Nah

[CrossBones]

Matt Millen to Oakland (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/09/27/could-millen-land-in-oakland/)? Hahaha.

[Limee]

No, No, thrice no.

[hawaiianboy]

His draft history stinks... but the one upside is it would give us a much needed buffer between the head coach and Al...

[Byron2112]

You know what? I like Kiffin, and if Millen can come in, and just be a congenial guy between Al and him, and tell the players about past glory and stuff, I don't care if comes here and pins on a GM tag.

We all know who the real GM is anyway. I don't think there's much danger from Millen on that front, so if it helps keep Kiffin and keeps Jamarc's world consistent I'm good with it.

[RHC]

You know what? I like Kiffin, Why? Just fucking tell me why?

[Byron2112]

Because he's had such an awsome support system here, and he took over an absolute Ferrari. :rolleyes:

WTF man? The guy's 32 years old, this is his first headcoaching gig. He's not perfect, but he's not getting much help either.

I'm glad he's willing to coach here and has the players playing hard even with this circus Al's created for him... you better think about that because there aren't any swell choices waiting in line to come get the Al Davis treatment.

Lane can motivate these guys, and I want Russell to have some stability. He's not getting much to work with on offense so I dunno what exactly you expect?... like any of the know-it-alls here wouldn't fold after one afternoon of the shit storm Davis has piled on this guy.

Get a clue dude.

[007]

We've had the lead in 10 of our lsat 16 games going into the 4th quarter...And lost them all.

I just heard that, and I puked a little in my mouth.

Oh. And I like Kiffin too.

[s.dot88]

last time i checked, we've lost more games due to execution than coaching

way more

so fire the guy who brings in these fuckheaded players that drop passes and miss tackles, not the guy that that is calling the shots and gives us a lead with 10 minutes to play

Kiffin's not prefect, and he does do some dumb shit, but if Al fires him it'll only set this franchise bac another 2 or 3 years and the way it looks now, we are around the corner from being really good

[Raidermania12]

Oh. And I like Kiffin too.

Me Three (I must to agree with 007).

Its not like coaches worth a damn will be screaming for a shot to take his place.

Al prove you want to win and take care of these loose personnel ends.

[Jack's sore libido]

Count me among those who like Kiffin.

The wins aren't coming, but you can't possibly say the Raiders haven't been competitive with him.

At least I don't want to walk away from the TV at halftime when he's coach.

[NIPS]

Kiffin goes limp dick in the 4th like a bad porn actor

Heres the bottom line

In just the last 2 games the Raiders offense were at the opponents:

1 yard line
5 yard line
11 yard line
14 yards line
17 yard line
19 yard line

6 times we were in the redzone and settled for a FG

Resulting in 18 points as opposed to 42 points

Other than Higgins long TD last week... We haven't done dick in the 4th qtr on offense

Was there a vote in the meeting room to stop scoring in the 4th that I missed out on or something?

I mean WTF already?

This is Kiffins responsibility... He alone needs to be held accountable

And someone with an apple sack needs to ask him at the press today

"Hey Lane, Why cant you get this team to score in the redzone?"

"Coach Kiffin, this team dries up in the 4th, they simply cant score in the 4th qtr, what have you done to fuck this up?"

[RHC]

The only time we played woorth a shit in the 4th was against DEN when Kiffin opened it up because we were already doomed.

Russell was nails.

Too little too late.

[jatfly]

Kiffin goes limp dick in the 4th like a bad porn actor

Heres the bottom line

In just the last 2 games the Raiders offense were at the opponents:

1 yard line
5 yard line
11 yard line
14 yards line
17 yard line
19 yard line

6 times we were in the redzone and settled for a FG

Resulting in 18 points as opposed to 42 points

Other than Higgins long TD last week... We haven't done dick in the 4th qtr on offense

Was there a vote in the meeting room to stop scoring in the 4th that I missed out on or something?

I mean WTF already?

This is Kiffins responsibility... He alone needs to be held accountable

And someone with an apple sack needs to ask him at the press today

"Hey Lane, Why cant you get this team to score in the redzone?"

"Coach Kiffin, this team dries up in the 4th, they simply cant score in the 4th qtr, what have you done to fuck this up?"


THE GLARING PROBLEM WITH YOUR COMPLAINT ABOUT KIFFIN is...

We have allowed 42 points in the past two fourth quarters.
Sometimes the Offense doesn't have to score in the forth to win, how about a Defense that can stop someone when it matters.......

Look the Offense isn't gonna be better no matter who the friggin coach is.....THE line is beat up and not very good, we have a basically a Rookie QB and RB's and WR can't catch a cold.
BUT THIS D CAN PLAY LIKE A TOP TEN D we have seen it.....
JUST NOT IN THE 4th.

