Post Game Thread....

[S and B Executioner]

My thoughts after this bull shitt!!


1) Kiff is way to conservative in the first half. He has cost us the 1st two games much in the way Dan Reeves was to conservative when he was Denvers coach.

2) McClown SUCKS!! And Kiff is too loyal to help himself. Kiff has no respect from me until he sits this waste of roster space.

3) Rob Ryan is not Buddy!! This defense is to over hyped on running plays and sucks on passing plays.

4) I doubt we win at all this season.

5) No positives from this, at all!!

[Raiders_Rock]

i'm fucking pissed as hell

fuck the Donkos and all their fans

[MasterRaider]

That shit makes me sooooo damn mad its ridiculous....lost a little $10 bet with a guy at work...my Raiders lose & it all feels cheap to me cause we hit that first damn FG & I thought it was over! I HATE the Donkies more then ANY team in football...We SHOULD have won that game...thats a heart breaker no doubt...

One more thing...McCown has his little bright spots...but the guy just doesnt have IT...If we had Russell in this situation I feel we would of won that game...too bad its a year to early for Russell :(

[RenoRaider]

If I'm playing the Raider's I just come out in spread offense the whole freaking game..We can't generate a decent pass rush.. Once you get past Aso and Wash we have no depth at CB.

I was worried coming into the season about how we would stop the run game with the likes of Tomlinson and Johnson and Dunver and their cut blocking scheme...Now...I just wish they'd run at us all day :(

[S and B Executioner]

That shit makes me sooooo damn mad its ridiculous....lost a little $10 bet with a guy at work...my Raiders lose & it all feels cheap to me cause we hit that first damn FG & I thought it was over! I HATE the Donkies more then ANY team in football...We SHOULD have won that game...thats a heart breaker no doubt...

One more thing...McCown has his little bright spots...but the guy just doesnt have IT...If we had Russell in this situation I feel we would of won that game...too bad its a year to early for Russell :(


Cullpepper would have tossed the rock for 250 yards, 2 TD's and we aren't even having this conversation right now.

[MasterRaider]

Cullpepper would have tossed the rock for 250 yards, 2 TD's and we aren't even having this conversation right now.

I feel the EXACT same way...TRUST ME...but I just dont see Kiffin EVER benching McCown...it just doesnt seem like its gonna happen to me...he would rather lose every game with McCown in then switch him out for Culpepper...makes no sense to me...none at all...

[poptart]

I'm pretty proud of the team.
More heart from a Raider team than I've seen in a few yrs.
Running game and O-line is coming together.

The defense needs to generate more pressure.
Gannon washed McCown's balls pretty good, but Culpepper needs to start v. Cleveland.
We're not getting enough from the passing game, period.

Close division game, on the road, you've simply got to make the key plays and seize the opportunity to WIN it when it's in front of you -- Jankowski??

This game hurt.

[RaiderIVlife]

I'm pretty proud of the team.
More heart from a Raider team than I've seen in a few yrs.
Running game and O-line is coming together.

The defense needs to generate more pressure.
Gannon washed McCown's balls pretty good, but Culpepper needs to start v. Cleveland.
We're not getting enough from the passing game, period.

Close division game, on the road, you've simply got to make the key plays and seize the opportunity to WIN it when it's in front of you -- Jankowski??

This game hurt.

I feel like someone ripped my heart out, but overall, I agree with the broader points of this post. This team has HEART, if not talent.

FUCK DENVER. Savor the flavor, because things change in the very near future....

[S and B Executioner]

I feel the EXACT same way...TRUST ME...but I just dont see Kiffin EVER benching McCown...it just doesnt seem like its gonna happen to me...he would rather lose every game with McCown in then switch him out for Culpepper...makes no sense to me...none at all...

Loyalty like that gets you killed. Al has been that way for years and now kff is following the mold. This is gonna be a long, long year...........

[Abelardo]

They put up a fight. The defence didn't look good, but they scored twice (TD and SAFETY) and kept the score in 20 points through 4 qtrs.

The offence failed again. Specially Mclown, 8 of 16 for 73 yards, 1 TD 3 INT. Pretty much sucks. Jordan had his best day here IMHO. Obviously Kiffin has a lot to learn about planning a game, he is too conservative not because it's a strategy, because he is scared. He is afraid of losing the ball, which in the end, his boy delivers gently to the other team.

This team is set for the future. But in the meantime, McClown and Jano are our liability. Kiffin has a lot to learn. He's probably behind Russell in terms of learning the pro stuff. So don't worry watching Jamarcus in the bench, its OK. Let Kiffin finds his way first.

[RaiderIVlife]

The Raider competed HARD today. That did not surpirse me, but I'm concerned about the possible "here we go again" impact on this team. Do they keep fighting? That is the real question for me, this team will be lucky to win 7 games this year IMO, but we MUST find a way to compete each week.

I hope Bush & Russell see PT this year and oh BTW, get Higgins some real PT at WR, Curry & Porter aren't quick enough as a starting tandem IMO.

[Abelardo]

As soon as the W column becomes irrelevant we should some playing time from our future projected starters Russell and Bush. Fargas is a jinx.

As for Porter and Curry, how can we expect good catches with those sorry QBs they've had? (including las and current year). Walter and Culpepper coudlva done better today.

They're fighting hard, but if you put your best, and it is not enough, then something is wrong. Winning has to do with other things, cos almost every team fights hard.

[GRIM]

McCown came out and threw two INT's early on. We cannot expect to win VS Denver, KC, or SD like that at their house. This is the second week he's sucked in the first half and then played well enough in the second half to get us close to a win.

We cannot expect Jano to hit from that far out. We should have enough talent at QB to get us closer for the Kicker to hit. Jano was on, but the Zebra's robbed us again. If I'm a Zebra, I'm all over not giving Shanny the win. He should have been denied that time out.

McCown is not sustaining drives either. We're stalling out. It's bad. We're improved, yes, but we're still in trouble. Mc Cown won't give us the strength we need to win.

The most impressive players to me were the safeties. They really stepped up. Anyway, tough loss. Similar to the snow job.

[Freakshow]

The most impressive players to me were the safeties. They really stepped up.

are you being serious? huff made about one play all day in run support and schweigart, well, looked about as bad as I've ever seen him look. missed tackle after missed tackle - a total joke imo. poor angles, two steps late (always) and doesn't deliver a blow or wrap up. aside from not getting burned deep he was absolutely pathetic.

