Raider hating in full force....

[Armyr8rfan]

Every where you watch, read the haters are in full force. Darrius and Mike will have plenty of bulletin board material as motivation for the rest of their careers. Just watched Chris Carter diss DHB. And then pretty much the whole Raider organization. Damn, you'd think we just traded a 25 year old Pro Bowl QB for no apparent reason. I have a good feeling, because of our weak division, this will be the year these little pricks get silenced.

[Raidervinny]

Every where you watch, read the haters are in full force. Darrius and Mike will have plenty of bulletin board material as motivation for the rest of their careers. Just watched Chris Carter diss DHB. And then pretty much the whole Raider organization. Damn, you'd think we just traded a 25 year old Pro Bowl QB for no apparent reason. I have a good feeling, because of our weak division, this will be the year these little pricks get silenced.

I don't put much stock into what the Mel Kipers of the world say but when Chris Carter, a soon-to-be Hall of Fame WR breaks down a fellow WR I listen to what he says. If a guy like that can't find anything good to say about DHB then that give me great cause to worry.

[NIPS]

Mayock is a fuckin clown... howdya expect people to take you seriously when you dont even do your homework

I'll tell you what.. Eisen pretty much made Mayock look stupid

And if the NFLN is expecting to get any credibility at all, they had better tell Mayock to start doing his homework

How can Mayock have Mitchell as a 5th-6th rd pick when he just said he's never seen tape of him?

The other clowns are clueless too.. I aint deep on college ball.. But even I knew who Slade Norris was

What an embarrassement for the NFLN

[Armyr8rfan]

I guarantee he did'nt break down "the film", he looked at a quick snippet of a draft guide and read "all ACC Honorable Mention". Then proceeded in lambasting the chioce, then eluded to our record over the last few years. Failing to mention basiclly the whole SB team, which featured probably 3-4 future HOF's and countless Pro Bowl participants, basically disapeered within a season and a half after that because of age/injuries/craziness. And obviously, he did'nt watch the last few games of the season where some pretty good offensive progress was made.

[s.dot88]

Mayock doesnt watch NFL football, its pretty apparent

the guy knows the college game, he's pretty good on picking out top level talent and how they'll translate, but once theyre in the NFL theyre off his radar

the trendy thing to do is to bash this franchise, why wouldnt he do so as well?

[DarthRaidor]

I don't put much stock into what the Mel Kipers of the world say but when Chris Carter, a soon-to-be Hall of Fame WR breaks down a fellow WR I listen to what he says. If a guy like that can't find anything good to say about DHB then that give me great cause to worry.

You know what bothers me? Carter didn't even trash Bey, he only told the truth about his accomplishments which are very few. ACC honorable mention? This is the best that they could find? I would've taken Maclin before Bey. In fact there are 5 WR's that I would've taken before him. Oh well, what's done is done.

[Raider Nation]

Mayock doesnt watch NFL football, its pretty apparent

the guy knows the college game, he's pretty good on picking out top level talent and how they'll translate, but once theyre in the NFL theyre off his radar

the trendy thing to do is to bash this franchise, why wouldnt he do so as well?

What's interesting is Al Davis was thisclose to having Mayock come in and run the scouting team when Jon Kingdon had some health problems 3 years ago. And, quite honestly, I hold Mayock's opinion in high regard when you talk about draftniks... at least the dude played in the NFL. Which is more than Kiper, McShay, Rob Rang, et al can say for themselves.

I could definitely see Mayock having issues with the way Al approaches the draft, but I also think it would make for fascinating war room discussions/decisions.

[Jack's sore libido]

Carter gave GLOWING reports of Mike Williams. How'd that turn out?

Oh yeah, he waited until Williams failed to say that he never thought he'd be any good.

[Postmaster]

Carter has serious hate for the Raiders. All his opinions are slanted with hate in mind. I have never seen him give up an opportunity to trash us. He calls us the cesspool of the NFL. I don't take anything he says seriously. When you hate that much you can't be objective.

[hawaiianboy]

It really doesn't bother me any... Much of it is warranted, much of it is because we've made ourselves easy targets over the years... The only way to stop it is to win...

The only guy who really pisses me off is that bitch ass Trey Wingo because the enjoyment he gets is almost orgasmic... Nothing to do with growing up a Pats guy at all, I'm sure...

