View Full Version : Shell to return to Raiders as head coach
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2326498
After considering outsiders such as Ken Whisenhunt, Bobby Petrino and Mike Martz, the Raiders went with one of their own and hired Art Shell as their new coach.
Shell will be announced Saturday at 4:30 p.m. ET as the new coach of the Raiders. He replaces Norv Turner, who was fired after two seasons and went to the 49ers as offensive coordinator.
In hiring Shell, Raiders boss Al Davis was able to correct a move he said was a mistake more than a decade ago. Davis fired Shell after the 1994 season. Shell, who was 56-41 as the Raiders head coach from 1988 to 1994, will get a chance to right that wrong.
Shell was working for the NFL when he was called by Davis last week to interview for the job. Shell flew to Oakland and interviewed last Thursday. Once Whisenhunt, the Steelers offensive coordinator, decided to stay with the Steelers and informed the Raiders of his intentions Thursday, Davis put in a call to Shell.
Shell, who was in Tampa, Fla., working for the league, got on a flight as soon as possible and made it to the Raiders' offices Friday.
After meeting with Davis most of Friday afternoon, he was offered the job and his agent worked out the contract Friday evening.
Other than Jon Gruden, Shell was the last head coach of the Raiders to have a winning record. Mike White, Joe Bugel, Bill Callahan and Turner followed Shell and failed to produce a winning record.
In the end, Davis kept it in the family and hired Shell.
Sorry, I forgot about the news links right on the front page...so this all begs the question, who's the staff gonna be?
Since we couldn't get Whisenhunt from Pittsburgh, can we pry their QB coach to be our OC? Mark Whipple is his name. I have heard reports of John Shoop, but there's rumors he maybe moving else where.
O-line coach...since we are trying to go all Raiders here, can we convince Lincoln Kennedy?
Plunkett16
02-10-2006, 10:22 PM
I heard tom walsh is our oc?
CrossBones
02-11-2006, 08:22 AM
I've heard rumors of Stoop or tom Walsh as offenive coordinator.
I'm tired of tying to read Al's mind. I'll just sit and wait and when Al is ready to give us the details he will.
Long live the Art Shell era.
Rupert
02-11-2006, 11:46 AM
Who the hell is Tom Walsh?
CrossBones
02-11-2006, 11:58 AM
Who the hell is Tom Walsh?Apparently he coached for the Radiers ion the 80's. It's just not ringing a bell. That's not cool. :confused:
Maybe Angry Pope can find something for us on Mr. Walsh. I'm also confused between the differnce of "Tom" Walsh and 'Tim" Walsh. :eek:
Plunkett16
02-11-2006, 03:36 PM
art shell interview
http://www.raiders.com/multimedia/
CrossBones
02-11-2006, 04:41 PM
Sadness becomes me.At least some of us are excited about Art being the HC.
As I recall, none of us were excited about Norv Turner.
Big difference.
Get on board bro...no sense torturing yourself.
Long Live the Art Shell Era.
CrossBones
02-11-2006, 06:03 PM
Die, Al. Just die.No soup for you today Mr. Crow. :(
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:23 PM
Supposedly, this is the guy...take it for what it is worth...
Playoffs show new QB wave lapping at NFL
January 7, 2003
When I want to know about a quarterback, I have this question I like to ask:
"Would Sid Gillman like him?"
Sid, may he rest in peace, had very definite ideas about what quarterbacks should look like and what they should have for breakfast and how they should brush their teeth. What I'm saying is that there wasn't anything about quarterbacks and quarterbacking that Gillman did not consider of monumental importance.
"He had such a dynamic impact on the NFL and how the game is played," Tom Walsh was saying. Walsh talks pretty well, being that he does it for a living as a football analyst for the Westwood One broadcasting network. He also knows something about quarterbacking, having served the Raiders as their quarterbacks coach from 1988-1994. When Gillman was acting as the athletic director at what then was U.S. International University, he chose Walsh as the school's head football coach, which says something about Walsh.
Anyhow, we were talking and I mentioned how the NFL playoffs are supposed to represent such a searing experience for quarterbacks who have not been exposed to them. In the weekend just past, I said, Chad Pennington, Michael Vick, Tommy Maddox and Kelly Holcomb, all parties to the eliminations for the first time, had not only not been consumed but had positively thrived.
For a reason, according to Walsh. "You're seeing the new wave of quarterbacks," he said. For too long, he noted, the NFL had a void in this area. There just weren't quarterbacks coming along in the image of Joe Montana, John Elway, Dan Marino and Steve Young, all of whom had retired.
Now there is, according to Walsh, and they are making the playoffs their theater. "The crossing of the threshold," in Walsh's words.
How, I wondered, would Gillman have felt about Pennington, who to me looks as if he might be Jan Stenerud's little brother. Very Nordic. Very much of a winner, too, as the New York Jets have been since they took the football from Vinny Testaverde and handed it to the third-year player from Marshall.
"I love him," said Walsh, "and Sid would love him. Great ball mechanics. He throws an assortment of passes with varied trajectories and velocity. It's like an artist's brush on a canvas. He does the same thing when he throws the football. He has touch."
Passes should be propelled, in Walsh's thinking, as if they were coming out of a well and going into another well. "Or out of a chimney into a chimney," said Walsh. Point to point, and the points are not large ones. Pennington is able to put them in the preferred places.
"I just think he has an uncommon sense and a feel that just comes along once in years," judged Walsh. "And he has a total grasp of the game."
Consider Vick, I invited. "Phenomenal tools, tremendous skills," said Walsh. "Great improvisational skills. His feet are able to buy him additional time."
On one of his impromptu flights, Vick this season dodged about for 16 seconds, Walsh said, and the Atlanta quarterback often has eluded capture for nine or 10 seconds.
"He takes away the rush," said Walsh. "Defenses are so afraid of him that they go to four-man lines and in order not to leave any lanes have the defenders 'bull-rush' (attacking the man in front of them). That way, no one gets any penetration."
Vick's presence also plays on the minds of rival pass defenders, Walsh believes. "It's hard to feel secure," he said. "This guy can escape from a phone booth."
