It’s a safety issue [Archive]

DarkDays

03-28-2009, 09:18 AM

IT’S A SAFETY ISSUE

By Paul Wexler
RaiderBeat.com Staff Writer

It’s not a secret that the Raiders are thin at the safety position. Hiram Eugene and Tyvon Branch are the projected starters as of now, with Michael Huff and Darrick Brown the primary backups.
The Raiders haven’t had an impact player at safety since Pro Football Hall of Famer Rod Woodson retired after the 2003 season. There isn’t any promise of that changing this season, unless the inexperienced Eugene and/or Branch develop faster than expected.
The Raiders cut starting strong safety Gibril Wilson in February after only one season. He arrived as one of the crown jewels of Oakland’s free-agent crop last season and departed as someone who made a lot of tackles but didn’t fit in coach Tom Cable’s plans.
It’s apparent what Cable thinks of Huff. He benched Huff one game after he replaced Lane Kiffin and handed the job to Eugene.
At a bare minimum, the Raiders need more depth at safety. Free agency still remains a viable option.
Former Dallas Cowboys strong safety Roy Williams has yet to land a job since he was released. He is solid in run support and a big hitter, though he struggles in pass coverage.
Beyond Williams there aren’t many frontline safeties available. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the Raiders rely upon the NFL Draft in late April as a means of finding another safety.
ESPN’s Mel Kiper Jr, said in a national conference call Wednesday that this year’s draft class is loaded with safeties who project into the second and third round. Here is a look at some of the top safeties available:

Louis Delmas FS, Western Michigan
He is considered the top prospect. Delmas could go as high as late in the first round, but he also might last until the Raiders pick early in second round.
Delmas lacks great speed, but he plays fast. It’s a concern of some that he played against inferior competition in college. However, he fared well at the Senior Bowl in Mobile in January.
Delmas is considered a playmaker who has a tendency to be around the ball, and he has the production to show for it. He also has reliable hands and impressive concentration. He tends to hold on to balls that he gets his hands on.
Reportedly he scored a 12 on the Wonderlic test at the NFL Scouting Combine in February, which is a concern for some teams, according to Sports Illustrated’s Paul Zimmerman. The average score for safeties currently in the NFL is 19.

Darcel McBath FS, Texas Tech
He is regarded as the best athlete among the safety prospects. McBath has the kind of elite speed the Raiders love.
He practiced day in and day out against the Red Raiders high-powered offense, so he is adept at reading the quarterback and reacting quickly. He also doesn’t get sucked into play-action or pump fakes too ofte n.
He isn’t as dominant against the run as he should be. He also is too aggressive for his own good at times and misses too many tackles.
His combination of elite speed and great coverage skills make him an intriguing prospect for the Raiders.

Patrick Chung SS, Oregon
Chung plays best up close, when facing the quarterback. He is a textbook tackler who rarely allows the receiver to cross the middle without getting hit hard.
He is one of the best open-field tacklers among this year’s prospects. Chung lacks the size and ball-hawking skills. That likely will prevent him from being an early-round selection, but he should be gone by the end of the third round.
Chung is a versatile athlete who also has played cornerback and as a kick returner. He has the potential to make a roster as a backup and contribute on special teams while he adjusts to the NFL for a year or two.

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fade2black24

03-28-2009, 09:29 AM

Darcel McBath might be worth a look but I'd much rather have Vaughn than McBath.

For some reason I'm not much into the Raiderbeat guys as of late. They are giving half ass articles and not doing enough of their hw imo.

Jack's sore libido

03-28-2009, 11:20 AM

Raider Jason

03-28-2009, 11:40 AM

What about trying Routt at free safety.

He blitzes well and is plenty physical. And fast.

If the Raiders go with Asomugha-Johnson-Miller as their top 3 corners, that could free up room for Routt to move.

Or if they were to draft an Alphonso Smith or Sean Smith in the second round ...