[RaiderIVlife]

are you being serious? huff made about one play all day in run support and schweigart, well, looked about as bad as I've ever seen him look. missed tackle after missed tackle - a total joke imo. poor angles, two steps late (always) and doesn't deliver a blow or wrap up. aside from not getting burned deep he was absolutely pathetic.

Agreed. Even the most ardent SS supporter would have to admit that he sucked ass today. Terrible & embarrasing. Like I said, did this team use to have Atkinson, Tatem, Eddie Anderson & Van McKelroy? Really?

[BigTron]

Huff played well... STu is a fucking joke. That T.Henry stiff arm was sad and pathetic. Im done with Stu. He cannot physically man up.

[raiderfreak7]

Huff may have played his best game as a Raider. He was all over the place and was finally wrapping up good. Stu is fucking terrible in every aspect of his game.

[RaiderIVlife]

I'd also like to thank Barry Sims for self destructing at the most esquisite of times. False start & holding in that OT drive.

[RaiderIVlife]

Huff may have played his best game as a Raider. He was all over the place and was finally wrapping up good. Stu is fucking terrible in every aspect of his game.

Exactly right. Although Huff has not made an "explosion" plays ala Ed Reed (yet), he is still a more "safe & reliable" player than Schwiegert. That dude blows.

I'd start BJ Ward & Dante Culpepper (shit maybe even Andrew Walter) next week and not even bat an eye.

[RaiderDestiny]

We cannot expect Jano to hit from that far out.

BS. That is why we wasted a 1st round pick on this A-Hole. I expect him to hit from 60. All that I heard for years was that he has a cannon for a leg and he cannot even get touchbacks on kickoffs consistently. The sad part is that he does not care. He expends no extra effort to improve himself. He has become what we drafted him to replace and that is unacceptable.

[BigTron]

I'd also like to thank Barry Sims for self destructing at the most esquisite of times. False start & holding in that OT drive.

He is a captain.....

[Abelardo]

Huff is average. Schweigert is below average. What makes the secondary goos is the corners. Huff is a high pick. Stu - pid is a second rounder. Huff isn't fulfilling expectations as a highly regarded pick.


The Raiders should have a stellar squadron after so many good picks after the SB collapse. We even had the extra picks fron Grudens deal (two firsts, and two seconds). We've only got people like these gentlemen. Were still paying for this kind of errors.

[BigTron]

Huff is average. Schweigert is below average. What makes the secondary goos is the corners. Huff is a high pick. Stu - pid is a second rounder. Huff isn't fulfilling expectations as a highly regarded pick.


The Raiders should have a stellar squadron after so many good picks after the SB collapse. We even had the extra picks fron Grudens deal (two firsts, and two seconds). We've only got people like these gentlemen. Were still paying for this kind of errors.

Huff = Solid in coverage 96% of the time. Young and in year two.

Stu = A veteran who is being grouped with a guy in year two. Stu has played enough for us to realize he isnt an impact player. That stiff arm he took was filthy.... He is a nice guy and a good back-up ST player.

[007]

Shitlist:

Schweigert. I counted 4 missed tackles, including two critical ones late. He also blew in coverage...

Jano. Nothing to be said here...Cut his ass.

McCown. Dude is a gritty guy, but a good backup at best. Like Damon Huard.

The few positives:

Zach Miller's blocking impresses me more than his catching skills...Dude is a solid blocker out there. Now if Kiffin could incorporate more passes DOWNFIELD to him, we'd be in business.

Gallery has found a home at guard. Seriously, if you think back to most of LJ's best runs, they were all right over top of Gallery with Griffin leading the way. He is playing well inside, IMO.

Lechler was awesome.

We suck.

[007]

Two things hurting our secondary:

1) No pass rush. Burgess and Sapp need to get going...Soon.

2) The safeties. Sadly I think that our corners are being unfairly picked on because of how poor the safety play has been.

Stu is playing bad against the pass, and worse against the run...Picture what we would look like with Huff at FS and Darius smashing guys at SS.

Huff is also well below expectations, and is playing as pedestrian as a SS can. He is a top ten pick, who is invisible for most the game. Dissapointing.

I look silly for supporting Routt. Dude seems a step slow every play, and is being abused.

Washington isnt playing as good as he can, and even think Aso is well below his performance last year, although he has been solid.

So much for a top ten defence.

[TheNextStep]

1. Where the fuck is our pass rush?

2. Damn, we've got some good linebackers.

3. LaMont may end up being owed an apology by a lot of people (including me) by year's end.

4. I like McKown's heart. I really do... but this is 5 picks in two games.

5. Worst thing about it was the play BEFORE the third pick at the end of the game. Porter went deep and had a step and McKown just couldn't put the ball on the money. So... they try it again, only this time the Broncos have good coverage and Porter doesn't have a chance.

6. Too many penalties.

7. Offensively, you can see that we're improved from last year... but not nearly enough.

8. Defensively, we're playing average at best. I'll trumpet those guys as being fantastic last year... but that's the past. Here in the present, they've got a ways to go.

[Raidermania12]

5. Worst thing about it was the play BEFORE the third pick at the end of the game. Porter went deep and had a step and McKown just couldn't put the ball on the money. So... they try it again, only this time the Broncos have good coverage and Porter doesn't have a chance.
.

I beg to differ, he had one step instead 10 like the first throw on Bly, but still enough space to be thrown to if he puts it on proper stride. Instead its slightly under thrown and inside perfectly for Bly. IMO he missed Porter twice. The first time hurts more because the burnage was so hardcore and Porter was open for days.

[GRIM]

BS. That is why we wasted a 1st round pick on this A-Hole. I expect him to hit from 60. All that I heard for years was that he has a cannon for a leg and he cannot even get touchbacks on kickoffs consistently. The sad part is that he does not care. He expends no extra effort to improve himself. He has become what we drafted him to replace and that is unacceptable.


You're full of shit. You can't possibly expect the guy to hit from that far out and be nails. Get his ass closer if you want fuching field goals. Personally, we're losing because we're not getting fuching TD's! That's the problem. We're getting our asses kicked with McCown and his fuching int's.

Blame the one that matters, not the kicker.

[TheNextStep]

Sorry, GRIM, but when Janikowski is sitting with 5 attempts and 1 made FG, he's got to suck up his share of the blame because 4 missed FGs = 12 points. You can't say that 12 points doesn't matter...

I say that not to deflect criticism from other cats... I'm just saying that there's no way you can look at the first two games and think Janikowski is bullet proof.