Walsh recognized that Vick has profited from Dan Reeves having torn a number of pages from his playbook in order to simplify matters for his young quarterback. In Philadelphia on Saturday, Vick is going to be opposing an Eagles defense that won't be as fragile against the run as was the Green Bay defense last week in Lambeau Field. Andy Reid's defensive coordinator is Jim Johnson, an innovative individual who can be expected to introduce some exotic alignments meant to confound Vick.
The Pittsburgh Steelers' Maddox and the Cleveland Browns' Holcomb have been around. Maddox is 31, Holmcomb 29. "But not every player reaches a level of excellence at the same time," argued Walsh, sounding like the former Raiders coaching lieutenant that he is.
To support this point, Walsh pointed to the Raiders' Rich Gannon, out of football in 1994, the NFL's MVP in 2002. Gannon is 37.
"Some quarterbacks make it at 24, some at 28-29, some at 32," said Walsh. "They mature as players."
When Maddox left UCLA before what would have been his junior season, he was leaving too early, in Walsh's belief.
"This is a game that requires repetitions," said Walsh. "Maddox excluded about 4,000 snaps when he left early. But it's a testimony to his strength and conviction that he has stayed with it."
He certainly stayed with it when he escorted the Steelers to their come-from-behind 36-33 conquest of the Browns. Holcomb threw for 429 yards in that game, Maddox for 367.
"I thought he played well," Walsh said of Holcomb. "He made the intermediate throws, and he made the deep throws. And he had just enough mobility."
For Holcomb, this was only his fourth NFL start; he had been sitting at the feet of the Indianapolis Colts' Peyton Manning before the Browns acquired him. With the Browns, Holcomb played behind starter Tim Couch.
Holcomb did not attempt to be another Manning against Pittsburgh, which Walsh appreciated. He brought up the New Orleans Saints' Aaron Brooks.
"The guy's a physical talent," said Walsh, "but he tries to be like a Brett Favre Jr., and it's killing him."
Walsh does not include the San Francisco 49ers' Jeff Garcia among the quarterbacks he believes are arriving. "He started his move up a couple of years ago," said Walsh of the former Canadian Leaguer.
The members of the Pennington-Vick-Maddox-Holcomb group are the ones who excite Walsh. "They're the next cycle," he contended. "They're going to become mainstays in the NFL."
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:23 PM
If it is him...he had a tape out....
COACHING EFFECTIVE OFFENSIVE BACKFIELD PLAY
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JIM WINKLER - UNIV. OF REDLANDS: 2 Tape Series
TOM WALSH - LA RAIDERS: Offensive Line & Offensive Backs Pass Protection Schemes and Blitz Pick - Up
BILL WILLIAMS - FCPGA: Wide Receiver & Running Back Drills - Part 2
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:34 PM
A little more..just in case it is him...
Walsh was an assistant with the Los Angeles Raiders for 14 seasons before departing in 1995. He started as receivers coach with the Raiders in 1982 and became offensive coordinator and quarterbacks coach five years later.
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:35 PM
It appears he did some OC with us.....take it for what it is worth...
AFC Championship: Steelers at Broncos
January 16, 2006
When/TV: Noon Sunday / Ch. 8
Where: Invesco Field in Denver
Caliente line: Broncos by 3½
Series: Denver leads regular season 11-6-1 and playoffs 3-2.
Analysis: Running and being able to stop the run are paramount elements in every NFL game. Playoff games generally being waged more conservatively than regular-season games, these factors are multiplied in importance. No team stresses them in the degree of the Steelers.
"They're not afraid to 'man up,' " said Tom Walsh, who for 13 seasons coached the receivers and quarterbacks of the Raiders and finally served as the team's offensive coordinator. "It becomes a matter of physical skills and not so much glitter and gadgets and all that kind of stuff." To Walsh, most NFL teams talk about toughness. The Steelers do more than merely talk about it. "Put it this way," Walsh said. "If you score with a 65-yard bomb over the top of a defense, it does not have as much of a demoralizing effect as if you have a 12-or 14-play drive. You're beating everybody up. You're making it physical. You're beating more than an individual; you're beating the front seven. It's trench warfare, so to speak."
The Broncos, it should be noted, themselves dote on a running game based on the thrusts of Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell, and they have defended the run strongly. They have allowed only three 100-yard rushing games this season. New England managed just 79 yards rushing (with a 3.7 average) while Denver was eliminating the defending Super Bowl champions on Saturday 27-13. The Anderson-Bell amalgam, however, doesn't compare with the Steelers' combination of Willie Parker-Jerome Bettis. It behooves the hosts to start strongly; the Steelers are not styled to make up major deficits.
– JERRY MAGEE
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:35 PM
Art Shell...1989...