Miller could not cut it as a #3 CB. I personlly feel that Roy Williams would be a nice fit. For one, he is solid vs the run. With our man to man style of defense, we could get away with using a guy like Williams back threre to support, and shore up the run defense. Two, you would have to think that he would love to play close to home. As a local product, Williams could finish his career at home in front of family and friends. Three, nobody has signed him as of yet, and I would think that he could get signed at a very decent price.

Jack's sore libido

03-28-2009, 11:56 AM

I don't want Roy Williams to be anything but a linebacker and special teamer.

We already have Roy Williams. His name is Jon Alston.

DonkeyKilla

03-28-2009, 12:05 PM

i don't disagree that we have safety issues but i'd like to see us address the DL and WR positions first, then worry about Safety.

Langlier

03-28-2009, 02:42 PM

my opinion on these raiderbeat guys - they've got a similar source to me but their articles are... crap.

RaiderRobert

03-28-2009, 03:54 PM

I don't want Roy Williams to be anything but a linebacker and special teamer.

We already have Roy Williams. His name is Jon Alston.

I couldn't have said it any better...

Sabers

03-28-2009, 04:04 PM

What about trying Routt at free safety.

He blitzes well and is plenty physical. And fast.

If the Raiders go with Asomugha-Johnson-Miller as their top 3 corners, that could free up room for Routt to move.

Or if they were to draft an Alphonso Smith or Sean Smith in the second round ...

Justin Miller is terrific as a kick returner, but he sucks as a corner. Besides, I believe this is Stanford Routt's contract year, so I'd expect a lot more out of him as a corner this year. I'd rather bring in a pure safety, either a free agent veteran or a rookie, than be messing with Routt's head this season with a position change.

G.
'09 for COOP and CANE

Sleet

03-28-2009, 07:38 PM

Miller had a good day against Tampa Bay, barring one play in Cover 2 (or at least Miller played like he was in Cover 2), and the safety didn't have his back. I bet Miller's better in man coverage than you give him credit for, but I have not watched game tape on in.

Raider Jason

03-29-2009, 12:14 AM

I don't want Roy Williams to be anything but a linebacker and special teamer.

We already have Roy Williams. His name is Jon Alston.

Since when did Williams start playing LB? Give me a break. The last time I checked, he was a Pro Bowl Safety. Great against the run, terrible vs the pass. With our mam to man, he could be a very nice pick up!

Jack's sore libido

03-29-2009, 01:56 AM

He was a Pro Bowl safety on NAME and popularity.

Sleet

03-29-2009, 05:48 AM

At this point in their careers (sm, fast OLB v. big, slow SS), I wouldn't be surprised if Alston's not only better in coverage, but also better against the run.

Madturk

03-29-2009, 08:47 AM

I honestly thought we had this problem resolved with the addition of Gibril Wilson last season.

RaiderRobert

03-29-2009, 12:06 PM

The last time I checked, he was a Pro Bowl Safety. Great against the run, terrible vs the pass. With our mam to man, he could be a very nice pick up!

Um, the last time I checked, Roy was a last minute addition to the Pro Bowl BECAUSE Sean Taylor died. Google Roy Williams and you get this...

According to Football Outsiders writer Bill Barnwell: "There’s not a more laughable 'reputation' pick for the Pro Bowl than Williams, whose utter inability to cover anything was the problem the Cowboys defense had to hide all season. The Cowboys’ weakness in pass defense was their number 28 ranking against tight ends, a direct reflection of Williams, who was often isolated against those tight ends with much flailing ensuing. At this point, Williams is not only not a Pro Bowler, he’s a net negative to the Cowboys defense."

Other than that addition due to death, his last Pro Bowl was 4 years ago.

Now, when you say he is "terrible vs the pass" and then immediately say "with our man to man, he could be a very nice pick up" that is the dumbest thing I have seen in a while. Maybe you meant to say "horrible" but had a brain fart and said "very nice" instead?

NIPS

03-29-2009, 12:12 PM

Bring back the ........

http://www.thatsgoodknowledge.com/view/4.jpg

By the way, whos the dipshit in marketing that decided to "sell out the store" with this fuckin McFarland eh?