[RHC]

Because he's had such an awsome support system here, and he took over an absolute Ferrari. :rolleyes:
Go look at what other new coaches have done with shitty teams. VERY rarely does a new coach take over a ferrari.

WTF man? The guy's 32 years old, this is his first headcoaching gig. He's not perfect, but he's not getting much help either.
Wow, the excuses really pile up around here. If he's so damn green, he should go be an assistant somewhere til he's ready.

I'm glad he's willing to coach here and has the players playing hard even with this circus Al's created for him... you better think about that because there aren't any swell choices waiting in line to come get the Al Davis treatment.
I think about everything. Who has the players playing hard? You sure it's Kiffin? I see a hell of a lot more energy and balls on the defensive side of the ball. We would lose absolutely nothing by firing Kiffin right now. Nothing to lose, everything to gain.

Difference between you and me: You want to throw Al into everything and I look at what I see on the field.

Lane can motivate these guys, and I want Russell to have some stability.
You want continuity? Well, we've got continuous losing. Congrats,

He's not getting much to work with on offense so I dunno what exactly you expect?... like any of the know-it-alls here wouldn't fold after one afternoon of the shit storm Davis has piled on this guy.
I think we lost the DEN game because Al can't cover WRs. We lost to BUF because Al can't get a first down. And we ate shit against SD because Al can't block.

That about covers it.
Get a clue dude. OK, let me see if I can fall into line with you here.

Al blah blah blah... Blah Al blah... Old man blah blah... Die Al blah blah blah... Kiff's a god blah... Nobody can win here blah blah. Al Davis is a blah blah.. Passed him blah blah by blah... Kiffin blah the victim blah blah blah... Al blah Davis blah... Kiffin blah blah no chance blah blah... No control blah...

Take a break dude.

[RHC]

THE GLARING PROBLEM WITH YOUR COMPLAINT ABOUT KIFFIN is...

We have allowed 42 points in the past two fourth quarters.That's not a glaring problem with anything.

How many points have we scored in the 4th qtr in those 2 games?

How many 3rd downs have we converted in those 2 games? I'll TELL YOU HOW MANY. FIVE.

5 third down conversions in 2 games.

Out of 27 opportunities. 5 of 27 dude!!

That's all about play calling. And you will not win like that.

[Stanny]

THE GLARING PROBLEM WITH YOUR COMPLAINT ABOUT KIFFIN is...

We have allowed 42 points in the past two fourth quarters.
Sometimes the Offense doesn't have to score in the forth to win, how about a Defense that can stop someone when it matters.......

Look the Offense isn't gonna be better no matter who the friggin coach is.....THE line is beat up and not very good, we have a basically a Rookie QB and RB's and WR can't catch a cold.
BUT THIS D CAN PLAY LIKE A TOP TEN D we have seen it.....
JUST NOT IN THE 4th.



Ding Ding Ding Ding...we have a winna! NO DEPTH, shit players or Rookies all over the place at the skilled spots. I haven't seen this team play this hard for a coach in quite a while. Game management skills he needs to work on, but he's in year two...I like what he's put together, it's a damn shame Al isn't giving him his crack to turn it around.

[Rupert]

Ding Ding Ding Ding...we have a winna! NO DEPTH, shit players or Rookies all over the place at the skilled spots. I haven't seen this team play this hard for a coach in quite a while. Game management skills he needs to work on, but he's in year two...I like what he's put together, it's a damn shame Al isn't giving him his crack to turn it around.

Now hold ON!

How the HELL can you "manage" a game with that type of roster?

Think about it a little. It's like saying he should have danced better even though he was hog-tied.

[Jack's sore libido]

The same way he managed it the first three quarters?

Look, I'm a Kiffin supporter, but he has failed the team every bit as much -- if not more -- than the defense has, in the fourth quarters.

[Rupert]

The same way he managed it the first three quarters?

Look, I'm a Kiffin supporter, but he has failed the team every bit as much -- if not more -- than the defense has, in the fourth quarters.

Are you suggesting he managed it differently?

[007]

He didnt give up 25 points in 15 minutes.

I fail to realize how yesterdays loss falls anywhere but SQUARELY on Rob Ryan's lap.

25 fucking points?

Gimme a break. Our defense folded up shop when we needed it the most.

[Jack's sore libido]

Yes, I am.

I haven't exactly analyzed the play-by-play, but it sure seems like he has gotten too conservative in the late portions of the game.

[Jack's sore libido]

He didnt give up 25 points in 15 minutes.

I fail to realize how yesterdays loss falls anywhere but SQUARELY on Rob Ryan's lap.

25 fucking points?

Gimme a break. Our defense folded up shop when we needed it the most.