1989 Los Angeles Raiders
Record: 8 - 8 - 0
Head Coaches: Mike Shanahan (1-3-0), Art Shell (7-5-0)
Points scored: 315 (#18 of 28 in the NFL)
Points allowed: 297 (#10 of 28 in the NFL)
Game-by-game results
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| Week | Opponent | Result | Score |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| 1 | San Diego Chargers | W | 40-14 |
| 2 | at Kansas City Chiefs | L | 19-24 |
| 3 | at Denver Broncos | L | 21-31 |
| 4 | Seattle Seahawks | L | 20-24 |
| 5 | at New York Jets | W | 14- 7 |
| 6 | Kansas City Chiefs | W | 20-14 |
| 7 | at Philadelphia Eagles | L | 7-10 |
| 8 | Washington Redskins | W | 37-24 |
| 9 | Cincinnati Bengals | W | 28- 7 |
| 10 | at San Diego Chargers | L | 12-14 |
| 11 | at Houston Oilers | L | 7-23 |
| 12 | New England Patriots | W | 24-21 |
| 13 | Denver Broncos | W | 16-13 |
| 14 | Phoenix Cardinals | W | 16-14 |
| 15 | at Seattle Seahawks | L | 17-23 |
| 16 | at New York Giants | L | 17-34 |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:36 PM
1990 Los Angeles Raiders
Record: 12 - 4 - 0
Head Coach: Art Shell
Points scored: 337 (#13 of 28 in the NFL)
Points allowed: 268 (#7 of 28 in the NFL)
Game-by-game results
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| Week | Opponent | Result | Score |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| 1 | Denver Broncos | W | 14- 9 |
| 2 | at Seattle Seahawks | W | 17-13 |
| 3 | Pittsburgh Steelers | W | 20- 3 |
| 4 | Chicago Bears | W | 24-10 |
| 5 | at Buffalo Bills | L | 24-38 |
| 6 | Seattle Seahawks | W | 24-17 |
| 7 | at San Diego Chargers | W | 24- 9 |
| 8 | |
| 9 | at Kansas City Chiefs | L | 7- 9 |
| 10 | Green Bay Packers | L | 16-29 |
| 11 | at Miami Dolphins | W | 13-10 |
| 12 | Kansas City Chiefs | L | 24-27 |
| 13 | at Denver Broncos | W | 23-20 |
| 14 | at Detroit Lions | W | 38-31 |
| 15 | Cincinnati Bengals | W | 24- 7 |
| 16 | at Minnesota Vikings | W | 28-24 |
| 17 | San Diego Chargers | W | 17-12 |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
Postseason
AFC Divisional Playoff: won 20 - 10 vs. Cincinnati Bengals
AFC Championship Game: lost 3 - 51 at Buffalo Bills
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:37 PM
1991 Los Angeles Raiders
Record: 9 - 7 - 0
Head Coach: Art Shell
Points scored: 298 (#15 of 28 in the NFL)
Points allowed: 297 (#13 of 28 in the NFL)
Game-by-game results
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| Week | Opponent | Result | Score |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| 1 | at Houston Oilers | L | 17-47 |
| 2 | Denver Broncos | W | 16-13 |
| 3 | Indianapolis Colts | W | 16- 0 |
| 4 | at Atlanta Falcons | L | 17-21 |
| 5 | San Francisco 49ers | W | 12- 6 |
| 6 | San Diego Chargers | L | 13-21 |
| 7 | at Seattle Seahawks | W | 23-20 |
| 8 | Los Angeles Rams | W | 20-17 |
| 9 | at Kansas City Chiefs | L | 21-24 |
| 10 | |
| 11 | at Denver Broncos | W | 17-16 |
| 12 | Seattle Seahawks | W | 31- 7 |
| 13 | at Cincinnati Bengals | W | 38-14 |
| 14 | at San Diego Chargers | W | 9- 7 |
| 15 | Buffalo Bills | L | 27-30 |
| 16 | at New Orleans Saints | L | 0-27 |
| 17 | Kansas City Chiefs | L | 21-27 |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
Postseason
AFC Wildcard Game: lost 6 - 10 at Kansas City Chiefs
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:37 PM
1992 Los Angeles Raiders
Record: 7 - 9 - 0
Head Coach: Art Shell
Points scored: 249 (#23 of 28 in the NFL)
Points allowed: 281 (#11 of 28 in the NFL)
Game-by-game results
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| Week | Opponent | Result | Score |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| 1 | at Denver Broncos | L | 13-17 |
| 2 | at Cincinnati Bengals | L | 21-24 |
| 3 | Cleveland Browns | L | 16-28 |
| 4 | at Kansas City Chiefs | L | 7-27 |
| 5 | New York Giants | W | 13-10 |
| 6 | Buffalo Bills | W | 20- 3 |
| 7 | at Seattle Seahawks | W | 19- 0 |
| 8 | Dallas Cowboys | L | 13-28 |
| 9 | |
| 10 | at Philadelphia Eagles | L | 10-31 |
| 11 | Seattle Seahawks | W | 20- 3 |
| 12 | Denver Broncos | W | 24- 0 |
| 13 | at San Diego Chargers | L | 3-27 |
| 14 | Kansas City Chiefs | W | 28- 7 |
| 15 | at Miami Dolphins | L | 7-20 |
| 16 | San Diego Chargers | L | 14-36 |
| 17 | at Washington Redskins | W | 21-20 |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:38 PM
1993 Los Angeles Raiders
Record: 10 - 6 - 0
Head Coach: Art Shell
Points scored: 306 (#14 of 28 in the NFL)
Points allowed: 326 (#21 of 28 in the NFL)
Game-by-game results
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| Week | Opponent | Result | Score |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| 1 | Minnesota Vikings | W | 24- 7 |
| 2 | at Seattle Seahawks | W | 17-13 |
| 3 | Cleveland Browns | L | 16-19 |
| 4 | |
| 5 | at Kansas City Chiefs | L | 9-24 |
| 6 | New York Jets | W | 24-20 |
| 7 | at Denver Broncos | W | 23-20 |
| 8 | |
| 9 | San Diego Chargers | L | 23-30 |
| 10 | at Chicago Bears | W | 16-14 |
| 11 | Kansas City Chiefs | L | 20-31 |
| 12 | at San Diego Chargers | W | 12- 7 |
| 13 | at Cincinnati Bengals | L | 10-16 |
| 14 | at Buffalo Bills | W | 25-24 |
| 15 | Seattle Seahawks | W | 27-23 |
| 16 | Tampa Bay Buccaneers | W | 27-20 |
| 17 | at Green Bay Packers | L | 0-28 |
| 18 | Denver Broncos | W | 33-30 |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
Postseason
AFC Wildcard Game: won 42 - 24 vs. Denver Broncos
AFC Divisional Playoff: lost 23 - 29 at Buffalo Bills
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:38 PM
1994 Los Angeles Raiders
Record: 9 - 7 - 0
Head Coach: Art Shell
Points scored: 303 (#19 of 28 in the NFL)
Points allowed: 327 (#17 of 28 in the NFL)
Game-by-game results
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| Week | Opponent | Result | Score |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
| 1 | at San Francisco 49ers | L | 14-44 |
| 2 | Seattle Seahawks | L | 9-38 |
| 3 | at Denver Broncos | W | 48-16 |
| 4 | San Diego Chargers | L | 24-26 |
| 5 | |
| 6 | at New England Patriots | W | 21-17 |
| 7 | at Miami Dolphins | L | 17-20 |
| 8 | Atlanta Falcons | W | 30-17 |
| 9 | Houston Oilers | W | 17-14 |
| 10 | at Kansas City Chiefs | L | 3-13 |
| 11 | at Los Angeles Rams | W | 20-17 |
| 12 | New Orleans Saints | W | 24-19 |
| 13 | Pittsburgh Steelers | L | 3-21 |
| 14 | at San Diego Chargers | W | 24-17 |
| 15 | Denver Broncos | W | 23-13 |
| 16 | at Seattle Seahawks | W | 17-16 |
| 17 | Kansas City Chiefs | L | 9-19 |
+--------+-------------------------------+----------+---------+
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:39 PM
Well Al hired Shell on the first go round, Al said that he didn't hire Shell because he was black but because he was silver and black.