RaiderNorth

03-29-2009, 02:38 PM

My thinking is the Raiders take McBath in the third orVaughn in the fourth.

Raider Jason

03-29-2009, 03:00 PM

Um, the last time I checked, Roy was a last minute addition to the Pro Bowl BECAUSE Sean Taylor died. Google Roy Williams and you get this...

According to Football Outsiders writer Bill Barnwell: "There’s not a more laughable 'reputation' pick for the Pro Bowl than Williams, whose utter inability to cover anything was the problem the Cowboys defense had to hide all season. The Cowboys’ weakness in pass defense was their number 28 ranking against tight ends, a direct reflection of Williams, who was often isolated against those tight ends with much flailing ensuing. At this point, Williams is not only not a Pro Bowler, he’s a net negative to the Cowboys defense."

Other than that addition due to death, his last Pro Bowl was 4 years ago.

Now, when you say he is "terrible vs the pass" and then immediately say "with our man to man, he could be a very nice pick up" that is the dumbest thing I have seen in a while. Maybe you meant to say "horrible" but had a brain fart and said "very nice" instead?

Wow, unbeleivable! When I guy makes it to the pro bowl (no matter what the circumstances are) he is considered one of the best at his position.

Also, I guess I have to break it down so that you understand my point. I will not go into too much detail, as I would probably be wasting my time, but here it is RR. We play man to man, and that means that our Corners on locked up on WR's. When a team utilizes the TE, we bring up our safety to play him. We can utilize a guy like Williams on running downs, on short yardage downs if you will, etc. He has always good vs the run.

Sleet

03-29-2009, 05:23 PM

If the SS can't cover a TE man-to-man, he's no good to us. It is likely why Al, Cable and Marshall didn't care about losing Wilson, he couldn't cover. It is likely why Huff is moving back to SS, b/c he can cover TEs man-to-man. He just couldn't play center field very well. It is likely why Williams hasn't visited the Raiders. The other reason is that the Raiders are going young.

007

03-29-2009, 06:00 PM

Plenty of unworthy guys have made a Pro Bowl.

Look at Jason fuckin' Peters and Alan Faneca last year...

Peters led the league with 14.5 sacks given up. Even in Sims worst year, he never gave up that many. Clady and David Stewart were much better all around.

Faneca I believe gave up 7 sacks and wasnt as dominant in the run game as Gallery, but the big name guys always get the spot.

RaiderRobert

03-29-2009, 06:38 PM

Wow, unbeleivable! When I guy makes it to the pro bowl (no matter what the circumstances are) he is considered one of the best at his position.

Also, I guess I have to break it down so that you understand my point. I will not go into too much detail, as I would probably be wasting my time, but here it is RR. We play man to man, and that means that our Corners on locked up on WR's. When a team utilizes the TE, we bring up our safety to play him. We can utilize a guy like Williams on running downs, on short yardage downs if you will, etc. He has always good vs the run.

Sorry to bust your bubble bub, but ProBowl election is not a contest won by who is the BEST at a position, it is who is the MOST POPULAR (number of votes) at a position. There is no room or rather no reason to dispute this. This is a FACT.

Sorry to waste your time, but your logic is flawed. Williams is just fine against the run, agreed. And he is atrocious against the pass, agreed. Here is the problem. Do you think if Williams is in, people run against him? No, they pass against him, for TD's. So you pass on Williams until he goes out, then you run on him. He is a liability on the field. Has been for years. We play man to man, as you said, but he CAN NOT PLAY man to man. Understand? You say put him in on running downs like it is a certainty that teams run on 1st down EVERY TIME. Or in short yardage. why would teams run against us in those situations? Just isolate Gates or Gonzo on Williams and toss the easy TD.

If you cannot play pass defense, you cannot be our SS, no need to apply. Even if he is a joke of a ProBowler...