[Raidermania12]

Jano takes plenty of blame. But most kickers miss on bad snaps from that far out. They gotta get that ball out right. With that said his job is the make it under all scenarios. But when shit gets in your head, even adam vinateri will miss it like he did today. That is a reality. But one thing I hate is that we dont get rid on that dirt. Its never helped jano or any raider ever. JMHO though.

[TheNextStep]

Nothing we can do about that dirt. We either get our own stadium in Oakland (yeah, right) or pray that the A's suck and are eliminated early.

My completely in hind-sight question - After Shanahan called that timeout and it turned out that we hadn't kicked the game winning field goal, why didn't Kiff call a timeout as well to get everyone calmed down and centered again?

[Raidermania12]

Rookie HC. Good and bad to it.

Oh yea A's please move to sacramento or something.

[Raidermania12]

I know it sounds silly. But under normal conditions where everybody does their job, I have faith in Jano to make it in the clutch. But when they arent, close your eyes and make sure you didnt fuck up your karma this week..

[Byron2112]

tion - After Shanahan called that timeout and it turned out that we hadn't kicked the game winning field goal, why didn't Kiff call a timeout as well to get everyone calmed down and centered again?

I was wondering that during the game too... actually I was wondering why he didn't "ice" Elam on his attempt... sure it was about 15 yards, but turnabout is fair play no?

[Raidermania12]

Kiff has to learn to hate the AFC West. When he learns that, he'll get what to do in those situations.

[gst8]

I'd also like to thank Barry Sims for self destructing at the most esquisite of times. False start & holding in that OT drive.

Lined up against Simeon Rice... Gannon calling the game...

Sims was doomed from the start.

[Jack's sore libido]

I'm amazed how anyone could say they have no respect for Kiffin after watching the Raiders last year.

Yeah, 0-2 is 0-2. But it's not the same kind of 0-2.

[Jack's sore libido]

I beg to differ, he had one step instead 10 like the first throw on Bly, but still enough space to be thrown to if he puts it on proper stride. Instead its slightly under thrown and inside perfectly for Bly. IMO he missed Porter twice. The first time hurts more because the burnage was so hardcore and Porter was open for days.

I agree with that.

I thought Porter had Bly beaten twice.

But Porter sure as schit didn't do anything to help McCown the second time, either.

[SoCalRaider]

But Porter sure as schit didn't do anything to help McCown the second time, either.

Do you blame him? Did you see all our receivers' body language today? How many times did you see the tacher's pet get thrown to the turf without a single Raider coming over to give him a hand.

None of those guys believe in the teacher's pet. It's only a matter of time till those guys turn on ESPN and see their former teammate tearing up the NFL now that he has a real QB to play catch with. No question, the teacher's pet has lost the respect of the lockerroom... Just wonder how much longer Kiffin's going to ignore it.

[RaiderIVlife]

Hard to say since I wasn't at the game and the camera angles don't show the whole field, but Gannon kept saying that the WR's, for the most part, weren't getting any separation.

I think Higgins needs to play more.

[hawaiianboy]

* As disgusted as I was by McCown's performance at QB, I was more embarrassed by Schweigert's... of all the spares we've lined up back there over the years, I have never seen someone so averse to contact... I wouldn't even show up to the film session if I were him because the fellas are going to look at that and think "What a fugging pussy"... Wouldn't bother me one bit if we left that soft fug in Denver... Time to give BJ Ward a hard look...

* Aside for giving Gannon someone to creepily live vicariously through, I couldn't understand the decision not to make a QB switch at halftime... McCown was obviously not healthy and obviously really struggling... 3 more picks and two more fumbles today... Totally unacceptable... I could see riding it out with him if the "Just get us to the bye week till JaMarcus is ready' plan were still in effect, but that went to crap three months ago... Not to mention there's a $3 million viable alternative sitting on the sidelines ...

It almost feels like the new plan is "Just get us to the bye week while we get Culpepper fully healthy and acclimated with the playbook"... Only thing I can think of...

I watched the Texans a bit, and what Kubiak is running there schemewise is awfully similar to what we're trying to do here... The biggest difference is that Matt Schaub is getting the ball accurately to the second and third levels and McCown isn't... Jerry Porter has been open down the field two weeks running and we just haven't been able to get him the ball there the way Schauby is getting it to Andre Johnson... I can really see why we had some interest in trading for Schaub...

* It also appeared that Kiff wasn't too happy with Curry a couple of times out there... My guess is that Curry wasn't making the proper adjustments on some read routes...

* Once I saw we had to line up and kick the field goal again, I KNEW Jano was going to miss... Didn't even have to watch the kick... I think a kicker should be judged by how much confidence you have in him in pressure situations, and I have absolutely no confidence in him... Don't know if I ever did for that matter...

* I think we all knew that Denver was going to drive the ball down the field on us after the miss... Not only was there an obvius deflationary reaction to the miss, but for all the accolades, just like in the KC game last year, this defense just can't seem to make a stop when it absolutely has to...

* Barry Sims was reacting more to the ghost of Simeon Rice past than the guy lined up across him... Rice looked pretty average out there... If Sims mentally played him as just another guy, he would have had very little problems....

* It seems like Rob Ryan may have spent the offseason reading too much of his own press clippings... I think he's falllen way too much love with that big nickel... Teams have had a good look at the coverage package on film and have founds ways to exploit it... and what's the aversion to blitzing exactly?... I watched the Ravens and even with superior talent along their D-line, they send guys from a bunch of different angles... For as hard as they are trying, teams are doubling Burgess and Sapp for the most part... We need to start giving the O-linemen and QB more things to think about ... Why not send Huff more often or bring Nnamdi off the corner like we used to with Wood?... We're also not hearing Sands name being called a whole lot out there... It's looking like Gerrard Warren may eclipse him as the starter before long...

* Stanford Routt seems to be a pretty good cover guy when he can line up at a traditional corner spot, not so much when having to play inside on the slot... Why don't we play the quicker Fabs on the slot on quick guys like Furrey and Stockley with Routt outside in nickle situations?...

* This reminds me a lot of Gru's first year and a half here when we would find ways to lose games late... We need to learn how to win and more important, come in expecting to win... I can't shake the felling that we could be 2-0 right now, but as compared to the past 4 years, you really can't fault the effort level Kiff has got them playing at... I think we're on the right track here...


Played well:

* Thomas Howard- After playing a little tentative early, he started to look like Willie T out there... I really wish we'd use his speed coming off the edge more....

