Okay. Now I'm worried.

[Crow]

Oakland won today, and I'm eating that up. But now we've fallen out of the top 3 in April. Why does that worry me? Two words:

Al Davis.

The worst GM in football just had a gimme draft pulled out from under him.

In all likelihood, Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey, and Darren McFadden will be off the board when we pick. As draft picks go, I really felt secure in the idea that we'd land one of these 3 and that all 3 were relative sure things. Emphasis on "relative", of course.

Now we're in a position where the upper tier of prospects is gone and we have to rely on Davis to pick a "yes" out of a bucketful of "maybes". That rarely ends well for us.


Under saner circumstances, I would handle this pretty well. I mean, we're still looking at a possible pick of the litter with regards to this year's OT class. Sedrick Ellis should be there. I could handle this.

But...


Al's a dummy, and dummies do dumb sh/t. Al will probably pass on the above players for the talented underachiever Calais Campbell. In Oakland, that type of player is a guaranteed bust.

There's also DeSean Jackson. We need a WR. Jackson is probably at the top of the class. But I'd really hate to burn a top 10 pick on him. That would hurt my heart.

And, since this is Al Davis we're talking about, I have to keep an eye out for a DB. With Stuart Schwiegert on his way out, Kenny Phillips becomes a real possibility. He's a good player, but we already have an undersized safety in Huff. We need a big banger now to take over at SS if we elect to move Huff to free.


There's just so many things that can go wrong now that seemed unlikely before. I'm quite afraid of another Davis Draft setting us back once again.

[CrossBones]

If we draft DeSean "Midget" Jackson with our number one pick it will send me over the edge.

Do not do that Al. Repeat -- do not do that Mr. Davis. (please)

[Rupert]

Remember our discussion about safeties and and corners a while back? Al Davis doesn't really value safeties too highly. I hope this continues to be the case and he tries to get a banger in the 2nd half of the draft to complement Huff.

[BigTron]

Oakland won today, and I'm eating that up. But now we've fallen out of the top 3 in April. Why does that worry me? Two words:

Al Davis.

The worst GM in football just had a gimme draft pulled out from under him.

In all likelihood, Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey, and Darren McFadden will be off the board when we pick. As draft picks go, I really felt secure in the idea that we'd land one of these 3 and that all 3 were relative sure things. Emphasis on "relative", of course.

Now we're in a position where the upper tier of prospects is gone and we have to rely on Davis to pick a "yes" out of a bucketful of "maybes". That rarely ends well for us.


Under saner circumstances, I would handle this pretty well. I mean, we're still looking at a possible pick of the litter with regards to this year's OT class. Sedrick Ellis should be there. I could handle this.

But...


Al's a dummy, and dummies do dumb sh/t. Al will probably pass on the above players for the talented underachiever Calais Campbell. In Oakland, that type of player is a guaranteed bust.

There's also DeSean Jackson. We need a WR. Jackson is probably at the top of the class. But I'd really hate to burn a top 10 pick on him. That would hurt my heart.

And, since this is Al Davis we're talking about, I have to keep an eye out for a DB. With Stuart Schwiegert on his way out, Kenny Phillips becomes a real possibility. He's a good player, but we already have an undersized safety in Huff. We need a big banger now to take over at SS if we elect to move Huff to free.


There's just so many things that can go wrong now that seemed unlikely before. I'm quite afraid of another Davis Draft setting us back once again.

Were good dont fret.

1. Dorsey
2. McFadden
3. C.Long
4. Sedrick Ellis
5. J.Long

Any of thsoe 5 would be great fits. And thats if zero Qb's go int he top 5. I think between Brohm, Woodson and Ryan someone will go top 5.

6. J.Larinitis ( Mispelled it, but this guy is a beast who will shoot up)
7. Gholston ( another draft riser IMO)
8. C.Campell (im calling it, he stays at Miami)
9. Phillips
10. D.Jackson ( also will stay)

I think we will nab two money starters in round 1 & 2. Its early but im excited already with some of the good young guys we will be choosing from.