Hillbilly

03-29-2009, 07:17 PM

This isn't a serious sugestion so don't run me through the ringer too hard. If the Raiders picked up Roy Williams they would be better off using him as a linebacker and playing Thomas Howard at strong safety.

NIPS

03-29-2009, 08:25 PM

007

03-29-2009, 10:14 PM

Howard is a LB, plain and simple.

Sure he went to college and started as a safety 6 years ago, but lets be realistic...Not a lot of 245lb SS's running around in coverage.

If we brought Roy Williams in it would be the same as bringing in Donovan Darius, a veteran who brings competition and a shot at making the roster.

RaiderRobert

03-29-2009, 10:52 PM

Madturk

03-30-2009, 07:00 AM

A guy that couldn't even make it out of training camp?

wyoraiders

03-30-2009, 08:36 AM

Thomas Howard to SS is ridiculous...then we would be worse off at 2 positions.

Rupert

03-30-2009, 08:56 AM

Alston to safety would make more sense, but I'd rather get a safety in the draft.

Raider Bill

03-30-2009, 09:54 AM

David Brutton is a guy who should be there in the 4th that can play IMO.

Raider Jason

03-30-2009, 10:37 AM

I hope I don't hear any of you guys complaining that the Raiders did not get anyone into the Pro Bowl this next season. From what I gather, a lot of you guys think its a joke.

RaiderRobert

03-30-2009, 10:47 AM

I hope I don't hear any of you guys complaining that the Raiders did not get anyone into the Pro Bowl this next season. From what I gather, a lot of you guys think its a joke.

Until the day comes when NFL PLAYERS, and NFL COACHES, and ACCREDITED SPORTS JOURNALISTS are the only people responsible for voting in players to the Pro Bowl, it will continue to be what it is, a beauty pageant. It is no wonder that there are so many empty seats at the game, and that it is a money losing event because nobody even watches it anymore. It is and will continue to be a joke until they change it...

Did you know that some teams and organizations (and AGENTS) actually create and fund marketing programs to get non-football fans and uninterested people to vote for their guy? The Pro Bowl is a joke.

And I for one will never complain about it...

Raider Jason

03-30-2009, 10:51 AM

Until the day comes when NFL PLAYERS, and NFL COACHES, and ACCREDITED SPORTS JOURNALISTS are the only people responsible for voting in players to the Pro Bowl, it will continue to be what it is, a beauty pageant. It is no wonder that there are so many empty seats at the game, and that it is a money losing event because nobody even watches it anymore. It is and will continue to be a joke until they change it...

Did you know that some teams and organizations (and AGENTS) actually create and fund marketing programs to get non-football fans and uninterested people to vote for their guy? The Pro Bowl is a joke.

And I for one will never complain about it...

Many accopmlished players who have unbeleivable seasons play in this game. Although I don't care to watch it, If I were a player who made the team, I would be honored!

Unlike you, I reserve the right to bitch about a deserved player who did not get in!

RaiderRobert

03-30-2009, 11:19 AM

Many accopmlished players who have unbeleivable seasons play in this game. Although I don't care to watch it, If I were a player who made the team, I would be honored!

Unlike you, I reserve the right to bitch about a deserved player who did not get in!

I agree with you, that IN THE PAST, the players who played in the ProBowl were generally the best players that year. But the system has become abused, perverted, and broken.

Let me give you just 1 example. Let's look at Troy Polamalu. In 2007 he missed 5 games due to injury. Worst season of his career. 58 tackles, no sacks, no interceptions. By many accounts a horrible season. Compare him to 3 others. For example, same season Ronald Bartell had 67 tackles 1 sack and 2 interceptions. The STATS say he was a better player that season. How about Atari Bigby that season? 86 tackles no sacks but 5 int's. Why wasn't he selected instead of Troy? And here is the one you want to see. Michael Huff, had his by far best season of his career so far. 85 tackles, 1 sack, and 1 interception. Much better player that year, was he voted to the Pro Bowl? Fuck no, but Troy was, even though he had his worst season ever, missed a bunch of it, and was NOT deserving of it. He averaged 3.4 tackles per game compared to Huff's 5.3 tackles per game not to mention a sack AND int. But he was the POPULAR vote...