* Kirk Morrison- Doesn't have the benefit of having the DT's tie up the blockers, but he is making a lot of plays out there... I would love to see what he could do if we had DT's that kept him clean and set him up the way the Ravens do Ray Ray...

* Sam Williams- He played big on the edge against the run... I hate that we're yanking him more than half the time... He was very adept at playing the passing lanes in college and gives us a viable alternative to the big nickel...

* Jay Richardson- Played very stout and is starting to collapse pockets on a regular basis...

* Robert Gallery- I think he's found a home... He's back to being an aggressive player and playing confident again...

* Lamont Jordan- It still worries me that he looks absolutely gassed if you give him the rock a couple time in a row, but you can't argue with results... I'm looking forward to seeing Rhodes out there as a compliment to him...


We've got two winnable games coming up before the bye and then a trip to San Diego... We've blown golden chances the first two weeks, so hopefully we get the QB stuff straightened out and Ryan starts living up to the hype... Hopefully we can get Pepper in there and establish a passing rhythm to go along with the ground game and have Rob start channeling some of Rex's game plans ...

While it's been frustrating and disappointing so far, I think there is a lot to be encouraged with long term...

[poptart]

Great post, hb.

Right on the money on every point.

I think Kiffin has done a GREAT job since taking over as HC.
However, ..... if Culpepper doesn't get the start v. Cleveland I'll level my first major dose of criticism his way.

QB was our most glaring weak link on Sunday.

[BigPoppaPump]

We can rip apart all we want on this game, but to me it starts with Jano.

Simply put, he hits the kick and we win. No need to tear apart the team. Ends the losing streak and we win our first division game since my baby was born.




Josh has to be benched. I will not get behind this team if he is the QB and Kiff (as alluded to earlier in this thread) really could lose the team if DC doesn't start.

If we start DC and win the next two.....we go into the bye at .500 and also imo with a really good attitude. As weak as the AFC West looks this year and with how much better we have looked.....anything is possible. I know I am crazy for typing this, but Kiff is slowly making me believe once again.

[Limee]

What an absolutely soul destroying end to a crap weekend of sport.

If McCown is going to be the QB then he cannot afford to be turning the ball over. I can understand picking him to start based on the thinking that our defense was going to be better than it has shown so far and having him manage the game and not make mistakes. He has not done that job so far and if he is going to make mistakes and not even the gimme throws like the one to Porter then we would be better off going with Culpepper. He also has a tendency to commit turnovers, but he is also capable of making plays that McCown cannot.

Once again Janikowski had an opportunity to come through and failed. He has started the season 1 for 5 in FG attempts after being at the bottom in FG accuracy last year. I really don't have anything left to say about him at this point.

I really like for the second week in a row that we brought ourselves back into the game when it looked like we were done. We need to find a way to make a better start so we don't keep winding up in the same position. I thought it was perfect timing on the call for the Porter TD. I admit that Jordan had a good game, but with his lack of stamina we really need that second option, Fargas had one run in particular where there was a huge cutback lane that he just didn't see. I think there were some real positives from the game, but we need to find a way to close out a game and get a win next week.

[Madturk]

Good stuff HB.

Stu should take himself out of the lineup after that performance:shakehead:

Kiff's game planning was very vanilla in the first half but he does show the ability to make adjustments at halftime. I also like the fact that we stayed with the game plan to run the ball the entire game. Can't wait to get Rhodes back though, Fargas was just brutal. Real ballsy call on that onsides kick. We can't spot teams 17-20 points every week though and expect to come back. I would have liked to seen us try one shot downfield though after LJ's long run put us in FG range, especially with Jano's penchant for missing fg's.

You hit it right on the head with McCown, he can't zip the ball accurately into the second and third levels. Even on the long TD, he underthrew the ball to a wide open Porter. Those 5 yard darts are just getting painful to watch. We've got to find a way to get Madsen and Higgins more involved in the offense too.
He should be on a short leash this week with his penchant for turning the ball over.

Defensively, the lack of a pass rush is exposing our secondary and the tackling is just pitiful. Just don't understand RR's reluctance to bring the heat, especially with the speed we have at LB. I actually thought Huff had one of his better games as a Raider yesterday. Did a pretty decent job in run support with all things being considered. Howard was flying all over the place, probably our best defensive player. Can someone tell Terd Sands that the season has begun? Tyler Brayton is a huge waste of a roster spot. Talk about a guy who has zero impact on a game. Tommie Kelly has been disappointing to say the least. With teams doubling Burgess, I thought that this would really open things up for him. We are getting absolutely no pressure from the edge.

Talk about your emotional highs and lows yesterday after thinking we went into Denver and stole one. :shakehead:

[Raidermania12]

imo it'll take more than this to get Josh benched. The qb competition never existed and the job belonged to him from the jump imo. Its his to lose. and it'll take alot to lose it. We may win the next game with him in there, which would keep the job in his possession going into week 7 imo. I'm sure DC feels hosed, but to be fair i said he's not the most brain savvy qb when it comes to complicated schemes. Maybe thats coming back to haunt him with Kiffin being a heavy stickler about it.

[Raidermania12]

I may catch flack for this, but scapegoating Schweigert is a lil too extreme. It seems every can name every tackle he missed while overlooking that he made 9 tackles and was in on countless other plays. That doesn't make up for anything he fucked up, but again the calling for his head over anyone else is extreme. I thought he did do a better job of getting to the ball carriers this game that last, with very mixed results. Also Huff still has been far worse in coverage than Schweigert so far. I dont think I'm calling for bj ward just yet, though i'm glad we didnt use hiriam eugene.

[jatfly]

Raiders DE Derrick Burgess missed the last few series of Sunday's loss with an apparent calf injury.

Burgess had an ice bag on the calf. Since the game was in overtime while Burgess was out, the injury could be serious. The Raiders have generated a weak pass rush with him in games of late, but don't have a viable alternative

[Raidermania12]

Raiders DE Derrick Burgess missed the last few series of Sunday's loss with an apparent calf injury.

Burgess had an ice bag on the calf. Since the game was in overtime while Burgess was out, the injury could be serious. The Raiders have generated a weak pass rush with him in games of late, but don't have a viable alternative

~cough~moses~cough~

[R4Life]

8 completions for 73 yards and 3 picks.
Makes me sick.

[Jack's sore libido]

Do you blame him?

Yes. Yes, I do.

[CrossBones]

Not sorry I missed that debacle.

Another long year.

Hey, ``...the defense isn't what we thought they were". :rotf:

Fuck.