[doingthisinsteadofwork]

The Raiders are the scapegoat of the NFL if you don't have anything to say,but are asked to say something just trash the Raiders it always works.

[S and B Executioner]

Look at how fucked up we draft every year, look at our FA classes up til this year, look at our coaching revolving door, look at our W/L RECORD for the past 6 years.

It is easy to see why people bash this organization, we haven't given them any ammo to give us praise. And this draft is no exception!

[hawaiianboy]

Just so people know, SB EX was equally miserable even when we were 12-4... I blame steroids... and the all the botched garden hose enemas... and the Post Office...

[Armyr8rfan]

It really doesn't bother me any... Much of it is warranted, much of it is because we've made ourselves easy targets over the years... The only way to stop it is to win...

The only guy who really pisses me off is that bitch ass Trey Wingo because the enjoyment he gets is almost orgasmic... Nothing to do with growing up a Pats guy at all, I'm sure...

Win, you said it right there. I like this team, I like, as Cable does, the core of this team. And I agree 1,000,000, I FUCKING HATE TREY WINGO!!!! I want to put him in a fucking arm bar and snap that shit!!! I cannot stand that little bastard, he knows NOTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL!!! He reminds me of the sniveling bad guy from Billy Madison..........Rep+ for getting me fired up.

[DarthRaidor]

Look at how fucked up we draft every year, look at our FA classes up til this year, look at our coaching revolving door, look at our W/L RECORD for the past 6 years.

It is easy to see why people bash this organization, we haven't given them any ammo to give us praise. And this draft is no exception!

This pretty much sums it up.

[Raider Bill]

I like how they say you can't pound the rock, then when the D creeps up, throw over them... teams do this all the time.

You need to be able to strech the field horizontally and vertically.

If you can only do 1, you're kinda fucked

[DonkeyKilla]

I like how they say you can't pound the rock, then when the D creeps up, throw over them... teams do this all the time.

You need to be able to strech the field horizontally and vertically.

If you can only do 1, you're kinda fucked

to a degree... you need to be able to run and pass all over the field and keep the D guessing.

That's the Fart Smell offense-- run run and throw the bomb and people know what you are going to do- that shit don't work anymore.

[Jack's sore libido]

Since when does picking a fast guy mean your only passes are going to be 50 yards downfield?

[DonkeyKilla]

i'm just referring to thier run run run and go over the top mantra. That's the bed and breakfast offense and I sure hope it is not on it's way back to Oakland. The comments from Cable just have that ring and it is gettin under my skin. I sure hope they plan (and he's capable) of making plays all over the field.

[Point&Shoot]

to a degree... you need to be able to run and pass all over the field and keep the D guessing.

That's the Fart Smell offense-- run run and throw the bomb and people know what you are going to do- that shit don't work anymore.


Ooooh, now I get it.

When you say Fart Smell, you are actually referring to Raider legend and Hall of Famer, Art Shell.

Wow, that's pretty clever...

[Xplosive]

if the pat's had done this they would call the kid the next randy moss. and would have got a draft grade A. if the raiders do it we get a F.. that F stands for Fuck the league give us our trophys!

Let the Reign begin

GO Raiders

X

[Postmaster]

ESPN Bias and the Oakland Raiders

Lord knows the Raiders don't need me to defend them against the 'Bristol buffoons, otherwise known as ESPN--nevertheless, after reading and watching most of their NFL Draft coverage, (on the internet too) espn.com, it needs to be pointed out ESPN has a blatant bias toward the 'Silver and Black.

This is not a recent phenomenen. It goes back several years, and while much of the ESPN criticism is legitimate, much of it would be far more credible if the characters in this little story didn't have such an obvious vendetta against the Oakland football contingent.

Let's begin with the Raiders' selection of Darrius Heyward-Bey as their first-round draft-pick in the NFL draft.

The selection drew almost universal derision, from ESPN's draft analysts to the NFL Network's contingent. That's not the point, nor the story here.

ESPN's core football team tonsils, including lead analyst Chris Berman, draft honcho Mel Kiper, ex-NFL player Keyshawn Johnson and Steve Young all lamphooned the pick. Chris Mortensen did everything but a five-minute stand-up comedy act in response to the Heyward-Bey selection. That's not surprising given "Mort's" previous dealings and reporting of everything Raiders.

