Kiffin vs. Al Part II

[SoCalRaider]

Kiffin meets the Boss
By Tim Kawakami
Mercury News Sports Columnist
http://www.mercurynews.com/sportsheadlines/ci_7908221?nclick_check=1
Article Launched: 01/07/2008 10:24:38 PM PST

Eight days into 2008, Lane Kiffin probably feels like he has aged eight decades since Dec. 31, which is about normal for a Raiders coach.

In the best-case scenario for Kiffin's Raiders coaching career, it looks like he'll enter his second season stuck with a defensive coordinator he tried to fire and a quarterback he never really wanted.

That ought to be tons of fun.

Kiffin is still working for Al Davis, who predictably overruled Kiffin on both counts and probably spent the past few days daring Kiffin to do something about it. (Do you like Hawaii, Lane? There's a job there.)

In the worst-case scenario . . . hey, it's odd: Kiffin's best- and worst-case Raiders scenarios for 2008 are exactly the same.

Kiffin apparently is trapped with Rob Ryan, a talented guy who has his own, non-Lane way of doing things and who, rare among defensive coordinators, has earned Davis' long-term faith.

Kiffin is also stuck with JaMarcus Russell, a supremely talented quarterback who will never run Kiffin's kind of controlled passing game.

Plus, Kiffin can't run to any other NFL job without Davis demanding compensation. Meanwhile, there aren't any more good college jobs to take, unless Kiffin craves Oahu-style loco moco for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

So he's basically trapped. Kiffin probably should've known that a year ago, when 816 better-qualified candidates declined to consider working under Davis. But now Kiffin really knows it.

Maybe Kiffin thought he had earned some political power after reorganizing the locker room and getting the offense back to a middling level. Yes, he did those things. He proved he was better than Norv Turner and Art Shell, and that's why Al is fine with keeping Kiffin around for a while longer.

But Kiffin went 4-12, which is far from the 8-8 rookie record that got Jon Gruden the benefit of Al's doubt.

Though he kept the players' respect, Kiffin has irritated just about everybody else in the building either because he's a naturally brusque operator or because he thinks everybody in there is secretly back-stabbing him, up to and including Mr. D.

Both things are probably true.

So, after getting rebuffed on Ryan, it seems like Kiffin's trying his own spin. It's worth a try. He has ruminated that he might be bolting for unknown parts and - who could imagine it? - NBC's Peter King got that tip in time for Saturday night's broadcast.

Then, shockingly, CBS insider Charlie Casserly said he has heard that Kiffin has only one guaranteed year left on his contract. Subliminal CBS hint: Maybe Davis needs to give Kiffin an extension.

But wait: Davis always signs his coaches to two-year deals and Davis keeps multiple team options, so his coaches are tied to him for longer than he is tied to them.
:rolleyes:

I've been told that Kiffin's deal is no different - he is signed through 2008, then Al has some team options after that. I've heard that there will be zero extension talk or bowing to Kiffin pressure.

Which leads to the current stalemate. Kiffin's a pretty hardheaded guy and obviously took the job ready to butt noggins.

You might figure Davis' safest path is to fire Kiffin and promote either Ryan (unlikely, since Davis likes offensive guys for head coach) or offensive coordinator Greg Knapp to the big job.

But last January Al had to come up with almost several million bucks to get rid of Shell and Tom Walsh after one year, so Al is in no mood to gobble up another $1 million or more.

Of course, Davis never sobs over coaches. He let Gruden go for massive compensation, moved Tom Flores out, let John Madden retire. Coaches come and go, The Al always stays, and he's the one who gathers the talent that he is quite sure should go 13-3 every season - even last season.

This has been brewing for a while, but the flash point is Ryan. Davis isn't going to let Ryan go for nothing. That led to the blistering statement from public relations man Mike Taylor on Friday.

Davis, I'm told, is open to the possibility of letting Ryan go for compensation, but no team is going to give up draft choices or cash for a defensive coordinator. In addition, Davis really likes Ryan, who is probably the best defensive coordinator possible under Al. Ryan can handle Al's meddling, is loved by his players, and is more than capable of running a tough four-man line scheme with man-to-man principles and very little blitzing.

Kiffin wants to change up to a zone-look Cover 2 style? Al doesn't. That's what matters. Still.

Kiffin was the 817th choice last year. He did OK as the Raiders' coach. If he leaves, Al will sigh for a moment, then phone Candidate No. 818 and give it another rip for 2008.

[poptart]

it looks like he'll (Kiffin) enter his second season stuck with a defensive coordinator he tried to fire and a quarterback he never really wanted.

Though he (Kiffin) kept the players' respect, Kiffin has irritated just about everybody else in the building

He (Kiffin) has ruminated that he might be bolting for unknown parts




And yet writer Tim Kawakami offers NO evidence of such things happening.

Classify it under SPECULATION/HANDJOBBERY and move on, nothing to see here.



...... yet?

[vespasian]

Personally I think its just a bunch of know nothing sports writers circle jerking each others material in order to have something to write about now that the season is over with.

[RHC]

Kiffin needs to shut the fuck up and coach the team to win. He's not the GM here. He has been handed a lot of talent, whether it's exactly what he wants or not. Now he needs to put those players in the best possible position to win.

If he doesn't like the way Ryan does things then he needs to tell Ryan how he wants things done.

I would rather have had Brady Quinn too. Didn't happen. Suck it up. Russell can play the game. As the HC you have to know how to set his team up around him. That's your fucking job.

[raider60]

This kind of predictable crap is the worst part of the off season--there are certain flys who will jump all over this steaming pile of shit and blow it completely out of proportion--what the hell does Tim Kawakami know? Nothing but conjecture served as fact--this is the time of year when the only thing I truly believe about the Raiders is when their first round draft pick is announced in April--

[CrossBones]

Tim Kawakam is a hater from waaaay back. And he knows all this first hand? Bullshit. Wild speculation that he's pieced together from King and SoCal. :D

If he doesn't like the way Ryan does things then he needs to tell Ryan how he wants things done.That's the way to do it. Don't tell me Al is forbidding him to get in Ryan's face.

[Freakshow]

I'm not sure why the media is so enamoured with the thought of Al Davis loving Rob Ryan. We haven't had a decent defense since Ryan took over and consistently finish 25th or higher overall. Why would Davis love that? Simply because Ryan plays the rush-4-no blitz-man on man style Al has perferred? He can influence his play calling? The players like him? None of this crap matters if you suck. Al is about winning games, which supersedes anything else.

Al should be the first one to show Ryan the door and embrace what his young, innovative head coach brings to the table. I don't buy into this prevailing interest that Al is meddling with Kiffin's desire to give Ryan the boot. It simply doesn't add up.

[Ghost Poster]

I'll just wait until AL or KIffen say something or make their respective decisions. Fuck all the media reports I'm tired of hearing all of the speculation. I wish I was a fly on the wall at Raiders HQ though. Probably just AL's way of pointing the media in this direction anyways. Seems like were always a story around this time. Who knows maybe KIffen, and Al are watching media reports laughing their asses off. Al is pointing the media this way, trying to get them off the Cheatriots band wagon for awhile. Sometimes I forget about Al's hatred of east coast teams getting all of the media attention. Still however with Rob Ryan staying, it's hard to say if Kiffen is really happy with that descision by AL.

[RHC]

What blows my mind is how the supposed "real" media actually publishes the kind of speculation we throw around on this forum just for the hell of it. That's downright stupid.

[TommyGirl]

It cracks me up how quickly some of you guys are willing to jump on the more radical media speculation as opposed to the moderates.

Who ya' votin' for in this election, SoCal? ;)

[hawaiianboy]

It's hilarious that how if something is written that supports one's slant or prejudices it is taken as gospel and how if it doesn't it's spin and heresay :pound:


But wait: Davis always signs his coaches to two-year deals and Davis keeps multiple team options, so his coaches are tied to him for longer than he is tied to them.

I'm totally confused by this because I always thought the Al standard head coach deal was 3 years with a club option for two more years?...

Kiffin:
Kiffin's contract will pay him $2 million a year for three years, and there are club options for the 2010 and 2011 seasons, according to a team source.
Gruden:
Gruden signed a three-year contract in 1998 with a club option for two more years. and then in 2001Gruden was too exhausted to consider the job as of Monday, but as ESPN.com reported last week the Raiders recently exercised a two-year option on his contract that now runs through 2002 for around $1.3 million annually.
Norval:
Turner signed a three-year, $8 million contract with two option years, according to the San Francisco Chronicle.


Maybe he's deviated in the last two hires because I believe all that was given out in regards to Art was that it was a lifetime deal...


It cracks me up how quickly some of you guys are willing to jump on the more radical media speculation as opposed to the moderates.

Shutee... I happen to have it on good authority that Jon Gruden was indeed on a plane to Ohio and not buying a couple of guitars for his kid in the Bay Area as he claims...

[Jack's sore libido]

In the best-case scenario for Kiffin's Raiders coaching career, it looks like he'll enter his second season stuck with a defensive coordinator he tried to fire and a quarterback he never really wanted.


I stopped reading right there.

Because without a quote or SOMETHING to back that up, it's pure "hating."

[TommyGirl]

You're right, HB.

Kiffin has a three-year contract at two million a year with a two year option.

Jesus. Look it up. The speculation is totally unnecessary. The San Francisco Chronicle, SI, and ESPN all reported the same thing re: Kiffin's contract when he was signed.

It's obvious that I shouldn't stay away from here. The inmates are running the asylum and it looks like the voices of levity are being ignored here.

