFL Network segment..

Rookies can't be traded after a certain date. I think it is Aug 22nd.

[Crow]

Which team, exactly, do you think would be silly enough to take that trade for Crabtree's sighning rights? The problem remains the same, and very few teams have that kind of cap room -- and most of them for the reason thatthey're not willing to spend.

Choice 1 effectively equals choice 2.

Camp Crabtree leaked that there were at least two teams calling about trading for Crabtree and were willing to pay him what he wanted. I have my doubts about that. Hard to relay that sort of info to a player's agent without getting hammered for tampering. But, one never knows. There could have been a half dozen teams who either flipped a coin (figuratively speaking) between Crabtree and the player they ended up drafting, or who saw him slide and got all excited until SF pulled the trigger.

It's one of the downfalls of NFL teams and the reason TO still manages to find work. If they think you can produce, your douchebag behavior can be overlooked. If they think his only issue is money, and they think he's worth the contract he wants, why not make that trade if the 9ers will go for it?

Personally, I'd rather have Hakeem Nicks. But that's just me.

[Crow]

I don't think Crabtree is tradable at this point. I think that window has passed... don't quote me on it tho.. just something I recall hearing a few weeks ago during one of those debates on an NFL Network segment..

I really don't know the specifics of that either. It's something to look into, though.

If he can't be traded, that's a wrap. Either he caves, or he waits a year to look like a fool all over again.

[DonkeyKilla]

"We will continue to bring in skill receivers and I know forsure the Raiders will focus on main needs, RG RT, and Defense. I can personally assure you that. "

Music to my ears X.

[RZ]

Article XVI (COLLEGE DRAFT), Section 4b and Section 4c (Signing of Drafted Rookies) in the CBA explains it pretty well. (Page 47).

http://www.nflplayers.com/images/fck/NFL%20COLLECTIVE%20BARGAINING%20AGREEMENT%202006%2 0-%202012.pdf

[BigTron]

Crow.

I agree Al overpaid and it made negotiations hard for all the other teams. But sitting out the year is an extreme thing to do b/c AL Davis and the Raiders overpaid a guy. And the fact that Crabtree is doing it says alot about his personality. I realize you agree with this and also think drafting a WR was foolish. BUT you also cant say typing DHB was a better pick is a waste of time b/c thats just your opinion.

You may really dislike DHB as the #7 pick and thats understandable. But in case you have noticed we are starting 2 rookie WR's tonight.... so that would indicate it was a huge need and a major hole. J.Walker is toast, Higgins is a #4 return guy and Chaz Schilens had less than 20 catches last season. So we basically had to take a WR our JaMarcus would be in bad shape. DHB has the size and speed to fit what this franchise is trying to do. A.K.A Mr.Davis wants to go vertical and score points and loves athletic freaks.

With all that considered its not crazy to think DHB was a better pick. With Crabtree your matching a foolish young diva WR who isnt a vertical threat with this vertical loving owner/strong armed QB. That seems like a worse pick for this team in my opinion.

I also would have liked a DT/OL there... but DHB fills a huge void and has crazy upside.

[RZ]

If Crabtree does not sign with the 49ers by Nov. 17, he will not be eligible to play in 2009. (The Tuesday following week10)

The 49ers hold Crabtree's rights until the day of the 2010 NFL Draft, which means if he intends to re-enter the draft, he cannot work out for individual teams beforehand, participate in the NFL Scouting Combine or even talk to teams interested in his services.

Good Luck with that!

[eleven]

You may really dislike DHB as the #7 pick and thats understandable. But in case you have noticed we are starting 2 rookie WR's tonight.... so that would indicate it was a huge need and a major hole. J.Walker is toast, Higgins is a #4 return guy and Chaz Schilens had less than 20 catches last season. So we basically had to take a WR our JaMarcus would be in bad shape. DHB has the size and speed to fit what this franchise is trying to do. A.K.A Mr.Davis wants to go vertical and score points and loves athletic freaks.



Heard something strange on NFLN last night. Jamie Dukes was saying that the G.M.'s around the league were staying away from Marvin Harrison like the plague.

Whatup widat?

[Crow]

Crow.

I agree Al overpaid and it made negotiations hard for all the other teams. But sitting out the year is an extreme thing to do b/c AL Davis and the Raiders overpaid a guy. And the fact that Crabtree is doing it says alot about his personality. I realize you agree with this and also think drafting a WR was foolish. BUT you also cant say typing DHB was a better pick is a waste of time b/c thats just your opinion.