From a football standpoint, the pick was indeed curious, but maybe the Raiders and Al Davis know something we don't know. Maybe we all know more than they do--who the hell knows? It's the NFL draft, mind you, where pundits and "experts" make a living out of telling all of us how great said player is and isn't, and so on and so on, but again, that's not the deal here.

ESPN has never been a friend of the Oakland Raiders and when I say "friend", I'm not talking "buddy-buddy" friendship/camaraderie.

I'm speaking more about the premise of credibility. Berman's love affair with the SF 49ers and Giants is notorious. He's even mentioned it several times in interviews on the network itself. The "Raiduhs" shtick was cute about ten years ago, but Berman continues to think it's funny, a la, "back-back-back". He's never been a particularly objective guy when it comes to Oakland, and his partner on "Countdown", ex-NFL player, Tom Jackson, was a former Denver Bronco. Jackson didn't work the draft, but his anti-Raiders bias is well-known and documented. In his playing days, he once refered to John Madden as a "fatman".

Mortensen is in a league by himself. His distaste for Al Davis and the Raiders organization has been legendary, but when it gets to the point where it affects his reportings, then there's a credibility issue. After all, "Mort" supposedly is deemed by ESPN as an "NFL reporter/'insider". His "commentary" is, for the most part, first-rate and fairly accurate, but he needs to strengthen up the "objectivity" box in his Raiders file because no one takes him seriously when he opines about the Raiders.

To be fair, I've taken shots at the Raiders over their on-field relevance, (or lack there-of) and some of those shots were valid. The coaching antics. The perpetual losing these past six years. Mr. Davis' recent lack of football finesse. The whole shebang. But I'm a commentator, (for the most part) and most certainly don't have the cachet of an ESPN--we all know that; but does ESPN? The "World-Wide Leader"? When it comes to the reporting of the Raiders, nope.

[s.dot88]

who was the writer of that article

[Limee]

Since when does picking a fast guy mean your only passes are going to be 50 yards downfield?

It is obvious, along with fact that fast players can't catch.

[Armyr8rfan]

Watching MM in the Morning, Ron Jaworski says, he HAS WATCHED FILM of DHB, said he was explosive in and out of his cuts, ran THE BEST ROUTES OF THE TOP THREE RECEIVERS as of right now. Had TERRIBLE QB play all three years, he eluded to how everyone bashed the pick, but EVERYONE GAVE THE KID A FIRST ROUND GRADE. Wow, an objective POV, from someone who actually watched film BEFORE talking s**t. I hope he's right.

[Postmaster]

Watching MM in the Morning, Ron Jaworski says, he HAS WATCHED FILM of DHB, said he was explosive in and out of his cuts, ran THE BEST ROUTES OF THE TOP THREE RECEIVERS as of right now. Had TERRIBLE QB play all three years, he eluded to how everyone bashed the pick, but EVERYONE GAVE THE KID A FIRST ROUND GRADE. Wow, an objective POV, from someone who actually watched film BEFORE talking s**t. I hope he's right.

Thanks for that recap. Cable mentioned he ran the best routes out the 4 top WR's. Glad to hear Jaws have the same opinion.

[Postmaster]

who was the writer of that article

This guy...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/lieberman/index

[CrossBones]

Watching MM in the Morning, Ron Jaworski says, he HAS WATCHED FILM of DHB, said he was explosive in and out of his cuts, ran THE BEST ROUTES OF THE TOP THREE RECEIVERS as of right now. Had TERRIBLE QB play all three years, he eluded to how everyone bashed the pick, but EVERYONE GAVE THE KID A FIRST ROUND GRADE. Wow, an objective POV, from someone who actually watched film BEFORE talking s**t. I hope he's right.And, say what you want but Jaworski studies this shit and knows what he's talking about. Not it's up to Bey and the Big Dummy. ;)

[Armyr8rfan]

And, say what you want but Jaworski studies this shit and knows what he's talking about. Not it's up to Bey and the Big Dummy. ;)

Exactly, Chris Carter looked directly at, and read from, a fucking draft almanac, he did not watch any film/tape whatever u wanna call it. Fuck him, neither did Keyshawn, fuck him. As you said, its all up to those two. I think we're gonna be fine. We were making strides BEFORE adding a legitimate first round talent at wideout, a solid (I hope) RT, and a new C. Not to mention the after effect of finishing strong, and keeping our HC. Russell will be better, as will about every skill position player on the O. This O could very well be pretty disgusting from the get go, and continue to get better as
McFadden/Russell/DHB/Bush/Miller/JLH/CS continue to develop.