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:40 PM
Tom Walsh learned from Sid Gillman...
Gillman was 63 when he left Houston. He said he was looking forward to retirement, but it was nowhere in sight. Nearing 70, Gillman broke down film for the Eagles and helped them get into Super Bowl XV. Nearing 70, Gillman broke down film for the Eagles and helped them get into Super Bowl XV.
No, the Father of the Passing Game was about to embark on a far-flung coaching odyssey. He went to Chicago as the Bears' offensive coordinator in 1977, and they made the playoffs for the first time in 14 years. He went to an obscure San Diego campus called United States International University in 1978, and, though he stayed only four months, he managed to hire four assistant coaches -- Tom Walsh, Mike Sheppard, John Fox, and Mike Solari -- who would graduate to the NFL. He went to Philadelphia as quarterbacks coach in 1979, retired, then came back again. "We wouldn't have made it to the Super Bowl without him," says **** Vermeil, who took the Eagles to Super Bowl XV and now pilots the Rams.
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:40 PM
The offensive line coach for the Arizona Cardinals, George Warhop, lists Walsh as one of his coaching influences...
"There have been several coaches who've had a big influence on me. Going back to my high school days, Tom Walsh was one of my high school coaches and he also recruited me to the University of Cincinnati when I was finishing up junior college. He also helped me eventually get into coaching in the NFL. At one time, Tom was the offensive coordinator for the Los Angeles Raiders.
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:41 PM
Art Shell
NFL Legend
Born: Arthur Shell - November 26, 1946 - Charleston, South Carolina
Drafted: Art Shell was selected by the Oakland Raiders in the third round of the 1968 NFL Draft.
Years Played: 1968-1982
Position Played: Offensive Tackle
Played For: Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders
Alma Mater: Maryland State-Eastern Shore
Inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame: 1989
Uniform Number: 78Sponsored Links
Coaching Career:
Art Shell served as Raiders offensive line coach from 1982 until 1988. He was hired as the team's head coach in 1989, and served in that capacity until 1994.
Art Shell also has the distinction of being the first African-American head coach of the modern NFL era.
Shining Moment:
In the Raiders Super Bowl XI victory over Minnesota, Art Shell limited the Vikings highly regarded defensive end Jim Marshall to no tackles, sacks or assists during the 32-14 win.
High School: Bonds-Wilson High School - North Charleston, SC
College Highlights:
• Named All-Conference Three Years
• Named All-America Twice (Pittsburgh Courier and Ebony Magazine)
NFL Highlights:
• Named All-Pro (1973,74,76,77)
• Selected to Eight Pro Bowls
• Named an All-American Football Conference Selection Six Straight Years (1973-78)
• Named to NFL All-Monday Night Team
• Played on Two Super Bowl Winning Teams (XI,XV)
• Inducted into Pro Football Hall of Fame on August 5, 1989
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:41 PM
Draft Memories: Art Shell
April 12, 2003
By Art Shell
Raiders Hall of Fame Offensive Lineman
Former Oakland Raiders offensive tackle Art Shell was a third-round draft pick in 1968 out of Maryland-Eastern Shore. He went on to have a career that landed him in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Going through the draft process in 1968 was not the same as it is these days. Shell looks back on his draft experience...
The extensive pre-draft routines you read about these days on the Internet did not exist when I was coming out of college in 1968. But that doesn't mean the scouting process wasn't thorough. You can credit the AFL for that.
When the AFL started up in 1960, they scoured the country for football talent -- they had to do their homework in order to compete with the established NFL. But most of the scouting, by both the NFL and AFL, was done during the season. No Combines or extensive private workouts. I don't think we had many practices during my four years of college football when there wasn't at least one pro scout in attendance.
I remember working out and keeping prepared as the 1968 draft approached. John Sandusky of the Colts came to work me out in the gym, and maybe a couple of other teams came by. But that was it. Other than that, my roommates and I were just waiting for the draft to come, dreaming about the opportunity to play professional football. It was the normal dream of any athlete -- make some money, buy a nice car. Not everyone had a car in those days.
Anyway, I really didn't know the Raiders were that interested in drafting me. Like many prospects those days, I thought the Dallas Cowboys were going to take me. Everyone thought the Cowboys were going to draft them because the Cowboys' scouting department always mailed out lots of cards and letters to all the prospects. I remember getting a Christmas card from the Raiders, but that was it. Based on the interest other teams had shown, I also had an inkling I might be drafted by either the 49ers or the Chargers.
The 1968 draft was held on Jan. 30. It was nothing like the televised event we see today. I was hanging out in the dorm with a few of my teammates, talking and laughing and waiting to be drafted. The phone was downstairs in the lobby, so when a call came in, it could have been for any of us. We told the kid downstairs to come get us if the phone rang, and then speculated on who would get the first call. It was me.
So I made my way downstairs. I knew I had just been drafted, but had no idea who was waiting on the other end of the phone -- not exactly like today's world of instant notification!
I got on the phone, and on the line was Ron Wolf, an Oakland personnel exec at the time. "Congratulations," he said. "You're an Oakland Raider. We drafted you in the third round. How do you feel?"
"Great," I said.
"Did you expect to be drafted this high?" he asked me.
"No," I replied. "Actually, I expected to go higher!"
I was very excited about going to the Raiders. I had always been an AFL fan, and some former teammates of mine had been drafted by other AFL teams - Emerson Boozer with the Jets and Doug Goodwin of the Bills. Plus, I was always the kind of guy who likes to root for the underdog. A month before the draft, I had found myself rooting hard for the Raiders, who were big underdogs to the Packers in Super Bowl II.