[Crow]

Remember our discussion about safeties and and corners a while back? Al Davis doesn't really value safeties too highly. I hope this continues to be the case and he tries to get a banger in the 2nd half of the draft to complement Huff.
Huff? Bates?

[Rupert]

Huff? Bates?
Since 1963. Not much of an endorsement of the position.

[Crow]

Point is, he's dropped 1st round picks on safeties a few times, one quite recently. It's far from out of the question that he'd do it again. Fates willing, it won't happen this year. Phillips isn't on the level of guys like Reed or Taylor. Wouldn't be our best pick.

[CrossBones]

A first round safety or WR would be the worst thing for this team with all the problems on the DL and the OL for that matter.

We can find a safety later in the draft that can replace Stu and hopefully allow us to move Michael Huff to FS. The guy has been doing a great job this year but I think we'd really see some play making if we could get Michael to FS. You noticed today that we didn't miss Stu one little bit! ;)

[Crow]

Yeah, and we came up a little under our whiff quota this week because of it. We'll have to make up for it next week against Denver.

[Jack's sore libido]

San Francisco won today.

[Crow]

We're not out of the running yet, eh? 9ers and Jets need to go on a run now. We may score yet.

[Jack's sore libido]

I'm still not convinced those QBs will drop under the targeted 3.

[Crow]

I doubt more than one of them goes top 5. They're not exactly Manning-esque prospects.

[Jack's sore libido]

Neither was Russell, though.

Much depends on bowl performances.

And who's drafting. I have a real hard time imagining Petrino passing on Brohm, for instance.

[Crow]

Neither was Russell, though.
Hence my disdain for that pick.

Much depends on bowl performances.

And who's drafting. I have a real hard time imagining Petrino passing on Brohm, for instance.

I dunno. The connection is there, but it's not as though he wouldn't have a better option. Matt Ryan, maybe.

But, this only matters if they're picking ahead of us.

[Jack's sore libido]

I wasn't a fan, either.

Just saying ... teams go nuts for QBs.

Miami (sucks), St. Louis (fragile) and Atlanta (no Vick) could all be in the market for a QB.

Or Carolina, Kansas City, Baltimore could trade ahead of us to get one. Not that they'd be afraid of us taking one, but they could be afraid of each other.

[Crow]

If Cameron drafts a QB, that's admitting that he shit the bed by passing on Quinn in favor of whoever that dude was he got in Rd2. Doing that, I think, would cost him his job. Just my personal feeling.

[Rupert]

Point is, he's dropped 1st round picks on safeties a few times, one quite recently. It's far from out of the question that he'd do it again. Fates willing, it won't happen this year. Phillips isn't on the level of guys like Reed or Taylor. Wouldn't be our best pick.
I was just pointing out the odds are against it. Huff was taken because of his fantastic athletic ability and that he played safety. I called that pick because Huff is what Al looks for in a player.

[Jack's sore libido]

If Cameron drafts a QB, that's admitting that he shit the bed by passing on Quinn in favor of whoever that dude was he got in Rd2. Doing that, I think, would cost him his job. Just my personal feeling.

If Cameron passes on a QB again after going 1-15 or 0-16, he might lose his job anyway.

[hawaiianboy]

In all likelihood, Chris Long, Glenn Dorsey, and Darren McFadden will be off the board when we pick. As draft picks go, I really felt secure in the idea that we'd land one of these 3 and that all 3 were relative sure things. Emphasis on "relative", of course.


Eh, I wouldn't sweat it... I agree with Jack in that I think when the dust settles, Matt Ryan, who I've been impressed with ends up going #1 whether it's to Miami or someone else via trade... A QB is always going to trump a RB at the top of the draft... The more RB's that declare, the more likely it is that McFadden falls a bit...

IMO, Dorsey may be a guy that slips some just because he's not going to fit in every scheme... Two of the teams that figure to pick in the top 5 play 34 defenses which takes tham out of the equation... I think if you're going to take him in the top five, you have to play him as a three technique guy to get the value...