[jatfly]

here's the link

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/lieberman/detail?entry_id=39136






ESPN Bias and the Oakland Raiders

Lord knows the Raiders don't need me to defend them against the 'Bristol buffoons, otherwise known as ESPN--nevertheless, after reading and watching most of their NFL Draft coverage, (on the internet too) espn.com, it needs to be pointed out ESPN has a blatant bias toward the 'Silver and Black.

This is not a recent phenomenen. It goes back several years, and while much of the ESPN criticism is legitimate, much of it would be far more credible if the characters in this little story didn't have such an obvious vendetta against the Oakland football contingent.

Let's begin with the Raiders' selection of Darrius Heyward-Bey as their first-round draft-pick in the NFL draft.

The selection drew almost universal derision, from ESPN's draft analysts to the NFL Network's contingent. That's not the point, nor the story here.

ESPN's core football team tonsils, including lead analyst Chris Berman, draft honcho Mel Kiper, ex-NFL player Keyshawn Johnson and Steve Young all lamphooned the pick. Chris Mortensen did everything but a five-minute stand-up comedy act in response to the Heyward-Bey selection. That's not surprising given "Mort's" previous dealings and reporting of everything Raiders.

From a football standpoint, the pick was indeed curious, but maybe the Raiders and Al Davis know something we don't know. Maybe we all know more than they do--who the hell knows? It's the NFL draft, mind you, where pundits and "experts" make a living out of telling all of us how great said player is and isn't, and so on and so on, but again, that's not the deal here.

ESPN has never been a friend of the Oakland Raiders and when I say "friend", I'm not talking "buddy-buddy" friendship/camaraderie.

I'm speaking more about the premise of credibility. Berman's love affair with the SF 49ers and Giants is notorious. He's even mentioned it several times in interviews on the network itself. The "Raiduhs" shtick was cute about ten years ago, but Berman continues to think it's funny, a la, "back-back-back". He's never been a particularly objective guy when it comes to Oakland, and his partner on "Countdown", ex-NFL player, Tom Jackson, was a former Denver Bronco. Jackson didn't work the draft, but his anti-Raiders bias is well-known and documented. In his playing days, he once refered to John Madden as a "fatman".

Mortensen is in a league by himself. His distaste for Al Davis and the Raiders organization has been legendary, but when it gets to the point where it affects his reportings, then there's a credibility issue. After all, "Mort" supposedly is deemed by ESPN as an "NFL reporter/'insider". His "commentary" is, for the most part, first-rate and fairly accurate, but he needs to strengthen up the "objectivity" box in his Raiders file because no one takes him seriously when he opines about the Raiders.

To be fair, I've taken shots at the Raiders over their on-field relevance, (or lack there-of) and some of those shots were valid. The coaching antics. The perpetual losing these past six years. Mr. Davis' recent lack of football finesse. The whole shebang. But I'm a commentator, (for the most part) and most certainly don't have the cachet of an ESPN--we all know that; but does ESPN? The "World-Wide Leader"? When it comes to the reporting of the Raiders, nope.

[Raidervinny]

if the pat's had done this they would call the kid the next randy moss. and would have got a draft grade A. if the raiders do it we get a F.. that F stands for Fuck the league give us our trophys!

Let the Reign begin

GO Raiders

X

X...the Pats would never had done something this stupid...that's the point. Bill would have traded back and grabbed him later. Not only would it then be a better value he would have been picking him after Crabtree and Maclin were gone thereby eliminating all of the 2nd guessing by the 'experts' about whether he took the wrong WR.

[Jack's sore libido]

X...the Pats would never had done something this stupid...that's the point.

Oh hush.

The Pats took Logan Mankins in the first round and no one had given him a first-round grade.

The Pats took Vollmer high and he had been given a 5th-round grade.

I don't agree with the DHB pick, but I like what Cable said: Get your guy and don't worry about what everyone else has to say about it.

It's not OUT OF THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY that if you trade down 10 spots, someone else liked Bey more than Maclin, too, and takes him in front of you.

And then don't you look like the perfect fool?

[Raidervinny]

Oh hush.

The Pats took Logan Mankins in the first round and no one had given him a first-round grade.

The Pats took Vollmer high and he had been given a 5th-round grade.