After the draft, I remember going out to Oakland and working out with the offensive line coach. It was just me and the coach, working on techniques and drills at a local junior-college field. All of a sudden, a black Cadillac pulls up. Out steps Raiders owner Al Davis, who stood there and watched us. I thought that was pretty interesting, that the owner of the team would take the time to watch his third-round draft pick working on technique.
The NFL Draft has come a long way since Shell was selected in 1968.
Looking back, we had a pretty good draft class that year -- guys like Ken Stabler (second round), George Atkinson (seventh) and Marv Hubbard (11th).
Interestingly enough, only one of the 17 players drafted by the Raiders that year started as a rookie -- Chip Oliver, a linebacker from San Diego who was drafted in the 11th round. The rest of us were backups on a team that had just been to the Super Bowl. Oliver played very well as a rookie, and I really thought he was going to have a great career as a linebacker.
But Chip was a strange guy, and he got into the hippie culture in the Bay Area. After the '69 season, he decided he didn't want to play football anymore. I think he joined a commune. A few years later, he tried to make a comeback and tried out at safety, but he never made it.
When I retired as a player and joined the Raiders' coaching staff in 1983, the first thing I had to do was learn how to evaluate talent. I spent a week on the road with scout Kent McCloughan, who still works as a scout for the Raiders.
Every team has a different way of looking at players and evaluating talent. And the scouting process has grown more sophisticated every year. But the bottom line - both in 1968 and 2003 - is the same: If you've got talent, the NFL will find you.
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:42 PM
Here is how Tom Flores feels...
"I'm happy for Art," former Raiders coach Tom Flores said from his Palm Springs-area home. "I think what he'll bring to the table is that he's been with the organization before, had a winning record and took them to the championship game. The second time around, he's probably more mature as a head coach."
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:43 PM
Supposedly, after spending so many years with us at a couple of positions, Tom Walsh was one of the favorites to replace Tom Flores until Al settled for Mike Shanahan.
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:43 PM
Supposedly, Jackie Slater is going to be our offensive line coach....take it for what it is worth.
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:44 PM
Here is our roster in 1990, Big Art's first full year as our HC...
Player Pos G GS Birthdate College
Allen, Marcus RB 16 15 03/26/1960 Southern California
Anderson, Eddie DB 16 16 07/22/1963 Fort Valley State
Bartlewski, Rich TE 4 0 08/15/1967 Fresno State
Bell, Greg RB 6 0 08/01/1962 Notre Dame
Benson, Thomas LB 16 16 09/06/1961 Oklahoma
Brown, Ron WR 16 0 03/31/1961 Arizona State
Brown, Tim WR 16 0 07/22/1966 Notre Dame
Burton, Ron LB 5 0 05/02/1964 North Carolina
Charles, Mike DT 10 0 09/23/1962 Syracuse
Davis, Scott DE 16 16 08/07/1965 Illinois
Dorn, Torin DB 16 0 02/29/1968 North Carolina
Dyal, Mike TE 3 2 05/20/1966 Texas A&M - Kingsville
Ellison, Riki LB 16 15 08/15/1960 Southern California
Evans, Vince QB 5 0 06/14/1955 Southern California
Fernandez, Mervyn WR 16 15 12/29/1959 San Jose State
Fitzpatrick, James OT 11 1 02/01/1964 Southern California
Gault, Willie WR 16 16 09/05/1960 Tennessee
Golic, Bob DT 16 16 10/26/1957 Notre Dame
Gordon, Alex LB 10 0 09/14/1964 Cincinnati
Gossett, Jeff P 16 0 01/25/1957 Eastern Illinois
cont'd....
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:45 PM
cont'd...
Graddy, Sam WR 16 0 02/10/1964 Tennessee
Graves, Rory OT 15 15 07/21/1963 Ohio State
Harden, Mike DB 15 15 02/16/1958 Michigan
Holland, Jamie WR 16 0 02/01/1964 Ohio State
Horton, Ethan TE 16 14 12/19/1962 North Carolina
Hunley, Ricky LB 11 0 11/11/1961 Arizona
Jackson, Bo RB 10 0 11/30/1962 Auburn
Jaeger, Jeff K 16 0 11/26/1964 Washington
Jimerson, A.J. LB 4 0 05/12/1968 Norfolk State
Land, Dan DB 16 0 07/03/1965 Albany State
Lewis, Garry DB 12 5 08/25/1967 Alcorn State
Long, Howie DE 12 11 01/06/1960 Villanova
McCallum, Napoleon RB 16 0 10/06/1963 Navy
McDaniel, Terry DB 16 13 02/08/1965 Tennessee
McElroy, Vann DB 3 0 01/13/1960 Baylor
Montoya, Max OG 16 16 05/12/1956 UCLA
Mosebar, Don C 16 16 09/11/1961 Southern California
Mueller, Vance RB 16 1 05/05/1964 Occidental
Parker, Andy TE 5 0 09/08/1961 Utah
Patterson, Elvis DB 16 1 10/21/1960 Kansas
Peat, Todd OG 16 1 05/20/1964 Northern Illinois
Pickel, Bill DT 14 3 11/05/1959 Rutgers
Robinson, Jerry LB 16 16 12/18/1956 UCLA
Rother, Tim DT 4 0 09/28/1965 Nebraska
Schroeder, Jay QB 16 16 06/28/1961 UCLA
Smith, Steve RB 16 15 08/30/1964 Penn State
Townsend, Greg DE 16 16 11/03/1961 Texas Christian
Turk, Dan C 16 0 06/25/1962 Wisconsin
Wallace, Aaron LB 16 0 04/17/1967 Texas A&M
Washington, Lionel DB 15 15 10/21/1960 Tulane
Wilkerson, Bruce OT 8 1 07/28/1964 Tennessee
Wise, Mike DE 12 2 06/05/1964 California-Davis
Wisniewski, Steve OG 16 16 04/07/1967 Penn State
Wright, Steve OT 16 16 04/08/1959 Northern Iowa
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:46 PM
Tom Walsh was at the press conference and speculation that he may be our OC as already mentioned at the beginning of this thread...