[Stanny]

You're full of shit. You can't possibly expect the guy to hit from that far out and be nails. Get his ass closer if you want fuching field goals. Personally, we're losing because we're not getting fuching TD's! That's the problem. We're getting our asses kicked with McCown and his fuching int's.

Blame the one that matters, not the kicker.



A 52 yarder in that altitude is like a 46 yarder in our stadium....He should make those strait up....The guy hit the fucking top of the goal post on that miss and had the distance from 65 yards out. He had his chance to shine and he blew it and he sucks. It's Cole Ford all over again and this guy was supposed to make us forget about that schmuck.

McCown showed heart and grit, but still sucked ass. The guy has no confidence in himself with anything over 15 yards. Even on the throw for the TD, fuckin Porter had to damn near stop to catch that loft of a pass. He got his chances in two games, it's time to put in Pepp.

Stu is the achilles heel and is beyond TERRIBLE and have stated from day one, no range, bad angles and even worse tackling skills. I would bet the farm this guy is shown the door at the end of the season.

We have no pass rush and our corners simply can't hang for that long and its unfair for us to think so. Now Burgess hurts his calf? Hopefully its not for long.

Gallery played a hell of a game outside the one costly flag, guy is mulling fools on running plays and is protecting a lot better on passing downs. Sims just cant play against his nemisis from Tampa. Cornell Green has been a big surprise at RT.

Ryan needs to start sending the house as we have no pass rush.

Kiff, make the right call bro and don't be stubborned....

[Raidermania12]

Well its good to see the Broncos are firm believers in rubbing it in.
"They stole it from us and we stole it right back," Elam said.

"I feel bad," Broncos safety John Lynch said. "But not really."

Kiff's take.
"Nobody was aware they called timeout," lamented Oakland's rookie coach, Lane Kiffin. "They rushed just like there wasn't a timeout. Maybe somebody's got to tell me the rule. They should tell the ref to blow it just before he kicks it."

The Rat Fuck at work.
Shanahan knew exactly when to call it: right as long snapper Jon Condo looked up.

"When you take it down to a millimeter of a second, that works pretty good," Lynch said. "Mike's timing was unbelievable. I was standing next to him when he told the referee, 'We're going to call a timeout.' But then I'm saying, 'All right, do it! Do it!' And he did, I think with two seconds, and the guy blew his whistle."

On Jano
"I've never seen anybody hit the top of the upright from 52 yards out," Elam said. "He's very talented."

Janikowski's leg strength had the Broncos on edge.

"That's what we were fearful of on that last drive," Lynch said. "He can be erratic, but you know he can kick the ball from 70 yards here."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=270916007

[Abelardo]

No doubt there are infinite ways to lose a game and very few to win it. The Raiders proved themselves the most creative team in the NFL at this subject. I'm tired of this asskicking.

Last year I witnessed the browns game at home and the seafags in Seattle. This was particularly embarrassing. We're tired of being the laughingstock of the NFL.

We know this is just the beggining of a new process (one more...), just you have to crawl before walking, take babysteps, blah, blah, blah. The size of this babysteps will probably put us in winning mode the year we can finish the Talibans and moslim guerilla. loooong way to go. Jamarcus Russell is not ready to play yet. But Kiffin is in many ways a harder rookie. His learning curve is more steep than Russell's. Still we se McClown playing.

[NIPS]

Problem solved

http://media.scout.com/media/image/36/361210.jpg

Still dont think a kicker is worth a 2nd rd pick?

[Freakshow]

Problem solved

http://media.scout.com/media/image/36/361210.jpg

Still dont think a kicker is worth a 2nd rd pick?

I hear ya nips. In my book ANYONE that can effect the outcome of the game is worth a high pick, especially if that player is consistent. I actually didn't mind it when we took Polokowski if the first, thinking that he could be a difference maker both with his range and kickoffs - a weapon like that would be great to have. But obviously that was assuming he'd actually pan out. The logic is there to make the selection but it's always a crap shoot.

[CrossBones]

I hear ya nips. In my book ANYONE that can effect the outcome of the game is worth a high pick, especially if that player is consistent. I actually didn't mind it when we took Polokowski if the first, thinking that he could be a difference maker both with his range and kickoffs - a weapon like that would be great to have. But obviously that was assuming he'd actually pan out. The logic is there to make the selection but it's always a crap shoot.But Janikowski WAS effective in college. He just isn't in the pros.

Spend no more fucking high picks on kickers. Just don't do it. It's not necessary.

[Stanny]

But Janikowski WAS effective in college. He just isn't in the pros.

Spend no more fucking high picks on kickers. Just don't do it. It's not necessary.



Just to play Devils Advocate....We knew he was a fucked up party animal in college as well.....Al should of known not to draft a "Drunk Pollock.":beerbang: Wide Right!!!

I think we'll see an improvement with Kiff at the helm with the recruiting background.

[Jack's sore libido]

Janikowski was not one of the "wide right" kickers.

[Jack's sore libido]

Gerry Thomas
Dan Mowrey
Matt Munyon
Xavier Beitia

[Stanny]

Janikowski was not one of the "wide right" kickers.


I meant he's become a wide right kicker, hell wide left, wide everything.....he had a bad rap in college with his background which to me would of told me "Dude won't work hard to be the best, he would rather party." He's average at best with a huge inaccurate leg

[S and B Executioner]

are you being serious? huff made about one play all day in run support and schweigart, well, looked about as bad as I've ever seen him look. missed tackle after missed tackle - a total joke imo. poor angles, two steps late (always) and doesn't deliver a blow or wrap up. aside from not getting burned deep he was absolutely pathetic.

No, no, no!! Huff was on spot ALL FREAKIN DAY!! Sweig, on the other hand, should be cut tomarrow,. Dude was missing on every other play!!

[S and B Executioner]

Two things hurting our secondary:

1) No pass rush. Burgess and Sapp need to get going...Soon.

2) The safeties. Sadly I think that our corners are being unfairly picked on because of how poor the safety play has been.

Stu is playing bad against the pass, and worse against the run...Picture what we would look like with Huff at FS and Darius smashing guys at SS.

Huff is also well below expectations, and is playing as pedestrian as a SS can. He is a top ten pick, who is invisible for most the game. Dissapointing.

I look silly for supporting Routt. Dude seems a step slow every play, and is being abused.

Washington isnt playing as good as he can, and even think Aso is well below his performance last year, although he has been solid.

So much for a top ten defence.