I don't agree with the DHB pick, but I like what Cable said: Get your guy and don't worry about what everyone else has to say about it.

It's not OUT OF THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY that if you trade down 10 spots, someone else liked Bey more than Maclin, too, and takes him in front of you.

And then don't you look like the perfect fool?

Logan Mankins was the last pick of the 1st round...not the 7th pick. I think that's the major point of contention. Look, wasting a 1st round pick is never a good thing, whether it's the 1st pick or the last pick. Having said that, the money that is tied up in the top 10 picks is MUCH greater that that of the bottom 10 picks making it a bigger financial burden on a team if they whiff on a pick taken at the top of the 1st round. I think I'm more pissed off about the money we will have tied up in this guy (needlessly) than him being taken before Crabtree.

10 spots would have been great but I think we could have traded back 5-7 spots and still had our guy...only much cheaper and with a couple more picks to throw away.

LOL...when I heard Cable mention that Bill Walsh quote the first thing I thought was that somewhere Bill was screaming "That's not what I meant!" "I never said to draft guys that you could have picked up as an UFA!"

Oh well, the draft is over, I'm calmed down and I can't wait to see how Mitchell and Joseph are going to play.

[CrossBones]

It's not OUT OF THE REALM OF POSSIBILITY that if you trade down 10 spots, someone else liked Bey more than Maclin, too, and takes him in front of you.

And then don't you look like the perfect fool?Of course if that happened nobody would have ever known. No matter who we picked that guy would have been "our guy all along". :shrug:

[Armyr8rfan]

Ty Jackson, Larry English, and really Moreno, were all reaches. But all were needs/system fits. But they really did'nt receive the flak we did. Mitchell was the big reach, he had better pan out.
Even if Chi-town was taking him at 49, similar guys like Chip Vaughn, were available in round 4. We could have easily stood pat and took E. Brown, or even Brace. But if Mitchell pans out, we'll be fine.

[Jack's sore libido]

Logan Mankins was the last pick of the 1st round...not the 7th pick.

It doesn't matter.

If this kid has a first round grade -- UNIVERSALLY, I might add -- then calling him a BUST at 7 is a fucking joke.

You don't expect a kid taken at 17 to bust. And that's where most pundits had penciled this kid in.

They're taking it out on DHB that the Raiders didn't trade down 10 spots. But who fucking cares? If that's their guy, then that's their guy. Trading down wouldn't make him any less likely to bust.

In the end, the money is more, but a bust is a bust is a bust. If this kid is a productive player, then he'll earn his money -- whether that's top-7 money or top-17 money.

If he's Troy Williamson, then he'd be a bust at 7 OR 17.

[Jack's sore libido]

Of course if that happened nobody would have ever known. No matter who we picked that guy would have been "our guy all along". :shrug:

Hahaha.

That's mostly true.

Cable did mention that he wanted Pascoe, though. Maybe he just let that slip, but he's more frank than past coaches have been allowed to be.

[Raidervinny]

It doesn't matter.

If this kid has a first round grade -- UNIVERSALLY, I might add -- then calling him a BUST at 7 is a fucking joke.

You don't expect a kid taken at 17 to bust. And that's where most pundits had penciled this kid in.

They're taking it out on DHB that the Raiders didn't trade down 10 spots. But who fucking cares? If that's their guy, then that's their guy. Trading down wouldn't make him any less likely to bust.

In the end, the money is more, but a bust is a bust is a bust. If this kid is a productive player, then he'll earn his money -- whether that's top-7 money or top-17 money.

If he's Troy Williamson, then he'd be a bust at 7 OR 17.

True...a bust is a bust no matter where he's picked. The point I'm trying to make (and which I seem to be doing a very poor job of) is the COST of the bust. Last year's #7 pick (Sedrick Ellis) signed a 5 year $49 mill contract with $19.5 mill guaranteed. By comparison the 17th pick (Gosder Cherilus) signed a 5 year $15 mill contact with only $8.9 mill guaranteed. The difference in money paid out to a guy that busts at the 7 spot is MUCH greater that if you have a bust at the 17 spot. The cap hit you would take to cut a bust making that much money is far greater than the cap hit of cutting a guy taken later. To me it's all about the economics. If he busts then we are out at least $20 mill in guaranteed money AND it ties up too much cap space which could hinder our ability to sign free agents.