Never fear. I'm obnoxious enough that I won't be ignored. ;)

[YodasBeast]

Who are you again? I see Iceman in the picture, but you're a lot hazier......

[TommyGirl]

Who are you again? I see Iceman in the picture, but you're a lot hazier......

You can just call me "The Source of Football Wisdom."

Okay, okay. "Your majesty" will do. :D

[jatfly]

Every year we have all the crazy reports coming out about this coach and that coach and someone turning us down and Al being involved with the HC. BLAH BLAH BLAH.....it's all rumors didn't we hear that Kiffin was leaving a few games into the season. The only time I remember anything really happening that was very impactful in the offseason was Gruden leaving and most of us saw that coming as well.

[GRaider]

Every year we have all the crazy reports coming out about this coach and that coach and someone turning us down and Al being involved with the HC. BLAH BLAH BLAH.....it's all rumors didn't we hear that Kiffin was leaving a few games into the season. The only time I remember anything really happening that was very impactful in the offseason was Gruden leaving and most of us saw that coming as well.

A guy on another board put forth the theory that we are keeping RR around so that we can coach the Senior Bowl. I find that to make more sense that anything Kamikaze has ever come up with. I also think that there is a reasonable possibility that we are waiting for the Seachickens to finish their season so we can possibly hire Jim Mora Jr. as our DC. He has history with Knapp and Cable and I'm sure that Kif is aquainted with him. He is also supposed to be a hell of a coach.

[RZ]

Still waiting on someone.. anyone .. to post a link to an article that has a direct quote from Kiff saying that he wants/wanted Ryan Fired. There are many speculation articles, there has GOT to be one that has actually HEARD it from Kiff's mouth right?

[TommyGirl]

A guy on another board put forth the theory that we are keeping RR around so that we can coach the Senior Bowl. I find that to make more sense that anything Kamikaze has ever come up with. I also think that there is a reasonable possibility that we are waiting for the Seachickens to finish their season so we can possibly hire Jim Mora Jr. as our DC. He has history with Knapp and Cable and I'm sure that Kif is aquainted with him. He is also supposed to be a hell of a coach.

Holy crap. I was just thinking about Mora, actually. That makes some sense to me, but it's a title downgrade for the guy (as I was just reminded).

[GRaider]

Still waiting on someone.. anyone .. to post a link to an article that has a direct quote from Kiff saying that he wants/wanted Ryan Fired. There are many speculation articles, there has GOT to be one that has actually HEARD it from Kiff's mouth right?


Good point. I want RR fired. Does that count?

[RZ]

Holy crap. I was just thinking about Mora, actually. That makes some sense to me, but it's a title downgrade for the guy (as I was just reminded).

Yer not alone in thinking about Mora... I was thinking about him coming to Oakland before the regular season even started lol

Good point. I want RR fired. Does that count?

I wish :p

[S and B Executioner]

Kiffin needs to shut the fuck up and coach the team to win. He's not the GM here. He has been handed a lot of talent, whether it's exactly what he wants or not. Now he needs to put those players in the best possible position to win.

If he doesn't like the way Ryan does things then he needs to tell Ryan how he wants things done.

I would rather have had Brady Quinn too. Didn't happen. Suck it up. Russell can play the game. As the HC you have to know how to set his team up around him. That's your fucking job.


TALENT??

We have 2 LB's, 1 CB an unproven rook QB and decent rook TE.

After that, all bets are off. This team lacks talent like Al lacks a fountain of youth.

Where there is smoke, THERE IS FIRE!!

AL NEEDS TO DIE! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TommyGirl]

I agree that there's not a lot of talent on the D-Line. The linebackers are adequate, and I'm still puzzled at what they're doing with Huff. I think some of the "talent" problems can be solved with some good coaching.

However, the broken record Al dying stuff is getting old for me already. We know what your opinion is. Let's work on the originality, shall we?

[Freakshow]

I also think that there is a reasonable possibility that we are waiting for the Seachickens to finish their season so we can possibly hire Jim Mora Jr. as our DC. He has history with Knapp and Cable and I'm sure that Kif is aquainted with him. He is also supposed to be a hell of a coach.

Last time we showed even the slightest interest in Jim Mora Jr. he turned us down flat, scoffed at a potential HC interview and bolted for Atlanta. Me thinks Al remembers such insolence.

[RNorris]

I initially thought Mora Jr as well (especially with the Knapp and Cable connection) but as Crow reminded me, Mora Jr has an asistant HC tag up in Seattle.

[TommyGirl]

Yeah. Crow reminded me, too. I see he cried like a baby to you about it.

[hawaiianboy]

Last time we showed even the slightest interest in Jim Mora Jr. he turned us down flat, scoffed at a potential HC interview and bolted for Atlanta. Me thinks Al remembers such insolence.


My memory may be failing me with these interview processes every two years, but didn't we interview both Mora and Knapp for the HC job that year?... I think Mora took the bird in hand, better paying job with Atlanta a week or so later while we were busy dragging our feet supposedly waiting on a chance to talk to Charlie Weis?... A wait we abandoned when Al was 'supposedly' talked into hiring Turner?...

Funny how all the bad decisions occur when Al is supposedly 'talked' into something :pound: I've taken a page from the Al Davis pass the buck playbook and now blame all my blunders on my wife...

[Crow]

Yeah. Crow reminded me, too. I see he cried like a baby to you about it.

Sorry, Teeg. Yer the only girl here. I'll leave the crying to you and Hillary.

[GRaider]

AL NEEDS TO DIE! NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

I would settle for him being declared incompetent.

[GRaider]

I've taken a page from the Al Davis pass the buck playbook and now blame all my blunders on my wife...

Hell! I've been doing that for years.

[S and B Executioner]

I would settle for him being declared incompetent.

Shit, that happened years ago, but it was only when Al's doctors talked him into allowing the diagnosis.

[Byron2112]

I don't think Mora's the defensive coordinator there. The other night after the game I was watching the Mike Holmgren Show and he said Mora was the DB coach....?

[GRaider]

I don't think Mora's the defensive coordinator there. The other night after the game I was watching the Mike Holmgren Show and he said Mora was the DB coach....?


I think they have him tagged with the "assistant head coach" title though. Which is obviously BS. I don't think they would refuse us permission to interview him though.

[BigTron]

I MIGHT believe this article if it didnt seem like it was taking shots at Al Davis the whoel time? So much for being objective and REPORTING ACTUAL FACTS.

[BigTron]

If Kiffin wants out so bad and didnt want JaMarcus then he is a damn good liar. He was happy as a kid on christmas day when we drafted JR. He wasnt just being a good company guy. He said things like it was an easy choice, we got the guy we knew we wanted the whole time etc. If the guy didnt want JaMarcus his ego wouldnt of let him act that way. He might have said he was happy but unless Kiffin is 100% full of shit and is a pussy push over then he really wanted JaMarcus. And if JaMarcus isnt the guy for Kiffins offense how the fuck did he have a QB rating of 91.3 in his first career start vs a damn good playoff team?

Shouldnt waste my time refuting garbage like this but i do it for the naysayers of the world and those who panic when reading this crap. Your all welcome : >

[BigTron]

Raider Blog McDonald - No cash or picks for Ryan
That kills that theory!!!

No cash or picks for Ryan

By Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer
Tuesday, January 8th, 2008 at 3:26 pm in Oakland Raiders.

Forget the theory that Al Davis is trying to figure out a way to get cash or a draft pick for defensive coordinator Rob Ryan.

“Draft choices and/or cash can be used to only to acquire head coaches or president/GMs, not assistant coaches or any other club employees,” NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said via e-mail Tuesday.

http://www.ibabuzz.com/raidersblog/2...icks-for-ryan/

[SoCalRaider]

Kiffin needs to shut the fuck up and coach the team to win. He's not the GM here. He has been handed a lot of talent, whether it's exactly what he wants or not. Now he needs to put those players in the best possible position to win.

If he doesn't like the way Ryan does things then he needs to tell Ryan how he wants things done.

I would rather have had Brady Quinn too. Didn't happen. Suck it up. Russell can play the game. As the HC you have to know how to set his team up around him. That's your fucking job.

Good stuff... I like the part of Kiffin taking more ownership of things and getting people to do things his way... I think that's easier said than done around here... Though to Kiffin's credit, he appears to have kept his composure pretty well through this.





“Draft choices and/or cash can be used to only to acquire head coaches or president/GMs, not assistant coaches or any other club employees,” NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said via e-mail Tuesday.

Was waiting for some clarification on this... For some reason I thought the NFL put an end to trading head coaches after the Gruden deal...

[CrossBones]

Well then the only other thing we have to hang our hat on regarindg the on again off again firing of Rob Ryan is this Senior Bowl coaching staff in palce thing. *shrug*

We'll know sooner than later I suppose. I tried subscribing to SoCal's "Premium" service and got rejected for some reason so I'm not help.

[raiderfreak7]

Was waiting for some clarification on this... For some reason I thought the NFL put an end to trading head coaches after the Gruden deal...

It says you can trade head coaches, just not assistants.

[SoCalRaider]

Well then the only other thing we have to hang our hat on regarindg the on again off again firing of Rob Ryan is this Senior Bowl coaching staff in palce thing. *shrug*

Or maybe he really isn't going anywhere.... I think the Senior Bowl thing is more of a coincidence than anything else. Why would Al send a potential Jet assistant to something that should be dedicated to the Raider coaching staff...