Davis and Shell say it's time to get tough
Ira Miller, Chronicle Staff Writer
Sunday, February 12, 2006
In a setting that was part pep rally, part alumni reunion and part revival meeting, the Raiders formally introduced Art Shell as their head coach Saturday.
John Madden, Jim Plunkett, Jack Tatum, Jim Otto, Raymond Chester and George Atkinson were among the former Raiders in the audience, listening to Shell and owner Al Davis make repeated references to the team's tradition and the toughness it used to have.
Davis confirmed that Bobby Petrino, the coach at the University of Louisville, turned down an offer to take the job before it was given to Shell. Shell becomes the first head coach fired and re-hired by Davis, and the moment elicited a rare admission from Boss Raider.
"I have never forgiven myself ... that I might have made a mistake," Davis said.
Correcting it will not be as easy as simply rehiring Shell, 11 years after Davis fired him, but it was a clear sign not only that Davis wants to get back to the Raiders' old ways, but that the team needed a coach who could command credibility in an NFL locker room.
As a Hall of Fame player and winning coach, Shell can do that, and that's at least a place to start. And before the Raiders, whose 13-35 record over the last three years matches the 49ers for worst in the NFL, can become a factor again, they seem to believe they need to re-establish an organizational identity, re-capture if you will the mystique they once had.
"I have to show them the way, the 'Raider Way,' " said Shell, who played for the Raiders for 15 seasons.
Madden, the former Raiders coach who eight days ago was elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame, acknowledged that the franchise appears to have lost its direction and its mystique.
"I haven't been around them for a long time because I've been away doing (TV) games," he said. "I know there used to be (mystique). Teams didn't like coming in to the (Oakland) Coliseum. They had that feeling -- they were a little nervous and they didn't enjoy it.
"Oakland wasn't a fun place to come and play, and every game was sold out. ... In those days, there was something to it. I don't know if it's still there now. It's probably not. If it's not, it's (Shell's) job to get it back."
Shell said he already had begun working on the team's offseason program. He declined either to address directly the status of quarterback Kerry Collins or talk about how he'd fill out his coaching staff. But signs were that one of his assistants, perhaps as offensive coordinator, will be Tom Walsh, a Raiders assistant coach during the 13 years the team spent in Los Angeles, 1982-94.
Walsh, wearing a Raiders shirt, sat quietly at the back of the room during Shell's news conference.
"It's coming home to finish what I started," said Shell, whose .577 winning percentage from 1989 through 1994 was better than all but one of the five coaches who have followed him with the Raiders. "I left coaching, but I've never left the game of football. When the job opened up, I wanted to try to be a part of it, because I felt my organization, my football team, needed me."
Shell, who was an assistant coach with Kansas City and Atlanta in the late '90s, said he didn't think it would take so long to get another head-coaching job after his first tenure with the Raiders ended.
"Players haven't changed," he said. "They all want the same thing. They all want to win, but someone has to go in there and give them direction." And, in what can be construed as a shot at former coach Bill Callahan, who once referred to his team as the "dumbest" in America, Shell said, "There's no such thing as a dumb player."
Davis said the Raiders still "have a lot of great players" on their roster, but acknowledged also that, "We're in a tough division." In 2005, Oakland went winless in division games for the first time.
Both men threw out all of the organizational catch phrases we're so familiar with, yet at one point, Shell also said, "Words don't get it done." Nonetheless, Shell said all the right things, and he and Davis were clearly in agreement when they both talked about the importance of running the ball better on offense and stopping the run better on defense.
During the 2005 season, when the Raiders finished 4-12, only three teams rushed for fewer yards than Oakland and only seven teams permitted more.
"We've got to run the football better," Davis said. "We've got to run it with toughness. This guy (Shell) knows what I'm talking about."
The Raiders' fall in their division, the AFC West, was emphasized by both men, too. Davis used the word "hate" in describing the feeling between some of these rivals, and that's probably not too strong an expression. But he said that recently, "I got the feeling the Raiders weren't ready to meet the challenge."
"It may take a short while, but we'll get that nastiness of the Raiders back," Davis said.
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:46 PM
About Shell's contract...
Contract terms weren't announced. Shell's representative, Danny More, would only say that the deal was ``indeterminable,'' and that Shell ``wasn't going anywhere for a long time.''
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:47 PM
Another quote...
``As all of you point out, I am getting older,'' Davis, 76, said, ``and I do want some people that I know and I believe in to promote the Raiders and give us that lift that we need.''
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:48 PM
Here are some words by Tom Walsh when asked about the OC position....
There is, however, an opening for an offensive coordinator. Conspicuous by his presence in the room was a man who had been an offensive assistant under Shell, Tom Walsh. Asked if he might be coming aboard again, Walsh, presently out of football, replied, "To be determined."
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:48 PM
A little more on Art's contract...
Shell, who already was the team's ninth head coach, thus becomes its 15th with a clear mission assignment. Daniel More, Shell's representative, when asked if the contract was the Raider usual (two years with a club option for three) put it somewhat differently.
"It's a lifetime deal," he said, adding the team will never let Art Shell — whom Davis fired in 1994 — get away again.
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:49 PM
Here are some quotes from former players on Art being hired...also some other things Art said after the press conference...
Quotes from former Raider personnel on the hiring of Art Shell as head coach
JOHN MADDEN
"I am happy for Art and am happy for the organization. He is the right choice.
He is the right guy. Any time one of your players does something, they're players but they're like family and like sons. When they can come back it's just a good feeling. Art was always one of my favorite guys. He was a player's player, a tough silent guy, a good leader. I was surprised that he wasn't still coaching. I mean (there was) his record here with the Raiders, then he was line coach for the Atlanta Falcons when they went to the Super Bowl. They had no right to be in the Super Bowl that year. I was thinking `Art is going to get another shot off of this,' then he didn't. Anyway, to make a long story short, I am just glad this happened."
Q: Why you think he never got a shot?
"I don't know. I've talked to people about him. I've always thought he'd be good, I've recommended him any time I could. I never heard a bad thing about him. No one said well the reason is ... I don't know what happened or why. No one has ever said anything to me.