The secondary, as a GROUP, sucked big hairy balls the past 2 weeks. That is partially the fault of a poor defensive scheme with little to NO pass rush. Burgess wants to get paid?? EARN IT SLOB!!!!! Aso wants to get paid?? EARN IT, SLOB!!!!!!!

With no pass rush, we get picked on and with no down field coverage, the pass rush will be weak. We need both and lack both.

[RaiderIVlife]

No, no, no!! Huff was on spot ALL FREAKIN DAY!! Sweig, on the other hand, should be cut tomarrow,. Dude was missing on every other play!!

Did the Denver TE's hurt us yesterday?

The answer of course is not at all. Huff had one of his best games as a Raider, the lack of "explosion" plays notwithstanding.

Stuey blows, I've been saying it for some time. The way he got punked by Travis Henry at the end of a long run was downright embarrasing.

I ask the question again, did this franchise really have Tatum, Atkinson, Eddie Anderson & Van McKelroy roaming the backend during the 70's & 80's?

[S and B Executioner]

You're full of shit. You can't possibly expect the guy to hit from that far out and be nails. Get his ass closer if you want fuching field goals. Personally, we're losing because we're not getting fuching TD's! That's the problem. We're getting our asses kicked with McCown and his fuching int's.

Blame the one that matters, not the kicker.

I'll carry that a bit further. Jano nailed the fuckin kick, but was robbed by the officials holding The Rats cock. I don't fault Jano on this one at all.

[RaiderIVlife]

I like our LB'ers though.........

Thomas Howard & Kirk Morrison have pro-bowl potential and Sam Williams should get more P.T.

The secondary will come around IMO. Aso, Washington & Huff are fine. Stuey MUST go and hopefully soon. Routt is too inconsistent and Chris Carr should get more reps.

I'd like to see BJ Ward get some PT along with Carr/Routt rotating the nickel basee on matchups.

[RZ]

Huff didn't suck.. he was out fucking standing. I was AT the game... I saw the entire field of play, not just the angle that some dumbass camera man wants you to see on TV. Watching the games on TV doesn't give you a fuckin clue of whats going on down field... Huff was lights out.

Let me guess, he didn't get an INT, so he SUCKS
Let me guess, he didn't make a hit that jarred the ball loose, so he SUCKS
Let me guess, you didn't get to see him make some neato hit on TV, so he SUCKS..

Fuck Im sick of listening to some of this crap....

Im sure Crow has him listed as Mr Dud Failure :rolls eyes:

[Raidermania12]

Huff looked like he always has. But I never thought he sucked. He ballhawks and gets to the ball. Better than anyone on this team at that.

Schweigert wasnt any better than average out there. But he did get in on more plays than usual.

Sam williams and Tommy Kelly both were garbage. Kelly is more ineffective than Brayton at DE. I saw several plays where he was supposed to stay at home but completely went for the misdirection. He wasnt a threat for sacks at DE. And I honestly think we are screwed at his position all year.

sam Williams Just isnt that amazing a Strong side LB ballhawk. And its him not getting through that leads to Schweigert being stuck making 9 tackles at the FS spot as the last guy left. IMO bring in BJ ward all you want, but dont expect him to slow down Travis henry when he gets through Sammy's side untouched.

[Madturk]

I thought with all the attention that Burgess has been commanding, it would free Kelly up to reign havoc but he looks nothing like he did in pre-season. It wouldn't surprise me to see Richardson starting by the end of the season. Brayton is just absolutely useless out there. Once he engages with a blocker, he's basically toast. Sapp's been a no show too. Maybe the injury to Burgess will force Ryan to change things up a bit.

[RaiderDestiny]

You're full of shit. You can't possibly expect the guy to hit from that far out and be nails. Get his ass closer if you want fuching field goals. Personally, we're losing because we're not getting fuching TD's! That's the problem. We're getting our asses kicked with McCown and his fuching int's.

Blame the one that matters, not the kicker.

Sorry friend. 50 yard kicks are common place in the NFL nowadays. Average kickers make them consistently. He proved the kick before it that he can make that distance easily. He got headjacked. You could see it in his reaction when he missed. Vinatieri would not have missed the second kick. Jano is a head case and that is his problem.

[RaiderDestiny]

I may catch flack for this, but scapegoating Schweigert is a lil too extreme. It seems every can name every tackle he missed while overlooking that he made 9 tackles and was in on countless other plays. That doesn't make up for anything he fucked up, but again the calling for his head over anyone else is extreme. I thought he did do a better job of getting to the ball carriers this game that last, with very mixed results. Also Huff still has been far worse in coverage than Schweigert so far. I dont think I'm calling for bj ward just yet, though i'm glad we didnt use hiriam eugene.

I have a theory about this with Schweig. He makes a lot of tackles because he is making tackles on players when he should have been in position to make a play on the ball. He is always a half second late. To me, this is because he is intelligent and can think his way into position, but does not have the natural football instincts that would put him into position to actually make a play on the ball ala Polamalu, Reed, Sean Taylor, etc...

[Madturk]

I'm not a Jano apologist but I think he nails the second one too with a decent snap and hold. Another split second and that bitch hooks inside the upright.

[007]

Huff didn't suck.. he was out fucking standing. I was AT the game... I saw the entire field of play, not just the angle that some dumbass camera man wants you to see on TV. Watching the games on TV doesn't give you a fuckin clue of whats going on down field... Huff was lights out.

Let me guess, he didn't get an INT, so he SUCKS
Let me guess, he didn't make a hit that jarred the ball loose, so he SUCKS
Let me guess, you didn't get to see him make some neato hit on TV, so he SUCKS..

Fuck Im sick of listening to some of this crap....

Im sure Crow has him listed as Mr Dud Failure :rolls eyes:

Lights out hey?

He sure didnt look like it on TV. He had a few missed tackles, It looked like Stokley was open in the slot damn near all game, and his 5 tackles and 1 sack while helping give up 300+ yards in passing offense per game is less than exciting.

He's barely played like a first day pick, let alone a top 7 draft choice.

Haloti Ngata has more career INT's...:rolleyes:

Stuart Schweigert and Mike Huff make up the most overrated and underwhelming safety duo in the league. They only look mediocre because Asomugha shuts down his guy for the entire game.