And nobody is talking about him, probably out of fear that Al will draft him, but Malcom Jenkins has got to figure in that top 5 range should he declare as expected... especially since there's a bunch of teams currently treading water that need a cornerback... He's got prototypical size and he'll test through the roof...

If I had to take a guess right now, I think the top five players off the board would be Matt Ryan, Glenn Dorsey, Chris Long, Jake Long, and Malcom Jenkins... There's also a good chance that Calais Campbell and Brian Brohm also go before McFadden as well... Nothing against McFadden, but most teams will give the big bonus money to the premium positions (QB, OT, CB, DE) figuring a quality back can be had later IMO...



As Jack pointed out, there actually seems to be a bunch of teams that may look to grab a QB which would be to our advantage if we let Kiff trade down and accumulate some picks... IMO, if the 'elite' prospects are gone we should look to trade down and grab one of the LB's... As bad as we are against the run, getting a James Laurinaitis or Dan Conner to set the strongside edge would go a long ways to changing that... As far as question marks go, those two are very clean prospects...

[Rupert]

Do you think Al Davis might be interested in a guy named Dan Conner(s)?

[Crow]

I was shocked when Al drafted a LB (Harris) at the bottom of Rd1. A top 10 pick? I just can't see it. He'd be a nice addition, though.


Regarding Dorsey and the 3-4: I don't think he's what you would consider a "pure" 3-tech. I would liken him more to a Luis Castillo or Ty Warren type. Either of those guys would be stud DTs in a 4-3, but they have the ass to hold up as 3-4 ends while still getting mad pressure on the QB. I think Dorsey has the overall strength necessary to succeed in any scheme, which makes him just as likely to go #1 overall as anyone. More likely than most, I think.

[Swords]

I'm got mad love for Gholston. Go look at the tape and see what he did to the entire Michigan Oline,... including giving J.Long his first sack of the season. He abused him. You put him on one side and Burress on the other. That would be pretty sweet.

Oh yes and I am biased.

IMO no matter how you slice it we need better line play on both sides and a snot drippin' ironhead safety.

[Rupert]

I was shocked when Al drafted a LB (Harris) at the bottom of Rd1. A top 10 pick? I just can't see it. He'd be a nice addition, though.
Don't forget Fredrickson the year after Bates. Back to back "we don't draft that position in the first round" picks.

[Crow]

Also taken in the late 1st.


I don't think there are any top 10 caliber LBs in this class, unless one of the probable 3-4 hybrids blows up during the offseason.

[cyanatic]

Yeah, and we came up a little under our whiff quota this week because of it. We'll have to make up for it next week against Denver."Whiff quota"? It's been so long since I've seen your stump-jumping ass on a board I forgot how to speak "Crow".

By the way, 601-boy, how long before this place bans you? ;)

[Crow]

I figure I'll last until at least April. I hope, anyway.

Nice of you to finally join us.

[BigTron]

Also taken in the late 1st.


I don't think there are any top 10 caliber LBs in this class, unless one of the probable 3-4 hybrids blows up during the offseason.

I agree. But there are sure alot of good LB's to be had tho. Ali Highsmith looked great vs Arkansas too. Dan Connor, Kieth Rivers, James Larunitis (dude from 300)

[hawaiianboy]

I was shocked when Al drafted a LB (Harris) at the bottom of Rd1. A top 10 pick? I just can't see it. He'd be a nice addition, though.

I know... I'm just hoping Kiff has enough juice to massage some trade downs, get into the 10-15 range, save Al some money that he can use toward free agents and still come out with an impact player in RD1... I've probably been reading too many Scott Pioli bed time stories though...


Regarding Dorsey and the 3-4: I don't think he's what you would consider a "pure" 3-tech. I would liken him more to a Luis Castillo or Ty Warren type. Either of those guys would be stud DTs in a 4-3, but they have the ass to hold up as 3-4 ends while still getting mad pressure on the QB. I think Dorsey has the overall strength necessary to succeed in any scheme, which makes him just as likely to go #1 overall as anyone. More likely than most, I think.