We'll know sooner than later I suppose. I tried subscribing to SoCal's "Premium" service and got rejected for some reason so I'm not help.

:D

I think your check bounced... The membership drive is complete for now... I'll put you at the top of the waitlist... Things should open back up as soon as Al does something crazy...

[Raider Bill]

Well then the only other thing we have to hang our hat on regarindg the on again off again firing of Rob Ryan is this Senior Bowl coaching staff in palce thing. *shrug*

We'll know sooner than later I suppose. I tried subscribing to SoCal's "Premium" service and got rejected for some reason so I'm not help.

Or the guy they're targeting is still in the playoff mix.

Kawasaki is a douche.. MacDonald seems to be more in the loop of what's going on IMO

[007]

Good to have you back Bill. Its been a long time.

[Raider Bill]

Good to be back man.. thanks

[raiderfreak7]

Or maybe he really isn't going anywhere.... I think the Senior Bowl thing is more of a coincidence than anything else. Why would Al send a potential Jet assistant to something that should be dedicated to the Raider coaching staff...



Because it wouldn't help the Raiders at all if he was fired and we didn't get to coach the Senior Bowl.

[YodasBeast]

You can just call me "The Source of Football Wisdom."

Okay, okay. "Your majesty" will do. :D

Yes Ma'am.......Your Royal Heiny.....Your Majority.....

[YodasBeast]

Or maybe he really isn't going anywhere.... I think the Senior Bowl thing is more of a coincidence than anything else. Why would Al send a potential Jet assistant to something that should be dedicated to the Raider coaching staff...

Well, if you have to have a complete staff in place to coach the Senior Bowl, then by keeping Ryan on staff until after it, we get to have up close and personal contact with draftees. This gives the coaches/scouts/Davis a leg up on other teams and helps to zero in on the guys they want. It is distinctly possibly that the Jets will still get Ryan, we get our draft kit built and both sides are happy.

[Crow]

It cracks me up how quickly some of you guys are willing to jump on the more radical media speculation as opposed to the moderates.

Who ya' votin' for in this election, SoCal? ;)

Won't matter. The fix is already in. ;)

[Crow]

Well, if you have to have a complete staff in place to coach the Senior Bowl, then by keeping Ryan on staff until after it, we get to have up close and personal contact with draftees. This gives the coaches/scouts/Davis a leg up on other teams and helps to zero in on the guys they want. It is distinctly possibly that the Jets will still get Ryan, we get our draft kit built and both sides are happy.

I knew I should have copyrighted this bit of speculation mongering.

[Rupert]

I think your check bounced... The membership drive is complete for now... I'll put you at the top of the waitlist... Things should open back up as soon as Al does something crazy...
What? You mean you're not going back to the nudie bar until next week? You always have a membership drive when your mom wipes the porn off her laptop. You really need to start saving that stuff to DVD or get your own damned computer.

[SoCalRaider]

Well, if you have to have a complete staff in place to coach the Senior Bowl, then by keeping Ryan on staff until after it, we get to have up close and personal contact with draftees. This gives the coaches/scouts/Davis a leg up on other teams and helps to zero in on the guys they want. It is distinctly possibly that the Jets will still get Ryan, we get our draft kit built and both sides are happy.

My bad... I was referring to a different Al Davis... you know the one who as soon as getting the invite to the Senior Bowl would fire Rob Ryan on the spot and tell the Jets to fuck off with the rest of the NFL...

Now that I think about it.... that's the only Al Davis I know. I have no clue who you're referring to.

[SoCalRaider]

It cracks me up how quickly some of you guys are willing to jump on the more radical media speculation as opposed to the moderates.

Who ya' votin' for in this election, SoCal? ;)

Al Davis..... write-in vote.

[RaiderWilde]

i really don't think there's a Al vs Kiffin feud going on!!!

Raider Nation is like Monday Night Raw... a lot of speculation about who's fighting who and who's gonna backstab who at Royal Rumble, But unti Kiffin smacks Davis with his walker or clipboard inside the ring i don't see there being any actual fight going on.

The simple politics of this all is that Rob Ryan has a job in New York already, Lane and Al have yet to hire Monte, so Kiffin needs his former DC for the Senior Bowl and if Monte signs the dotted line between now and the game in Mobile Alabama then Rob Ryan will continue on as the DC for scouting purposes!!! ( I think Crow speculated this in another KIFFIN TANTRUM Thread somewhere else on the board)

[CrossBones]

I heard Kiffin was perfecting the dreaded "Pedigree" to use on Al if things get nasty in the off season.

You have picture of that? :rotf:

[RaiderWilde]

I heard Kiffin was perfecting the dreaded "Pedigree" to use on Al if things get nasty in the off season.

You have picture of that? :rotf:

No way Kiffin is TRIPLE H... i mean does Al even have a Stephanie he could fuck!!!

Kiffin is more along the lines of that little leprachan Finley has been hanging out with Hogglesworth!!!

Tough Cagey son of a bitch... But ain't big enough or old enough to ride the rollercoaster.:nono:

[jatfly]

And You Know What Kiffin Say's To That.............

I Got Two Words For Ya!!!!









I'm In!

[Crow]

I MIGHT believe this article if it didnt seem like it was taking shots at Al Davis the whoel time? So much for being objective and REPORTING ACTUAL FACTS.
Can't report the facts without bashing Al. The two are inseparable.

I heard Kiffin was perfecting the dreaded "Pedigree" to use on Al if things get nasty in the off season.

You have picture of that? :rotf:
I had Kiff figured as more of a Jeff Hardy.

http://tombstoner.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/jeff.jpg

I could see the kid dropping the patented Swanton Bomb on Al in the warroom.

http://www.freewebs.com/hardyboyzfansite7/vfch.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v251/Rawisrobb/Table_Ladder_Swanton.gif

[Crow]

No way Kiffin is TRIPLE H... i mean does Al even have a Stephanie he could fuck!!!
http://www.ginnyprior.com/images/amy_trask1.jpg

[Raider Bill]

Amy Trask is a sand wedge... she looks good from 85 yards away

[Postmaster]

Staying put: Defensive coordinator Rob Ryan's future in Oakland isn't uncertain. He isn't going anywhere. He and owner Al Davis already have discussed next season, according to a team source. Head coach Lane Kiffin, with one year plus a team option remaining on his contract, supposedly told Davis to fire him if he can't hire and fire coaches. Davis, who's to say the least very hands on with the defense, countered by telling Kiffin to resign if he didn't like it. Ryan's a quality coach whose defense got something of a bad rap this season, but how's any head coach ever supposed to succeed if he can't surround himself with colleagues he trusts? Another reason why the Raiders won't win again anytime soon.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=3187883

[raider60]

Staying put: Defensive coordinator Rob Ryan's future in Oakland isn't uncertain. He isn't going anywhere. He and owner Al Davis already have discussed next season, according to a team source. Head coach Lane Kiffin, with one year plus a team option remaining on his contract, supposedly told Davis to fire him if he can't hire and fire coaches. Davis, who's to say the least very hands on with the defense, countered by telling Kiffin to resign if he didn't like it. Ryan's a quality coach whose defense got something of a bad rap this season, but how's any head coach ever supposed to succeed if he can't surround himself with colleagues he trusts? Another reason why the Raiders won't win again anytime soon.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs07/columns/story?columnist=smith_michael&id=3187883

"Supposedly" huh?

[SoCalRaider]

So is the consensus that Kiffin signed a 2 year deal or a 3 year deal... based on this PFT take, a 3 year deal seems more realistic............


KIFFIN NOT A LAME DUCK

Whenever we hear the phrase "lame duck," we think of former President Jimmy Carter, who described himself in that fashion to a Spanish-speaking crowd after the 1980 election of Ronald Reagan.

However, the translation amounted to a self-outing by the President.

Anyway, a league source tells us that, contrary to reports that Raiders coach Lane Kiffin is entering the final year of his contract, he is neither a lame duck . . . nor a persona quemada. (Not that there's anything incorrecto with that.)

Kiffin has a three year contract, with a team-option for at least two seasons beyond that.

The issue arose because some in the media believe that Raiders owner Al Davis was using Kiffin's desire to dump defensive coordinator Rob Ryan as a way to get Kiffin to extend his contract beyond next season.

(Even if Kiffin's base contract is only for two years, the idea that Davis and the Raiders wouldn't have tacked a team option onto the end of the initial term is more than a bit unrealistic, and we probably should have thought of that when we read the media reports indicating that Kiffin would be able to walk away after 2008.)

Meanwhile, there's a belief in some league circles that Davis opted to keep Ryan not as a slap in the face to Kiffin, but because Davis doesn't like the fact that the Jets reportedly lined Ryan up to become their next defensive coordinator while Ryan still had/has a job. While league rules prevent Davis from "trading" the final year of Ryan's deal to New York (that device is available only for head coaches), Davis might have decided to merely keep Ryan around long enough for the Jets to make other plans for 2008 at defensive coordinator, and then fire him.

For his part, Ryan really can't say anything other than "I'm happy to be here." Plenty of league insiders think that Rob Ryan and his brother Rex have a glass ceiling due to the past antics of their father, Buddy Ryan. The last thing either of them needs is for one of them to start popping off to the press.

[Crow]

Ryan's a quality coach whose defense got something of a bad rap this season
http://www.aeropause.com/archives/wtf-cat.jpg

Are you fucking kidding me? Label this guy's credibility dogshit.

Maybe Ryan could coach his scheme better than Al's. But in 4 years, he hasn't demonstrated the ability to teach a single sumbitch how to tackle.