Rupert

03-30-2009, 11:32 AM

I agree with you, that IN THE PAST, the players who played in the ProBowl were generally the best players that year. But the system has become abused, perverted, and broken.

Let me give you just 1 example. Let's look at Troy Polamalu. In 2007 he missed 5 games due to injury. Worst season of his career. 58 tackles, no sacks, no interceptions. By many accounts a horrible season. Compare him to 3 others. For example, same season Ronald Bartell had 67 tackles 1 sack and 2 interceptions. The STATS say he was a better player that season. How about Atari Bigby that season? 86 tackles no sacks but 5 int's. Why wasn't he selected instead of Troy? And here is the one you want to see. Michael Huff, had his by far best season of his career so far. 85 tackles, 1 sack, and 1 interception. Much better player that year, was he voted to the Pro Bowl? Fuck no, but Troy was, even though he had his worst season ever, missed a bunch of it, and was NOT deserving of it. He averaged 3.4 tackles per game compared to Huff's 5.3 tackles per game not to mention a sack AND int. But he was the POPULAR vote...
Motion carried. The Pro Bowl is a joke as it is currently constituted.

It's also wonderful that it's in Hawaii, but not exactly a road trip and tailgate kinda experience is it?

Raider Jason

03-30-2009, 11:53 AM

I agree with you, that IN THE PAST, the players who played in the ProBowl were generally the best players that year. But the system has become abused, perverted, and broken.

Let me give you just 1 example. Let's look at Troy Polamalu. In 2007 he missed 5 games due to injury. Worst season of his career. 58 tackles, no sacks, no interceptions. By many accounts a horrible season. Compare him to 3 others. For example, same season Ronald Bartell had 67 tackles 1 sack and 2 interceptions. The STATS say he was a better player that season. How about Atari Bigby that season? 86 tackles no sacks but 5 int's. Why wasn't he selected instead of Troy? And here is the one you want to see. Michael Huff, had his by far best season of his career so far. 85 tackles, 1 sack, and 1 interception. Much better player that year, was he voted to the Pro Bowl? Fuck no, but Troy was, even though he had his worst season ever, missed a bunch of it, and was NOT deserving of it. He averaged 3.4 tackles per game compared to Huff's 5.3 tackles per game not to mention a sack AND int. But he was the POPULAR vote...

RR, I totally get your point man, I am trying to tell you however that the majority of the guys playing in that game are legit pro bowlers! Sometimes a guy slips in because there is nobody at the position who has ELITE Stats.

Sleet

03-30-2009, 11:58 AM

Too many veteran Pro Bowlers get grandfathered in. Once you make it at a position, you're like the Champ. Unless knocked out, you win by decision.

RaiderRobert

03-30-2009, 12:42 PM

Motion carried. The Pro Bowl is a joke as it is currently constituted.

It's also wonderful that it's in Hawaii, but not exactly a road trip and tailgate kinda experience is it?

The next 2 years, it will be played in Miami instead, AND it is played the weekend BETWEEN the Conference Championships and the SuperBowl. How lame is that? That is how bad it has become, they have to put it in a down weekend BEFORE the SuperBowl. Personally I think this is the dumbest thing I have ever heard...

Jack's sore libido

03-30-2009, 01:14 PM

RR, I totally get your point man, I am trying to tell you however that the majority of the guys playing in that game are legit pro bowlers! Sometimes a guy slips in because there is nobody at the position who has ELITE Stats.

That may very well be true.

However, Roy Williams was not in that majority. Roy Williams has sucked for several years now.

BigTron

03-30-2009, 01:23 PM

That may very well be true.

However, Roy Williams was not in that majority. Roy Williams has sucked for several years now.

I agree. How long til we sign him :pound:

RaiderRobert

03-30-2009, 02:05 PM

I agree. How long til we sign him :pound:

If he is still available in July we will sign him and bring him to camp...