I may use him as a shaded nose tackle in the Jamal Williams mold, but I think it's a waste to use him as a 34 end... As quick off the ball as he is, I'd prefer to put him in position to get upfield rather than have him eat blocks... While he hasn't posted the same kind of sack numbers, I think the Jerome Brown comparison that is being thrown around is a pretty good one... Play him at right DT and gap him IMO...



I don't think there are any top 10 caliber LBs in this class, unless one of the probable 3-4 hybrids blows up during the offseason.

I think Laurinaitis has a pretty good shot, especially with New England sitting there... They don't have many immediate needs, but Vrabel, Seau and Bruschi are very near the end... Unless they are scared off by the ghost of Andy Katzemoyer, Laurinaitis is a perfect guy to groom as Bruschi's replacement and definitely a Belichick/Pats kind of player...

Of course, the Pats will probably trade out of the pick and end up with Ray Lewis and 3 future #1's :rolleyes:

"Whiff quota"? It's been so long since I've seen your stump-jumping ass on a board I forgot how to speak "Crow".

By the way, 601-boy, how long before this place bans you?

It's just a matter of time... We 've gone Wily E Coyote and put a dime bag under an empty Acme box propped up with a stick tied to a string.... It shouldn't be long now till the cyber world is safe...

[CrossBones]

Like I mentioned, i'm not sure Al can take another hit of a top 3 player. We need that money to sign some bad as FA's etc.

But you know AL he wants the sizzle with his steak -- in this case a big name top pick. If he has the cheese I guess so but for me I'd trade down and get more football players. We need more taltend players all over the place. Maybe not players ear-marked for the HOF from day one but solid, blue collar football players.

[hawaiianboy]

We're currently sitting at 6th:

1. Miami (0-11) .534

2T. New York Jets (2-9) .523

2T. St. Louis (2-9) .523

4. New England (from San Francisco) (3-8) .466

5. Atlanta (3-8) .506

6. Oakland (3-8) .517

7. Cincinnati (4-7) .472

8T. Kansas City (4-7) .500

8T. Baltimore (4-7) .500

10. Carolina (4-7) .540

[BigTron]

Our remaining schedule is brutal. The teams ahead of us play some softer games IMO. Just looking at the schedule's and not the %

[Crow]

We're currently sitting at 6th:

1. Miami (0-11) .534 Chris Long

2T. New York Jets (2-9) .523 Glenn Dorsey

2T. St. Louis (2-9) .523 Jake Long/Ryan Clady

4. New England (from San Francisco) (3-8) .466 Darren McFadden

5. Atlanta (3-8) .506 Matt Ryan/Brian Brohm

6. Oakland (3-8) .517 Sedrick Ellis

7. Cincinnati (4-7) .472

8T. Kansas City (4-7) .500

8T. Baltimore (4-7) .500

10. Carolina (4-7) .540

I can live with that.

[Crow]

Our remaining schedule is brutal. The teams ahead of us play some softer games IMO. Just looking at the schedule's and not the %

If the teams on our schedule maintain their high winning %, we should be gold in the tiebreaker category.

[007]

I fully assume we'll end up in the five range, staring just out of all the top tier guys (Long, McFadden, Dorsey etc.)

[RNorris]

Really sucks that new England lost a first round pick and not that one ......

[Jack's sore libido]

Man, if New England winds up with McFadden ...

[Crow]

I've been thinking the same thing. Some punishment, eh?

[Crow]

By the way, 601-boy, how long before this place bans you? ;)

Does getting banned from NFL Draft Countdown count?

[hawaiianboy]

Does getting banned from NFL Draft Countdown count?

Just out of curiousity, just how does one go about being banned from his own site to begin with?