In fairness, it's really 18 points we're talking about. That last TD was meaningless. The game was over with a few kneel-downs. If anything, LT scoring that TD actually gave the Raiders a wing and a prayer, since they got the ball back. They *could* have *conceivably* had a big KR, kicked a quick FG, then onside kicked to give themselves a chance at a tying TD. Does it matter, other than to gamblers, that they lost 28-18 instead of 21-18? (and I might add that the Raiders did have the ball near midfield, down 21-18, and failed to at least tie the game -- that can in NO WAY be attributed to the defense).

That said ... the 18 points was disappointing, sure. But how can you blame the defense ENTIRELY for that 18 points when one score was set up by a fumble at the Raiders' 13-yard line and another was set up by a 67-yard kick return?

Seems to me the Chargers had ONE real drive against this defense. Is the defense not entitled to give up ONE real drive a game?

[CrossBones]

I agree with both of you.

On the one hand the defense played pretty damn well for most of the game -- last week's debacle IMO was on Ryan. Yesterday it was different.

But 007's point sticks in my craw. Our defense never makes a big play or forces a 3 and out when the game is on the line. That is a problem. Blame whoever you want .... but that is why we're losing these leads in the fourth quarter and losing the games.

[Rupert]

Talent-wise the team falls short.

I think both Kiffin and Ryan are trying to make the most of it.

I also think they're both more upset than we are and trying to think up different ways to prevent it in the future.

Beyond that, I see that the effort is there from the players and coaching.

After that it's about turning it into wins.

You saw San Diego and Buffalo WILL themselves to victory. These Raiders don't know how to do that yet. And even if the coaches sent in the perfect play, it would end up fucked.

You say Kiffin isn't game planning properly in the 4th. I could agree for the Buffalo game, even though I understood the strategy play for play. But don't tell me he sat on his hands against San Diego. He tried to make things happen and the results were the same. To me that points to the talent.

The same could be said for Ryan. Why did LT get that TD, the defense was too aggressive. But they didn't try to sit on the lead like they did against Buffalo.

These guys are trying and we are improving.

That's how it looks to me.

[JohnQ]

It's frustrating.I mean that D was on fire.When they caused Phillip to drop the ball and we
laid that safety on them.It was on.The place was screaming.And the D continued to bring it.

( Seems like I said that last week).

But for exactly half of the 3rd qtr San Diego had the ball ( and scored).So that set the tempo
for the 2nd half.And puts the D on their heels.

Not sure whose "fault" that is but it's seems to be part of the problem

[s.dot88]

6 times we were in the redzone and settled for a FG

Resulting in 18 points as opposed to 42 points



i can pick out 4 or 5 should/would/could-be TDs that were totally on the players, not the coaches

just from last game, Jamarcus trying to wiggle out of Newmans way instead of bowling him over cost us 7

Miller slipping when he was wide open, and JR throws a perfect ball - cost us 7

im not saying the playcalling has been perfect, but fuck, thats just poor execution and rookie mistakes more than anything

the red zone performance is not the coaching staffs fault

the poor playcalling in the early 4th quarter where we run the ball right into brick walls is frustrating, but the reality is that we need better players if we want to win more games. we're slowly getting better, but we still need 2 OTs, 3 WRs, a veteran QB who has actually done something, a DT, 2 DEs, and a sambacker

[NIPS]

the red zone performance is not the coaching staffs fault




The fuck it aint

When you have a talent like Mcfadden running up the gut instead of getting him open in the flats to make plays is idiotic

Fuck, even my 16 month old son can see that there has been very little practice on offense in the redzone

I truely believe they dont have a redzone playbook...

They use the same play calling in the redzone as they do on their own forty

It's fuckin disguisting

[Stanny]

Are you suggesting he managed it differently?


What I am saying going into the 4th quarter he (Kiffin) should be in his QB's earpiece " JaMarcus, do not hike the ball until the play clock is down to about 1-3 seconds." Anyone notice in both games friggen Russell is taking snap with 10-12 seconds left on the clock?

Shit like that matters when trying to hold a lead going into the 4th, sitting on a lead with an offense not moving the ball too well and leaving time on the clock for the opponent with our lack of depth on D has killed us.

In the Buffallo game, two direct run plays off the right guard to get no gain then throw on 3rd and 10 and snapped the ball with 12 seconds on the clock. In those three plays, we left over a half of minute on the clock just on that last drive alone and stopped the clock for the Bills who I believe only had one time out left by throwing in 3rd and long. They could have grinded some serious time off of the clock in both games to help protect the lead, and the failed to do it.

In the Bills game they used the Hog Formation and executed on a few plays yet during the 4th quarter it went away and the same thing in the Bolts game. Another thing we opened with yesterday I liked was the multiple formations with 4 wide and different motions, yet in the 4th it dissapeard.