Fuck Ryan.

...but how's any head coach ever supposed to succeed if he can't surround himself with colleagues he trusts? Another reason why the Raiders won't win again anytime soon.

Church. Preach. Tabernacle.

[SoCalRaider]

Maybe Ryan could coach his scheme better than Al's. But in 4 years, he hasn't demonstrated the ability to teach a single sumbitch how to tackle.

Fuck Ryan.


I thought we tackled pretty well when Ted Washington was clogging the middle.

[CrossBones]

"Allegedly".... :rolleyes:

So is the consensus that Kiffin signed a 2 year deal or a 3 year deal... based on this PFT take, a 3 year deal seems more realistic............Somehow I think we're gonna know for sure in September. Hmph.

[TommyGirl]

Are you fucking kidding me? Label this guy's credibility dogshit.

Maybe Ryan could coach his scheme better than Al's. But in 4 years, he hasn't demonstrated the ability to teach a single sumbitch how to tackle.

Fuck Ryan.



Church. Preach. Tabernacle.

Wow. I want to agree with what you say, but I can't tell through all the cussing.

[Raider Bill]

I wonder if the problem isn't so much Ryan, but our (Al's?) insistance on playing almost exclusively man.

Other teams are more successful stopping the run using 1 gap principles but their Safties and corners are facing the play, not turning hips and running.

[CrossBones]

I wonder if the problem isn't so much Ryan, but our (Al's?) insistance on playing almost exclusively man.It's what Al knows. It's what Al is comfortable with. It's impoosible to teach this old dog new tricks. Still, is this Al inssiting on this or Ryan's inability to adjsut and devise schemes to play to the players strengths or lack of strengths?

Other teams are more successful stopping the run using 1 gap principles but their Safties and corners are facing the play, not turning hips and running.Exactly. It's just old school and IMO needs to change . Trying to play man coverage 90% of the time is killing us. Maybe it'll be better if we can conssitenly pressure the QB (when it counts) which we haven't really done for 5-6 years maybe longer. :cry:

[Raidermania12]

Wow. I want to agree with what you say, but I can't tell through all the cussing.

What's your beef with vulgar language? It's the cornerstone of american culture. Don't be so euro. :D


Seriously though, Ryan does not deserve to keep his job. But if all Al Davis will hire is talking heads, what's the point either way i guess?

[Raider Bill]

It's what Al knows. It's what Al is comfortable with. It's impoosible to teach this old dog new tricks. Still, is this Al inssiting on this or Ryan's inability to adjsut and devise schemes to play to the players strengths or lack of strengths?

Exactly. It's just old school and IMO needs to change . Trying to play man coverage 90% of the time is killing us. Maybe it'll be better if we can conssitenly pressure the QB (when it counts) which we haven't really done for 5-6 years maybe longer. :cry:

We always seem to look clueless in zone. I wonder if it's just a matter of not practicing it enough.

Our defense kinda appears to be using the same/similar looks no matter who's coordinating.

The "Davis interference" angle may likely be valid, I just wonder to what degree.

If you're going to demand a guy not blitz or use zone coverage, that's like telling a pitcher not to use his curve and slider.

[S and B Executioner]

"Supposedly" huh?

That had to come from Len or Mort who were clearly in the same room when these discussions took place. While I don't really believe the conversation went the way it was written, it sounds SO FUCKING AL!!!!

[S and B Executioner]

We always seem to look clueless in zone. I wonder if it's just a matter of not practicing it enough.

Our defense kinda appears to be using the same/similar looks no matter who's coordinating.

The "Davis interference" angle may likely be valid, I just wonder to what degree.

If you're going to demand a guy not blitz or use zone coverage, that's like telling a pitcher not to use his curve and slider.

Exactly!! Ryan will coach elsewhere in a couple of weeks or years and he will have a defense that is a dominant one. He is stiffled by Al's insistance to be a MAN based defense. The game of today doesn't develop guys who can play man d on an every down basis. Today, we have the same defense we had under Corky, Shaw, and every other DC from 1990 on.

Now, I could agree with Al's concept of running the same defense year in and year out, IF IT WORKED!! But it doesn't and it hasn't for a long time. Look at the Walsh/Shell offense from a year ago. It is antiquated like our defensive philosophy. Al has to begin seeing that his football game and todays football game are light years apart!!!! We will never compete if AL DOESN'T EVOLVE or go away!!

[Raider Bill]

I don't want to go down a whole Al bashing road, because there aint shit I can do about it.

It is what it is.

I will say, from everything I've read most of the advantages and edges the Raiders used to take with regard to player acquisition back in the day, Davis was the impetus behind. Most of those are long gone now.. all teams scout the small black colleges for example.

Without that overwhelming talent advantage I don't know that this system can work.

[TommyGirl]

I don't want to go down a whole Al bashing road, because there aint shit I can do about it.


:eek:

WELCOME BACK, BILL!

[S and B Executioner]

Ya, I forgot to welcome Bill back as well! Welcome back bro!

[Raider Bill]

Well, I know we're not supposed to get all religious on here, but with regards to Al Davis, I think you have to invoke the Serenity Prayer and just "accept the things you cannot change" by tirelessly posting on a message board.. LOL

:pound:

[Langlier]

I think the scheme "can" work but we need a few more key cogs and the right mindset behind it.

1. Not afraid to blitz. we open up a few more blitzes and all of a sudden our man guys are going to make more plays.

2. Adequate over the top help. Need, need neeeeeeeeed a guy at FS who can cover deep center field. Recognize quickly which direction a pass is going and then TACKLE the guy it goes to.

3. Active DL - probably what has most been missing for a long time. the DL needs to make plays. Preferably in the backfield. Pressure from the DEs and gap coverage from the DTs. We've had pursuit issues with our LBs because the DL can't keep the pressure off of them. A couple more playmakers (haynesworth and long? along side Burgess and Kelly/Warren would be beastly) would completely transform how effective our back 7 is.

[CrossBones]

The "Davis interference" angle may likely be valid, I just wonder to what degree.As much as don't want to believe that Al is calling defensive signals from his luxury box I heard something today (and no there is not link you MFers) that really has me wondering. Frankly Crow might be onto something but I don't want to jump to conclusions. :D

[CrossBones]

I don't want to go down a whole Al bashing road, because there aint shit I can do about it.

It is what it is.

I will say, from everything I've read most of the advantages and edges the Raiders used to take with regard to player acquisition back in the day, Davis was the impetus behind. Most of those are long gone now.. all teams scout the small black colleges for example.

Without that overwhelming talent advantage I don't know that this system can work.Well yeah. When you have eight HOF players on your team you can fuck up a lot of shit and still get the job done. We have zero on our team now and developing new ones isn't looking good either.

[Crow]

Well, I know we're not supposed to get all religious on here, but with regards to Al Davis, I think you have to invoke the Serenity Prayer and just "accept the things you cannot change" by tirelessly posting on a message board.. LOL

:pound:
Can the church get an amen?

[Byron2112]

I think there has to be some truth to the Al angle... now that you guys mention it our defense has really performed at the same mediorcre level for the last 20 years... and we've had some good defensive coaches come through here... but we never really seem to have a solid, sustained jump in performance.

I remember John Fox looking pretty promising, then he split in the middle of the night and was never heard from again... the rumor being there was interferance/fallout with Al.

Bill makes a good point about talent. The last time our D was really impressive we had two HOF corners and a D-line rotation of:

Sean Jones
Bill Pickell
Howie Long
Greg Townsend
Lyle Alzado and
Reggie Kinlaw

:eek:


... with a buncha All-Pros in between.

Al's not going to live long enough to see that kinda talent compiled again.

[S and B Executioner]

Can the church get an amen?

AMEN!

I will refrain from anymore "stating the obvious" in regards to Al fucking this team left and right with stupid decisions, bad press box coaching and even worse scouting on his own behalf................

[Raider Bill]

I think there has to be some truth to the Al angle... now that you guys mention it our defense has really performed at the same mediorcre level for the last 20 years... and we've had some good defensive coaches come through here... but we never really seem to have a solid, sustained jump in performance.

I remember John Fox looking pretty promising, then he split in the middle of the night and was never heard from again... the rumor being there was interferance/fallout with Al.

Bill makes a good point about talent. The last time our D was really impressive we had two HOF corners and a D-line rotation of:

Sean Jones
Bill Pickell
Howie Long
Greg Townsend
Lyle Alzado and
Reggie Kinlaw

:eek:


... with a buncha All-Pros in between.

Al's not going to live long enough to see that kinda talent compiled again.


That was even some good shit late in Long's career where we had so many good DE's that Howie played 3 technique... kinda like Coughlin's Giants now.

[Byron2112]

Doesn't it kinda seem like we get a new D-coordinator and the energy is good, there's improvement, then over the next several seasons there's kind of a long, slow, decline back to where we were?

It's almost like Al lets these guys come in and do there thing then starts weighing in and grinding on them and pushing them back to what we were doing before they got here.

Speculation, but that's the kind of the pattern I recall... I mean, no one has come in here and overhauled the whole shootin match, and just kicked ass with some scheme and playcalling that just fuggin blows us all away.

It's not like Al can't recognize talented coaches either, but our defense never advances or evolves beyond that middle-of-the-pack/adequate level.

Something's fishy there...

[BigTron]

Doesn't it kinda seem like we get a new D-coordinator and the energy is good, there's improvement, then over the next several seasons there's kind of a long, slow, decline back to where we were?