[Jack's sore libido]

Great, the cost of the bust sucks.

But the cost would suck if he was No. 17, too. Are we really at the point where we're going APESHIT over the money we're paying a guy, rather than over the kind of player he is?

Guess what? If he DOESN'T bust (I know, what a radical concept), none of that will matter.

[Raidervinny]

Great, the cost of the bust sucks.

But the cost would suck if he was No. 17, too. Are we really at the point where we're going APESHIT over the money we're paying a guy, rather than over the kind of player he is?

Guess what? If he DOESN'T bust (I know, what a radical concept), none of that will matter.

I think we have actually. I think, unfortunately, there are quite a few of us that actually expect the guy to bust because so many of our other first rounders have. I know it's a shitty way to look at things but our franchise hasn't really given us a whole lot of positives lately. So, yeah, I definitely think we're at the point where we more concerned over how much a guy is gonna cost us.

If he doesn't bust I will be first in line to eat a plate of crow and take my lumps from the guys on this site. I will also buy (this is on record now) X a DHB jersey.

[CrossBones]

True...a bust is a bust no matter where he's picked. The point I'm trying to make (and which I seem to be doing a very poor job of) is the COST of the bust. Last year's #7 pick (Sedrick Ellis) signed a 5 year $49 mill contract with $19.5 mill guaranteed. By comparison the 17th pick (Gosder Cherilus) signed a 5 year $15 mill contact with only $8.9 mill guaranteed. The difference in money paid out to a guy that busts at the 7 spot is MUCH greater that if you have a bust at the 17 spot. The cap hit you would take to cut a bust making that much money is far greater than the cap hit of cutting a guy taken later. To me it's all about the economics. If he busts then we are out at least $20 mill in guaranteed money AND it ties up too much cap space which could hinder our ability to sign free agents.Vinny, you act as if it is your money.

As Jack and others have pointed out there is no way of knowing if Bey would have been there 10 picks later. It's only conjecture based on the "experts" like Kiper...holy crap...Mel Fucking Kiper? Fuck him. Does he own a football team?

Al Davis runs his football team differently than the reat of the sheep in the NFL. Is it right? I dunno. I wouldn't do it that way but I don't own a pro football team either. That puts me in the same boat with Mel Kiper and the other 100 million football fans who regurgitate what they hear over and over on ESPN and Fox Sports.

As Jack points out, if Bey busts out he'd bust out at 17 just as easily as 7. Doesn't matter. In the end if the Raiders felt that strongly that Bey was the guy for this team then they have no business gambling. If it doesn't matter (like in NE) if the guy is there at 17 or not then it's a different story. And again we have no idea if anybody was willing to trade up. I doubt it.

This is another one of those circular arguments. I didn't like the pick but it's not my money. I'm gonna cheer for Bey to be successful and if he isn't I'll kill him.

[Jack's sore libido]

I think, unfortunately, there are quite a few of us that actually expect the guy to bust because so many of our other first rounders have. I know it's a shitty way to look at things but our franchise hasn't really given us a whole lot of positives lately.

Well then it sounds like we shouldn't be happy unless we trade out of the first round entirely, then out of the second round, then out of the third round, and wind up with 32 7th-round picks.

[Madturk]

Ty Jackson, Larry English, and really Moreno, were all reaches. But all were needs/system fits. But they really did'nt receive the flak we did. Mitchell was the big reach, he had better pan out.
Even if Chi-town was taking him at 49, similar guys like Chip Vaughn, were available in round 4. We could have easily stood pat and took E. Brown, or even Brace. But if Mitchell pans out, we'll be fine.


I'm not sure I would say Knowshon was a big reach. Going to hate playing him twice a year. Jackson and English were definite reaches.

[Jack's sore libido]

I'm not sure I would say Knowshon was a big reach. Going to hate playing him twice a year. Jackson and English were definite reaches.

2 months ago, Moreno would not have been a reach.

After an awful 40, though, he was projected to go late in the first round.

Still, no one is bashing the Broncos for it. Nor should they. If that's the best guy on their board, they should take him. He reminds me of Clinton Portis, actually.

[CrossBones]

2 months ago, Moreno would not have been a reach.

After an awful 40, though, he was projected to go late in the first round.

Still, no one is bashing the Broncos for it. Nor should they. If that's the best guy on their board, they should take him. He reminds me of Clinton Portis, actually.And speaking of the Broncos...