My guess:

1. Miami (0-11) .534: Jake Long

2T. New York Jets (2-9) .523: Chris Long

2T. St. Louis (2-9) .523: Glenn Dorsey

4. New England (from San Francisco) (3-8) .466: James Laurinaitis

5. Atlanta (3-8) .506: Matt Ryan

6. Oakland (3-8) .517: Darren McFadden

7. Cincinnati (4-7) .472: Sedrick Ellis

8T. Kansas City (4-7) .500: Malcom Jenkins

8T. Baltimore (4-7) .500: Brian Brohm

10. Carolina (4-7) .540:Andre Woodson

[Crow]

Well, when you have that many chefs in the same kitchen, someone is bound to wind up with a wooden spoon up his ass.

NFLDC just all of a sudden started getting silly with their moderation. I got an infraction for circumventing the profanity censor. I still don't know what the purpose of that nonsense is.


And if McFadden falls all the way to 6, something must be wrong.

[CrossBones]

Well, when you have that many chefs in the same kitchen, someone is bound to wind up with a wooden spoon up his ass.

NFLDC just all of a sudden started getting silly with their moderation. I got an infraction for circumventing the profanity censor. I still don't know what the purpose of that nonsense is.


And if McFadden falls all the way to 6, something must be wrong.The "Infraction System" (:rolleyes:)...silliest thing vB ever came up with. That's for Admins who have an ego the size of Jerry Jones. I've been to sites, mostly non-sports, where it's like walking on egg shells; where Admins and Mods roam the joint just to throw around their "internet muscle". Really fun places to visit. :shakehead:

HBoy gets an "infraction" for being a McFadden homer. I don't think he's falling to #6.

[Crow]

I think I ended up with 3 infractions at DC before getting the temp-ban. I missed the memo that stated "Thou shalt not question decisions made by moderators."

Fags.

[Jack's sore libido]

My guess:

1. Miami (0-11) .534: Andre Woodson

2T. New York Jets (2-9) .523: Darren McFadden

2T. St. Louis (2-9) .523: Jake Long

4. Baltimore (from New England via San Francisco) (3-8) .466: Matt Ryan

5. Atlanta (3-8) .506: Brian Brohm

6. Oakland (3-8) .517: Chris Long

7. Cincinnati (4-7) .472: Glenn Dorsey

8T. Kansas City (4-7) .500: DeSean Jackson

8T. New England (4-7) .500: Malcolm Jenkins

10. Carolina (4-7) .540:Sedrick Ellis

[BigTron]

1. Miami (0-11) .534: Matt Ryan

2. New York Jets (2-9) .523: Glenn Dorsey

2. St. Louis (2-9) .523: C.Long

4. New England (3-8) .466: J.Long

5. Atlanta (3-8) .506: Brian Brohm

6. Oakland (3-8) .517: D.McFadden

7. Cincinnati (4-7) .472: Sedrick Ellis

8. Kansas City (4-7) .500: D.Jackson

9 . Baltimore (4-7) .500: Andre Woodson

10. Carolina (4-7) .540: James Larunitis ( whatever his name is)

[hawaiianboy]

HBoy gets an "infraction" for being a McFadden homer. I don't think he's falling to #6.

Hey, keep your infraction in your pants Don Vito... That's what most everybody said about Adrian Peterson, no?...

Miami- spent a top 5 already on Ronnie Brown
Jets just traded a 2nd round pick for Thomas Jones
Rams- Steven Jackson
New England- Maroney... McFadden is a possibility here, burt BB is a defensive meat and potatoes guy by heart
Falcons- Possible, but I think they'll try and find a QB to build around after the Vick PR nightmare, then follow up with a big grinder type RB...

I'm actually going to homer for Long and Lauranaitis until Al rips the dream out from under me again...

Remember when Romo used to stack the run, cover Shannon Sharp 30 yards down the field and occasionally blitz off the edge?... I want me one of those again.... Lauranaitis would give us one and allow us to let Huff roam... I prefer to get him in a trade down, but I'd be surprised if he made it past Cincy at 7considering the problems they've had at LB...

[Crow]

I dunno if Lil Animal is a good fit at SAM. The major knock on him is his tendency to get tied up with blockers. Kept clean, he's a stud...kinda like a healthy Urlacher/Ray Ray type.