"It (the hire) is a Raider type of thing. He's a Raider. he was drafted as a Raider ..."
(Raymond Chester joins Madden to congratulate him on his selection into the Hall of Fame)
Chester, to Madden: "I always said they should have put (Madden's wife) Virginia in the Hall of Fame first."
JIM OTTO
"I am very excited to have an old Raider back. All of us guys that are here today ... a number of his ex-teammates are here ... we're all excited that he is having another chance.
"This time it's going to be different ... and I think it will be definitely different for Art."
Q: How do you think he was overlooked for these last11 years?
"It's just the National Football League -- it looks like they are getting blackballed but they really are not. I am not a prophet and I don't know what they're looking at when they are looking for a coach but I have looked many many times for Art's name out there as being hired."
JACK TATUM
"I think it is great. Art will help bring some of the swagger back to the Raiders. it will be like old times."
Q: how frustrating has it been to watch the losses of recent years?
"Frustrating, definitely. But hopefully we will get it back now."
CHARLIE SMITH
"I think it is great he has come back. I think he feels there is some unfinished business he has here and I think he will do very well.
Q: Is he what this team needs?
"I think so. Art is a disciplinarian. He knows what it takes to get a good running game going. He knows what it takes to develop offensive linemen because he was one of the greatest ones."
Q: Maybe all he needs is for Gene Upshaw to come in and do the talking part.
"That would take all day."
GEORGE ATKINSON
"Art returning is a breath of life for the Raiders. Some of the things he talked about are definitely needed -- toughness, being able to play Raider football and having that mentality to go out and win. Everything revolves around that.
"He's a guy that understands this organization. he grew up in this organization and he's had a chance to go out and see other things happening so he has a broad perspective on the whole thing. You look at his philosophy, naturally it is the Raider philosophy because that's how he grew up."
RAYMOND CHESTER
"I am happy ... happy for the organization and the fans first and for Art also. certainly Art and I have a lot of history. I played against him in college. I've known him for a long time. But more important, he is just qualified. He is a winner. He has proven it. He has been a winner at every level of this game.
"The thing about Art is he has a real consistent personality and demeanor and he has always lived by example. I don't think you can ask for more."
Q: Are you surprised it took this long for him to get another gig?
"No. It's kind of a two edged sword. Once a guy has been a head coach, it's hard for (another) coach to bring him in as an assistant, ego wise. So it didn't surprise me in that regard. And a lot of it is I think there were some jobs Art didn't want. I respect him for that.
"I think this is the best possible move we could have made at this time. I think our fans will embrace him. We're back to square one."
Q: Do you think the league will let the Raiders play like the old Raiders?
"I disagree with everybody who says the Raiders played dirty."
Q: Not necessarily dirty but putting full frontal licks on people.
"The Raiders played smart, physical football. We were in condition, we didn't make mistakes, we managed the clock well, we controlled our emotions well and we didn't make 12-15 penalties a game. We didn't drop the ball in critical situations. We executed. I think Raider football is execution. it is a belief you can and will win and it's a never say die type attitude. And that's it. It has nothing to do with playing dirty or making a lot of penalties. That is not Raider football.
"I think one of the first things we've got to do is be disciplined and when I think of discipline I think of two things -- the first is don't make any mental mistakes and then limit the physical mistakes to a bare minimum. That's what it means. Mental mistakes are unacceptable. Everybody makes physical mistakes every now and then but you've got to limit it."
Q: Fair to say Art epitomized that as a player?
"As powerful and big as Art is, he was always known by guys who knew him best as a really finesse player. He was graceful. I played beside a lot of all pro tackles -- Art, Bob (Brown), George Kuhns, John Vella. Art had his own style.
It won."
cont'd...
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:50 PM
cont'd....
JIM PLUNKETT
"My biggest memory of Art was him yelling at me after I got thrown for a loss.
I stopped, got sacked. He said `you're supposed to go outside.' I said I couldn't (get there). He was yelling at me. He will tell you that. We were screaming at each other. I just respect the job he has done. I have seen him pass block, sacrifice his body to give me a few more seconds to throw the football. I know what he is like."
Q: Do you think this hire works?
"I hope it works. We are all looking for an answer. Mr. Davis is. Art is looking for an answer. I like art. I know he will do a good job. I don't think that is a question. And like he says, it depends on the players you have.
Personally I don't feel we are that far away from turning this team around ...
winning more games at the end rather than lose them."
Q: Do you think this team got a defeatist attitude recently, wondering when, not if, things would go bad? You get beat over the head so much, you start thinking the dark thought.
"Right. It's always the case when you lose a few games, you always say we will find a way to lose it instead of we will find a way to win it, which is the complete opposite of the team I am familiar with here with the Raiders. If we were down 12 points with 2 1/2 minutes to go, the game was ours. There was no question. These guys, I don't believe, felt that for a couple of reasons. One of them is it hadn't happened to them very often."
Q: And you have to experience it to believe it?
"Absolutely. And a lot of these guys came from programs where they didn't lose a lot. Losing is hard to accept. You tend to get down some. But I hope Art is the guy ... I don't believe we are that far away and we need a guy to bring it together."
ART SHELL
(following the formal press conference)
"When I left, organization was a big part of what I learned here. In Kansas City I learned a little bit more about organization, how to do things in the classroom, teaching, how to organize things so you can get things across to the players. Those things were big with me and I thought Marty
(Schottenheimer) did a good job with that. Then when I went to Atlanta, Dan
(Reeves) had coached for a number of years. I observed how those coaches handled their football teams -- that helped me evolve into a better coach.
Q: Are you going to be able to work up a good hate for the guy you used to work for (Schottenheimer)?
~"Look, when you walk across that white line you aren't friends anymore. It's just like players. You talk after the game."
Q: Are you more teacher or taskmaster; characterize your leadership style?
"I am just Art Shell. I am just a football coach that wants to see somebody be successful. And I want the players to be successful. I'd like to think I am a teacher. If you are a football coach you have to be a good teacher."
Q: Do you believe more in the carrot or the stick?
"I don't think you have to carry a stick. I think if you approach people and say OK, when you walk in the door, this is who I am, this is what is expected of you and this is what I expect you to do. Then you shouldn't have any problem.