[Freakshow]

I'm actually relieved to some extent to hear that Huff looked better "in person" than he did on TV. Admittedly the camera doesn't tell the whole truth and I welcome anyone to come to his defense because if you're seeing something I'm not great. I want the dude to pan out as much as anyone but so far he's been, well, pretty average imo. Making big hits, interceptions, forced fumbles are all part of it and simply "not getting beat in pass coverage" or providing "adequate run support" aren't enough for a top-10 selection. I know he's still young but it's time he started making some plays on the ball. I don't see that instinctual nature that some of the great ones possess (sanders, polamalu, wilson) but instead I think he relies too much on his immense physical speed and quickness. Not hearing his name called can be good (meaning his man was blanketed), but hearing that he made a great play is even better.

[BigTron]

I thought Huff looked good. Either way he is young and talented and playing at a decent level. He should be playing at FS roaming the field more. Stu is the one who stinks. Huff gets a bum wrap for being drafted high I think he is going to develop into one of the games best when he starts playing FS next season.

[Freakshow]

I thought Huff looked good. Either way he is young and talented and playing at a decent level. He should be playing at FS roaming the field more. Stu is the one who stinks. Huff gets a bum wrap for being drafted high I think he is going to develop into one of the games best when he starts playing FS next season.

While I agree that Huff may be better suited to play FS I'm curious to know where you are reading that this is going to be the case. Other than forum member posts I've not read word one about "Huff to FS" being a possibility, much less a reality for later this season or next. Elighten me.

I'd like to see B.J at SS and Huff at free but Ward hasn't really seen the field much so far. Could be asking too much but stranger things have happened.

[BigTron]

While I agree that Huff may be better suited to play FS I'm curious to know where you are reading that this is going to be the case. Other than forum member posts I've not read word one about "Huff to FS" being a possibility, much less a reality for later this season or next. Elighten me.

I'd like to see B.J at SS and Huff at free but Ward hasn't really seen the field much so far. Could be asking too much but stranger things have happened.

Sorry I was just going off the obvious assumption Stu Shwagterd is going to be removed from the starting line-up if he continues to be the weakest link of this D. We need a SS who can lay the wood and put fear into the offense. Darius could have been that guy for us but I guess he looked done? BJ Ward can surely hit very hard. I would love to see Stu removed form the line-up and BJ inserted at SS. Either way we should be looking to upgrade the following positions.


WR, C, LT, S, DE, DT and OLB.

[raiderfreak7]

Lights out hey?

He sure didnt look like it on TV. He had a few missed tackles, It looked like Stokley was open in the slot damn near all game, and his 5 tackles and 1 sack while helping give up 300+ yards in passing offense per game is less than exciting.


The majority of the time it looked like Routt was covering Stockley (I'm pretty sure I saw him there two of his three catches) and Huff on Daniel Graham (one catch).

Honestly, watching the game I thought this was Huff's best game and he was a player on defense I was really keying on.....*shrug*

[007]

I hope Im wrong, and that Huff was 'lights out'...I just didnt see it.

I just expect more from a top ten or even first round safety.

Stu and him have been very dissapointing in the run D and pass D, IMO.

Lets hope the entire secondary steps up, or its gonna be a long season. Again.

[jatfly]

- Janikowski Unhappy with OT Miss --
Tue Sep 18, 2007 --from FFMastermind.com

The San Francisco Chronicle reports Oakland Raiders PK Sebastian Janikowski said he thought he hit the second attempt at a 52-yard field goal in overtime better than the first, although it clipped the top of the left upright and fell wide. "I've had too many 50-yard misses," he said. But he felt so good making the first attempt - which was waved off by a Denver timeout called just before the snap - he was fine with repeating the effort, regardless of the distance. "I don't care how long it is - 50, 60," he said. "I should make those. They gave me a chance to win it, and I let everybody down." On the first overtime attempt, HC Lane Kiffin said, Janikowski created a divot, forcing holder P Shane Lechler to move slightly to the right for the rekick. As a result, Kiffin said, a Denver player coming from that side came close to blocking it.



I sure hope effin so!!!! WE NEED A NEW KICKER!!!!!!!!!!

[Limee]

Maybe if he lost some weight he wouldn't leave such a divot.

[S and B Executioner]

Great post, hb.

Right on the money on every point.

I think Kiffin has done a GREAT job since taking over as HC.
However, ..... if Culpepper doesn't get the start v. Cleveland I'll level my first major dose of criticism his way.

QB was our most glaring weak link on Sunday.


I agree with HB's post as well. Give dude some rep!!!

But for all of Kiff's doings that are positive, his coddling of MCClown is a huge detriment and he is gonna start losing guys in the locker room if he doesnt pull the plug on this waste of grey matter.

I said, during the game, that we better see Pepp in the second half or Kiff is dead to me. Until i see him stop with the ball washing of McClown, he will be dead to me. He said, over and over in TC, that no one is on scholarship here. Well, it appears as though McClown is and that is bad for the team.

[S and B Executioner]

I thought with all the attention that Burgess has been commanding, it would free Kelly up to reign havoc but he looks nothing like he did in pre-season. It wouldn't surprise me to see Richardson starting by the end of the season. Brayton is just absolutely useless out there. Once he engages with a blocker, he's basically toast. Sapp's been a no show too. Maybe the injury to Burgess will force Ryan to change things up a bit.

All the more reason to play Richardson more or to have kept Quentin Moses.:shakehead:

[S and B Executioner]

I'm not a Jano apologist but I think he nails the second one too with a decent snap and hold. Another split second and that bitch hooks inside the upright.

That is my other point. On the fisrt kick, he was nails!! On the second, the snap was off and he shanked it. Look at the snaps that Lechler had to put up with all day....high and wide! Condo is killing us!! Where is Adam Treu?? If (and I hate if's) True is there, we are 1-1, possibly 2-0!

[S and B Executioner]

Man, you guys baggin on Huff, dude was 100% better than he was last season and made more improvments in the Denver game. Great in run support and it isn't his fault he can't play both safety positions at once. Stu is blowing it and as a result, Huff looks worse.

[RaiderIVlife]

Man, you guys baggin on Huff, dude was 100% better than he was last season and made more improvments in the Denver game. Great in run support and it isn't his fault he can't play both safety positions at once. Stu is blowing it and as a result, Huff looks worse.

I don't know what game they are watching either. Huff is looking very solid too me.

[S and B Executioner]

I don't know what game they are watching either. Huff is looking very solid too me.

Just to piggy back what I said earlier, some people act like we have failed in the pick of Huff because he ISN'T Ed Reed, Polomalu or whats-his-face in Washington.