If we're serious about upgrading our SAM, a guy like Shawne Crable in Rd2 or an Ezra Butler/Beau Bell later on would be the way I'd go. Maybe even Philip Wheeler if he's still around.

[Jack's sore libido]

I'm all about Beau Bell, as you all know.

But Shawne Crable is a 15-yard penalty waiting to happen. Every Michigan game I watch he makes some boneheaded play.

[CrossBones]

But Shawne Crable is a 15-yard penalty waiting to happen. Every Michigan game I watch he makes some boneheaded play.Then he'll fit right in with the Raiders. He'll be our pick almost for sure. :p

[BigTron]

Then he'll fit right in with the Raiders. He'll be our pick almost for sure. :p

He is a physical specimen! Big fast and not that productive!

[Crow]

Sounds like the guy to me.

[s.dot88]

crable is more of a 3-4 guy, IMO

more of a block shedding pusuit, than a change of direction/speed pursuit

from what i have seen, he isnt awesome in coverage which is going to be a need when Huff moves to FS

a guy i do like is Adibi from Va Tech, even tho he seems like a lock to be a weakside backer

howard, adibi and morrison would easily give us the most athletic and probably the fastest LBing corps in all of football

[RaiderIVlife]

I dunno, unless we get a Kenny Easley, Ronnie Lott, Sean Taylor type guy, I am dead against expending a Day-1 pick on a safety. We have much bigger needs at DE, DT, OT, C, WR and even LB'er IMO.

Improve the line and we'll manage with Eugene/TBD at Safety IMO.

[Jack's sore libido]

a guy i do like is Adibi from Va Tech, even tho he seems like a lock to be a weakside backer

I like Adibi, but he might not make it to our second-rounder.

Speedy LBs who should include Beau Bell and my nasty boy, Geno Hayes.

[s.dot88]

i like Geno Hayes, but i think he is going end up being a tweener-SS

much like Mike Boulware was

i also like Bell

he seems like a real physical specimen who could catch some serious hype after workouts

[Jack's sore libido]

Hayes has the frame to add 10-15 pounds. I think that would be an easier transition for him that moving to safety.

Boulware was practically a safety already in college, and he hasn't been able to make the move successfully. Hayes is good in coverage, but not the way Boulware was. Geno floats back and gets into passing lanes. Boulware ran man-for-man with halfbacks, tight ends and even receivers.

[s.dot88]

i havent seen a whole lot of Hayes, but you could tell from looking at him that the guy could add 10lbs of muscle quite easily

but even with that, at 225-230, hes still a little too small to play SLB, and i dont think he is good enough to move Howard out of that WLB spot

[BigTron]

Xavier Adibi is the man. I also still like Q.Groves. He can flat out get after QB's.

[Crow]

I'm not convinced a move to FS is in Huff's future. It may well be his best position, other than maybe CB. But as it stands, he's entirely too valuable as a TE blanket. That being the case, adding a SAM who does his best work coming forward shouldn't hurt us much. Stack, shed, tackle, dance. Sick 'em.

[Freakshow]

I'm not convinced a move to FS is in Huff's future. It may well be his best position, other than maybe CB. But as it stands, he's entirely too valuable as a TE blanket. That being the case, adding a SAM who does his best work coming forward shouldn't hurt us much. Stack, shed, tackle, dance. Sick 'em.

totally agree. remember, huff was a SS in college and now his first two seasons as a pro so it's likely been since High School (or even never) that Huff has played FS. It's premature and possibly a bit of a reach to consider that his best position.

Robert Thomas is solid, if not unspactular at the SAM but I agree that an upgrade is in order. Chris Long at DE in the 1st, some big meat in the middle like Haynesworth and another big, fast backer in the 2nd would spell some serious relief for Huff/Euguene/TBA. Take a bunch of o-line on day 2 and hope one or two stick - that seems like a good plan to me!

[Crow]

Denver's had a lot of luck finding day 2 guys they can groom and eventually start on their line. No reason, other than Al, to expect that we couldn't do the same. Finding somebody to knuckle up these big ass NTs sure would be nifty.