You may really dislike DHB as the #7 pick and thats understandable. But in case you have noticed we are starting 2 rookie WR's tonight.... so that would indicate it was a huge need and a major hole. J.Walker is toast, Higgins is a #4 return guy and Chaz Schilens had less than 20 catches last season. So we basically had to take a WR our JaMarcus would be in bad shape. DHB has the size and speed to fit what this franchise is trying to do. A.K.A Mr.Davis wants to go vertical and score points and loves athletic freaks.

With all that considered its not crazy to think DHB was a better pick. With Crabtree your matching a foolish young diva WR who isnt a vertical threat with this vertical loving owner/strong armed QB. That seems like a worse pick for this team in my opinion.

I also would have liked a DT/OL there... but DHB fills a huge void and has crazy upside.

The team had a void at the run really fast and drop passes position? Maybe Todd Watkins has a role after all.

No sense in rehashing the draft, but there were undeniably better prospects available at areas of equal or greater need. That alone makes the DHB pick dumb, and a typical Al Davis move.

[Crow]

If Crabtree does not sign with the 49ers by Nov. 17, he will not be eligible to play in 2009. (The Tuesday following week10)

The 49ers hold Crabtree's rights until the day of the 2010 NFL Draft, which means if he intends to re-enter the draft, he cannot work out for individual teams beforehand, participate in the NFL Scouting Combine or even talk to teams interested in his services.

Good Luck with that!

I look forward with much anticipation to his futile attempts to circumvent and appeal that rule. We may even get to watch a grown bitch cry. I'm for that.

[BigTron]

Haha well Ill wait to see DHB play before speaking on it. I will give rookies the benefit fo the doubt. Just b/c AL Davis drafts bad isnt the players fault.

[Crow]

Heard something strange on NFLN last night. Jamie Dukes was saying that the G.M.'s around the league were staying away from Marvin Harrison like the plague.

Whatup widat?

Might be his knees. Maybe they think he really killed that guy. I'd still take him and Amani Toomer over the current batch. Dump Walker and Watkins, sign those two...hell. Dump Miller and bring in Wade. Let DHB and Murphy grow into the job rather than being thrown into an impossible situation.

[eleven]

I look forward with much anticipation to his futile attempts to circumvent and appeal that rule. We may even get to watch a grown bitch cry. I'm for that.

Michael Crabtree is dumber than a bag of retards.

[Crow]

Haha well Ill wait to see DHB play before speaking on it. I will give rookies the benefit fo the doubt. Just b/c AL Davis drafts bad isnt the players fault.

No, and DHB may develop into a decent #2 WR. I just can't wrap my head around drafting Alvin Harper in the top 10.

[Crow]

Michael Crabtree is dumber than a bag of retards.

I'm not sure if that's a Larry the Cable Guy line or an original, but I'm sure to recycle that at some point.

[eleven]

I'm not sure if that's a Larry the Cable Guy line or an original, but I'm sure to recycle that at some point.

I wish it was mine.

[Crow]

You use it well, borrowed or not.

[Crow]

Report or go play for the UFL, douche nozzle.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/14/crabtree-is-getting-nervous/

Before Sunday's games, Adam Schefter of ESPN reported that the tea leaves point to 49ers Michael Crabtree re-entering the draft in 2010. FOX's Jay Glazer pointed to mixed signals regarding Crabtree's status.

We're now hearing that, after the 49ers went into Arizona and knocked off the defending NFC champs without Crabtree, the tenth overall pick in the draft is getting nervous.

We're told that 49ers players who spoke with Crabtree after the game detected anxiety on his part, and there's now a sense that he might be getting ready to take the offer that the 49ers have left on the table throughout training camp and the preseason.

Glazer suggested yesterday that the 49ers might begin to modify their offer, now that Crabtree is missing regular-season games. Though it remains to be seen whether the team takes this bold (but wise) step, we think that Crabtree will either break or harden his position to the point of a full-season holdout within the next week or so.

[Rupert]

Report or go play for the UFL, douche nozzle.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/14/crabtree-is-getting-nervous/

They pay more in the UFL anyway, right? :shakehead:

[raiderfreak7]

Michael Crabtree is dumber than a bag of retards.

And gayer than a bag of dicks.

[Crow]

They pay more in the UFL anyway, right? :shakehead:

Because sitting at home pays so much more.

Go sit down. I'll let you know when your input is needed.

[Welsh Raider]

If Crabtree did sit out and re-enter the draft, would the League try and give the 49ers a compensatory pick at the bottom of Round One?

I know it's likely to be 'tough luck' if you choose a numpty, but I wonder whether the League may see it in terms of anything that helps send a message to agents and players not to try and hold teams to ransom on rookie contracts is worth doing.

[Rupert]

Because sitting at home pays so much more.

Go sit down. I'll let you know when your input is needed.
Whenever you open your yap the voice of reason is needed.

[Crow]

I think the league just covers their eyes and hopes it doesn't happen again.