It's almost like Al lets these guys come in and do there thing then starts weighing in and grinding on them and pushing them back to what we were doing before they got here.

Speculation, but that's the kind of the pattern I recall... I mean, no one has come in here and overhauled the whole shootin match, and just kicked ass with some scheme and playcalling that just fuggin blows us all away.

It's not like Al can't recognize talented coaches either, but our defense never advances or evolves beyond that middle-of-the-pack/adequate level.

Something's fishy there...

Than we should praise AL for making Ryan dump that 3-4 with Brayton and D.Grant playing OLB and Sapp playing DE. Good thing he meddled there.

[Byron2112]

Don't you find that strange tho?

We've had innovative offense, but the D just stagnates around here....

[BigTron]

Don't you find that strange tho?

We've had innovative offense, but the D just stagnates around here....

I just dont understand how we get ran on by some of the teams. Did we really let Chester Taylor go off with T.Jackson at QB? How? If we lost that game i would feel better if we made the Qb work. Why play their style?

[Raider Bill]

It never seemed like we fully commited to that 3-4.

We went out and signed 2/3rds of New Englands DL, then other than Danny Clark brought in noone at LB.

Then we signed Sapp.. where the heck was he supposed to fit in?

That appeared to be a "Davis signing". Wasn't Sapp talking to the Chiefs or something?

That's one thing where you can legimitiely criticize AD IMO. Just like the Jordan situation this year... cut the fucking guy and get a look at Bush.. we were too concerned with where he was going to land that we kinda fucked ourselves.

[Byron2112]

Well, I recall reading where Al flat out admitted he often takes players thinking how he'd use them and not neccesarily how they fit with his current coaches approach... Think he was talking about Moss.

[NIPS]

Have a little Faith & Hope ladies... and I aint talking about the 2 hookas RaiderBill fingerbanged in Albuquerque

[Madturk]

You know I'm almost at the point where I think we just go balls to the wall in shoring up the offense, be it McFadden, Ocho Cinco, several OL additions and just try to score 35-40 a game. I think someone brought this exact premise up a while back. Really have my doubts that we'll be a dominant type defense anytime soon.

[Raider Bill]

The goddamn qb must go down and he must go down hard!

[CrossBones]

You know I'm almost at the point where I think we just go balls to the wall in shoring up the offense, be it McFadden, Ocho Cinco, several OL additions and just try to score 35-40 a game. I think someone brought this exact premise up a while back. Really have my doubts that we'll be a dominant type defense anytime soon.That was HB's idea (http://www.afcwestforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3131) sort of. It's growing on me some. NE seems to be doing fine with that approach as their defense isn't exactly the '85 Bears. The key is JaMarcus.

The goddamn qb must go down and he must go down hard!Not lately bro. :(

[Byron2112]

Yeah, I'm definatly warming up to the balls out offensive push. Scoring is fun, and offensive fireworks are exciting to watch... we got the QB now, and we otta get him going for sure.

Really if we can just shore up the middle of the D already it would be more than adequate. We do have some playmakers there and some guys that can cause turnovers for us, but a D that can get run on for 200+ any givin sunday just isn't worth a shit. Something has got to be done there.

[007]

Im hoping for some balance, personally.

Add one a veteran WR, maybe a solid OL and a strong safety through free agency.

Add a DE/DT/WR/OT through the draft, if possible.

I think we lack talent, but we're more like 5 players away than 10 or 15.

[Crow]

The goddamn qb must go down and he must go down hard!
In other words, funkabuncha Ocho Cinco, Legend, and Larry Fitz. Drop that coin on Corey Williams, Justin Smith (cheaper anyway). If Shaun Rogers really is available, go get him. Grab Long in Rd1, best DT available in Rd2, re-up with Clemons, and with whatever rolled up pennies we have left, go find a WR.

[Madturk]

In other words, funkabuncha Ocho Cinco, Legend, and Larry Fitz. Drop that coin on Corey Williams, Justin Smith (cheaper anyway). If Shaun Rogers really is available, go get him. Grab Long in Rd1, best DT available in Rd2, re-up with Clemons, and with whatever rolled up pennies we have left, go find a WR.

Yeah and drop all eleven back in coverage:nono:

[Crow]

Might as well rush all 11 with the way our defense has fallen off.

[Machiavelli]

Might as well rush all 11 with the way our defense has fallen off.

Rush 10 with Stu staying back, it's kinda what he does. It'd be a funky ass cover 1.

[BigTron]

I think the players all asking for Ryan to stay says has alot to do with this strange situation. Nnamdi Asomugha might want to re-sign only if he is in the same defense?

[SoCalRaider]

Nnamdi Asomugha might want to re-sign only if he is in the same defense?

I have a feeling it all starts and ends with money... As a CB, your biggest payday is usually your 2nd contract.... By the time your 3rd contract rolls around, teams start using your age against you...

[BigTron]

I have a feeling it all starts and ends with money... As a CB, your biggest payday is usually your 2nd contract.... By the time your 3rd contract rolls around, teams start using your age against you...

I 1000% agree. But there are other factor's. Because he is getting big money, he still gets to choose where from.

[SoCalRaider]

Long winded article... but some interesting takeaways....

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/raiders/home.htm

When the Raiders were facing Indianapolis, Lane Kiffin gave a telling answer regarding his preference for the Cover 2 defense as installed by Tony Dungy with the Colts and Bucs.

"They continue to plug people in . . . they coach to their beliefs and philosophies," Lane Kiffin said. "They don't do very much, they're not very complicated, but they're doing extremely well.

"To me, that's the hardest defense you can face, when they don't do very much but they do it so well. They just continue to shut people down."

He also lauded their ability to find talent — the kind of talent that often eludes the Raiders with their adherence to specific physical qualities.

"They play really hard and they tackle real well, and they're small all over the place," Kiffin said. "Their linebackers are 5-11, a 5-9 safety, a 6-foot defense end. They get a lot of people later in rounds that other people don't take because of size or because of what they see that other people don't. In that system, tackling is one of the first things you evaluate, and you can see it."

The Raiders were one of the worst tackling teams in the NFL in 2007.


RB Justin Fargas gained 1,009 yards and averaged 4.8 yards per carry in a contract year. The Raiders would like him back, but not for huge money. Coach Lane Kiffin is of the belief the zone blocking system is as important as the runners in compiling stats.

WR Jerry Porter exercised a void in his contract and will look for big money, which may not come after 44 receptions for 705 yards. The Raiders would be interested in his return at the right price.

DE Chris Clemons had eight sacks as a nickel rusher, coming out of nowhere as a fringe player, and he could price himself out of Oakland's reach.

C Jeremy Newberry and T Cornell Green will be monitored for injuries and wear-and-tear. Kiffin has already professed a desire for S Jarrod Cooper's return. DE Tommy Kelly is rehabbing an ACL, and the Raiders are expected to attempt to re-sign him.





FEELING A DRAFT: Drafting No. 3 or 4, (they'll flip a coin with the Falcons at the combine) expect the Raiders to address their soft defensive line. Assuming LSU tackle Glenn Dorsey is off the board, there are two intriguing prospects. Chris Long of Virginia is a 3-4 end who can play anywhere and is a legacy — his dad is ex-Raider Howie Long.

But the guess here, especially if Warren Sapp retires as expected, is USC defensive tackle Sedrick Ellis, an active, aggressive and difficult-to-block player who could energize the Raiders front. Ellis was recruited to USC during Kiffin's watch as recruiting coordinator.

[S and B Executioner]

In other words, funkabuncha Ocho Cinco, Legend, and Larry Fitz. Drop that coin on Corey Williams, Justin Smith (cheaper anyway). If Shaun Rogers really is available, go get him. Grab Long in Rd1, best DT available in Rd2, re-up with Clemons, and with whatever rolled up pennies we have left, go find a WR.


Now your talkin!!!!!!!!! Bring in a decent LT tackle as well and all is well in the world!

[SoCalRaider]

Kiffin’s job could be in danger over perceived disloyalty, control of coaching staff
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/WWHI/2007/wwhi2228.htm
By Trent Modglin
Jan. 14, 2008

Bobby Petrino resigned and Cam Cameron was fired, meaning two of the NFL’s three first-time head coaches in 2007 have already been relieved of their duties. The way we hear it, Al Davis may be exploring ways to make it a perfect trifecta after learning of Lane Kiffin’s disloyalty stemming from his expressed interest in vacancies at a pair of prominent universities.

Despite his strong denials, Kiffin, sources confirmed, showed interest in the Arkansas position for which Petrino abruptly left the Falcons, and he expressed great interest in the previously vacant Michigan job that was eventually awarded to West Virginia head coach Rich Rodriguez.

Sources told PFW that Davis and Kiffin have disagreed over the composition of the roster dating back to the draft, when Kiffin sought to overhaul the loose, rebel culture fostered by the aging owner but was able to accomplish little with Davis holding full authority over the 53-man roster.

Tensions have mounted in recent weeks over the coaching staff. Team officials spent the last week working on coaching contracts and the financial future of the roster, but no word of Kiffin’s future was mentioned.

With a defense that slipped from a No. 3 ranking to 22nd overall, Kiffin sought to correct the defense with his own coach. However, the staunchly loyal Davis holds control over the coaching staff and vetoed the move to fire defensive coordinator Rob Ryan, who interviewed for the head-coaching job prior to Kiffin’s appointment and remains in high regard by Davis and fellow coaches around the league.

“Lane is going to stand up to Al,” one source with knowledge of the front-office dynamics said. “In a lot of ways, he's a young Jon Gruden. But he is not stupid and is not going to quit.”