"Those that can't toe the line and get involved with this then you don't need to be part of what we are trying to do. You have to buy in. But it's a two way street between a player and a coach. There is a trust there. I think that is the No. 1 thing .... you have to trust the players and the players have to trust the coaches."
Q: How many head coaching interviews have you had since leaving the Raiders?
"A few. Five or six of them. I talked to some people, going through the process. It was good, good to sit and talk about football."
Q: Does your diabetes limit you in any way, like with the hours you can work?
"No. I have had diabetes since 1994. It's under control. No problem at all.
And I have been working hard, travelling, all those things."
Q: You spoke of toughness, tough love. Can you expand on that?
"People have to understand what I think toughness is. it's not after the play is over, slapping you upside the head, shoving and pushing. That's not toughness. Toughness means if I am an offensive lineman, I am going to line up in front of you, I am going to hit you in your mouth, we are going to get 6-7 yards, I am going to go back to the huddle, I am going to look at you and smile and I am going to hit you in the mouth again. It's execution.
Toughness."
Q: Gene Upshaw says you motivated him.
"Let's just say we motivated each other. I felt good about him next to me. We were a good tandem. We had fun. In this game, you need to have fun playing this game and we had a lot of it. It was a big challenge for us, but you need to meet that challenge.
"Look, when you play this game, you are going to hurt. Players have to understand that. When you go through the toll of getting ready ... (it's) blood sweat and tears. You are going to have those things. You are going to feel pain, pain the day after a game. But when you win the championship and look back on the season, you will say it was well worth it."
Q: Do you know Randy Moss?
"No. I spoke to Randy last year and the day before I came down. Randy is a nice guy. I think he is a helluva kid."
Q: His swagger didn't manifest itself this year. What should his role be this year?
"Randy's role is going to evolve ... he is going to be successful in the system we have, as will everybody else. This is a game of matchups. We are going to try to try to create matchups. We have believed in that for years in this organization and he is going to be a big part of it."
Q: Don't take this the wrong way, but some people are going to say `this hire is a rerun' and ask why. Your thoughts?
"I don't worry about those types of things. You can't be concerned with what other people think. All I am concerned about is what I can do to help the Raiders win. I don't really understand, what that (rerun) means."
Q: That we've been there, done that.
"Well ... but I haven't finished. I started but I haven't finished. There is a lot to be had here. I wouldn't be here if I didn't believe I could help turn this organization back into the winning ways they have had in the past."
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 12:50 PM
I like this one...
"I want us to go out, punch a guy in the mouth, go back to the huddle, come back to the line of scrimmage, smile at the guy and then punch him in the mouth again."
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 02:59 PM
About Whisenhunt...
Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports when Pittsburgh Steelers offensive coordinator Ken Whisenhunt interviewed with the Oakland Raiders, he requested full control of the organization. The Raiders were not willing to meet his demands and decided to not offer him the head coach position.
RaiderIVlife
02-12-2006, 05:26 PM
Supposedly, Jackie Slater is going to be our offensive line coach....take it for what it is worth.
I wouldn't be opposed to that in the least. If Robert "plays like Jane" Gallery and Jake "why am I so highly touted" Grove can't make progress with people like Jakie Slater & Art Shell in the fold, they never will.
As you might suspect, I'm sick of the excuses that have been used to defend Robert Gallery. Put up or shut up time in 2006.
Angel
02-12-2006, 07:00 PM
Die, Al. Just die.
You'd think it was time!! :p
Angry Pope
02-12-2006, 07:47 PM
Big Art getting right to work...
Shell said he plans to speak to the Raiders' current group of assistant coaches Monday morning. Tom Walsh, an offensive assistant under Shell in Los Angeles, was in the building Saturday and could be in the mix. Irv Eatman will be hired as offensive line coach or assistant line coach.
system7
03-11-2010, 09:22 PM
Die, Al. Just die.
:pound:
raiderfreak7
03-11-2010, 10:02 PM
Hahahahaha.
Jack's sore libido
03-11-2010, 11:09 PM
Easily amused, I see.
And by something not at all humorous.
system7
03-12-2010, 12:03 AM
Easily amused, I see.
And by something not at all humorous.
i'm amused at the fact those comments were made more than FOUR years ago (before the Art shell debacle, before the lane kiffin mess etc), things back then were like rainbows and unicorns compared to how they are now.
Jack's sore libido
03-12-2010, 01:39 AM
i'm amused at the fact those comments were made more than FOUR years ago
If only you knew ...
Those comments were made four years ago, yes. And five years ago. And six years ago. And seven years ago. And eight years ago, and probably nine, 10, 11 and 12 years ago, too.
Madturk
03-12-2010, 07:59 AM
I almost had a coronary when I saw this thread
hawaiianboy
03-12-2010, 01:47 PM
If we switched out Cable with Shell, would anyone even notice?
TheMadStork
03-12-2010, 01:50 PM
If we switched out Cable with Shell, would anyone even notice?
I know that's a rhetorical question, but I've got one back: do you really think Shell would have gone to Al to bench Russell and start Grads? I'm not saying Cable is Belicheck or anything, but you're doing him a disservice comparing him to Shell. The B&B year was easily the worst coaching job in Raider history.
fade2black24
03-12-2010, 04:27 PM
I know that's a rhetorical question, but I've got one back: do you really think Shell would have gone to Al to bench Russell and start Grads? I'm not saying Cable is Belicheck or anything, but you're doing him a disservice comparing him to Shell. The B&B year was easily the worst coaching job in Raider history.
I agree. It was truely pathetic to watch. And it earned us the number 1 overall draft pick
....and you all know how that turned out
Madturk
03-12-2010, 05:02 PM
I agree. It was truely pathetic to watch. And it earned us the number 1 overall draft pick
....and you all know how that turned out
I hate Shell and Walsh even more:mad:
Diceq
03-13-2010, 04:07 PM
We still have not recovered from Shell part 2. Randy Moss led to Javon and then DHB...the 06 draft is basically a washout unless you count one decent season from Huff
And I don't for give Shell for banishing Marcus in Act one.
And I don't for give Shell for banishing Marcus in Act one.
You're kidding, right?
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