Seattle gets their #1 pick next year which should be a high number one. Seattle put themselves into a very good situation should Hasselback go tits up. They can use Denver's choice and their own next year a get a QB if that is what needs to be done. Seattle thinks they can win now and they did good. Fuckers. Denver got worked.

[Raidervinny]

Well then it sounds like we shouldn't be happy unless we trade out of the first round entirely, then out of the second round, then out of the third round, and wind up with 32 7th-round picks.

That's overdoing it a bit but rather than trading out and winding up with 7th round picks as you mockingly pointed out we might want to try what SpeedKills has been preaching and trade our picks for proven player.

I dunno bro...i'm still bummed about the last couple of days but I'll get over it. Being a Raider fan means your nothing if not resiliant right?

Thanks for the debates Jack...good stuff.

[Jack's sore libido]

That's overdoing it a bit but rather than trading out and winding up with 7th round picks as you mockingly pointed out we might want to try what SpeedKills has been preaching and trade our picks for proven player.

Like, say, DeAngelo Hall? Or Randy Moss?

[Raidervinny]

Like, say, DeAngelo Hall? Or Randy Moss?


Funny how both guys are thriving since the departed from our team. I would make the trade for Moss again in a heartbeat.

As fans we have to look at our own organization and ask ourselves why players like Moss and Hall, talented players that were successful prior to their arrival, stunk up the joint while they were here but yet thrived again once they moved on? Was the atmosphere in Oakland that toxic? I kind of think it was. I do however thing it's improved under Cable. I would love to see what Moss could do on this team now.

[Raidervinny]

Vinny, you act as if it is your money.

As Jack and others have pointed out there is no way of knowing if Bey would have been there 10 picks later. It's only conjecture based on the "experts" like Kiper...holy crap...Mel Fucking Kiper? Fuck him. Does he own a football team?

Al Davis runs his football team differently than the reat of the sheep in the NFL. Is it right? I dunno. I wouldn't do it that way but I don't own a pro football team either. That puts me in the same boat with Mel Kiper and the other 100 million football fans who regurgitate what they hear over and over on ESPN and Fox Sports.

As Jack points out, if Bey busts out he'd bust out at 17 just as easily as 7. Doesn't matter. In the end if the Raiders felt that strongly that Bey was the guy for this team then they have no business gambling. If it doesn't matter (like in NE) if the guy is there at 17 or not then it's a different story. And again we have no idea if anybody was willing to trade up. I doubt it.

This is another one of those circular arguments. I didn't like the pick but it's not my money. I'm gonna cheer for Bey to be successful and if he isn't I'll kill him.

It's an investment. Losing less money in a bad investment hurts a little less than losing more money in a bad investment.

LOL...love the last quote...you summed it up perfectly!

Later Bones!

[Limee]

Was the atmosphere in Oakland that toxic? I kind of think it was.

It certainly wasn't an environment conducive to winning, but the draft picks were walking into that same environment.

[Raidervinny]

It certainly wasn't an environment conducive to winning, but the draft picks were walking into that same environment.

Good point. Some of those draft picks (like Walter and Teyo Johnson) sulked and and some (like Asomougha, Morrison and Howard) perservered and became very good players. I guess it comes down to mental toughness and heart. I'll give this to Cable...that was definitely the theme of this years draft.

[DonkeyKilla]

Ooooh, now I get it.

When you say Fart Smell, you are actually referring to Raider legend and Hall of Famer, Art Shell.

Wow, that's pretty clever...

2006 really really sucked. But i take your point to heart, Art did a lot of great things for our team and shouldn't be referred to that way. :o

[Armyr8rfan]

I'm not sure I would say Knowshon was a big reach. Going to hate playing him twice a year. Jackson and English were definite reaches.
I agree 100 %, I think all four will be good. Just pointing out the bias. Sporting News had Ty Jackson as a 3RD rounder. Most draft "experts had Moreno behind Wells. I think all four picks made sense.

[Madturk]

And, say what you want but Jaworski studies this shit and knows what he's talking about. Now it's up to Bey and the Big Dummy. ;)

Agreed, although annoying to listen to, I enjoy his preview and breakdowns of the MNF games. He knows his X's and O's. Fuck Nell Carter and Trent Dildo.

[Raider Bill]

fuck it, it's not my money.. if the guy can play I could give a frog's fat ass where we selected him