Sources have told PFW that the notoriously frugal Davis, who paid a $2 million settlement to Art Shell last season, is said to be exploring the best exit strategy for Kiffin and debating whether to give Kiffin what he wants — an easy out of Oakland. Confounding Davis’ decision is his desire to win now and the importance of maintaining some continuity, something he would keep by promoting Ryan to head coach. :neener:

Ryan, who was retained by Davis after the firings of Norv Turner and Shell, is believed to be the most logical candidate for the top job should Kiffin be let go. The last time Davis intervened in a similar fashion came after the 1998 season, when former head coach Mike Shanahan tried to fire Shell, then the team’s OL coach. The following season, Shanahan was let go and replaced by Shell.

The decision to promote Ryan would give the Raiders their fifth head coach in seven seasons since Gruden was essentially traded to Tampa Bay in 2002. However, with Pete Carroll’s name surfacing for the job in Atlanta, sources speculate that the ever-wavering Davis will wait for all other vacancies to be filled, as he has done in recent years, before making any move and might just decide to let another year play out before letting Kiffin off the hook.

[Langlier]

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, Conjecture, Speculation, I have no sources and am pulling shit out of my ass... BLAH BLAH BLAH

fixed that article for you.

[SoCalRaider]

Thanx man..... that was funny....... :rolleyes:

[Langlier]

Thanx man..... that was funny....... :rolleyes:

about as funny as another random speculation article :rolleyes:

[Crow]

Seems it's only speculation when people don't like what they're reading.


I can't wait for this idiot to go to his mother. The sideshow is beyond tired.

[CrossBones]

I've maintained it's speculation all along. But sometimes you just can't discount all the speculation. The smoke/fire theory comes into play at some point.

I hope all this is dead wrong but it doesn't really seem possible. I doubt the media types are sitting at their typewriters just making this shit up.

At this ploint I'm just not going to worry about it and see what happens.

[Raider Bill]

Hmm... well that aint good, if true.

[Langlier]

oh theres probably a modium of truth to it. but trying to figure out the 10% truth to the 90% bullcrap isnt worth it most of the time.

and it is all speculation... the guy lists no sources, has no previous connections to the raiders... he read and expanded on some bullcrap from another few guys with no sources.

[Rupert]

Well, here's the problem: a reporter gets a word of tension from someone they know in the front office and reports it. A rival reporter or his/her editor reads the article and asks their inside connection, from whom they get the same sketchy story, and it's reported again, and again, and again. And eventually there seems to be a lot of smoke, so there must be fire.

When doors are closed you can hear the shouting, but you can't hear the quiet words. What are the quiet words? Disagreement? Agreement? Decisions? Debate? Who knows, because only the parties involved heard them. So all we get are the loud exchanges. And as Langlier suggests, that's 10% of the story at best. Why do reporters write about it? Because it's all they've got.

Now it's fine and dandy for the gloom and doom crowd to hang their hats on the same kind of story that's formed their opinion in the first place. It's no great surprise either. It's a logical conclusion from how scattered and erratic the club has been over the past 5 years. And when the owner has been such an integral part of everything the club does, it would be illogical to assume he's not the prime reason for the lack of consistency (some would claim that we are consistently bad, but a proper analysis shows inconsistency not consistency).

But I've got to ask you, what does all the bashing produce? Positive feelings? Joy and happiness? Will calling for Al's death or resignation make either happen? No. All they do is prolong the agony, fear, uncertainty, and doubt. It works for terrorists. It seems the media are terrorists for Raider Nation hoping to convince us to elect their candidate for owner; a warmer, friendlier, cuddly owner who'll happily go along with whipping boy status so he can sit beside the Bidwills, Browns, and Lerners of the league as they manipulate the outcome of games to satisfy their need for grand storylines like undefeated seasons and fabulous retirement scenarios.

[CrossBones]

Well, here's the problem: a reporter gets a word of tension from someone they know in the front office and reports it. A rival reporter or his/her editor reads the article and asks their inside connection, from whom they get the same sketchy story, and it's reported again, and again, and again. And eventually there seems to be a lot of smoke, so there must be fire.

When doors are closed you can hear the shouting, but you can't hear the quiet words. What are the quiet words? Disagreement? Agreement? Decisions? Debate? Who knows, because only the parties involved heard them. So all we get are the loud exchanges. And as Langlier suggests, that's 10% of the story at best. Why do reporters write about it? Because it's all they've got.

Now it's fine and dandy for the gloom and doom crowd to hang their hats on the same kind of story that's formed their opinion in the first place. It's no great surprise either. It's a logical conclusion from how scattered and erratic the club has been over the past 5 years. And when the owner has been such an integral part of everything the club does, it would be illogical to assume he's not the prime reason for the lack of consistency (some would claim that we are consistently bad, but a proper analysis shows inconsistency not consistency).

But I've got to ask you, what does all the bashing produce? Positive feelings? Joy and happiness? Will calling for Al's death or resignation make either happen? No. All they do is prolong the agony, fear, uncertainty, and doubt. It works for terrorists. It seems the media are terrorists for Raider Nation hoping to convince us to elect their candidate for owner; a warmer, friendlier, cuddly owner who'll happily go along with whipping boy status so he can sit beside the Bidwills, Browns, and Lerners of the league as they manipulate the outcome of games to satisfy their need for grand storylines like undefeated seasons and fabulous retirement scenarios.Homer. :pound:

In all seriousness Rup...I agree with you to a point. I'm just hoping this gets resolved IF it's a problem and that we can let Kiffin finish the job he started.

[RZ]

Well, the way I heard it is that Tom Cables daughter was raped & knocked up by Millards son. Cable threatened to leave because Ryan wouldn't fire Millard. That upset Knapp who said he was leaving as well and Kiffen had to do something, so he told Ryan that Millard was going to be released and Ryan got pissed and slammed the door, so Kiffen decided to Fire Ryan and Millard both... however, Amy Trask has been having an affair with Millard and forced Davis to overrule Kiffen's decision to fire Ryan and Millard. Meanwhile, Cable's daughter has filed rape charges against Millards son who had been arrested and awaiting trial. Kiffen, Cable and Knapp could all be leaving the organization right after the Sr Bowl, all because Both Millard's couldn't keep their pecker's in the pants....

There, now you have the REAL story behind it all.

[hawaiianboy]

The way we hear it, Al Davis may be exploring ways to make it a perfect trifecta after learning of Lane Kiffin’s disloyalty stemming from his expressed interest in vacancies at a pair of prominent universities.

So one set of 'sources' indicate that Al is looking to feed Kiffin to the sharks, another set of sources are indicating that Al is trying to strongarm some extra years onto Kiffs contract.... :confused:


Despite his strong denials, Kiffin, sources confirmed, showed interest in the Arkansas position for which Petrino abruptly left the Falcons, and he expressed great interest in the previously vacant Michigan job that was eventually awarded to West Virginia head coach Rich Rodriguez.

After falling for the Gruden is in South Bend and Gruden is headed to coach the Florida Gators stuff, I think I'll wait for some concrete proof with this one...


Sources told PFW that Davis and Kiffin have disagreed over the composition of the roster dating back to the draft, when Kiffin sought to overhaul the loose, rebel culture fostered by the aging owner but was able to accomplish little with Davis holding full authority over the 53-man roster.

"Ryan pushes to cut Moses and Frampton to undermine Kiffin."
"Kiffin cuts Moses to send a message to Ryan"
"Al has full authority over the 53 man roster"

Color me confused... all I know is a handful of Al's scholarship guys got their walking papers out of the league and Randy Moss got 86'ed which seems to fly opposite of what this particular reporter is selling...


Confounding Davis’ decision is his desire to win now and the importance of maintaining some continuity, something he would keep by promoting Ryan to head coach. :neener:


Be careful what you wish for there Homey... If it's true that we're seeing all these vanilla defenses and lack of blitz packages because that's the way "Al prefers it", we're awfully close to putting yet another Al puppet in power if this angle has any meat to it... Myself, I prefer a coach that's going to have some buck to him when Al puts the spurs down...

I don't know what's true and what isn't, but this is like watching the same bad movie with alternate endings available on DVD... All I know is that until Al fully commits to a head coach, we're going to be continue floundering below the Mendoza line...

Seems it's only speculation when people don't like what they're reading.

True, but that knife cuts both ways... It shouldn't be taken as gospel just because it supports one's argument either... Something I think we all fall victim to on occasion...

[Langlier]

Well, the way I heard it is that Tom Cables daughter was raped & knocked up by Millards son. Cable threatened to leave because Ryan wouldn't fire Millard. That upset Knapp who said he was leaving as well and Kiffen had to do something, so he told Ryan that Millard was going to be released and Ryan got pissed and slammed the door, so Kiffen decided to Fire Ryan and Millard both... however, Amy Trask has been having an affair with Millard and forced Davis to overrule Kiffen's decision to fire Ryan and Millard. Meanwhile, Cable's daughter has filed rape charges against Millards son who had been arrested and awaiting trial. Kiffen, Cable and Knapp could all be leaving the organization right after the Sr Bowl, all because Both Millard's couldn't keep their pecker's in the pants....