I am a Kiff supporter but think he needs to get better with managing the game. I thought the game plan he called against SD was a good one and was glad to see him open it up a bit, but again the game clock. He's in year two, with Al in his ear and would assume it his game management would get better if given the chance.

I don't really think Kiffin lost the game for them or Ryan for that matter I think the players and their mental relapse caused them to lose. Michael Bush on 4th and goal we score and it gets called back, settle for three. Too many times in the red zone and failed execution resulted in 3 pts rather than 6.

[Rupert]

What I am saying going into the 4th quarter he (Kiffin) should be in his QB's earpiece " JaMarcus, do not hike the ball until the play clock is down to about 1-3 seconds." Anyone notice in both games friggen Russell is taking snap with 10-12 seconds left on the clock?

Shit like that matters when trying to hold a lead going into the 4th, sitting on a lead with an offense not moving the ball too well and leaving time on the clock for the opponent with our lack of depth on D has killed us.

In the Buffallo game, two direct run plays off the right guard to get no gain then throw on 3rd and 10 and snapped the ball with 12 seconds on the clock. In those three plays, we left over a half of minute on the clock just on that last drive alone and stopped the clock for the Bills who I believe only had one time out left by throwing in 3rd and long. They could have grinded some serious time off of the clock in both games to help protect the lead, and the failed to do it.

In the Bills game they used the Hog Formation and executed on a few plays yet during the 4th quarter it went away and the same thing in the Bolts game. Another thing we opened with yesterday I liked was the multiple formations with 4 wide and different motions, yet in the 4th it dissapeard.

I am a Kiff supporter but think he needs to get better with managing the game. I thought the game plan he called against SD was a good one and was glad to see him open it up a bit, but again the game clock. He's in year two, with Al in his ear and would assume it his game management would get better if given the chance.

I don't really think Kiffin lost the game for them or Ryan for that matter I think the players and their mental relapse caused them to lose. Michael Bush on 4th and goal we score and it gets called back, settle for three. Too many times in the red zone and failed execution resulted in 3 pts rather than 6.

Completely agree Stanny. REP!

However, some of those formations like the Hog are higher risk formations, so I understand, but don't completely agree with eliminating them when we're trying to burn the clock with a lead. Still, keeping the defense honest is an important factor, even if you just plow up the middle for a 1/2 yard.

Same thing on defense, you don't want to be so aggressive that you give up the quick score, but you don't want to be so soft that you give up the score anyway. A 2 - 3 minute drive is nothing with 10 left in the game, especially if you only burn 1 - 2 with your 3 and out.

[Jack's sore libido]

The Raiders seem to be in constant 3rd-and-long situations in the fourth quarter.

Some of it is bound to be poor execution. But not all of it.

[Rupert]

I completely agree. But take a look, we didn't always get there with Student Body Right, Student Body Left. We've mixed it up a bit.

Sometimes you want to use your "money" plays and the defense knows you want to use them too. But if you don't trust the complementary plays, you're essentially fucked when it comes time to call a play.

That's all I'm saying.

[s.dot88]

The fuck it aint

When you have a talent like Mcfadden running up the gut instead of getting him open in the flats to make plays is idiotic

Fuck, even my 16 month old son can see that there has been very little practice on offense in the redzone

I truely believe they dont have a redzone playbook...

They use the same play calling in the redzone as they do on their own forty

It's fuckin disguisting

i remember a certain screen pass to DMc that should have been 6, that ended up being a sack+fumble+turnover on opening night

with this oline and these WRs, not to mention the youth of Russell and DMc, i'd imagine sending in a play inside the redzone is about as scary as riding in the backseat of a blind cab driver

these players havent been executing, and that is the main reason why we arent putting points on the board. dumb mistake after dumb mistake after bad decision.

i get what your saying, play calling hasnt been the best, or even marginally good; but it has been good enough to get more points on the board than we have

[CrossBones]

these players havent been executing, and that is the main reason why we arent putting points on the board. dumb mistake after dumb mistake after bad decision.Ummmm...yeah. REP!

[poptart]

When you have a talent like Mcfadden running up the gut instead of getting him open in the flats to make plays is idiotic

It's not true.

In the ZBS the Raiders use, the 'up the middle' run is just as capable of producing the long run as the 'in the flat' plays.

In the KC game, the first long run he had (50 yds) was right up the gut.
He later took a run for 24 yds on a simple off tackle play.
Nothing fancy at all, but when the blocking is there, a speed guy like McF can flat BUST it long.

I'm not saying that Kiffin hasn't been 'creative' enough with McFadden, because I frankly have been expecting more ... especially with him receiving the ball, but make no mistake, the up the middle runs can produce the big run very easily.