Look gang, we can't be expected to land every fuckin' super hero available in the draft. Just because dude was a Top 10 pick, doesn't make him superman. It's just as much of a crap shoot as if he was taken in the 3rd or 6th rounds.

But he is STILL a better safety (FS or SS) than we have seen in the Raiders secondary since Rod Woodson was gimping around in our Super Bowl year. Give the guy a break, some people need more time to GET IT and in year two on a pretty bad team, Huff is making huge strides and working his ass off.

Fuck, some of you remind me of.....well....ME!!!!!!!!

[hawaiianboy]

Where is Adam Treu?? If (and I hate if's) True is there, we are 1-1, possibly 2-0!

Treu was here for Jano's last two very uninspiring seasons, wasn't he?... Maybe Jano needs to be kicking in a dome with little birds asinging and rose petals afloating while wrapped in that plastic popcorn shipping wrap?... Bottom line is the guy is 39 for his last 60 kicks... Now I suck at math, but I'm pretty sure that percentage ='s not so freakin good...

If Al wasn't sitting way out there on the thin branch that comes with drafting a kicker in the middle of the first round, I'm pretty sure the Polish John Daly and all his driving range potential would have been replaced by some other little foreign lawn gnome looking kicker by now...

[R4Life]

Off-day notes
Posted by Jerry McDonald - NFL Writer on Tuesday at 3:44 pm

Three quotes which prove players are so focused on their jobs they sometimes don't realize what comes out of their mouth:

– "I didn't think this game was difficult for us as far as coverage. I don't know that we blew any assignment. I have to watch it . . . I didn't think it was that bad." _ Raiders cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha regarding the pass defense against Denver.

OK, Asomugha's coverage was pretty good, and the pass interference penalty he received was a close call _ he did turn around an instant before the ball arrived. Linebackers Thomas Howard and Kirk Morrison were good in coverage as well.

As for the rest of the secondary . . . not good. Too many open receivers.

– "It was hard because the run game was developing so well for us it was hard to get away from it . . . it was hard to build a good rhythm in the passing game. Somewhere in there, there's a good balance." — quarterback Josh McCown regarding the "embarrassing" passing attack against Denver.

If so, this is groundbreaking stuff _ the first time in recorded NFL history a strong running game has actually worked to the detriment of the passing game.

Maybe this happened in in college when Barry Switzer's Oklahoma teams had Thomas Lott running the option, but in the NFL, it's universally accepted that a solid running game should open up the passing game.

Some of Ben Roethlisberger's best games come when he throws 20 passes or less for Pittsburgh.

– "Our O-line did a great job. I don't think we gave up too many sacks, if we gave up one," _ running back LaMont Jordan.

The offensive line did a very good job run blocking, but McCown was sacked four times.

More news and notes and observations from the player's day off:

– Lane Kiffin was ready at the end of his press briefing when word got back to him that CBS analyst Rich Gannon's commentary included a story relayed by Mike Shanahan that Denver expected to take charge late in the game because the Raiders don't practice hard enough.

"I'm kind of hearing that third hand so I don't know what was said exactly," Kiffin said. "But Mike must have pretty good spies if he knows how long and how hard we practice every day . . . maybe Lombardi told him."

And with that, Kiffin thanked reporters and left room.

Lombardi, of course, is Mike Lombardi, the Art Shell "fox" who is now in the hen house of the Broncos.

It was the best press conference exit since Bill Callahan read a prepared statement the day before he was fired, bolted from the podium and when asked, "Are you taking any questions,?" replied, "No!" before walking through the media room door for the final time.

– With Atlanta having signed Byron Leftwich to a two-year contract worth $7 million, the most likely trade partner for McCown, Daunte Culpepper or Andrew Walter is no longer seeking a quarterback.

JaMarcus Russell will be exempt for one more game, watching from the sidelines and taking it all in, but will be in uniform when the Raiders visit Miami in Week 4. Kiffin said it is unlikely the Raiders would keep four quarterbacks

– For anyone keeping track, Arizona defensive end Quentin Moses has been inactive the first two games of the season.

It doesn't mean the Raiders necessarily made the right move in cutting the first pick of the third round, but it indicates he hasn't exactly been "unblockable" with the Cardinals.

Strong pass rushers simply aren't inactive, because they're useful even if it's only for five to 10 plays a game.

– I've heard from a few people who feel I was too hard on the Raiders' defense against Denver, considering Oakland generated nine points with a touchdown, a safety and opened the overtime with a three-and-out against the Denver offense.

All those things are true. Three dominant, top-flight defensive sequences. There was also a two-play drive that ended in an interception by Kirk Morrison.

Denver's other eight possessions racked up 26 first downs. Going 4-for-12 is not what anyone had in mind for a defense which hoped to be one of the NFL's best, even against a solid opponent.

[hawaiianboy]

– Lane Kiffin was ready at the end of his press briefing when word got back to him that CBS analyst Rich Gannon's commentary included a story relayed by Mike Shanahan that Denver expected to take charge late in the game because the Raiders don't practice hard enough.

"I'm kind of hearing that third hand so I don't know what was said exactly," Kiffin said. "But Mike must have pretty good spies if he knows how long and how hard we practice every day . . . maybe Lombardi told him."

And with that, Kiffin thanked reporters and left room.


:pound:

Can I give rep to Kiffin for being such a spunky little bastard?...

[Jack's sore libido]

– For anyone keeping track, Arizona defensive end Quentin Moses has been inactive the first two games of the season.

It doesn't mean the Raiders necessarily made the right move in cutting the first pick of the third round, but it indicates he hasn't exactly been "unblockable" with the Cardinals.

Strong pass rushers simply aren't inactive, because they're useful even if it's only for five to 10 plays a game.

Quoted because I think it's important that people online read this.

[R4Life]

I am willing to consider that KK knows more than me.

[Raidermania12]

Last meeting
Charlie Frye passed for three touchdowns as the Browns came back from an 18-point deficit to defeat the Raiders, 24-21, in Week 4 last season.

Streaks
That was the first time the Browns had ever beaten the Raiders, who have won six of the team's seven meetings.
not worth its own thread, but whats wrong with this statement i lifted from nfl.com?

[Jack's sore libido]

not worth its own thread, but whats wrong with this statement i lifted from nfl.com?

Maybe the fact that it's wrong?

The Browns have won at least two in a row against the Raiders, including a close loss in 2003 I believe where William Green had a big game.

Also, there was teh Eric Metcalf game in the 90s.

[Raidermania12]

Yep, that would be it. NFL.Com wtf?