There, now you have the REAL story behind it all.

its as credible as the rest of the bs we've heard

[SoCalRaider]

So one set of 'sources' indicate that Al is looking to feed Kiffin to the sharks, another set of sources are indicating that Al is trying to strongarm some extra years onto Kiffs contract.... :confused:


I think the second set of sources (led mostly by MacDonald who is a strong Kiffin advocate) put forth a theory that is more wishful thinking than anything. It's highly doubtful that Kiffin controls any of the option years in his contract... so Al already has all the leverage in the world. The first set of sources may be onto something with the idea that Al may be willing to consider ways to rid himself of Kiffin... but I highly doubt that happens unless Al gets some major compensation in return.






"Al has full authority over the 53 man roster"

Color me confused... all I know is a handful of Al's scholarship guys got their walking papers out of the league and Randy Moss got 86'ed which seems to fly opposite of what this particular reporter is selling...


I dunno... Kiffin may have succeeded in convincing Al to do a lot of things with the roster including getting rid of Moss and some of the scholarship guys... but that doesn't necessarily mean that Al didn't have final say. A coach with the final say doesn't come across as pissed as Kiffin did when Moses was cut... and a coach with final say isn't at such a loss for words when Bush was put on the IR. I still think all decisions go through Al... to Kiffin's credit, he's done a decent job of convincing Al to get what he wanted from the roster (though I still don't think Kiffin wanted to pick Russell).







Be careful what you wish for there Homey... If it's true that we're seeing all these vanilla defenses and lack of blitz packages because that's the way "Al prefers it", we're awfully close to putting yet another Al puppet in power if this angle has any meat to it... Myself, I prefer a coach that's going to have some buck to him when Al puts the spurs down...


Good point. I'm not necessarily anticipating Ryan would be any improvement over Kiffin... mostly because I don't think it's possible for any coach to win under Al... I just think Ryan getting elevated to head coach is a very distinct possibility... more so than anybody on this board is willing to fathom.

[raiderfreak7]

(though I still don't think Kiffin wanted to pick Russell).


Sorry, I have to ask why?

Prior to the draft Kiffin was salivating over Russell and, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't even go to Brady Quinn's pro day. Hell, the two people who probably know Kiffin the most, Monte Kiffin and Pete Carroll, were quoted as saying that Jamarcus Russell is the type of quarterback Kiffin prefers.

[SoCalRaider]

Prior to the draft Kiffin was salivating over Russell
We'll agree to disagree...





and, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't even go to Brady Quinn's pro day.
I'm not sure how accurate that is, let alone how relevant it is... Kiffin reportedly didn't show to A.Peterson's pro day, but from what I read and heard, Peterson was the top RB on Kiffin's board.






Hell, the two people who probably know Kiffin the most, Monte Kiffin and Pete Carroll, were quoted as saying that Jamarcus Russell is the type of quarterback Kiffin prefers.
Considering Kiffin himself was quoted as saying he couldn't care less for measurables... but prefers error free QBs who can think on their feet... you're basically telling me that Monte and Pete Carroll either know nothing about Kiffin or they were bull shitting you.



From what I've read and heard from people who have direct contact with Raider scouts... Kiffin did not want to draft Russell whatsoever. A lot of it had to do with the fact that Russell is not the prototype QB for the system Kiffin likes to run on offense and a lot of it had to do with the fact that Kiffin thought there were better options available at the time.

[s.dot88]

i've heard plenty of reporters say that numerous sources say Kiffin preferred Quinn, but didnt mind Russell, as long as it wasnt CJ.

i've also heard things on the radio about Kiffin trying to get Al to work a deal with Savage so the Browns can take Russell, we take Quinn at #3 and get some more picks. But Al asked for too much in return, Browns took Thomas and Quinn dropped to 22 and thats that.

again, nobody really knows, but IMO it makes sense. Hearing Kiffin talk about Russell and then hearing him talk about Quinn, he kind of made Quinn sound like the better prospect. Quinn being in for negotiations also is pretty telling.

[raiderfreak7]

"We wanted to tell him a long time ago that he was our guy," Kiffin said. "You need a guy that the players follow, and the rest of your team follows, and the rest of your city follows, and that's what we've got." - Lane Kiffin

"This is the right guy and this is the right time." - Lane Kiffin

The Raiders, being the Raiders, held to their reputation of double-agent secrecy by refusing to tell anyone outside the in-house hierarchy that Russell was atop their draft board.

"Obviously, I'm very impressed," Kiffin told the Shreveport Times. "We were very impressed. He had a great day. He seems very first class, very easy to get along with. No doubt he was a great leader here. That's why everybody wants him now."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/15/SPGHLOLLMO1.DTL

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/04/29/SPG4FPHO0M1.DTL

*shrug*

[raiderfreak7]

again, nobody really knows, but IMO it makes sense. Hearing Kiffin talk about Russell and then hearing him talk about Quinn, he kind of made Quinn sound like the better prospect. Quinn being in for negotiations also is pretty telling.

So was Russell (and Calvin Johnson).

Just curious, do you have any quotes from Kiffin talking about Quinn? I don't remember anything earth shattering.

[SoCalRaider]

"We wanted to tell him a long time ago that he was our guy," Kiffin said. "You need a guy that the players follow, and the rest of your team follows, and the rest of your city follows, and that's what we've got." - Lane Kiffin

"This is the right guy and this is the right time." - Lane Kiffin



"Obviously, I'm very impressed," Kiffin told the Shreveport Times. "We were very impressed. He had a great day. He seems very first class, very easy to get along with. No doubt he was a great leader here. That's why everybody wants him now."

*shrug*

If you're going to post stuff like that... you really need to provide a link.

[raiderfreak7]

Speak for yourself...:D;)

[hawaiianboy]

I think the second set of sources (led mostly by MacDonald who is a strong Kiffin advocate) put forth a theory that is more wishful thinking than anything.

Could be... I think it would fall under appeasing the masses rather than wishful thinking though... MacDonald is not a Raider fan at all from what I understand, quite the opposite actually, but he's certainly riding a wave of popularity rarely afforded a local writer with Raider fans at the moment... he's the Yin to that jackhole Kawakami's Yang, but MacDonald does have something that these PFW and the like don't have- first person access to players and facility on a pretty daily basis... I put that a rung above the "sources indicate" stuff myself...


I still think all decisions go through Al... to Kiffin's credit, he's done a decent job of convincing Al to get what he wanted from the roster



No doubt in my mind that that Al has to sign off on everything... There's just no way he'd cede absolute control to any head coach... There's a reason we've tended to promote from within or give young upstarts a chance... It allows Al to keep a level of control on things...

(though I still don't think Kiffin wanted to pick Russell).

I wouldn't doubt it... Kiffin had to know that he only had so much time before Al got impatient and expected instant gratification... That was probably the first thing Gruden filled him in on... If I had at best two years to work with, I'd be looking for the shortest way to some dubya's as well... I don't think Kiffin wanting to go away with Russell is so much a reflection on JaMarcus abilities as a player as it is with Kiffin realizing he didn't have the kind of job security necessary to develop Russell... From what I remember Kiffin was more interested in Trent Edwards than he was in Russell or Quinn, probably because of familiarity and experience in a similiar scheme... Just a guess, but with the emphasis his system system seems to put on the split end spot, I think if Kiff had his way he would have gone with Calvin Johnson and Trent Edwards in the draft with Jeff Garcia the short term bridge... I have no problem with the theory that JaMarcus is an Al pick and Kiff is towing the company line in support, as any good soldier would... I also happen to agree with the JaMarcus pick, but I am in a better position to think long term than Kiffin is... FWIW, there's no doubt in my mind that Calvin Johnson would have been the Al "kind of pick" had Russell not declared... I suspect Al was pretty torn up about having to choose between the big freak WR and the big freak QB...



Good point. I'm not necessarily anticipating Ryan would be any improvement over Kiffin... mostly because I don't think it's possible for any coach to win under Al... I just think Ryan getting elevated to head coach is a very distinct possibility... more so than anybody on this board is willing to fathom.

Believe it or not, I also have serious doubts that it's possible for a coach to win consistently under Al unless some changes in our basic approach to building a team are made... One of the reasons I really want Kiffin to succeed is that I think he's just cocky enough to have the stones to stand up to the old man... I think that's the only thing Al truly respects... Madden fought with him all the time, and Gruden certainly stood his ground... The one thing in Kiffin's favor IMO, is I think that Al is just vain enough that he would love to be able to lay claim to finding the next young coaching prodigy as he certainly wasn't shy about laying claim to discovering the young Madden, Shanahan and Gruden after hiring Kiffin...

Nothing against Rob Ryan but another head coaching change would do far more harm than good at this point IMO...

[SoCalRaider]

Speak for yourself...:D;)

Bro... I derive more satisfaction these days in empowering others as much as I can. :D


... I wish I had the time to dig through all the draft stuff from last year... or even post a DVR recording of some of the stuff tossed around on KCAL 9 (local sports station that covers the Raiders)...

... but I'll post a link to this guy Narwocki. He first caught my interest several years back when I copied his mock draft verbatim and won Li'l Al (he was the only guy to call Washington and Routt back to back that year). Ever since, I've kept an eye on his mock drafts and have been blown away as to how accurate the guy is... I know it says nothing about whether he is worth his salt as "a scout"... but it sure speaks volumes of him being in the loop when it comes to what each team is most likely going to do.

Here's his mock (note he's the only guy to nail the Browns' decision to take Joe Thomas over Quinn):
http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Extras/2007/mock042807.htm

Here's his point blank analysis of Al's draft... and I'll take his opinion over the company line shit that gets tossed around on pro days and draft days....


Oakland

Yes, JaMarcus Russell is talented, but in my humble opinion, he will never prove worthy of the first overall pick, and I think it was a big mistake for Al Davis to go against the wishes of his head coach right out of the gate. This draft seemed to fluctuate between Davis and Lane Kiffin making decisions, with TE Zach Miller, DE Quentin Moses and SS Eric Frampton better fitting the mold of high-character Kiffin selections, and WR Johnnie Lee Higgins, RB Michael Bush, CB John Bowie and DE Jay Richardson seeming more like Davis’ “measurable” picks. Davis likely made them all, and like most Davis drafts, this one definitely has boom-or-bust potential. It very well may produce three starters, but with the high bust factor at the No. 1 slot, it is much too risky for my liking. When taking into consideration how they let disgruntled superstar Randy Moss walk all over them, and settled for only a fourth-round pick in return, it makes the addition of Josh McCown and Mike Williams for a fourth-rounder look average, even if Kiffin has a prior relationship with Williams that might enhance his development.

Grade: Questionable

For what it's worth... he's also the only guy to nail the fact that Moses was Kiffin's guy. Again, I'm not posting his shit because of his opinion on who came out on top, I post it because he knows what every team is doing... and you don't get that kind of info without being in balls deep with the scouting departments of a lot of teams....

... and yes it's just one guy's take... but I don't have time to dig everything up............

[s.dot88]

So was Russell (and Calvin Johnson).

Just curious, do you have any quotes from Kiffin talking about Quinn? I don't remember anything earth shattering.

i dont have any quotes, but i do remember from numerous interviews and what not that Kiff would be talking about poise and leadership and how Quinns got, and then say something like "but Jamarcus does as well, he just goes about it a different way".

i remember hearing things like that time and time again, which led me to beleive that Kiffin wanted Quinn, but it seemed like he was tied to russell...



Kiffin never thought Russell was the best player in the draft, didn’t think it when Al Davis selected the big QB No. 1 overall, and sure doesn’t think so now.

Summary: KIFFIN DIDN’T WANT TO DRAFT RUSSELL, which Russell also knows.

I’ve written it before, had it confirmed several times by NFL sources, and I think it’s the biggest part of Russell’s slow unveiling now.

Big monster QB arms don’t impress Kiffin as much as checkdowns, neat little scrambles and leadership skills. Kiffin isn’t a “vertical” game guy, at all. He’s the opposite. He’s a dink-dunk, methodical drive guy.

That’s sort of what he sees in McCown, therefore McCown has been his No. 1 since he walked onto Raider property.

McCown’s not a good or even mediocre NFL QB, but given Kiffin’s options, McCown is the closest thing to what he likes.

Remember, the Raiders brought Brady Quinn in for negotiations when the Raiders were also negotiating with Russell, before the No. 1 selection. (Calvin Johnson was a thought with the pick, too.)

Quinn, if you think about it, is much more comparable to Kiffin’s USC guy, Matt Leinart, than Russell could ever be. You know, the read the defense-calm-leadership QB… Russell isn’t that and may never be that, though I’d love to see if he could develop into that.



http://www.mercextra.com/blogs/kawakami/2007/11/12/why-lane-kiffin-wont-play-jamarcus-russell-for-a-while/

of course, that is Kawakami, so who knows how credible that is

[Stanny]

I still think the Raiders are playing the "smoke and mirrors" game....And I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan still gets canned. I have a feeling that Lane is eyeing someone who is currently in the "playoff" hunt to run his defense. Al is a rules guy not to mention a last minute guy....There are currently two NFL teams right now without NFL head coaches and there are four teams battling it out to make the Superbowl. Al is a big advocate of the "tampering" rules and trys to nail teams all the time for breaking that law, thus not hinting about having an interest in someone who may be in the playoffs.

There is a "big" name out there who was once considered HC material and really kind of got lost in the shuffle....I think he could be huge for our team if we went after him and it would be a promotion from his current position and could possibly put him back in the limelight as a DC....Al and Lane could stick it to the Chargers and offer Mr. Ron Rivera the DC spot. Rivera gets promoted from LB's coach to running a defense, and he goes to a team in which Al likes to promote from within...So if in two years Al doesn't have the patience with Kiff or he can't turn it quickly, Rivera is on staff already. Rivera can run "multiple" defenses, to suit Mr. Al.

He could also go after a Bill Belichick/Big Tuna protege and attempt to rob his staff part deux and go after Pepper Johnson....Johnson has done wonders with that D-Line and Linebacking core over the years.

And there is still the possibiltiy of going after Mr. USC.....

I'm just saying....I wouldn't be surprised if Robby Ryan is still let go after the Senior Bowl.

[S and B Executioner]

I still think the Raiders are playing the "smoke and mirrors" game....And I wouldn't be surprised if Ryan still gets canned. I have a feeling that Lane is eyeing someone who is currently in the "playoff" hunt to run his defense. Al is a rules guy not to mention a last minute guy....There are currently two NFL teams right now without NFL head coaches and there are four teams battling it out to make the Superbowl. Al is a big advocate of the "tampering" rules and trys to nail teams all the time for breaking that law, thus not hinting about having an interest in someone who may be in the playoffs.

There is a "big" name out there who was once considered HC material and really kind of got lost in the shuffle....I think he could be huge for our team if we went after him and it would be a promotion from his current position and could possibly put him back in the limelight as a DC....Al and Lane could stick it to the Chargers and offer Mr. Ron Rivera the DC spot. Rivera gets promoted from LB's coach to running a defense, and he goes to a team in which Al likes to promote from within...So if in two years Al doesn't have the patience with Kiff or he can't turn it quickly, Rivera is on staff already. Rivera can run "multiple" defenses, to suit Mr. Al.

He could also go after a Bill Belichick/Big Tuna protege and attempt to rob his staff part deux and go after Pepper Johnson....Johnson has done wonders with that D-Line and Linebacking core over the years.

And there is still the possibiltiy of going after Mr. USC.....

I'm just saying....I wouldn't be surprised if Robby Ryan is still let go after the Senior Bowl.

Two problems:

A) Al seems to be infatuated with Ryan because he can push him around and get the defense he wants.

B) Al doesn't typically hire defensive types to be his head coaches. Remember, he had a chance to hire Bellichick before he hired Gruden and opted not to. As long as Al rns the show, Offensive guys will always be the HC and Defensive guys, no matter how smart, will never be HC's.

[hawaiianboy]

Rivera would be nice, but he's got the same deal that Raheem Morris has... a contract that doesn't expire til '09... We would have to get permission and a release from AJ Smith...


The delay in making a change, if one was ever really going to be made, could be tied directly into that FEB1 date that coaches contracts expire and to the FEB6 NCAA National Letter of Intent date http://www.jk-forum.com/images/smilies/hmm.gif

[Stanny]

Two problems:

A) Al seems to be infatuated with Ryan because he can push him around and get the defense he wants.

B) Al doesn't typically hire defensive types to be his head coaches. Remember, he had a chance to hire Bellichick before he hired Gruden and opted not to. As long as Al rns the show, Offensive guys will always be the HC and Defensive guys, no matter how smart, will never be HC's.

I would agree with you that he doesn't typically hire from outside with a defensive coach in mind...but remember he did promote from within, a Mr. John Madden who was a defensive coach. I think Rivera if he excelled well on Defense and Kiff didn't he could be that promoted guy as in the case with Mr. Ryan last year as he at least got a shot to interview for the HC job.

You have to remember with old Billy boy that he had stunk up the joints with his Head Coaching material before landing in NE and had read that his interview didn't catch well with Davis....Gruden had been hired after interviewing a 2nd time, during a different year....So for the most part though I do agree with you, that Al has wanted some new "offensive" genius to be the head guy and not a defensive guru.

I guess the main problem why our defenses have had issues and we've never really had that "big name" guy running that side of the show is due to the fact that the "old" curmudeon likes to stick his nose in there and someone seasoned would tell him to "F" off.

[Stanny]

Rivera would be nice, but he's got the same deal that Raheem Morris has... a contract that doesn't expire til '09... We would have to get permission and a release from AJ Smith...


The delay in making a change, if one was ever really going to be made, could be tied directly into that FEB1 date that coaches contracts expire and to the FEB6 NCAA National Letter of Intent date http://www.jk-forum.com/images/smilies/hmm.gif

Oh come on now, you know the Charger family and old Norvel would let him go to their divisional rival just out of having a kind :rotf:heart....

[Rupert]

I guess the main problem why our defenses have had issues and we've never really had that "big name" guy running that side of the show is due to the fact that the "old" curmudeon likes to stick his nose in there and someone seasoned would tell him to "F" off.
The last guy who knew what he was doing on that side of the ball told him just that, John Fox.

[Raider Bill]

Rivera would be sweet.

Ryan is staying IMO.

I nearly slit my wrists when I read that Gruden wanted to hire Jim Johnson back in the day and Al selected Willie Shaw.

Al likes Rob Ryan, so he's not going anywhere


The only glimmer hope I have for Rivera is that the Chargers allowed us to interview James Lofton so maybe they'd let Rivera talk.


It would right the cosmic wrong of not hiring Jim Johnson.

[Stanny]

Rivera would be sweet.

Ryan is staying IMO.

I nearly slit my wrists when I read that Gruden wanted to hire Jim Johnson back in the day and Al selected Willie Shaw.

Al likes Rob Ryan, so he's not going anywhere


The only glimmer hope I have for Rivera is that the Chargers allowed us to interview James Lofton so maybe they'd let Rivera talk.


It would right the cosmic wrong of not hiring Jim Johnson.



My fingers are crossed with yours brother.....:D